Is it wrong to be anti-Semitic?

[Syriusly]

.

Similarly, the Jews believe they are God's chosen people. [/QUOTE]

The Old Testament- which is part of the Christian Bible- says just that.

Why would any Christian disagree with Jews believing what God told them in the Old Testament?

"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."

 

[Syriusly]

What a load of bullshit.

The back-tracking is astonishing. All Jews, some Jews, non-Torah Jews, modern Jews, Tal -MUD-ic Jews, Zionist Jews, good Jews, Nazi Jews, chosen Jews, superior Jews, saved Jews, anti-humanity Jews, JC-killing Jews. Its like watching a pinball machine explode.

All done with the intention of labelling a group of Jews whom it is acceptable to hate. But still not capable of talking about ideologies which he finds problematic instead of the people.

No, they are a result of greed and the stupidity of the worlds ruling elite..

And these 'ruling elite' are- who exactly?

 

[citizenal]

When is "the beginning of the state of Israel"? why "begin" there-----recorded
history is a LOT longer and there are lots and lots of nations that had a "beginning"

Irosie91

"The beginning of the state of Israel" is 1947; the year it officially came into existence. The movement to establish the State of Israel, began around the turn of the previous century. To speak of any beginnings prior to 1900 is not realistic or worthy of attention.

to speak of your "knowledge" of history is not realistic or worthy of attention.
Are you aware of the fact that the MAJOR CITY of MODERN Israel---TEL AVIV
HAPPENED in 1910? -------and that the very important city (important because I have charter member relatives in that city "rishon l'tzion" was founded in
1882? Hebron------which, historically was the first capital of Israel/Judea----
was RE PURCHASED in the early 1800s. By Mid 1800s there was a Jewish
University and lots of Jewish hospitals------and an actual jewish government in
the land then CALLED "PALESTINE"------and the only people called
"Palestinians" ---for ---almost the entire 2000 years before 1947----were
JEWS? --------to claim that "Israel" the state -----"stated" at the beginning
of the 20th century is IDIOTIC

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

 

[citizenal]

The important issue I wanted your input on was whether or not the Jews have a religious claim to Palestine as they claim and so many non-Jews believe. From my perspective, this is an important aspect of this situation because it is used to justify Jews taking (stealing) Palestinian homes and land. Where do you stand on this issue?

I thought I was clear. Any religion's theology should have no bearing on politics. Its immaterial and irrelevant to our discussion because national self-determination must not be based on any culture's religious myths. Those myths do not carry the weight of law and they should not. (That is my personal opinion, not everyone agrees with me).

My position on the rest is that since the Jewish people ALSO had a valid claim to national territory in their historical homeland after the break up of the Ottoman Empire -- there was no theft. The territory belonged to the Jewish people, by right of their sovereign claim to re-constitute their National Homeland, granted and formed through the legal instruments and procedures of the time. The rights of the Jewish people are no different than the rights of the Jordanians (Arab Palestinians), Syrians, Iraqis and Lebanese -- all of whom gained sovereignty through the same process.

I am sorry but I totally disagree with you. The Jews had no right what-so-ever to claim Palestine as their own. The were an accepted minority group in Palestine prior to 1947 when the state of Israel was established. Upon its establishment, the Palestinians were made 2nd class citizens in the land of their forebears. This brought the Arab/Israeli conflicts which led to our present wrongful war on terror. See my above response to Irose91 for further validation of these truths.

 

[citizenal]

What a load of bullshit.

The back-tracking is astonishing. All Jews, some Jews, non-Torah Jews, modern Jews, Tal -MUD-ic Jews, Zionist Jews, good Jews, Nazi Jews, chosen Jews, superior Jews, saved Jews, anti-humanity Jews, JC-killing Jews. Its like watching a pinball machine explode.

All done with the intention of labelling a group of Jews whom it is acceptable to hate. But still not capable of talking about ideologies which he finds problematic instead of the people.

No, they are a result of greed and the stupidity of the worlds ruling elite..

And these 'ruling elite' are- who exactly?

Syriusly:

I will no long respond to anything you write. You are here to confound, confuse, and accuse not to discuss and examine issues. Therefore, I will have nothing more to do with you.

 

[Shusha]

The Jews had no right what-so-ever to claim (part of)* Palestine as their own....

Why not?



*my edit

 

[Syriusly]

What a load of bullshit.

The back-tracking is astonishing. All Jews, some Jews, non-Torah Jews, modern Jews, Tal -MUD-ic Jews, Zionist Jews, good Jews, Nazi Jews, chosen Jews, superior Jews, saved Jews, anti-humanity Jews, JC-killing Jews. Its like watching a pinball machine explode.

All done with the intention of labelling a group of Jews whom it is acceptable to hate. But still not capable of talking about ideologies which he finds problematic instead of the people.

No, they are a result of greed and the stupidity of the worlds ruling elite..

And these 'ruling elite' are- who exactly?

Syriusly:

I will no long respond to anything you write. You are here to confound, confuse, and accuse not to discuss and examine issues. Therefore, I will have nothing more to do with you.

No problem- I will just point out that you are nothing more than another anti-semite, spouting anti-jew crap.

 

[citizenal]

The Jews had no right what-so-ever to claim (part of) Palestine as their own....

Why not?

Because they were a minority within the area and most of the land was owned by the Palestinians. What if the Jews in America, suddenly dissolved the government of the United States and declared that a new Jewish government based on Talmudic law would now rule America. Furthermore, non-Jews, that is Wasps, Catholics, Hispanics, blacks, and Muslims, would now and forever more be second class citizens in the nation of their birth and have to surrender their homes to Jews whenever deemed necessary.

This is why not!

I guess you subscribe to the notion that might makes right. I do not and this another reason why not!

 

[Shusha]

Because they were a minority within the area and most of the land was owned by the Palestinians.

I guess you subscribe to the notion that might makes right.

So minority groups don't have rights? Sounds to me like you are the one subscribing to the "might is right" way of doing things. If there are two groups in a given territory and they both seek self-determination -- you are saying that only ONE group has rights and the other has no rights. And the group that has the rights is the one who has more members.

Besides, by that test, the Palestinians, being the minority, no longer have rights to self-determination.

And most of the land was not privately owned by Palestinians (not the least of which because there was no such nationality). And private ownership of land does not confer sovereignty of land anyway.

 

[irosie91]

When is "the beginning of the state of Israel"? why "begin" there-----recorded
history is a LOT longer and there are lots and lots of nations that had a "beginning"

Irosie91

"The beginning of the state of Israel" is 1947; the year it officially came into existence. The movement to establish the State of Israel, began around the turn of the previous century. To speak of any beginnings prior to 1900 is not realistic or worthy of attention.

to speak of your "knowledge" of history is not realistic or worthy of attention.
Are you aware of the fact that the MAJOR CITY of MODERN Israel---TEL AVIV
HAPPENED in 1910? -------and that the very important city (important because I have charter member relatives in that city "rishon l'tzion" was founded in
1882? Hebron------which, historically was the first capital of Israel/Judea----
was RE PURCHASED in the early 1800s. By Mid 1800s there was a Jewish
University and lots of Jewish hospitals------and an actual jewish government in
the land then CALLED "PALESTINE"------and the only people called
"Palestinians" ---for ---almost the entire 2000 years before 1947----were
JEWS? --------to claim that "Israel" the state -----"stated" at the beginning
of the 20th century is IDIOTIC

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side--------your statement is as true as suggesting that the
nations of the Americas lived happily side by side for 2000 years before
Cortez killed Montezuma----or an even better one----CORTEZ BROUGHT PEACE
AND BROTHERHOOD

 

[Syriusly]

Irosie91

"The beginning of the state of Israel" is 1947; the year it officially came into existence. The movement to establish the State of Israel, began around the turn of the previous century. To speak of any beginnings prior to 1900 is not realistic or worthy of attention.

to speak of your "knowledge" of history is not realistic or worthy of attention.
Are you aware of the fact that the MAJOR CITY of MODERN Israel---TEL AVIV
HAPPENED in 1910? -------and that the very important city (important because I have charter member relatives in that city "rishon l'tzion" was founded in
1882? Hebron------which, historically was the first capital of Israel/Judea----
was RE PURCHASED in the early 1800s. By Mid 1800s there was a Jewish
University and lots of Jewish hospitals------and an actual jewish government in
the land then CALLED "PALESTINE"------and the only people called
"Palestinians" ---for ---almost the entire 2000 years before 1947----were
JEWS? --------to claim that "Israel" the state -----"stated" at the beginning
of the 20th century is IDIOTIC

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

 

[Syriusly]

Because they were a minority within the area and most of the land was owned by the Palestinians.

I guess you subscribe to the notion that might makes right.

So minority groups don't have rights? Sounds to me like you are the one subscribing to the "might is right" way of doing things. If there are two groups in a given territory and they both seek self-determination -- you are saying that only ONE group has rights and the other has no rights. And the group that has the rights is the one who has more members.

Besides, by that test, the Palestinians, being the minority, no longer have rights to self-determination.

And most of the land was not privately owned by Palestinians (not the least of which because there was no such nationality). And private ownership of land does not confer sovereignty of land anyway.

One of the real irritants I have with the Israeli Palestinian issue is that there is more of an effort by both sides to be right than to find a peaceful resolution.

The reality is that both Palestinians and Jews live in what is now Israel and Palestine. Neither is going away. Claiming that either Jews or Palestinians had no right originally to be there really doesn't matter NOW- because the Israeli's and Palestinians who are there- are there.

A resolution needs to be found so both groups can co-exist in the very small area that exists there.

The ongoing conflict over the issue just keeps the embers of violence going througout the Middle East.

 

[citizenal]

Because they were a minority within the area and most of the land was owned by the Palestinians.

I guess you subscribe to the notion that might makes right.

So minority groups don't have rights? Sounds to me like you are the one subscribing to the "might is right" way of doing things. If there are two groups in a given territory and they both seek self-determination -- you are saying that only ONE group has rights and the other has no rights. And the group that has the rights is the one who has more members.

Besides, by that test, the Palestinians, being the minority, no longer have rights to self-determination.

And most of the land was not privately owned by Palestinians (not the least of which because there was no such nationality). And private ownership of land does not confer sovereignty of land anyway.

Shusha:

I have not said any of the things you claim. All I am saying is that the Jews got almost everything and the Palestinians lost almost everything. How you can turn this around escapes me turn it into a discussion of rights escapes me. I suppose young and intelligent Arab men an women who blow themselves up in crowded places are doing this as a way of demonstrating how fair and even handed the Israelis have treated the Palestinians.

"My goodness, dead men do bleed"!

 

[citizenal]

[/QUOTE] your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side--------your statement is as true as suggesting that the
nations of the Americas lived happily side by side for 2000 years before
Cortez killed Montezuma----or an even better one----CORTEZ BROUGHT PEACE
AND BROTHERHOOD[/QUOTE]

Irosie 91:

Now now! I thought we agreed to play nice!

I am truly at a loss to comprehend what you just said. I guess you believe we will not have world peace until one of two things happen; all the Jews are dead or all the Arabs are dead.

 

[irosie91]

to speak of your "knowledge" of history is not realistic or worthy of attention.
Are you aware of the fact that the MAJOR CITY of MODERN Israel---TEL AVIV
HAPPENED in 1910? -------and that the very important city (important because I have charter member relatives in that city "rishon l'tzion" was founded in
1882? Hebron------which, historically was the first capital of Israel/Judea----
was RE PURCHASED in the early 1800s. By Mid 1800s there was a Jewish
University and lots of Jewish hospitals------and an actual jewish government in
the land then CALLED "PALESTINE"------and the only people called
"Palestinians" ---for ---almost the entire 2000 years before 1947----were
JEWS? --------to claim that "Israel" the state -----"stated" at the beginning
of the 20th century is IDIOTIC

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

how many jews have you known who are from communities of jews who have lived in muslim societies? How much of the writings WRITTEN during those periods of times-----written by jews have you read? ------from where do you get your information-----USA high school textbooks? wiki? the local
mosque? are you a muslim yourself? How are the jews of MEDINA doing------Medina was a jewish city for more than 1000 years before muhummad was born. ---
I should mention that my husband was born in a country which was inhabited and at times dominated by jews for more
than 2500 years. -------but it was invaded by arab muslims----his people had virtually UNIVERSAL male literacy for all those years. He is a source. His relatives who could REMEMBER were sources ----------you are very confused

 

[Indeependent]

to speak of your "knowledge" of history is not realistic or worthy of attention.
Are you aware of the fact that the MAJOR CITY of MODERN Israel---TEL AVIV
HAPPENED in 1910? -------and that the very important city (important because I have charter member relatives in that city "rishon l'tzion" was founded in
1882? Hebron------which, historically was the first capital of Israel/Judea----
was RE PURCHASED in the early 1800s. By Mid 1800s there was a Jewish
University and lots of Jewish hospitals------and an actual jewish government in
the land then CALLED "PALESTINE"------and the only people called
"Palestinians" ---for ---almost the entire 2000 years before 1947----were
JEWS? --------to claim that "Israel" the state -----"stated" at the beginning
of the 20th century is IDIOTIC

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

Jews did NOT live happily along side the Muslims; Jews were forced to pay a non-Muslim tax and smiled because the tax prevented them from being beheaded.

 

[irosie91]

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

Jews did NOT live happily along side the Muslims; Jews were forced to pay a non-Muslim tax and smiled because the tax prevented them from being beheaded.

be not surprised-----I grew up in what had been a vey rural area------and was transformed to a bit of a SUBURBAN area mostly in the mid 20th century. The core population was ----UTTERLY WASPISH-----with some irish and scots and persons of german ancestry --------LONG TIME USA residents------even prerevolutionary war. ------------they were just as naïve as is
SYRIUSLY------and swallowed the islamo propaganda WHOLE. I read that propaganda long before I knew what the word "arab" meant. Thus I remember it as well as I learned "hey diddle diddle diddle----and cat and the fiddle---the cow jumped over the moon....." Syriusly is just parroting what he imagines he knows

 

[citizenal]

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

how many jews have you known who are from communities of jews who have lived in muslim societies? How much of the writings WRITTEN during those periods of times-----written by jews have you read? ------from where do you get your information-----USA high school textbooks? wiki? the local
mosque? are you a muslim yourself? How are the jews of MEDINA doing------Medina was a jewish city for more than 1000 years before muhummad was born. ---
I should mention that my husband was born in a country which was inhabited and at times dominated by jews for more
than 2500 years. -------but it was invaded by arab muslims----his people had virtually UNIVERSAL male literacy for all those years. He is a source. His relatives who could REMEMBER were sources ----------you are very confused

I do not think I am confused at all. What I think is that no one has a viable response for what I have offered so the best defense is a good offense whereby you claim your opponent does not know what he is talking about. I thought we were going to have a good discussion here like America and Israel murdering American sailors on the USS Liberty so the United State could nuke Cairo and the entire staff of the American embassy. And what about the 50 million people slaughtered in the World Wars, so Israel could exist and 8.2 million Jews can live in a dessert they stole from the Arabs. Now those are event worth talking about, but you guys don't bring it up as a topic because you know it true. Its much better to talk about how the Jews really lived in Palestine for 2,000 years and all the Palestinians did was shine their shows. Now that's great stuff you can really sink your teeth into.

You know something. I am just wasting my time here. The most exciting thing that happens is and idiot calls me one so he can think he is intelligent when he is anything but..

 

[citizenal]

I stand by my statements, which are true irrespective of what you have said. Can you back up your statements with proof and references.

I thought it was understood that we would refrain from disparagement in this discussion. Calling someone's statement idiotic is disparagement because it implies that the one making the statement is an idiot. Please govern yourself accordingly in the future.

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

Jews did NOT live happily along side the Muslims; Jews were forced to pay a non-Muslim tax and smiled because the tax prevented them from being beheaded.

Well Golly gee, now I know what a head tax is for. After sex, my girlfriend always insisted I give her a head tax. I thought it was for something else, but now I know it was so I could keep my head. Darn, to think I have been overpaying. Did you guys ever find out how to get a Jewish girl to stop giving head? Marry her!

 

[Indeependent]

I referred to your statement that the HISTORY OF ISRAEL "BEGINS" at the beginning of the 20th century because IT IS idiotic-------and I cited a few reasons.
My statements can be EASILY VERIFIED ON A SIMPLE COMPUTER SEARCH---
I will not humor you by hunting up links to commonly known FACTS. Another source for the "beginning of Israel"-----is old travel periodicals and even
medical journals. --------it is an INTERESTING HISTORY for anyone interested
in public health and tropical medicine--------probably of no interest to you.

Irosie91:

I researched the statements you offered and found them to be true for the most part however, for you to conclude that this is clear evidence that the Israeli state started well before the beginning of the 20th century is wrong. I never said that Jews were not a part of Palestine throughout the course of history. They certainly were, and the Jews and Palestinians lived side by side, in peace, for centuries as you so ably pointed out. It wasn’t until the formal establishment of Israel in 1947, which made the Palestinians 2nd class citizens in the land of their forefathers that the trouble began. This act by the Jews, shattered the centuries of peace the Palestinians enjoyed with the Jews and led to our present war on terror.

Proof of this is that as indicated by the following, is that a the start of the 20th century, Zionists and the rest of the world were not even sure about the new homeland for the Jews would be located. If it was such a slam dunk as you imply, then why was there a need for search at all. The truth is that the activities you enumerated was not sufficient to give Jews any claim or right to Palestine. Your after the fact posturing in this regard is just plain wrong.

Proposals for a Jewish state

After a wave of pogroms in Russia, Joseph Chamberlain offered Theodor Herzl the establishment of a Jewish state in Uganda, East Africa.[16] In 1903 Herzl presented the British Uganda Programm at the Sixth Zionist Congress in Basel.[17]

In the late 1930s, the British Zionist League considered a number of other places where a Jewish homeland could be established. The Kimberley region in Australia was considered until the Curtin government (in office 1941–45) rejected the possibility.[18]

With the support of the then Premier of Tasmania, Robert Cosgrove (in office from 1939), Critchley Parker proposed a Jewish settlement at Port Davey, in south west Tasmania.[19] Parker surveyed the area, but his death in 1942 put an end to the idea.

The Jewish Autonomous Oblast, set up in the Russian Far East in 1934, represented a Soviet approach to providing a Jewish homeland.

The above statements can be verified at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_for_the_Jewish_people#Other_possibilities

your post is bullshit-------there was no time in history that jews and muslims lived
HAPPILY side by side

Actually Jews and Muslims lived peacefully side by side in most places for most of the history of Islam. And there have been both Jews and Muslims in what is now called Israel since virtually the founding of Islam.

While it is true that both Christianity and Islam tended to treat Jews as second class citizens, and impose additional restrictions and burdens on them, for the most part- except for when political leaders were used Jews for their own political purposes and tacitly or implicitly instigated violence- most of the time they coexisted peacefully.

Jews did NOT live happily along side the Muslims; Jews were forced to pay a non-Muslim tax and smiled because the tax prevented them from being beheaded.

Well Golly gee, now I know what a head tax is for. After sex, my girlfriend always insisted I give her a head tax. I thought it was for something else, but now I know it was so I could keep my head. Darn, to think I have been overpaying. Did you guys ever find out how to get a Jewish girl to stop giving head? Marry her!

My girlfriends always paid me.