Official USMB Mafia Game #2: Enter the Godfather

But you know what bones? When they (scum) convince enough people to vote me out, it'll give you and the rest of the townies more to work with. :) If it isn't clear to some who at least 2 of the scum are by then, there's not much more anyone can say to convince them of it.

If I recall correctly, you made a post fairly early on that is pretty solid evidence you are town (it may have been someone else like wofsister, but I am thinking it was you). I will have to go back to find it.

The post was something along the lines that lead me to believe that you assumed mafia had already spoken with each other and had a plan, assuming at this point that it was your statement. traditionally, mafia usually do not have what is referred to as "Daytalk" in games. The role PM's posted indicate that they are to communicate at night, which tells me this is a traditional set up. Some games will begin with a Night 0 instead of a Day 1 once people confirm. This game does not appear to have done that, ergo, mafia unlikely communicated with each other outside this open thread before Night 1 even though they knew who each other are from get go.


Whoever said that, again I think it was you, pretty obviously is town in my book because I made the same false assumption about scum in my first game. I'll try to go back this weekend and sort out who it was.
 
Ok, I'll give a read list if it'll help:

RosieS-my main suspect, it started when she made a claim early on the first day without really asking for consensus from town-this can only really help scum early, when I asked her she said she wanted to be saved-seems like only looking out for yourself which isn't town, when questioned by anyone she got aggressive instead of defensive, for example-I was a stoopid noob and if I didn't take my attention off of her she was going to go after me-seems overly aggressive for town. Then Day 2 she gets a lot of votes and basically says screw you guys, you are too stupid, I'm not helping you-town can go ahead and burn for all I care unless of course you come up with a plan but I'm not going to help you because I'm too good for town-OK, I embellished but that's what I got from it so my vote has stayed on her from where it was Day 1. She should still help town win if she's town. Avatar voter.

mebelle-willing to switch to mebelle due to her behavior at the end of Day 1. First she says she's not going to hammer, then hammers without consensus, then tries to take it back and I would think she would know she can't do that since we talked about it a lot, minimal playing or contributing, trying to fly under the radar-suspicious. Avatar voter.

dblack-mostly town on Day 1 due to some interesting posts but he did jump really fast on the Rosie bandwagon as soon as sameech voted for him and laid out a case against him after saying he wanted to be careful and he also switched his mind a lot on going with your gut-inconsistencies don't bother me as much as so rapidly changing your mind seems a little too confusing-slightly suspicious-would vote for him but not over mebelle or Rosie-Avatar voter.

Mertex-siding with RD on the Avi vote and pushing so hard for him with not very good reasons and using the last game too much to make the decision to vote him out, fairly aggressive towards anyone not going along with either Rosie or Avi at the end, accused those of defending Avi as being brainwashed-slightly suspicious but not enough to consider for a vote at this time. Avatar voter.

RD-same as Mertex but less aggressive then Mertex, both against Rosie, they seem to be working as a team, however she is more town to me than Mertex but still bears watching and slightly suspicious. Avatar voter.

Grandman-mostly town but I need to hear more, Avatar voter.

Luissa-mostly town, need more info.Avatar voter.

Ropey/Sameech-Ropey's changing around at the end of Day 1 bugged me a lot, sameesh seems to be playing like a townie so I'm going with town here for now.

mani-townie for me, his post are very thorough and helpful and though provoking-he's more town than he was from Day 1 for me

Shaitra-my strongest town read, playing like a townie for sure, all her posts are good information, good reads, making us all think, giving us ideas-she's got to be town.

Bones and ACSY-seem to be a team but they are both looking like townies to me and no reason to suspect them at this point.
 
But you know what bones? When they (scum) convince enough people to vote me out, it'll give you and the rest of the townies more to work with. :) If it isn't clear to some who at least 2 of the scum are by then, there's not much more anyone can say to convince them of it.

If I recall correctly, you made a post fairly early on that is pretty solid evidence you are town (it may have been someone else like wofsister, but I am thinking it was you). I will have to go back to find it.

The post was something along the lines that lead me to believe that you assumed mafia had already spoken with each other and had a plan, assuming at this point that it was your statement. traditionally, mafia usually do not have what is referred to as "Daytalk" in games. The role PM's posted indicate that they are to communicate at night, which tells me this is a traditional set up. Some games will begin with a Night 0 instead of a Day 1 once people confirm. This game does not appear to have done that, ergo, mafia unlikely communicated with each other outside this open thread before Night 1 even though they knew who each other are from get go.


Whoever said that, again I think it was you, pretty obviously is town in my book because I made the same false assumption about scum in my first game. I'll try to go back this weekend and sort out who it was.

I don't remember how that conversation went down either but I do remember Wake clarifying for us that scum actually can talk before the game which was a surprise and definitely changed things on Day 1 with them being able to scheme before the game some.
 
Ok, I'll give a read list if it'll help:

RosieS-my main suspect, it started when she made a claim early on the first day without really asking for consensus from town-this can only really help scum early, when I asked her she said she wanted to be saved-seems like only looking out for yourself which isn't town, when questioned by anyone she got aggressive instead of defensive, for example-I was a stoopid noob and if I didn't take my attention off of her she was going to go after me-seems overly aggressive for town. Then Day 2 she gets a lot of votes and basically says screw you guys, you are too stupid, I'm not helping you-town can go ahead and burn for all I care unless of course you come up with a plan but I'm not going to help you because I'm too good for town-OK, I embellished but that's what I got from it so my vote has stayed on her from where it was Day 1. She should still help town win if she's town. Avatar voter.......

This kind of behavior can sometimes be a ploy by a Vanilla Townie to draw the night kill from scum to protect a power role. In my opinion, sacrificing oneself to protect a PR, is sometimes the best move a VT can make be that by drawing a lynch in a close game, creating noise for scum to sort through, or just flat out false claiming knowing you likely will be targets. Even though you are making it, it is still psychological hard to purposefully get yourself killed in a game because it is against the nature of gamesmanship as most of us have practiced it during our lives.

I am not saying that I have a strong read on Rosie as not being scum, but this is why town really needs to settle down a few days before trying to rush into a quick lynch. The same instinct that almost got Rosie lynched on Day 1 is the same instinct that caused the mislynch. You might want to re-examine things to be certain before rushing to judgment when we have a player so close to getting hammered.
 
But you know what bones? When they (scum) convince enough people to vote me out, it'll give you and the rest of the townies more to work with. :) If it isn't clear to some who at least 2 of the scum are by then, there's not much more anyone can say to convince them of it.

If I recall correctly, you made a post fairly early on that is pretty solid evidence you are town (it may have been someone else like wofsister, but I am thinking it was you). I will have to go back to find it.

The post was something along the lines that lead me to believe that you assumed mafia had already spoken with each other and had a plan, assuming at this point that it was your statement. traditionally, mafia usually do not have what is referred to as "Daytalk" in games. The role PM's posted indicate that they are to communicate at night, which tells me this is a traditional set up. Some games will begin with a Night 0 instead of a Day 1 once people confirm. This game does not appear to have done that, ergo, mafia unlikely communicated with each other outside this open thread before Night 1 even though they knew who each other are from get go.


Whoever said that, again I think it was you, pretty obviously is town in my book because I made the same false assumption about scum in my first game. I'll try to go back this weekend and sort out who it was.

I don't remember how that conversation went down either but I do remember Wake clarifying for us that scum actually can talk before the game which was a surprise and definitely changed things on Day 1 with them being able to scheme before the game some.

Thanks. That is odd. I will definitely have to go back and take a closer look at that because whoever made that post pretty much cleared themselves for good in my eyes. This is why it is good to talk things out.
 
But you know what bones? When they (scum) convince enough people to vote me out, it'll give you and the rest of the townies more to work with. :) If it isn't clear to some who at least 2 of the scum are by then, there's not much more anyone can say to convince them of it.

If I recall correctly, you made a post fairly early on that is pretty solid evidence you are town (it may have been someone else like wofsister, but I am thinking it was you). I will have to go back to find it.

The post was something along the lines that lead me to believe that you assumed mafia had already spoken with each other and had a plan, assuming at this point that it was your statement. traditionally, mafia usually do not have what is referred to as "Daytalk" in games. The role PM's posted indicate that they are to communicate at night, which tells me this is a traditional set up. Some games will begin with a Night 0 instead of a Day 1 once people confirm. This game does not appear to have done that, ergo, mafia unlikely communicated with each other outside this open thread before Night 1 even though they knew who each other are from get go.


Whoever said that, again I think it was you, pretty obviously is town in my book because I made the same false assumption about scum in my first game. I'll try to go back this weekend and sort out who it was.

I don't remember how that conversation went down either but I do remember Wake clarifying for us that scum actually can talk before the game which was a surprise and definitely changed things on Day 1 with them being able to scheme before the game some.

Yes, I had posted a couple of links from the first game that showed scum were able to talk to each other before the game. One was a direct link to the post that had the second link I posted which showed the offsite log of the scum posts.
 
If I recall correctly, you made a post fairly early on that is pretty solid evidence you are town (it may have been someone else like wofsister, but I am thinking it was you). I will have to go back to find it.

The post was something along the lines that lead me to believe that you assumed mafia had already spoken with each other and had a plan, assuming at this point that it was your statement. traditionally, mafia usually do not have what is referred to as "Daytalk" in games. The role PM's posted indicate that they are to communicate at night, which tells me this is a traditional set up. Some games will begin with a Night 0 instead of a Day 1 once people confirm. This game does not appear to have done that, ergo, mafia unlikely communicated with each other outside this open thread before Night 1 even though they knew who each other are from get go.


Whoever said that, again I think it was you, pretty obviously is town in my book because I made the same false assumption about scum in my first game. I'll try to go back this weekend and sort out who it was.

I don't remember how that conversation went down either but I do remember Wake clarifying for us that scum actually can talk before the game which was a surprise and definitely changed things on Day 1 with them being able to scheme before the game some.

Yes, I had posted a couple of links from the first game that showed scum were able to talk to each other before the game. One was a direct link to the post that had the second link I posted which showed the offsite log of the scum posts.

Yep, now I remember. You are the one who brought this to our attention by showing us those links. Definitely a pro town move.
 
Reads list:

Mertex – FOS - reasons are stated a few posts above

R.D. – FOS - just something about the way the posts are coming off - some come off as being townie, but there are others that don't. will keep an eye on.

Grandma – hasn't posted much, but gives a townie vibe so far

RosieS – FOS - reasons already stated

Luissa – doesn't appear to be too interested in the game. That could be intentional, as scum would probably try to fly under the radar. Need more info.

dblack – need more info. had contradictions in a couple of posts.

Sameech – has come across as townie and has taken time to read the thread and weigh in. hasn't posted anything that comes across as suspicious.

MeBelle60 – somewhat suspicious with her vote, then asking if she could change it even though it was the last vote needed. will have to keep an eye on her.
 
Ok, I'll give a read list if it'll help:

RosieS-my main suspect, it started when she made a claim early on the first day without really asking for consensus from town-this can only really help scum early, when I asked her she said she wanted to be saved-seems like only looking out for yourself which isn't town, when questioned by anyone she got aggressive instead of defensive, for example-I was a stoopid noob and if I didn't take my attention off of her she was going to go after me-seems overly aggressive for town. Then Day 2 she gets a lot of votes and basically says screw you guys, you are too stupid, I'm not helping you-town can go ahead and burn for all I care unless of course you come up with a plan but I'm not going to help you because I'm too good for town-OK, I embellished but that's what I got from it so my vote has stayed on her from where it was Day 1. She should still help town win if she's town. Avatar voter.......

This kind of behavior can sometimes be a ploy by a Vanilla Townie to draw the night kill from scum to protect a power role. In my opinion, sacrificing oneself to protect a PR, is sometimes the best move a VT can make be that by drawing a lynch in a close game, creating noise for scum to sort through, or just flat out false claiming knowing you likely will be targets. Even though you are making it, it is still psychological hard to purposefully get yourself killed in a game because it is against the nature of gamesmanship as most of us have practiced it during our lives.

I am not saying that I have a strong read on Rosie as not being scum, but this is why town really needs to settle down a few days before trying to rush into a quick lynch. The same instinct that almost got Rosie lynched on Day 1 is the same instinct that caused the mislynch. You might want to re-examine things to be certain before rushing to judgment when we have a player so close to getting hammered.

I will go back and look but I'm pretty sure she said she was trying to save herself. If I'm wrong about this I will take my vote off her.

The in your face, I'm not helping playstyle stinks though.

If I'm wrong about Rosie and for the wrong reasons, I'm going to be in the same boat as those I bitched out for voting Avi for the wrong reasons.

This is why it is good to have an experienced player in the game pointing these things out. She's two away from a hammer. I'll reconsider.
 
Yep, now I remember. You are the one who brought this to our attention by showing us those links. Definitely a pro town move.

Now you'll accused of being one of my accomplices/goons/etc. :badgrin:

It seems anyone that is pro-town gets accused by a few of being scum. Odd that! I don't see how so many people can be scum when there's only 3 in the game. :lol:
 
One other thing that stands out to me from the first day is MeBelle coming in as the hammer vote, apparently without looking to see she was the hammer vote.

This bothered me too. How many times did we say the next vote was the hammer and she didn't even realize what she did.

Again, so?

I made a mistake.

I thought I could do something I wasn't able to...and was waiting for clarification.

I became impatient,

Sue me!
 
Reads list:

Mertex – FOS - reasons are stated a few posts above

R.D. – FOS - just something about the way the posts are coming off - some come off as being townie, but there are others that don't. will keep an eye on.

Grandma – hasn't posted much, but gives a townie vibe so far

RosieS – FOS - reasons already stated

Luissa – doesn't appear to be too interested in the game. That could be intentional, as scum would probably try to fly under the radar. Need more info.

dblack – need more info. had contradictions in a couple of posts.

Sameech – has come across as townie and has taken time to read the thread and weigh in. hasn't posted anything that comes across as suspicious.

MeBelle60 – somewhat suspicious with her vote, then asking if she could change it even though it was the last vote needed. will have to keep an eye on her.

:lol:
 
I have a headache. I've tried re-re-re-and re-reading the first day and now I got nothin'.

It stands to reason that at least 1 if not 2 mafia voted for Avatar. It also stands to reason that one held back, voting for someone else.

Until the game stagnated.

That's when MeBelle dropped the hammer on Avi, then tried to switch her vote to Rosie when it was too late. Scummy.

Ropey (now Sameech) was next to last to vote for Avi. Ropey wasn't exactly helpful with his posts.
Sameech was brought in at the end of the night instead of at the beginning. That could leave 2 scum operating shorthanded waiting for a Ropey replacement. But the way Rosie was so on about "outing Ropey, I think Ropey/Sameech is town.

dblack was the 6th vote. He's against SB's rush to lynch Rosie so quickly, wants time for evidence to come up and be sorted. Even though he suspects Rosie.

Luissa - the 5th vote. I don't know what to think of her.

Rosie - Vote #4. Avatar's pick for lynching. Rosie claimed - twice - that she outed Ropey as the town bodyguard. Why would you out another townie, a proctector???
Is Rosie a dumb townie? Or is Rosie scum and she thought she could get Ropey/Sameech voted off because Bodyguard is a suicide role anyway? Or are Rosie and Ropey/Sameech both scum and this is a ploy to make them both seem VERY town? Am I overthinking this?

Me - I was sure Avi was scum. His "plan" to use the cop and doctor with no idea how to kill the mafia roleblocker absolutely reeked of scum to me. He tended to suspect everyone of voting against him as being scum. And he would not shut up with that "for the children" crap - he went on with it to the point where I was positive it was a smokescreen.

I was wrong.

The second vote was RD. RD seems pretty helpful, suggests looking for whoever wants to divide and rush things. (Then again, maybe it's reverse psychology.)

Mertex was the first vote. Revenge for Game One? Maybe. I can't get a read.


But I'm certain that not all 3 scum voted for Avi.

AyeCantSeeYou, I think is townie.

Strollingbones - Rushing to lynch Rosie, that "we" comment, and how the hell did she know Avi was a townie?

Wolfsister77 - She reads townie to me.

Shaitra - Not 100% sure, but I think she's townie

Manifold - Again, not 100% sure, but I think he's townie.

I'm sorry, but I want more evidence before I vote.


I'm going to try something that will help me read people better.

All of you - What's your theme role? This can be very vital information, I'll tell you why after everyone answers.

I'm the Town tailor/seamstress.
 
It probably wouldn't hurt to analyze the Avi situation so here goes. I always thought he was town. It was based on his posts. He was actively participating and trying to come up with a plan to catch scum, he genuinely did not seem to know who to vote for or know who they were and was actively trying to find out with good reads lists and asking others what they thought and asking for info. from others on who to vote for. Town would not know anything on Day 1. He said he was innocent repeatedly and that he was town which was a change from his original game play where he worded things differently. Even though it looked like he was going down he was trying to leave info. in place to help town regardless of that.
But he was doing the same thing as when he was Scum, and everyone says they are innocent. The fact that you believed him and it turned out to be true was just luck...we believed him too, the first time and it turned out to be our demise.

I vigorously defending him because I wanted him in the game. It's a way to win the game. There are other ways to win but that was one. I felt like there was prejudice from the first game by those who got fooled. That plays into the scum's hands nicely.
I don't think it's prejudice so much as he was saying the same thing. I don't feel that Shiatra is Scum, and she was scum the last time, so I'm not agreeing with that.


I still believe there was a plan in place by scum to take him out from the beginning. He won the first game very effectively and was obviously a threat to them. I also think at least one or two votes for him were scum. He sat for a long time without a hammer. Probably because they couldn't like he said. I thought that reasoning was sound, yet it was shot down repeatedly. mebelle acting funny at the end still doesn't sit well with me. Saying she wouldn't hammer, hammering, saying she didn't know she was hammering even though we talked about it repeatedly, hammering without consensus. It is definitely shady.
Yeah, I'm still suspicious about MeBelle. I would rather go after MeBelle than Rosie, I just don't get the feeling that Rosie is Scum. Of course, I thought that about Avi the first time too, and look what happened.

I'm willing to switch to her but I'd like to hear from her.
If I see others voting for her, I will change my vote to her.
 
I have a headache. I've tried re-re-re-and re-reading the first day and now I got nothin'.

It stands to reason that at least 1 if not 2 mafia voted for Avatar. It also stands to reason that one held back, voting for someone else.

Until the game stagnated.

That's when MeBelle dropped the hammer on Avi, then tried to switch her vote to Rosie when it was too late. Scummy.

Ropey (now Sameech) was next to last to vote for Avi. Ropey wasn't exactly helpful with his posts.
Sameech was brought in at the end of the night instead of at the beginning. That could leave 2 scum operating shorthanded waiting for a Ropey replacement. But the way Rosie was so on about "outing Ropey, I think Ropey/Sameech is town.

dblack was the 6th vote. He's against SB's rush to lynch Rosie so quickly, wants time for evidence to come up and be sorted. Even though he suspects Rosie.

Luissa - the 5th vote. I don't know what to think of her.

Rosie - Vote #4. Avatar's pick for lynching. Rosie claimed - twice - that she outed Ropey as the town bodyguard. Why would you out another townie, a proctector???
Is Rosie a dumb townie? Or is Rosie scum and she thought she could get Ropey/Sameech voted off because Bodyguard is a suicide role anyway? Or are Rosie and Ropey/Sameech both scum and this is a ploy to make them both seem VERY town? Am I overthinking this?

Me - I was sure Avi was scum. His "plan" to use the cop and doctor with no idea how to kill the mafia roleblocker absolutely reeked of scum to me. He tended to suspect everyone of voting against him as being scum. And he would not shut up with that "for the children" crap - he went on with it to the point where I was positive it was a smokescreen.

I was wrong.

The second vote was RD. RD seems pretty helpful, suggests looking for whoever wants to divide and rush things. (Then again, maybe it's reverse psychology.)

Mertex was the first vote. Revenge for Game One? Maybe. I can't get a read.


But I'm certain that not all 3 scum voted for Avi.

AyeCantSeeYou, I think is townie.

Strollingbones - Rushing to lynch Rosie, that "we" comment, and how the hell did she know Avi was a townie?

Wolfsister77 - She reads townie to me.

Shaitra - Not 100% sure, but I think she's townie

Manifold - Again, not 100% sure, but I think he's townie.

I'm sorry, but I want more evidence before I vote.


I'm going to try something that will help me read people better.

All of you - What's your theme role? This can be very vital information, I'll tell you why after everyone answers.

I'm the Town tailor/seamstress.

I'm a lowly waitress.....dang, he could've given me a more lucrative role....tsk, tsk.

I really don't know where you're going with this, but I'm game.
 
Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

I think AyeCantSeeYou is Mafia....the fact that she's jumping on Mani's suggestion so quickly and was one of the first to go after Rosie after SB suggested it....yep, you sure smell scummy to me.

I think I'm going to change my vote to either MeBelle or AyeCantSeeYou....you were one of the ones that was too anxious to hurry up and get Rosie the last time and again....so, you seem a lot like Scum to me.

As I've said before, if you suspect me, then vote for me. Last time, not one person that brought me up did that. I even went and voted for myself to get the ball rolling. Not one person jumped on it.

I think you are mafia, to be honest. It seemed to me that you and Rosie were working together pretty much all of the past week. It could be coincidence, which I know this will be argued against, but I really don't think it is. You kept trying to convince us all that Avatar was scum, which it was later proven he wasn't. You've been trying to convince people that I am as well, which you will find out I'm not one way or another. I've been accused of being Avatar's accomplice and goon, which of course, I can't be. Remember telling me that if ya'll were right on Avatar being scum, I'd be next?
Well, go ahead and vote for me, and bring the Town down another Townie....and the fact that Rosie and I were voting for the same one doesn't mean that we were working together. Were you, SB and Wolfsister working together on Rosie?

........ So, if we happen to be right on Avatar, you're probably going to be next. Just a thought.

You were wrong about him, and you're still wrong about me.
And you're wrong about me.
 
Also, I wasn't 'anxious' to vote for anyone. I waited several days to put a solid vote in, unlike you, Mertex. I read posts, re-read them, looked for changes in posting style, changes in personality, etc. I took note of those that would attack people when their names were mentioned as opposed to those who defended themselves. But yet, by not voting for the person you want me and everyone else to vote for, I'm considered scummy?


Actually, you and Strollingbones voted for Rosie on the same day. I went back and checked.....and it was a hard vote for both of you....so don't accuse me of not reading posts when you can't even remember when you voted.

But, after reading over the posts, yet again, I have come to the conclusion that MeBelle does seem the most suspicious. Her comments haven't been very revealing, and then her vote was rather abrupt....and then that little trick of changing it at the last minute was what really sealed it for me.

I figured that if she was Mafia, she knew that Rosie and Avatar were both Townies, so it didn't matter if she voted for Avatar or Rosie, and her little switch might have been intentional to make us think she didn't know. The two other Mafia might have been voting for Avatar or Rosie....could be Luissa and Ropey/Sammeech.

So, I'm changing my vote.

VOTE:Mebelle
 

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