Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits

In my opinion, the biggest mistake religion makes is that God does not visit anyone not in the Bible, that such visits were reserved for times past. It is quite understandable because humans being as we are quite capable of making up such visits, and that can be used to the detriment of many. Telling us God doesn't interact with modern man crushes that problem--but perhaps to the detriment of just as many?

As I have said over and over again, the Bible makes little for many who have had no experience of God. Seek God, then study the Bible properly.

Ding never met God?

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for a further 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Evolutionists have NEVER been able to fabricate any new species separate from its former species. Yes, we have breeding and inbreeding within any given existing breed; however, the cat remains a kind of cat. The dog remains a kind of dog. The cow remains a kind of cow. And the corona virus remains a virus. You cannot possibly tell me honestly that you have never experienced any doubt whatsoever in your platform of reasoning. That my friend is the Holy Spirit --- the still small voice trying to reason with you before it's too late.

It happens so slowly that we can't replicate it but we see enough evidence and have enough facts that evolution is a scientific theory which is pretty much a fact unless you have something good that debunks the theory but you don't.

You have a fairytale. Thngs in your book are scientifically impossible yet you believe them. Think about that. You deny scientific peer reviewed consensus but you have faith in virgin births and the idea that you yourself will be a god when you die. You'll live in a realm called heaven and you'll never get sick angry or sad for the rest of all eternity.

Your theory is a god poofed land animals into existence right?

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe instead of looking at turds they should be looking at the fabric of existence to see the signs of a creator.

all that amazing stuff you see in nature are not signs of a creator. our ignorant ancestors thought so but the more we learned the more we realized this world wasn't made for us.

I know you think there must be but there doesn't have to be a god.

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits assholes like you. LOL

How do you know?

Because it's ridiculous. It's like my friends when we were growing up said they saw ghosts. Sure they did.

But I know they weren't lying. You aren't lying either. You're delusional.

What is ridiculous? That consciousness without form created existence from nothing? Why is that ridiculous? How do you know consciousness without form didn't create existence?

I thought you said you were open minded, right?

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

Sure it's possible.

 

[sealybobo]

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits

In my opinion, the biggest mistake religion makes is that God does not visit anyone not in the Bible, that such visits were reserved for times past. It is quite understandable because humans being as we are quite capable of making up such visits, and that can be used to the detriment of many. Telling us God doesn't interact with modern man crushes that problem--but perhaps to the detriment of just as many?

As I have said over and over again, the Bible makes little for many who have had no experience of God. Seek God, then study the Bible properly.

Ding never met God?

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for a further 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

So you were expecting him to do magic for you? Create everything all at once?

I think the problem is that it's your perception of what God is supposed to be that's messed up. It's like you think he exists for you or something. Like he's your servant or show pony. Doesn't that seem backwards to you?

But I am super happy that you are showing your true colors, SB. You aren't open minded. You aren't discussing God so that you might discover God. You're doing this because you're an asshole. Deep down inside, you are rotten. But that's not God's fault. That's your fault.

No this is what you believe. You believe this god created all this for you. You don't believe you are just another animal.

So you believe in evolution? Humans were once monkeys and before that rodent like and before that we crawled out of the water? Or do you believe god POOFED land animals onto earth. See? You think god waved a wand and created the diversity you see. Either that or you are cherry picking again. A pro religion science guy?

I'm an agnostic atheist so no I'm not expecting to find a god. I'm open minded but also skeptical.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

Maybe instead of looking at turds they should be looking at the fabric of existence to see the signs of a creator.

all that amazing stuff you see in nature are not signs of a creator. our ignorant ancestors thought so but the more we learned the more we realized this world wasn't made for us.

I know you think there must be but there doesn't have to be a god.

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits assholes like you. LOL

How do you know?

Because it's ridiculous. It's like my friends when we were growing up said they saw ghosts. Sure they did.

But I know they weren't lying. You aren't lying either. You're delusional.

What is ridiculous? That consciousness without form created existence from nothing? Why is that ridiculous? How do you know consciousness without form didn't create existence?

I thought you said you were open minded, right?

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

Sure it's possible.

Which part? That space and time were created from nothing? Or that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Or that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Which one do you dispute and why?

 

[ding]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same questions to you.

Which one do you dispute and why? Do you dispute that space and time were created from nothing? Do you dispute that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Do you dispute that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Because I would really really like to know what basis you have for disputing any of these consequences of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you have a scientific background that allows you to speak intelligently about the consequences of the SLoT? Because I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers you have that disprove the SLoT.

 

[Grumblenuts]

So no denial about being a (former?) creation "science" nut. Yes, I dispute all three for various reasons. Yes, I have a lifetime of scientific background. No, from past experience I know you're not equipped to comprehend my rebuttals so I'm not getting into it with you.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe instead of looking at turds they should be looking at the fabric of existence to see the signs of a creator.

all that amazing stuff you see in nature are not signs of a creator. our ignorant ancestors thought so but the more we learned the more we realized this world wasn't made for us.

I know you think there must be but there doesn't have to be a god.

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits assholes like you. LOL

How do you know?

Because it's ridiculous. It's like my friends when we were growing up said they saw ghosts. Sure they did.

But I know they weren't lying. You aren't lying either. You're delusional.

What is ridiculous? That consciousness without form created existence from nothing? Why is that ridiculous? How do you know consciousness without form didn't create existence?

I thought you said you were open minded, right?

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

Sure it's possible.

Which part? That space and time were created from nothing? Or that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Or that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Which one do you dispute and why?

I don't know all I know is the stuff you argue about does not prove a god exists. I could ask you abut dark matter and space time continuoms and flux capacitors and your inability to answer my questiions doesn't prove I'm right.

Were space and time really created from nothing? Do you even know what that means? Because I can tell you it doesn't mean what you think it means. Your tiny brain can't fathom the truth and it's clear you make shit up in your head.

So tell me about thermal dynamics and how there can be a realm you call heaven based on any of the dumb shit you say.

 

[sealybobo]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same questions to you.

Which one do you dispute and why? Do you dispute that space and time were created from nothing? Do you dispute that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Do you dispute that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Because I would really really like to know what basis you have for disputing any of these consequences of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you have a scientific background that allows you to speak intelligently about the consequences of the SLoT? Because I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers you have that disprove the SLoT.

Look you stupid twat. The first thing I look up and see is this

What is nothing? Empty space? The absence of something? Scientists are hard-pressed to define the concept.

What Is Nothing? Physicists Debate

Physicists and philosophers debated the meaning of nothing, and whether nothing even exists, at a recent presentation at the American Museum of Natural History.

www.livescience.com

So if scientists are hard pressed to define the concept, what makes you think you are an expert on it?

 

[sealybobo]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same questions to you.

Which one do you dispute and why? Do you dispute that space and time were created from nothing? Do you dispute that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Do you dispute that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Because I would really really like to know what basis you have for disputing any of these consequences of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you have a scientific background that allows you to speak intelligently about the consequences of the SLoT? Because I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers you have that disprove the SLoT.

Lets say we agree with you. What are you saying that proves?

 

[ding]

So no denial about being a (former?) creation "science" nut. Yes, I dispute all three for various reasons. Yes, I have a lifetime of scientific background. No, from past experience I know you're not equipped to comprehend my rebuttals so I'm not getting into it with you.

I have never been a creation scientist. The universe is 14 billion years old. The earth is 4 billion years old. I’ve never believed different.

I’ve been a practicing engineer for 36 years. I’ve forgotten more science than you have probably ever known. I’m equipped to discuss anything you can throw at me.

I think it is more likely that you can’t discuss the science. What did you say your background was in science?

 

[ding]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same questions to you.

Which one do you dispute and why? Do you dispute that space and time were created from nothing? Do you dispute that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Do you dispute that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Because I would really really like to know what basis you have for disputing any of these consequences of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you have a scientific background that allows you to speak intelligently about the consequences of the SLoT? Because I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers you have that disprove the SLoT.

Lets say we agree with you. What are you saying that proves?

That the logical conclusion is that mind, rather than being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, is the source or matrix of the material world such that the universe evolved to create beings that know and create.

 

[Meriweather]

The part I don't buy is that a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

It appears God has always revealed Himself to all cultures at all times. Most of the accounts appear to have been oral, but we retain at least one written account. Priest, Priestesses, Gods (and Goddesses) seem to have always been a part of culture.

 

[ding]

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

He posted a link to an essay by an old hippie for backup on another thread. Don't hold your breath

He also used to go nuts arguing that the Earth was only about 6,000 years old and that carbon dating, dinosaur fossils and so forth were all horribly wrong or fake.

Creation science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same questions to you.

Which one do you dispute and why? Do you dispute that space and time were created from nothing? Do you dispute that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Do you dispute that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Because I would really really like to know what basis you have for disputing any of these consequences of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you have a scientific background that allows you to speak intelligently about the consequences of the SLoT? Because I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers you have that disprove the SLoT.

Look you stupid twat. The first thing I look up and see is this

What is nothing? Empty space? The absence of something? Scientists are hard-pressed to define the concept.

What Is Nothing? Physicists Debate

Physicists and philosophers debated the meaning of nothing, and whether nothing even exists, at a recent presentation at the American Museum of Natural History.

www.livescience.com

So if scientists are hard pressed to define the concept, what makes you think you are an expert on it?

First of all, that has nothing to do with what I am saying. We know that their description of nothing doesn’t contain the energy existing in this universe. Secondly, it has nothing to do with the thermodynamic reality that energy cannot exist eternally without equilibrating. To say nothing of the fact that the presence of energy creates space time. All of which tells us that the cause of the universe is something that is beyond energy and matter as we know it. And lastly, we know that the same laws that describe the evolution of space and time also describe how space and time could be created from nothing without violating the law of conservation.

So here I am having lots of reasons to believe as I do and you having zero reasons to believe as you do and you are calling me a twat? Really?

 

[Meriweather]

You have a fairytale. Thngs in your book are scientifically impossible yet you believe them.

We have a philosophy. If all you get from an account is a talking serpent (or donkey), a planet-wide flood, or a big fish then what you have is merely a fairy tale.

 

[ding]

Maybe instead of looking at turds they should be looking at the fabric of existence to see the signs of a creator.

all that amazing stuff you see in nature are not signs of a creator. our ignorant ancestors thought so but the more we learned the more we realized this world wasn't made for us.

I know you think there must be but there doesn't have to be a god.

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits assholes like you. LOL

How do you know?

Because it's ridiculous. It's like my friends when we were growing up said they saw ghosts. Sure they did.

But I know they weren't lying. You aren't lying either. You're delusional.

What is ridiculous? That consciousness without form created existence from nothing? Why is that ridiculous? How do you know consciousness without form didn't create existence?

I thought you said you were open minded, right?

Show me the peer reviewed scientific research on this theory/hypothesis.

Sure it's possible.

Which part? That space and time were created from nothing? Or that energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium? Or that the presence of energy creates space and time?

Which one do you dispute and why?

I don't know all I know is the stuff you argue about does not prove a god exists. I could ask you abut dark matter and space time continuoms and flux capacitors and your inability to answer my questiions doesn't prove I'm right.

Were space and time really created from nothing? Do you even know what that means? Because I can tell you it doesn't mean what you think it means. Your tiny brain can't fathom the truth and it's clear you make shit up in your head.

So tell me about thermal dynamics and how there can be a realm you call heaven based on any of the dumb shit you say.

I believe it actually does prove God created space and time. How else do you think a universe that was wired to produce beings that know and create popped into existence from nothing 14 billion years ago?

The SLoT precludes an infinite acting universe and it precludes energy being an eternal source for the creating the universe. So matter and energy being created from nothing without violating the FLoT is the only way the universe could have been created. Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations confirm that 14 billion years ago all of the energy in the universe occupied a tiny space and began to expand and cool until such time that beings that know and create were able to study what was created and conclude that the universe was created from nothing. So you don't find it odd that a universe that was wired to create beings that know and create popped into existence from nothing?

But hey if you want to explain "abut dark matter and space time continuoms and flux capacitors" and how they informed your opinion that there is no God, I am all ears.

As for questions I haven't answered, what do you want to know?

As for heaven, I have no idea about that. I just believe that the universe was created by consciousness without form.

 

[ding]

You have a fairytale. Thngs in your book are scientifically impossible yet you believe them.

We have a philosophy. If all you get from an account is a talking serpent (or donkey), a planet-wide flood, or a big fish then what you have is merely a fairy tale.

When I read Genesis, this is what I discovered....

To me Genesis tells us:

1. God created existence
2. Everything he created is good
3. What he created was done in steps
4. Man is a product of that creation
5. Man is unlike any other creature in creation
6. Man is made in God’s image in that he is a being which knows and creates
7. Man was told to go forth and be fruitful
8. Man was told to do as the original creator; to create for 6 days and then rest
9. Man knows right from wrong
10. Rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong when man does wrong, he rationalizes he didn’t do wrong (original sin)
11. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success
12. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure
13. Pass it down to the next generation

 

[ding]

So you guys had to make up a book that said god visited you because before that lie you didn't have enough to start an organized religion. You had to lie and say he visited. Then spent centuries cramming that like down our throats until we were brainwashed as a society same way in the middle east.

Then you say you've seen god? Yea, like he visits

In my opinion, the biggest mistake religion makes is that God does not visit anyone not in the Bible, that such visits were reserved for times past. It is quite understandable because humans being as we are quite capable of making up such visits, and that can be used to the detriment of many. Telling us God doesn't interact with modern man crushes that problem--but perhaps to the detriment of just as many?

As I have said over and over again, the Bible makes little for many who have had no experience of God. Seek God, then study the Bible properly.

Ding never met God?

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for a further 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Evolutionists have NEVER been able to fabricate any new species separate from its former species. Yes, we have breeding and inbreeding within any given existing breed; however, the cat remains a kind of cat. The dog remains a kind of dog. The cow remains a kind of cow. And the corona virus remains a virus. You cannot possibly tell me honestly that you have never experienced any doubt whatsoever in your platform of reasoning. That my friend is the Holy Spirit --- the still small voice trying to reason with you before it's too late.

It happens so slowly that we can't replicate it but we see enough evidence and have enough facts that evolution is a scientific theory which is pretty much a fact unless you have something good that debunks the theory but you don't.

You have a fairytale. Thngs in your book are scientifically impossible yet you believe them. Think about that. You deny scientific peer reviewed consensus but you have faith in virgin births and the idea that you yourself will be a god when you die. You'll live in a realm called heaven and you'll never get sick angry or sad for the rest of all eternity.

Your theory is a god poofed land animals into existence right?

If you perceive God to be some magical fairy tale then everything you see will skew to that result. There won't be one single thing that you will agree with or accept. Whereas if you were trying to objectively analyze the evidence of what was created you would look at everything with an open mind and not look for trivial things to nitpick.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if you start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

So when I read Genesis - which you consider fairytales - I see an ancient people addressing the weighty questions of where did we come from. I see a people who more than 6,000 years ago believed that the universe began and what they saw was created in steps. Which is exactly what we know today to be true. So why is it that you see fairytales when people 6,000 years ago saw answers to the weighty question of our origin?

 

[Hollie]

The part I don't buy is that a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

It appears God has always revealed Himself to all cultures at all times. Most of the accounts appear to have been oral, but we retain at least one written account. Priest, Priestesses, Gods (and Goddesses) seem to have always been a part of culture.

The gods of earlier cultures were quantitatively different from your gods. It's theistic arrogance to suggest earlier cultures confused their Gods with your Gods.

Mankind has invented many thousands Gods. Most of them have been abandoned or replaced with fewer and fewer Gods as cultures learned that the physical nature of things were explained by natural mechanisms. It was once thought that the Gods were responsible for all events in the natural world as humans manufactured Gods to rule over their fears and superstitions and to manage events in nature. Currently, in western culture the many Gods have been replaced by a one-stop-shopping, unionized syndicate of three gods.

 

[Meriweather]

The gods of earlier cultures were quantitatively different from your gods. It's theistic arrogance to suggest earlier cultures confused their Gods with your Gods.

I am not suggesting otherwise. As I have said countless times, God meets us where we are.