Obama: "We're responsible for each other". Really? Since when?

[Shogun]

Can you cite scripture as to where you believe that this is how ole jebus would have thought? I'd LOVE to see where he suggests anything about taxes and personal wealth as an important implication to his message.

I don't have to. You already cited it.

indeed, you clearly missed his point then.

 

[Cecilie1200]

WWJD?

.

I feel quite certain that, whatever Jesus did, HE would do it personally, rather than pawning it off on the government to handle for Him.

For God so loved the world.... He did not send a committee.

You're very, very sure it wasn't, "For God so instructed the government to love the world . . ."? Or possibly, "For God so instructed the President to love the world . . ."? I just want to be clear on this.

 

[Shogun]

I feel quite certain that, whatever Jesus did, HE would do it personally, rather than pawning it off on the government to handle for Him.

Kinda like how he demanded his audience do for themselves instead of, you know, COLLECTING fishes and loaves and sharing among the crowd...



still laughing.

Can you understand the difference between me throwing a party and hiring a caterer for my guests, and me taking on responsibility for providing food for my guests their entire lifetimes, or is that too complicated for you?

Can you cite scripture where jebus makes such a clarification about charity?



I DARE you.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you REALLY think that Jesus would disapprove of using tax money to help the poor then you are 100% lost as to what His message truly is. (And it's obvious since you refer to Him in the past tense as if He is dead. He is the true, living God.).

Of course, I'm betting that you're just yanking my chain since no sane Christian would truly believe what you're writing.

.

No. I understand it quite clearly. It's you I don't think understands what His message was.

He wants us to step up and mourn with those who mourn, comfort those in need of comfort, lift the poor and downtrodden by the gifts the Lord has blessed us with. With our own money. Our own time. Our own skills and talents.

And no, I don't think He approves of robbing others to enslave others to politicans. I don't think He approves of the corruption inherent with such robbery. I don't think He wants us to use force. He wants us to use persuasion, long suffering, meekness, kindness, charity, faith, etc to help others. Not violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about empowering the individual. Not empowering the government. It's about people freely choosing good, not being forced to. It's about recognizing what we recieve as a gift from God, not as something we are entitled to in Pride.

No, Robbery has never been part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ no matter how they pretend their cause is noble.

The scriptures really are true. Those who seek power through Robbery are our greatest threat.

 

[Avatar4321]

Can you cite scripture as to where you believe that this is how ole jebus would have thought? I'd LOVE to see where he suggests anything about taxes and personal wealth as an important implication to his message.

I don't have to. You already cited it.

indeed, you clearly missed his point then.

No you have. He has shown us how to provide charity. He is our Exemplar. He didn't demand Ceasar feed the 5000. He fed them.

If you cared about the poor, you'd be serving them, not trying to force others to.

 

[Avatar4321]

Kinda like how he demanded his audience do for themselves instead of, you know, COLLECTING fishes and loaves and sharing among the crowd...



still laughing.

Can you understand the difference between me throwing a party and hiring a caterer for my guests, and me taking on responsibility for providing food for my guests their entire lifetimes, or is that too complicated for you?

Can you cite scripture where jebus makes such a clarification about charity?



I DARE you.

Again, you already did. I am amazed how you can't see this.

 

[Avatar4321]

Would Jesus condone a thief giving his money to the poor? The thief stole from others he found undeserving of their possessions to help those he found deserving.

HWJJ? (How Would Jesus Judge?)

Considering He told us "Thou shalt not steal', I'm confident what His view point on the matter was.

 

[Big Fitz]

I feel quite certain that, whatever Jesus did, HE would do it personally, rather than pawning it off on the government to handle for Him.

For God so loved the world.... He did not send a committee.

You're very, very sure it wasn't, "For God so instructed the government to love the world . . ."? Or possibly, "For God so instructed the President to love the world . . ."? I just want to be clear on this.

ROFLMAO!

That was awesome.

 

[Shogun]

I feel quite certain that, whatever Jesus did, HE would do it personally, rather than pawning it off on the government to handle for Him.

Kinda like how he demanded his audience do for themselves instead of, you know, COLLECTING fishes and loaves and sharing among the crowd...



still laughing.

Obviously you are laughing since you don't understand what He did. He ministered to the people Himself. He is our Examplar. He didn't demand that Ceasar feed the people, He fed them Himself. He did what He could to lift them.

Which is exactly what we are talking about.

When will people start realizing it's their responsibility to act for themselves and not make laws for others to act in their place.

Actually, he had disciples to help spread the word as well as administer his message to the masses. Jebus wasn't running around by himself. Have you even read the bible?

And, he didn't demand anything of ceasar because, as I quoted, ceasar (and your personal wealth) is not the kind of thing jebus concerned himself with. If you ACTUALLY followed the word you would stop crying about the collection of fishes and loaves since, apparently, some socialist wants to spread it among the people who didn't think to bring food for themselves. THIS is why, in the scripture I quoted, he tells you specifically that your concern about paying taxes is neither here nor there to the matter of his promised salvation.

but hey... You won't be the first silly bastard trying to squeeze the word of god through your silly ass opinion.

Gal 6:2
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Apparently, you are not your brother's keeper.

ho hum.

 

[Avatar4321]

You still can't tell the difference between using force and volunteering. It's quite sad. When you have to steal money from others, you aren't being charitable. You aren't giving anything of yourself. You can give everything your neighbor has, but it doesn't benefit you at all, because you have given what wasn't yours to give.

We are supposed to give ourselves to God. We are supposed to minister to the poor. Lift the needy. We are supposed to comfort those who mourn. We, as individuals are suppposed to do it.

Not matter how much you empower politicians to pretend to do it, you aren't fulfilling your responsibilities.

Oh, and that's not socialism. The difference between socialism and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that those who give because of the Gospel do so without any force. They voluntarily give their times, talents, and money. Socialism, like make things inspired by the adversary, is a cheap imitation to the Plan of Happiness.

 

[Trajan]

Obama: "We're responsible for each other". Really? Since when?

since progressive gov. has told us so and then taxed us so they could do the caring for us....

 

[Big Fitz]

Gal 6:2
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Now this is a willful misinterpretation of the meaning of what is written for political points. Let's look at the verse in context of the entire chapter, mmkay? You've committed the same sin you just complained about.

The given verse is bolded. But look at some other verses used to give context to the whole statement. The kickers are in red.

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Gal 6:3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

Gal 6:4 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else,

Gal 6:5 for each one should carry his own load.

Gal 6:6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Gal 6:8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature [fn] will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Gal 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Gal 6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Gal 6:11 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

Gal 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.

Gal 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.

Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which [fn] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Gal 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

Gal 6:17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.

Gal 6:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.

Taken from Blue Letter Bible - Home Page

Well what do you know about that? Three admonishments that we bear the responsibility for our own acts. We are ENCOURAGED to help each other carry our burden, but are RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN BURDENS! Also, you can plainly see that there is no hint given that this is a collective encouragement, but an individual encouragement. To each person, not group, not government.

We are not responsible for the lives of anyone other than ourselves. Christ commands us to follow Him and not worry about how He will deal with the lives of others.

Have you ever considered that God is a practitioner of tough love, and when you enable someone to escape the tough love they have gotten themselves in, you further exacerbate the problem God is trying to save them from? The Bible is full of examples on how He used tough love on His Chosen People.

If you give a five spot to an alcoholic on the street for food, how are you helping them when you know damn well they'll be buying a drink with it? Are you better off just assuming your taxes are going to alcoholism treatment agencies and that man can get help there and end your guilt from seeing a trainwreck of a human being? If the conviction is put on your heart to help someone, God put it there for YOU as an individual to help them as you best can. Not for you to call your state representative to increase funding for drug abuse treatment facilities. One life, one conviction, your choice, their choice.

Don't abdicate your responsibility if your heart is convicted.

 

[Avatar4321]

Don't abdicate your responsibility if your heart is convicted.

I hope all people regardless of politics take this to heart.

But I would add, don't abdicate your responsibility even if your heart isnt convicted. But seek the convinction and to carry your burden.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'd have amended that to say "Carry your OWN burden". Some people need the clarification. Otherwise...

 

[bucs90]

And the saga continues................Obama says Republicans want to force the poor and those who "don't have a lobbyist in Washington" to fend for themselves (Btw, when have we ever had an option of support ourselves or let others do it?).

Um...Mr. President......YOU are the lobbyist for the lazy, the chronic unemployed, and everyone else in the 50% who don't pay taxes. YOU Mr. President, the most powerful man in the world, are their lobbyist. Thats why they love you. They think you're gonna take from me to give to them.

 

[jgarden]

That was the quote that stood out the most. That somehow I am responsible for John Doe or anyone else for me. Yet, I'm then told I cannot be judgemental about another person's lifestyle. Well, if I'M gonna be held responsible for that person, then I better damn well be allowed to make judgement on them. For example...........

But wait. HOW can we control all those people's behaviors? Obviously, to share responsibility, we must pass judgement and correct it. But how can we engage in this liberal utopian shared responsibility, while also having the freedom to be Shaquita, Bubba, Pedro, fat, gay, etc, etc, etc????? You can't be held responsible for each other while at the same time enjoying the freedom to succeed or be a fuck up.

Well, we can't. Thats why left wing ideology in full bloom always turns into a regime like Cuba, USSR, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Russia, and others. Because you need an overwhelming, central force to control the behaviors of the masses in order to fairly hold them all responsible for each other.

Welcome to tyranny folks.

Fortunately, those who faced death/injury on Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and the Normandy Beaches didn't share "bucs90's" views.

Many of them sacrificed all their "personal freedoms" for the benefit of every American - including "Shaquita, Bubba, Pedro, fat, gay, etc, etc, etc."

 

[bucs90]

That was the quote that stood out the most. That somehow I am responsible for John Doe or anyone else for me. Yet, I'm then told I cannot be judgemental about another person's lifestyle. Well, if I'M gonna be held responsible for that person, then I better damn well be allowed to make judgement on them. For example...........

But wait. HOW can we control all those people's behaviors? Obviously, to share responsibility, we must pass judgement and correct it. But how can we engage in this liberal utopian shared responsibility, while also having the freedom to be Shaquita, Bubba, Pedro, fat, gay, etc, etc, etc????? You can't be held responsible for each other while at the same time enjoying the freedom to succeed or be a fuck up.

Well, we can't. Thats why left wing ideology in full bloom always turns into a regime like Cuba, USSR, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Burma, Russia, and others. Because you need an overwhelming, central force to control the behaviors of the masses in order to fairly hold them all responsible for each other.

Welcome to tyranny folks.

Fortunately, those who faced death/injury on Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal and the Normandy Beaches didn't share "bucs90's" views.

Many of them sacrificed all their "personal freedoms" for the benefit of every American - including "Shaquita, Bubba, Pedro, fat, gay, etc, etc, etc."

Wow. So now you are equating the defeat of Japan and Nazi Germany..............with paying for the needs of : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&feature=related]YouTube - Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!![/ame]

Why am I not suprised.

 

[bucs90]

Yeah. I suppose paying her gas and mortgage are morally equal to defeating Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany, right?

 

[DaGoose]

So there we have it. The issue is settled.

Jesus is TOTALLY AGAINST any kind of government assistance for the poor and needy. He hates them as much as the GOP. He would be in favor of cutting off SS, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, subsidized housing, Head Start, Aid To Families with Dependant Children, etc. Oh...never mind the fact that we can't back any of that up in His living Word. That's just a mere inconvenience. We just happen to "know it".

Now....if we can get all of these loving, hard nosed Christians to step up to the plate and start REALLY contributing to charities. You know, the ones who could not possibly carry the load and was the driving force for the need and creation of welfare? Of course, we really should cut them and their children off and toss them into the street and simply trust in God that they will be ok.

Now that's what REAL Christians would do!!

.

 

[Shogun]

If you REALLY think that Jesus would disapprove of using tax money to help the poor then you are 100% lost as to what His message truly is. (And it's obvious since you refer to Him in the past tense as if He is dead. He is the true, living God.).

Of course, I'm betting that you're just yanking my chain since no sane Christian would truly believe what you're writing.

.

No. I understand it quite clearly. It's you I don't think understands what His message was.

He wants us to step up and mourn with those who mourn, comfort those in need of comfort, lift the poor and downtrodden by the gifts the Lord has blessed us with. With our own money. Our own time. Our own skills and talents.

And no, I don't think He approves of robbing others to enslave others to politicans. I don't think He approves of the corruption inherent with such robbery. I don't think He wants us to use force. He wants us to use persuasion, long suffering, meekness, kindness, charity, faith, etc to help others. Not violence.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about empowering the individual. Not empowering the government. It's about people freely choosing good, not being forced to. It's about recognizing what we recieve as a gift from God, not as something we are entitled to in Pride.

No, Robbery has never been part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ no matter how they pretend their cause is noble.

The scriptures really are true. Those who seek power through Robbery are our greatest threat.

Only a pharisee christian would call being taxed for the sake of alleviating poverty as ROBBERY.



remember, fool:


Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.



yea, it really sounds like jebus cared about your tax rate!