Mormon Church finally admits Joseph Smith had 40 wives

[Blackrook]

And it was all conveniently changed when a prophet decided it wasn't true any more.

A prophet receives divine knowledge directly from God. God commanded it stop and that blacks be admitted to the Priesthood. Pretty simple concept really.

I cannot read your mind, so I do not know if you really believe this.

You even called him a prophet, do you know what a prophet is?

I know what a prophet is. I do not believe the leaders of your church are really prophets.

And I and the rest of the faithful Mormons DO believe it. So your claiming otherwise has no meaning to us.

But that's my point, not ALL Mormons believe the prophets are really prophets.

The prophets themselves KNOW that the prophets of the Mormon Church are not really prophets. The question is, how far down the chain of command does this knowledge go?

Do the bishops know?

Do the ward leaders know?

Do the prophets' office staff know?

Do the prophets' cleaning staff know?

Who is the highest member of the Mormon church who believes the prophets are really prophets?

Do you see now why the Mormon church has to operate with so much secrecy?

The biggest secret of all is that the Mormon Church is not guided by real prophets.

It was a very big mistake to set things up this way. All it takes is one prophet to admit the truth, and the entire Mormon church will collapse like a house of cards.

 

[Carla_Danger]

THE FACTS are he is no prophet. He was wrong many times. Look it up for yourself.

My God is better than your God.....I just love a good Christian pissing contest.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Nope. Not true, according to the essays released today.

Also, one of them was 14 years old, which would put him in the category of a child abuser, at best. Also, many were married to other men, as well, which makes him a bigamist.

But, the real fault was not so much with Smith. It was his followers that made him a god.

You understand that in the 1800's that men and women were married as young as 14 all the time right?

Are you saying that just because in the 1800's adult men married young female children that makes it right?

In the early 1800's women were 14 and got married regularly. They were not considered children.

I think you are missing the point: 1800 AD was not 1800 BC. Joseph Smith was assembling a concubine under the guise of spiritual guidance. If "plural marriage" was a commandment then, how can it be a sin now? If modern day elders can do away with the proscription against black "priests" and other absurdities, why can't they convene a "Council of Nicaea" and reorganize/edit the Book of Mormon as an addition to the Bible?

God so ordered it. The reason and the order are in the History of the Church. You claim to know so much learn it.

Maybe old Joe just wanted a religion that allowed him to screw a lot of women...

 

[ninja007]

THE FACTS are he is no prophet. He was wrong many times. Look it up for yourself.

My God is better than your God.....I just love a good Christian pissing contest.

thing is there is only One God.

 

[Vandalshandle]

A prophet receives divine knowledge directly from God. God commanded it stop and that blacks be admitted to the Priesthood. Pretty simple concept really.

I cannot read your mind, so I do not know if you really believe this.

You even called him a prophet, do you know what a prophet is?

I know what a prophet is. I do not believe the leaders of your church are really prophets.

And I and the rest of the faithful Mormons DO believe it. So your claiming otherwise has no meaning to us.

But that's my point, not ALL Mormons believe the prophets are really prophets.

The prophets themselves KNOW that the prophets of the Mormon Church are not really prophets. The question is, how far down the chain of command does this knowledge go?

Do the bishops know?

Do the ward leaders know?

Do the prophets' office staff know?

Do the prophets' cleaning staff know?

Who is the highest member of the Mormon church who believes the prophets are really prophets?

Do you see now why the Mormon church has to operate with so much secrecy?

The biggest secret of all is that the Mormon Church is not guided by real prophets.

It was a very big mistake to set things up this way. All it takes is one prophet to admit the truth, and the entire Mormon church will collapse like a house of cards.

I agree with this completely. I lived in Las Vegas, which is politically controlled by Mormons, and I worked closely with many of them. I was struck by how reluctant they are to discuss any of the controversial beliefs that are outlined in the book of Mormon. In fact, I was struck by how reluctant they were to even MENTION the Book of Mormon. It was treated sort of like the elephant in the living room that nobody noticed.

 

[Judicial review]

You understand that in the 1800's that men and women were married as young as 14 all the time right?

Are you saying that just because in the 1800's adult men married young female children that makes it right?

In the early 1800's women were 14 and got married regularly. They were not considered children.

I think you are missing the point: 1800 AD was not 1800 BC. Joseph Smith was assembling a concubine under the guise of spiritual guidance. If "plural marriage" was a commandment then, how can it be a sin now? If modern day elders can do away with the proscription against black "priests" and other absurdities, why can't they convene a "Council of Nicaea" and reorganize/edit the Book of Mormon as an addition to the Bible?

God so ordered it. The reason and the order are in the History of the Church. You claim to know so much learn it.

Maybe old Joe just wanted a religion that allowed him to screw a lot of women...

you dont need a religion to do that...

 

[ninja007]

there are not any more prophets after the new testament.

 

[ninja007]

Are There Prophets Today?

Ephesians 4 August 28, 2014 BQ071012

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And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, (4:11)



After his parenthetical analogy (vv. 9–10) from Psalm 68:18, Paul continues his explanation of spiritual gifts. Christ not only gives gifts to individual believers but to the total Body. To each believer He gives special gifts of divine enablement, and to the church overall He gives specially gifted men as leaders (see v. 8, “He gave gifts to men”)—as apostles … prophets … evangelists, and … pastors and teachers.



He gave emphasizes the sovereign choice and authority given to Christ because of His perfect fulfillment of the Father’s will. Not only apostles and prophets but also evangelists … pastors and teachers are divinely called and placed.



Apostles and Prophets

In 1 Corinthians 12:28, Paul says, “God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers.” That statement adds weight not only to the idea of divine calling but also to the chronological significance (“first, … second, … third”) in the giving of these gifted men to the church.



The first two classes of gifted men, apostles and prophets, were given three basic responsibilities:

(1) to lay the foundation of the church (Eph. 2:20); (2) to receive and declare the revelation of God’s Word (Acts 11:28; 21:10–11; Eph. 3:5); and (3) to give confirmation of that Word through “signs and wonders and miracles” (2 Cor. 12:12; cf. Acts 8:6–7; Heb. 2:3–4).

The first of the gifted men in the New Testament church were the apostles, of whom Jesus Christ Himself is foremost (Heb. 3:1). The basic meaning of apostle (apostolos) is simply that of one sent on a mission. In its primary and most technical sense apostle is used in the New Testament only of the twelve, including Matthias, who replaced Judas (Acts 1:26), and of Paul, who was uniquely set apart as apostle to the Gentiles (Gal. 1:15–17; cf. 1 Cor. 15:7–9; 2 Cor. 11:5). The qualifications for that apostleship were having been chosen directly by Christ and having witnessed the resurrected Christ (Mark 3:13; Acts 1:22–24). Paul was the last to meet those qualifications (Rom. 1:1; etc.). It is not possible therefore, as some claim, for there to be apostles in the church today. Some have observed that the apostles were like delegates to a constitutional convention. When the convention is over, the position ceases. When the New Testament was completed, the office of apostle ceased.

The term apostle is used in a more general sense of other men in the early church, such as Barnabas (Acts 14:4), Silas and Timothy (1 Thess. 2:6), and a few other outstanding leaders (Rom. 16:7; 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). The false apostles spoken of in 2 Cor. 11:13 no doubt counterfeited this class of apostleship, since the others were limited to thirteen and were well known. The true apostles in the second group were called “messengers (apostoloi) of the churches” (2 Cor. 8:23), whereas the thirteen were apostles of Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:1; 1 Pet. 1:1; etc.).

Apostles in both groups were authenticated “by signs and wonders and miracles” (2 Cor. 12:12), but neither group was self–perpetuating. In neither sense is the term apostle used in the book of Acts after 16:4. Nor is there any New Testament record of an apostle in either group being replaced when he died.

… Prophets were also appointed by God as specially gifted men, and differ from those believers who have the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 12:10). Not all such believers could be called prophets. It seems that the office of prophet was exclusively for work within a local congregation, whereas that of apostleship was a much broader ministry, not confined to any area, as implied in the word apostolos (“one who is sent on a mission”). Paul, for example, is referred to as a prophet when he ministered locally in the Antioch church (Acts 13:1), but elsewhere is always called an apostle.

The prophets sometimes spoke revelation from God (Acts 11:21–28) and sometimes simply expounded revelation already given (as implied in Acts 13:1, where they are connected with teachers). They always spoke for God but did not always give a newly revealed message from God. The prophets were second to the apostles, and their message was to be judged by that of the apostles (1 Cor. 14:37). Another distinction between the two offices may have been that the apostolic message was more general and doctrinal, whereas that of the prophets was more personal and practical.

Like the apostles, however, their office ceased with the completion of the New Testament, just as the Old Testament prophets disappeared when that testament was completed, some 400 years before Christ. The church was established “upon the foundation of the apostles anti prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). Once the foundation was laid, the work of the apostles and prophets was finished. (First Corinthians, The MacArthur New Testament Commentary [Chicago: Moody, 1984], pp. 322–24)

 

[ninja007]

Are There Prophets Today

 

[Blackrook]

I do not see my opposition to Mormonism as a Christian pissing contest. The Mormon Church is not a Christian church. They are a non-Christian polytheistic religion that has not even the slightest adherence to standard Christian beliefs.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Are you saying that just because in the 1800's adult men married young female children that makes it right?

In the early 1800's women were 14 and got married regularly. They were not considered children.

I think you are missing the point: 1800 AD was not 1800 BC. Joseph Smith was assembling a concubine under the guise of spiritual guidance. If "plural marriage" was a commandment then, how can it be a sin now? If modern day elders can do away with the proscription against black "priests" and other absurdities, why can't they convene a "Council of Nicaea" and reorganize/edit the Book of Mormon as an addition to the Bible?

God so ordered it. The reason and the order are in the History of the Church. You claim to know so much learn it.

Maybe old Joe just wanted a religion that allowed him to screw a lot of women...

you dont need a religion to do that...

Sometimes it's fun to have your own club, or in this case "cult."

 

[Rikurzhen]

I wonder how many other similarities Islam and Mormonism share. . .

In fact all most all his other wives never had sex with him.

Who? Smith or Mohammad?

And according to whom? Official dogma?

Mark Twain:

Our stay in Salt Lake City amounted to only two days, and therefore we had no time to make the customary inquisition into the workings of polygamy and get up the usual statistics and deductions preparatory to calling the attention of the nation at large once more to the matter.

I had the will to do it. With the gushing self-sufficiency of youth I was feverish to plunge in headlong and achieve a great reform here--until I saw the Mormon women. Then I was touched. My heart was wiser than my head. It warmed toward these poor, ungainly and pathetically "homely" creatures, and as I turned to hide the generous moisture in my eyes, I said, "No--the man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian charity which entitles him to the kindly applause of mankind, not their harsh censure--and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered in his presence and worship in silence."​

 

[Rikurzhen]

I wonder how many other similarities Islam and Mormonism share. . .

In fact all most all his other wives never had sex with him.

Nope. Not true, according to the essays released today.

Also, one of them was 14 years old, which would put him in the category of a child abuser, at best. Also, many were married to other men, as well, which makes him a bigamist.

But, the real fault was not so much with Smith. It was his followers that made him a god.

You understand that in the 1800's that men and women were married as young as 14 all the time right?

Are you saying that just because in the 1800's adult men married young female children that makes it right?

I'll say it. You want to have a debate?

 

[Blackrook]

The Mormon Church is a house of cards and all it would take would be a stiff breeze to knock it down.

I live in Las Vegas, so I have met many Mormons, mostly attorneys.

These men live the perfect Mormon life: a beautiful wife, beautiful four or five children, tithing, church events.

But I think about the fact that these men are attorneys, and they are trained to evaluate evidence critically and determine the truth.

How many of these men have done the analysis, and determined that the Mormon faith is a complete lie?

And yet, they keep up the pretense that they believe.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I respect no religion, but people who choose to be Mormon are especially unfit for politics.

Then you liberals have a big problem because you're less fit than Mormons.

 

[Rikurzhen]

My theory is that most of the leaders of the Mormon Church know it's all a lie and keep up pretences to avoid collapsing the church. I can't imagine anyone who has done any in-depth research on Mormonism could really believe in it, once they have all the facts.

Like Christianity is so easy to believe? Give it a rest.

 

[Blackrook]

Like I said, I worked in a Mormon firm. One of the first things they told me was I wasn't allowed to take any of the secretaries out to lunch, because people might assume the wrong thing.

I got along very well with the secretaries at that firm, and most of them were not Mormon themselves. Mormon women usually don't have jobs. They get married at a very early age and start having children.

One day, one of the secretaries told me I was the only attorney in the firm who treated the secretaries like human beings.

I thought, what is it about these Mormons that make them unpleasant to work for?

But they were unpleasant to me as well. None of them would let me inside their world. This was the only firm I ever worked at where I was never invited to lunch (except once on my birthday), and no one would allow me to be their friend.

The Mormons had their own world, and non-Mormons are excluded.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

there are not any more prophets after the new testament.

The Restoration of the true church restores the prophets as stated in the new testament. wanna try again?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Like I said, I worked in a Mormon firm. One of the first things they told me was I wasn't allowed to take any of the secretaries out to lunch, because people might assume the wrong thing.

I got along very well with the secretaries at that firm, and most of them were not Mormon themselves. Mormon women usually don't have jobs. They get married at a very early age and start having children.

One day, one of the secretaries told me I was the only attorney in the firm who treated the secretaries like human beings.

I thought, what is it about these Mormons that make them unpleasant to work for?

But they were unpleasant to me as well. None of them would let me inside their world. This was the only firm I ever worked at where I was never invited to lunch (except once on my birthday), and no one would allow me to be their friend.

The Mormons had their own world, and non-Mormons are excluded.

Taking everything you wrote at face value. So what?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Like I said, I worked in a Mormon firm. One of the first things they told me was I wasn't allowed to take any of the secretaries out to lunch, because people might assume the wrong thing.

I got along very well with the secretaries at that firm, and most of them were not Mormon themselves. Mormon women usually don't have jobs. They get married at a very early age and start having children.

One day, one of the secretaries told me I was the only attorney in the firm who treated the secretaries like human beings.

I thought, what is it about these Mormons that make them unpleasant to work for?

But they were unpleasant to me as well. None of them would let me inside their world. This was the only firm I ever worked at where I was never invited to lunch (except once on my birthday), and no one would allow me to be their friend.

The Mormons had their own world, and non-Mormons are excluded.

This was my experience, also. It was also made clear to me, in a subtle way, that my career path above middle management would simply not happen, since I was not a Mormon. I am absolutely convinced that Harry Reid became a Mormon out of necessity.