Islam forbids

[PixieStix]

So in other words, you can kill in the name of Allah, but it has to be a mullah sanctioned hit? Or is fatwa against the koran?

Islamic scripture and Mohammeds examples and the Sunnah are what the Muslims strive to adhere to

At this point there is no "Khalifa" or Caliph for the whole of the Muslim nation/ummah

Many claimed OBL, may have been he.

The Caliphate has to be established before the Islamic community/nation, AKA the ummah is united against the whole of the Infidel Nation AKA non believers of Islam

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Regardless of what meaning you choose to ascribe to adh-dhulm, the Qur'an gives Muslims the following commandment:

And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden except for a just cause. And whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir authority -- but let him not exceed the limit in slaying. Surely he will be helped. - 17:33​

What is "unjust"?

O you who believe, be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice; and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably. Be just; that is nearer to observance of duty. And keep your duty to Allah. Surely Allah is Aware of what you do. - 5:8​

Failure to act equitably. Therefore it can be concluded (again) that the slaying of innocents is forbidden.

'Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik

Page 602
09.6
“it is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the caliph’s permission,” but “if there is no caliph, no permission is required.”

Islamic scripture proves disbelief is an act of aggression . a hostile act.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

Question:
What is the fiqh of commanding the good and forbidding the wrong in Islam?


Answer:

COMMANDING THE RIGHT AND FORBIDDING THE WRONG

From the Reliance of the Traveller (Book Q)

[The Reliance of the Traveller is a book every English-speaking Muslim should have, even if they are not Shafi`i, because it contains much that is necessary for every morally responsible person to know…]

q0.0 INTRODUCTION

q0.1 (n: The discussion and analysis that follow are Imam Ghazali's, edited by the Hanbali scholar Ibn Qudama Maqdisi from an earlier abridgement of Ghazali's Ihya' `ulum al-din by `Abd al-Rahman ibn Jawzi, which Maqdisi shortened to a single volume whose conciseness, if less vivid than the Ihya', better lends itself to the purpose of the present section, which is to discuss the practical implications of an important aspect of Scared Law.)

q0.2 (Ibn Qudama Maqdisi One should know that commanding the right and forbidding the wrong is the most important fundamental of the religion, and is the mission that Allah sent the prophets to fulfill. If it were folded up and put away, religion itself would vanish, dissolution appear, and whole lands come to ruin.

Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

They will not answer that clear direct question. For good reason.

The fact that you have repeatedly asked it is evidence that they know they cannot offer any meaningful and honest answer to it.

That question has been answered several times over by both Kalam and myself.

It's not our fault if you Liability, Mr. Fitnuts, or his idiot friend Fatality, are unable to understand the answer.

It has been answered ,just not tot he required standard.
The standard is unequivocally.

 

[Ceasaro]

So in other words, you can kill in the name of Allah, but it has to be a mullah sanctioned hit? Or is fatwa against the koran?

Presently, no religious leader or body of leaders can speak for every Muslim. Jihad is permitted in response to hostilities initiated by one's enemies, but must be carried out in a manner that is consistent with the Qur'anic notion of justice.

So it's islamic justice to put a fatwa out on Rushdie over a book? Or to kill the dutch guy over a movie?
So kalam, are you on the side of jihad against infidels?

 

[nia588]

You know people have to ask themselves a question. there are more than a billion Muslims in the world. If Muslims were so violent don't you think there would be much more killings? I'm mean really.

That they have eradicated the enemy at home does not mean they do not wish to continue killing elsewhere.There are few places on earth muslims are not killing to institute sharia law.

I'm going to explain Jihad in a more simple matter. Jihad was ordered on the Muslims during the prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) time because the Meccans were trying to kill the them because they chose to give up idol worship and worship Allah alone. so jihad was ordered so that they could defend themselves. So they were ordered to fight to defend themselves.

Noble Qur’an 2:190 Footnote: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”


The passage itself can be found in two places. (It is on page 54( in my Quran) of the Noble Qur’an
translation by Muhammad Khan and distributed by “King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur’an—The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques. It is a footnote to Qur’an 2.190 and is designed to explain Jihad according to Allah as this is the first time the word is used.

Jihad is only suppose to happen if Muslims are not allowed to practice their faith and are oppressed if they do. Since there is no country in the world that currently forbids Muslims from worship there is NO NEED FOR JIHAD WITH A SWORD NOWADAYS.

there are different types of Jihad. Jihad doesn't just mean fighting a non-Muslim. one of the most important Jihads that every Muslim has to do is fighting the evil within one's self. So for example if you are a drug addict. your Jihad becomes fighting that urge to use drugs.

The hadith is false

A Fabricated Hadeeth - Greater & Lesser Jihad - Ummah.com - Muslim Forum

Any Muslim that claims a Jihad nowadays is ignorant of Islam and following a deviated version of Islam.

'Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik

Page 602
09.6
“it is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the caliph’s permission,” but “if there is no caliph, no permission is required.”

Islamic scripture proves disbelief is an act of aggression a hostile act.

lol you getting sources from ummah.com. although ummah.com has some beneficial discussions and article. however some of the articles posted on there are not accurate some of it is based on pure opinion. some of them are nothing more than armchair jihadis.

secondly the verses you posted have to be put in context. you just can't follow the verses so literally.

like I said Jihad (fighting) is for when Muslims are being oppressed and they are not allowed to follow their religion (like being jailed or killed if they follow Islam). no one is denying Jihad is a part of Islam. But what I am saying is that no situation in today's world forbids Muslims and prosecutes for following in Islam. therefore there is no jihad nowadays.

 

[SW2SILVER]

Allah is an asshole. I know it's true, a I know a leprechaun that heard it directly from the Easter bunny. Theological gossip, I suppose. But At least I am not flying a plane into the heart of Mecca during Ramadan to prove that I'm an intolerant asshole. A neilistic self hating mass murdering prick in the name of some bullshit crap nobody can prove is real. I am not a Muslim, in other words.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

lol you getting sources from ummah.com. although ummah.com has some beneficial discussions and article. however some of the articles posted on there are not accurate some of it is based on pure opinion. some of them are nothing more than armchair jihadis.

secondly the verses you posted have to be put in context. you just can't follow the verses so literally.

like I said Jihad (fighting) is for when Muslims are being oppressed and they are not allowed to follow their religion (like being jailed or killed if they follow Islam). no one is denying Jihad is a part of Islam. But what I am saying is that no situation in today's world forbids Muslims and prosecutes for following in Islam. therefore there is no jihad nowadays.

I have to ask you if you are a member of the Submittetrs?

I quoted ummah as they had the sources that refute the greater jihad lesser jihad confabulation

You should not be so critical of pure opinion, it is the totality of what you post.

The Quran is not met to be read literally ?

Quran is mubeen i.e. which makes things clear and manifest

"A. L. R. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear (qur-anin mubeenin). " [15:1]

"We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear: (qur-anun mubeenun)" [36:69]

Quran is noor-e-mubeen i.e. a light which makes things clear and manifest

" O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest (nooran mubeenan)" [4:174]

Is the Quran plain, clear, manifest and perspicous?
To the best of my knowledge the only non literal movement is in reference to qiyas and the attributes of allah

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/littlk.htm

 

[SW2SILVER]

Allah is an cosmic sphincter. And Islam is his feces. How about a bunch of suicidal suppositories, in the name of GOD, shoved up your arse? That's what America got on 9/11. I mean to offend. Islam is worse than fascism. NAZISM had more respect for life than Islam has. That speaks for itself.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

like I said Jihad (fighting) is for when Muslims are being oppressed and they are not allowed to follow their religion (like being jailed or killed if they follow Islam). no one is denying Jihad is a part of Islam. But what I am saying is that no situation in today's world forbids Muslims and prosecutes for following in Islam. therefore there is no jihad nowadays.

More unattributed opinion from you.

Jihads purpose it bring the world under Islams laws.
Islam Question and Answer - Judging by that which Allaah has revealed
Islam Question and Answer - Should he turn to the human rights organizations to get his rights?
Islam Question and Answer - The kufr of one who rules according to other than what Allaah revealed

Allaah has commanded us to refer matters to His judgement and to establish Sharee‘ah, and He has forbidden us to rule with anything else, as is clear from a number of aayaat in the Qur’aan, such as the aayaat in Soorat al-Maa’idah (5) which discuss ruling according to what Allaah has revealed, and mention the following topics:

The command to rule according to what Allaah has revealed: “And so judge between them by what Allaah has revealed . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against ruling by other than what Allaah has revealed: “. . . and follow not their vain desires . . .” [aayah 49]

Warning against compromising on any detail of Sharee‘ah, no matter how small: “. . . but beware of them lest they turn you far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you . . .” [aayah 49]

Forbidding seeking the ruling of jaahiliyyah, as is expressed in the rhetorical question “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance?” [aayah 50]

The statement that nobody is better than Allaah to judge: “. . . and who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [aayah 50]

The statement that whoever does not judge according to what Allaah revealed is a kaafir, a zaalim (oppressor or wrongdoer) and a faasiq (sinner), as Allaah says: “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.” [aayah 44]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by that which Allaah has revealed, such are the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers)” [aayah 45]; “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed (then) such (people) are the faasiqoon (rebellious or disobedient).” [aayah 47].

The statement that it is obligatory for the Muslims to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, even if those who seek their judgement are not Muslim, as Allaah says: “. . . And if you judge, judge with justice between them. . .” [aayah 42]

 

[SW2SILVER]

Get over it, there is no "Allah" Islam is no better than Christianity, Judaism or paganism, for that matter. Except, not to many of them of them think it's acceptable to commit suicide or crash plane loads of non-dingalings in the name of the great cosmic dingaling himself. Muslims? They do. No need to explain, Islam is shit. Muslim are the flies. Allah is lord of the flies.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Get over it, there is no "Allah" Islam is no better than Christianity, Judaism or paganism, for that matter. Except, not to many of them of them think it's acceptable to commit suicide or crash plane loads of non-dingalings in the name of the great cosmic dingaling himself. Muslims? They do. No need to explain, Islam is shit. Muslim are the flies. Allah is lord of the flies.

Please feel free to start your own thread, if this on does not suit you.

 

[SW2SILVER]

"Please feel free". I like that, boyo. What does Allah say about free will? Kill it, Cut' it's freakin head off? I have no clue, AND I don't care what you think, jerkwad. You believe whatever you want. Islam caused 9/11 and I think it's payback time. I am a no theist, either.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Please feel free". I like that, boyo. What does Allah say about free will? Kill it, Cut' it's freakin head off? I have no clue, AND I don't care what you think, jerkwad. You believe whatever you want. Islam caused 9/11 and I think it's payback time. I am a no theist, either.

Before we can play cowboys and muslims people in the west need to know how and why Islam is a problem thats what this thread is about , lets not derail it with unnecessary side tracking, alright?.

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for someone to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that non muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

 

[SW2SILVER]

This isn't a game. I am no cowboy. Lets set cliches aside. Religion is appalling. Really truly. God can't be proven either way, which is something none of you theist can prove .They used to hang witches. But, that pales to Muslims crashing airplanes into buildings. Comment?

 

[Kalam]

Regardless of what meaning you choose to ascribe to adh-dhulm, the Qur'an gives Muslims the following commandment:

And kill not the soul which Allah has forbidden except for a just cause. And whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir authority -- but let him not exceed the limit in slaying. Surely he will be helped. - 17:33​

What is "unjust"?

O you who believe, be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice; and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably. Be just; that is nearer to observance of duty. And keep your duty to Allah. Surely Allah is Aware of what you do. - 5:8​

Failure to act equitably. Therefore it can be concluded (again) that the slaying of innocents is forbidden.

'Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik

Page 602
09.6
“it is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the caliph’s permission,” but “if there is no caliph, no permission is required.”

Islamic scripture proves disbelief is an act of aggression . a hostile act.

I post Qur'anic scripture and you attempt to counter it with quotes from a book on Shafi'i jurisprudence? Sorry, sparky, that's not gonna fly.

 

[Kalam]

So it's islamic justice to put a fatwa out on Rushdie over a book? Or to kill the dutch guy over a movie?

No. Unless they're actively oppressing Muslims, acts of violence against them are unjustifiable. The proper response to that type of thing is explained here:

And when thou seest those who talk nonsense about Our messages, withdraw from them until they enter into some other discourse. And if the devil cause thee to forget, then sit not after recollection with the unjust people. - 6:68​

So kalam, are you on the side of jihad against infidels?

I'm on the side of jihad against any oppressor, including the so-called Islamic government of Sudan.

 

[Kalam]

The Quran is not met to be read literally ?

He it is Who has revealed the Book to thee; some of its verses are decisive -- they are the basis of the Book -- and others are allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. And none knows its interpretation save Allah, and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord. And none mind except men of understanding. - 3:7​

 

[Kalam]

Get over it, there is no "Allah" Islam is no better than Christianity, Judaism or paganism, for that matter. Except, not to many of them of them think it's acceptable to commit suicide or crash plane loads of non-dingalings in the name of the great cosmic dingaling himself. Muslims? They do. No need to explain, Islam is shit. Muslim are the flies. Allah is lord of the flies.

Fitnah isn't a Muslim, twit. Start your own thread.

 

[Kalam]

So in other words, you can kill in the name of Allah, but it has to be a mullah sanctioned hit? Or is fatwa against the koran?

Islamic scripture and Mohammeds examples and the Sunnah are what the Muslims strive to adhere to

At this point there is no "Khalifa" or Caliph for the whole of the Muslim nation/ummah

Many claimed OBL, may have been he.

The Caliphate has to be established before the Islamic community/nation, AKA the ummah is united against the whole of the Infidel Nation AKA non believers of Islam

There is no mention of a "caliphate" in the Qur'an. No single leader is or has ever been fit to lead the entire Muslim community with the exception of Muhammad himself.