Official USMB Mafia Game #6: The Rebels In The Palace

[CaféAuLait]

I've just gone back and read the vote on IKA. It was a counter to Wolfsisters wagon. Something which was pushed because of his random voting thing.

What I found was Shai either soft defended or advocated not voting for IKA two times, and another she said she thought the vote was moving too quick and we still have lots of time left to decide. FA said IKA might be a good lynch, but said it was wayyyyyy to early to vote for IKA he would hold off ( same as Shai). FA then also points to those on IKA wagon and lists them and says scum must be on IKA wagon and the wagon begins to fall apart with Mertex the first to unvote. Mathblade states she should vote IKA and Arden immediately jumps in and asks Mathblade if she is scum.

I made many notes on this, it would be too long to put up. I'll also note both FA and Shai did not vote for IKA.

VOTE: IKA

last guard: Arden or Josh

Ursurper:: SR???

 

[Wolfsister77]

I've just gone back and read the vote on IKA. It was a counter to Wolfsisters wagon. Something which was pushed because of his random voting thing.

What I found was Shai either soft defended or advocated not voting for IKA two times, and another she said she thought the vote was moving too quick and we still have lots of time left to decide. FA said IKA might be a good lynch, but said it was wayyyyyy to early to vote for IKA he would hold off ( same as Shai). FA then also points to those on IKA wagon and lists them and says scum must be on IKA wagon and the wagon begins to fall apart with Mertex the first to unvote. Mathblade states she should vote IKA and Arden immediately jumps in and asks Mathblade if she is scum.

I made many notes on this, it would be too long to put up. I'll also note both FA and Shai did not vote for IKA.

VOTE: IKA

last guard: Arden or Josh

Ursurper:: SR???

Arden is the guard. She has been defending Ika all the time. I'll go pull the posts but remember how many times she asked us why we were voting for Ika? Remember all the times she's called him town for nothing? Yeah, Ika is the ruler and Arden is a gurad. I would put Avi as the usurper.

I am going to go pull those Arden posts.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Oh I meant to say reasons for Arden being last guard is because she was against his lynch several times and Josh, because he started a counter to IKA's lynch in Rosie because he said she was crumbing "king" and her "right guard" comment. However, I lean more for Arden being last guard than Josh.

 

[CaféAuLait]

I've just gone back and read the vote on IKA. It was a counter to Wolfsisters wagon. Something which was pushed because of his random voting thing.

What I found was Shai either soft defended or advocated not voting for IKA two times, and another she said she thought the vote was moving too quick and we still have lots of time left to decide. FA said IKA might be a good lynch, but said it was wayyyyyy to early to vote for IKA he would hold off ( same as Shai). FA then also points to those on IKA wagon and lists them and says scum must be on IKA wagon and the wagon begins to fall apart with Mertex the first to unvote. Mathblade states she should vote IKA and Arden immediately jumps in and asks Mathblade if she is scum.

I made many notes on this, it would be too long to put up. I'll also note both FA and Shai did not vote for IKA.

VOTE: IKA

last guard: Arden or Josh

Ursurper:: SR???

Arden is the guard. She has been defending Ika all the time. I'll go pull the posts but remember how many times she asked us why we were voting for Ika? Remember all the times she's called him town for nothing? Yeah, Ika is the ruler and Arden is a gurad. I would put Avi as the usurper.

I am going to go pull those Arden posts.

Arden 256. 303, 332, 337
Josh 305, 306 diverts to Rosie

 

[CaféAuLait]

Oh and one of the few comments TSO/Grandma made was he did not support IKA lynch. The he disappeared for good. 256

 

[CaféAuLait]

Wolfsister77 AyeCantSeeYou

Why don't we do what we did the last time and we caught us some Scum. I asked you and Aye to list your 4 Top Scum (I can't remember if I asked Cafe) but this is what I ended up with after you two responded. IIRC Cafe didn't want to commit, said she had to go do some more reading, so I don't know where she's at with this.

Me: Top 4 Scum = Avatar/Shaitra/SR/Grandma
Wolf: = Arden/Shaitra/Math/SR
Aye: =Math/SR/Shaitra/Avatar

We all had Shaitra as one of our 4 top Scum, we went after her and we turned out to be right.

What other person do you see on all three of our Top 4 Scum? Both Aye and I were willing to cast a vote on her, but you, Wolf, were not, instead you want to cast it against Aye.

Aye didn't give me her Top 4 Town, but mine was:

Wolf/Cafe/Aye/Myself

Yours was:
Josh/Cafe/Ika/yourself. (I noticed I didn't make your Top 4 - and I want to know what makes you doubt my Towniness?)

Aye didn't provide me with her Top 4 town, but maybe if she would, we can ask those that are on all 3 of our reads to list their 4 top Scum and maybe we can narrow it down even further.

Right now Cafe and you are on both of our list of Top 4 Town, maybe she's on Aye's list, too? We can ask Cafe is she has narrowed down her Scum list and see how it compares.

I honestly am having a hard time this game. I am distracted because of school and I also think it is the set-up. My reads are much more fluid then they usually are. It feels like this game is terribly chaotic. Like it is some ADHD Mafia game. Gah!

For now town reads are:

Mertex
Wolf

It is short, because ANY of those people I am reading as town can be usurper. I can't say I am sure on the above because of that fact.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Holy Crap, Check this guard defending her ruler. FA did use the word King right? Look here and I have't even checked Shaitra or SR's comments yet. This is just Arden who barely posted but defending Ika a lot.

I don't get why ika is being voted. Is this a policy lynch? Those are dumb.

This is when Ika's wagon was going. Ika hadn't posted much but she sure did object to his wagon.

I do not agree at all that ika is refusing to play the game.

Defending Ika again.

I see the situation more as ika pushing his own opinions and agenda. ika is off doing his own thing and trying to solve the game through the way he personally sees best. That's not scum.

Advocating for a policy lynch on him is worse than anything he's said, and the manner in which it's being done is horrible. This is why I'm still voting House.

Look here, defends Ika again. Calls it a policy lynch. diverts to House.

Ika would not be a bad candidate for lynching imho as he is simply not going to play. Getting any reads on him are going to be impossible.

However, it is not only to early BUT we should also not be lynching him unless there is no better option. At the very least, we need to be looking at his wagon as it developed VERY fast. That is usually a good indication that there is scum on it.

The list is:
Mertex
Avatar4321
ScarletRage
Wolfsister77
AyeCantSeeYou
House

Avatar gave his reason above. I would like the rest to restate why they jumped on ika so damn quickly.

I strongly agree with the part that I've bolded.

So this is huge!! Arden strongly agrees with FA that there is scum on Ika's wagon. Yep, two guards who do not want their ruler lynched.

@who ever said winning vs playing comment: i am a player who breaks the game by its own mechanics. this game is broken by its mechanics so i do that.

play me in a regular game of mafia and you will see i am not so much like this but will still try to break a game

This is town.

The ika lynch is fruitless and gets us nowhere.

I believe the ika lynch is being used by some players as an excuse to avoid and postpone actual scumhunting for the day.

Calling Ika town when he is actually anti-town.

Ugh I am so tempted to vote Ika just so this nonsense ends. Having the discussion circling around ika instead of hunting gets us nowhere.

Are you scum?

Calls mathblade scum for wanting to vote Ika.

Hey everyone. I seriously want more votes on me. There's at least 2 players that are either scum trying to start drama with me or they are so utterly condescending towards me and my play style that it'll be a constant distraction to the game.

It would be better for town if I'm out.

I'm going back to ika.

vote ika

So we're wasting our lynch again? Hell no.

I believe Wolf is town. I believe ika is town. And regardless of my townreads, two policy lynches in a row is not how you win games.

Shit will keep happening. People will keep playing in ways that you may personally believe to be subpar. But you don't lynch them for it. You try to figure out if they're town or not, and move on.

The point of the game is to lynch scum, and my vote above reflects that. I believe FA_Q2 is scum trying to burn through as many early game policy/mislynches as possible; since scum can't kill, the best way for early survival is to try and push these kinds of lynches, since it's harder to analyze policy votes later on as opposed to votes generated due to reads (basically, it's easier to push a mostly-policy lynch than completely fake reads as scum). I also have a minor scumread on Avatar now because of his reaction to Rosie flipping town as well as the ika vote.

Here she is defending both myself and Ika against PL's-this quote IS edited to remove un-necessary filler. BUT she is scumreading Avi for voing Ika also.

I am going to take a chill pill today. Ika gave me reasoning yesterday for his behavior. Not sure if I buy it but it is best to give ika space atm.

I don't completely agree with your view of the gamestate, but I am grateful that you are choosing to take this course of action.

Grateful to SR for not voting Ika anymore.

@ People talking about ika being ruler because people have defended him:

You are making a bad argument. You are discounting the likely possibility of town defending their townreads. You are discounting the likely possibility that guards know better than to so strongly defend their ruler when all attention is on them. You are discounting the likely possibility that in this large of a game, the real ruler hasn't yet received a significant enough amount of pressure such that guards would have to risk associating themselves with them.

The majority of this game so far has revolved around ika, Wolf, and Rosie. Can we please step away from that now? It's a huge shiny distraction based mainly on reasoning relating more to policy lynches rather than actual scumhunting. Because of this, I think the real ruler has been able to largely stay under the radar in terms of suspicion, because people are so focused on namecalling and policy lynching that edges out any discussion with an actual chance of finding scum.

Now, this does explain her reasoning for defending Ika but she has nothing to defend Ika on at this point. She wants to divert attention away from Ika.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

 

[Wolfsister77]

Vote: Ika

He's the ruler. Arden is the guard.

We can find the usurper later.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Holy Crap, Check this guard defending her ruler. FA did use the word King right? Look here and I have't even checked Shaitra or SR's comments yet. This is just Arden who barely posted but defending Ika a lot.

I don't get why ika is being voted. Is this a policy lynch? Those are dumb.

This is when Ika's wagon was going. Ika hadn't posted much but she sure did object to his wagon.

I do not agree at all that ika is refusing to play the game.

Defending Ika again.

I see the situation more as ika pushing his own opinions and agenda. ika is off doing his own thing and trying to solve the game through the way he personally sees best. That's not scum.

Advocating for a policy lynch on him is worse than anything he's said, and the manner in which it's being done is horrible. This is why I'm still voting House.

Look here, defends Ika again. Calls it a policy lynch. diverts to House.

Ika would not be a bad candidate for lynching imho as he is simply not going to play. Getting any reads on him are going to be impossible.

However, it is not only to early BUT we should also not be lynching him unless there is no better option. At the very least, we need to be looking at his wagon as it developed VERY fast. That is usually a good indication that there is scum on it.

The list is:
Mertex
Avatar4321
ScarletRage
Wolfsister77
AyeCantSeeYou
House

Avatar gave his reason above. I would like the rest to restate why they jumped on ika so damn quickly.

I strongly agree with the part that I've bolded.

So this is huge!! Arden strongly agrees with FA that there is scum on Ika's wagon. Yep, two guards who do not want their ruler lynched.

@who ever said winning vs playing comment: i am a player who breaks the game by its own mechanics. this game is broken by its mechanics so i do that.

play me in a regular game of mafia and you will see i am not so much like this but will still try to break a game

This is town.

The ika lynch is fruitless and gets us nowhere.

I believe the ika lynch is being used by some players as an excuse to avoid and postpone actual scumhunting for the day.

Calling Ika town when he is actually anti-town.

Ugh I am so tempted to vote Ika just so this nonsense ends. Having the discussion circling around ika instead of hunting gets us nowhere.

Are you scum?

Calls mathblade scum for wanting to vote Ika.

Hey everyone. I seriously want more votes on me. There's at least 2 players that are either scum trying to start drama with me or they are so utterly condescending towards me and my play style that it'll be a constant distraction to the game.

It would be better for town if I'm out.

I'm going back to ika.

vote ika

So we're wasting our lynch again? Hell no.

I believe Wolf is town. I believe ika is town. And regardless of my townreads, two policy lynches in a row is not how you win games.

Shit will keep happening. People will keep playing in ways that you may personally believe to be subpar. But you don't lynch them for it. You try to figure out if they're town or not, and move on.

The point of the game is to lynch scum, and my vote above reflects that. I believe FA_Q2 is scum trying to burn through as many early game policy/mislynches as possible; since scum can't kill, the best way for early survival is to try and push these kinds of lynches, since it's harder to analyze policy votes later on as opposed to votes generated due to reads (basically, it's easier to push a mostly-policy lynch than completely fake reads as scum). I also have a minor scumread on Avatar now because of his reaction to Rosie flipping town as well as the ika vote.

Here she is defending both myself and Ika against PL's-this quote IS edited to remove un-necessary filler. BUT she is scumreading Avi for voing Ika also.

I am going to take a chill pill today. Ika gave me reasoning yesterday for his behavior. Not sure if I buy it but it is best to give ika space atm.

I don't completely agree with your view of the gamestate, but I am grateful that you are choosing to take this course of action.

Grateful to SR for not voting Ika anymore.

@ People talking about ika being ruler because people have defended him:

You are making a bad argument. You are discounting the likely possibility of town defending their townreads. You are discounting the likely possibility that guards know better than to so strongly defend their ruler when all attention is on them. You are discounting the likely possibility that in this large of a game, the real ruler hasn't yet received a significant enough amount of pressure such that guards would have to risk associating themselves with them.

The majority of this game so far has revolved around ika, Wolf, and Rosie. Can we please step away from that now? It's a huge shiny distraction based mainly on reasoning relating more to policy lynches rather than actual scumhunting. Because of this, I think the real ruler has been able to largely stay under the radar in terms of suspicion, because people are so focused on namecalling and policy lynching that edges out any discussion with an actual chance of finding scum.

Now, this does explain her reasoning for defending Ika but she has nothing to defend Ika on at this point. She wants to divert attention away from Ika.

Yes, I know that is what made me look harder at IKA's wagon and who was defending it above. I recalled Shai's posts and FA's. Then I saw the post where Arden asked if Math was scum because she wanted to move her vote to IKA.

 

[Wolfsister77]

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

I have either Avi or SR as the usurper do to their voting pattern and behavior with a slight possibility of it being mathblade due to her behavior also.

It could be Aye or Mertex or Grandma but I really don't see it here.

 

[Wolfsister77]

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

This is where I thought you were defending her when I voted her for being the usurper when you asked me what post of yours was defending her. I'd be willing to put Avi as the usurper.

I'd be willing to go with:

Ruler-Ika
Guard-Arden
Usurper-Avatar

 

[MathBlade]

Hey guys sorry for the delay. I'm online and the only thing I'm focused on is finding Wake's posts so I can do a nice VCA and combine all the vote counts into a post with a spoiler tag. Should take about 2 hours and I have no interruptions atm.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

This is where I thought you were defending her when I voted her for being the usurper when you asked me what post of yours was defending her. I'd be willing to put Avi as the usurper.

I'd be willing to go with:

Ruler-Ika
Guard-Arden
Usurper-Avatar

I was and am looking for patterns which suggest usurper, not really defending SR. Usurper should want to vote each and every person, and push that wagon. SR did not seem to do that, but, with that said, she may be good at hiding such a voting pattern since she is an experienced player. I also recall her being against FA's vote and Avatars vote ( possibly suggesting a different role???? maybe another guard IDK) I suggested Aye since she was on all of the votes IIRC and seemed to go along with each vote. Avatar may have as well, but I have not analyzed his pattern yet.

 

[CaféAuLait]

The other thing which bothers me about SR is her bouncing around so much, something which is terribly unlike her normal "bulldog" getting her teeth into a read and sticking with it, no, ifs ands or buts.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Listen, I can make a case on Avi later when I have time but the reason I am acting kind of nuts is I am confused. I do not think Avi is the ruler. I have pretty much ruled that out since FA and Shaitra were on his wagon. But, I get very, very, very strong scum vibes from Avi. So strong that every time he posts I just want to lynch him. So he's either town who's completely off his town game to the point that every single person in this game has scumread him at one point or another, or he's a guard or the usurper. I am more certain of him than I am of Aye or SR.

Those of you voting SR, I don't get it. She isn't the ruler. She's been throwing herself out there, taking risks, making a target out of herself, and basically I see her town play from game 5. She could be the usurper towning it up to catch scum. But I doubt she's a guard. So she's a bad lynch.

Aye is looking like town Aye both in her defense of herself and in the way she has played most of the game. She could be the ruler but I just am not really seeing it. Who is her guard? Were FA and Shaitra that protective of her? Who is protecting her now? Anyone? I guess Avi or Josh or Mertex could be said to be protecting her by not wanting to vote her but I'm not so sure of that.

I guess I could look like a guard to either Aye or SR but I think you guys know how ridiculous that is. I'd be a bumbling idiot as the usurper so yeah, I'm definitely town. So why am I acting this way? Because I don't want active, involved townies dying and being left with a bunch of people don't really game solve or contribute enough to win this game. I play to win. I did that last game. I am doing it this game.

So how does town win? We get scum. Avi is screaming scum to me. Not as much as FA and Shaitra were but he is.

Mathblade is the only other one giving me scum vibes.

It is mostly gut, instinct, feeling with Avi. I feel scum when he posts and I was one of his strongest defenders as town in game 2 and he isn't playing anything like that or his town game in game 3. Not even close.

So I'd feel better about an Avi lynch. I will vote to break a tie on Aye if she gets to L-1 by deadline so it isn't like I won't vote her but I just want to make sure it's a good choice. I doubt you'll get me to vote for SR this round.

So anyway, there's what I'm thinking.

Look Wolf, take a deep breath. Now go back and read your posts. I am reading. And it seems every time you either agree with a case or make one of your own, you suddenly change gears. Now, look at why you change gears. I think someone is buddying you. Look back and see IF you can see it too Wolf.

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

This is where I thought you were defending her when I voted her for being the usurper when you asked me what post of yours was defending her. I'd be willing to put Avi as the usurper.

I'd be willing to go with:

Ruler-Ika
Guard-Arden
Usurper-Avatar

I was and am looking for patterns which suggest usurper, not really defending SR. Usurper should want to vote each and every person, and push that wagon. SR did not seem to do that, but, with that said, she may be good at hiding such a voting pattern since she is an experienced player. I also recall her being against FA's vote and Avatars vote ( possibly suggesting a different role???? maybe another guard IDK) I suggested Aye since she was on all of the votes IIRC and seemed to go along with each vote. Avatar may have as well, but I have not analyzed his pattern yet.

Are you thinking she's scum buddying me or town trying to work with other town?

 

[Wake]

Vote Count 5.4​

★Arden (0):
Avatar4321 (1): Mertex
AyeCantSeeYou (4): Grandma,★Arden, ScarletRage, ika
CafeAuLait (0):
Grandma (0):
ika (2): CafeAuLait, Wolfsister77
Josh_B (0):
Mathblade (0):
Mertex (1): Josh_B
ScarletRage (3): Mathblade, AyeCantSeeYou, Avatar4321
Wolfsister77 (0):

Not Voting (0):


~ With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
~ Deadline is 10/16/14, @9PM Central.

1.1 | 1.2 | 1.3 | 1.4 | 1.5
RosieS's Lynch & Flip
2.1 | 2.2 | 2.3 | 2.4 | 2.5 | 2.6
House's Lynch & Flip
3.1 | 3.2
FA_Q2's Lynch & Flip
4.1
Shaitra's Lynch & Flip
5.1 | 5.2 | 5.3 | 5.4​

 

[Wolfsister77]

The other thing which bothers me about SR is her bouncing around so much, something which is terribly unlike her normal "bulldog" getting her teeth into a read and sticking with it, no, ifs ands or buts.

She was pretty darn hard on me earlier in the game when she thought I was scum. She had me as scum most of the game with math and Josh as my scumbuddies. When she realized her reads where off when FA flipped, she seemed to completely change her tune regarding all 3 of us. I would hold this against her except I am all over the place as well in my reads since Shaitra flipped as you can see today I've been a little nuts to say the least. So I don't know what to make of it at this point.

 

[Wolfsister77]

And I had my old usurper read up there, it still stands at Aye. Again, SR's votes do not support her being usurper though- this is why I am leaning against her as usurper, who knows maybe she is good at hiding her tracks though,

This is where I thought you were defending her when I voted her for being the usurper when you asked me what post of yours was defending her. I'd be willing to put Avi as the usurper.

I'd be willing to go with:

Ruler-Ika
Guard-Arden
Usurper-Avatar

I was and am looking for patterns which suggest usurper, not really defending SR. Usurper should want to vote each and every person, and push that wagon. SR did not seem to do that, but, with that said, she may be good at hiding such a voting pattern since she is an experienced player. I also recall her being against FA's vote and Avatars vote ( possibly suggesting a different role???? maybe another guard IDK) I suggested Aye since she was on all of the votes IIRC and seemed to go along with each vote. Avatar may have as well, but I have not analyzed his pattern yet.

I have zero experience hunting neutrals or 3rd parties. I really don't know how they'd behave. It's tough to say for sure. I'm picking Avi mostly on his pinging so hard for me. It could be SR also or someone we haven't even considered yet. Not sure with this.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Wolfsister77 AyeCantSeeYou

Why don't we do what we did the last time and we caught us some Scum. I asked you and Aye to list your 4 Top Scum (I can't remember if I asked Cafe) but this is what I ended up with after you two responded. IIRC Cafe didn't want to commit, said she had to go do some more reading, so I don't know where she's at with this.

Me: Top 4 Scum = Avatar/Shaitra/SR/Grandma
Wolf: = Arden/Shaitra/Math/SR
Aye: =Math/SR/Shaitra/Avatar

We all had Shaitra as one of our 4 top Scum, we went after her and we turned out to be right.

What other person do you see on all three of our Top 4 Scum? Both Aye and I were willing to cast a vote on her, but you, Wolf, were not, instead you want to cast it against Aye.

Aye didn't give me her Top 4 Town, but mine was:

Wolf/Cafe/Aye/Myself

Yours was:
Josh/Cafe/Ika/yourself. (I noticed I didn't make your Top 4 - and I want to know what makes you doubt my Towniness?)

Aye didn't provide me with her Top 4 town, but maybe if she would, we can ask those that are on all 3 of our reads to list their 4 top Scum and maybe we can narrow it down even further.

Right now Cafe and you are on both of our list of Top 4 Town, maybe she's on Aye's list, too? We can ask Cafe is she has narrowed down her Scum list and see how it compares.

You and Cafe are my top townreads right now. I realize that's only 2 because I'm unsure of usurper role or who has it.

Top scum-Arden, Ika, Avi

Everyone else is open right now depending on flips and whatnot.