Paid time off for me, no paid time off for you.

[pknopp]

Let's see.

not playing your game of isolated idealism, dude. you said it's not right to take away and give to others UNLESS you do it your way from the evil rich to the few % you champion.

have it at man. we all need our windmills to tilt at. i just think it's fucking stupid.

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

With Trump getting ready to do it again. There is a huge benefit to the country, world and economy for affordable health care though.

Sure, I believe in affordable health care.

The difference is, socialized health care is neither a benefit, nor affordable. How many Canadians have died on waiting lists, after spending their entire lives paying a massive tax-price tag for their care?

Why are so many traveling to pay for care, after spending their entire lives paying for care they never got?

Yes, I'm all for affordable health care. Let's deregulated, de-socialize, and allow the free market to lower the price, and improve the quality of care. I'm all for it.

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

Massive price increases on EpiPens raise alarm

Regulations on "capitalism" is what you are missing.

 

[Andylusion]

see what I mean? we go from it's wrong to take from others to unless you don't like them.

You can misrepresent what I say if you wish. It's all you have.

what have i misrepresented?

i tell you this is how things work and you're going nuts trying to defend the extreme example
you go off and make up your extreme examples
i ask you to tell me how people are stealing
you show me articles on how the market works
i say this is normal
you say it's wrong to take from some to give to others
i ask you why it's ok to do that to those who have money
you now what to generisize the theft by making it "fed policy" so you can take from one to give to another

OF WHICH you just said was wrong.

so at this point, go fuck yourself.

How it works is the problem. We have massive Federal socialist programs to boost the markets but when someone wants to spread that around to more than a few you (and others) yell, SOCIALISM.

Never mind that the programs the few are benefitting from are socialist programs.

And even then the ones who get the most benefit aren't happy. They want to steal from others.

No one is stealing from others. I proved that wrong already.

The Fed is not engaged in handing out money. Not true. They are buying assets, in exchange for reserve credits.

If they were engaged in handing out money, there would be inflation across the entire country. It's not happening, because they are not doing it.

Pop.......15,000 here we come.

Nothing changes the fact, no one is stealing anything.
No one is taking money from old people. You are just either really ignorant, or a liar.

 

[pknopp]

How's that working for them right now? Do you understand that this is why retired people are reluctant to?

So why should they have their money stolen to boost the markets they aren't interested in?

That is why, as people get older, they diversity their investments into safer funds that may pay lower returns but generally don't fluctuate as much. Dude, you really need to learn something about this stuff.

The truly wealthy saw this coming and moved their money to safer havens. That's part of what drives market volitility.

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

What are you talking about? The markets are operating exactly how they always have.

I don't understand your claim about how "markets are supposed to work". What do you mean they are supposed to work? Who said they were supposed to operating in some arbitrary manor you made up?

They are working exactly how they have always worked. Values fluctuation. All values have always fluctuated.

Nothing is wrong with the market now, or in the past.

You are just ignorant of how the market works. Your ignorance, does not mean something is wrong. It just means you are ignorant.

Markets were never intended in capitalism to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

Agreed. I oppose all bailouts. Still does not change the fact the markets are working just fine without bailouts.

Then why are we going to bail them out again?

 

[pknopp]

You can misrepresent what I say if you wish. It's all you have.

what have i misrepresented?

i tell you this is how things work and you're going nuts trying to defend the extreme example
you go off and make up your extreme examples
i ask you to tell me how people are stealing
you show me articles on how the market works
i say this is normal
you say it's wrong to take from some to give to others
i ask you why it's ok to do that to those who have money
you now what to generisize the theft by making it "fed policy" so you can take from one to give to another

OF WHICH you just said was wrong.

so at this point, go fuck yourself.

How it works is the problem. We have massive Federal socialist programs to boost the markets but when someone wants to spread that around to more than a few you (and others) yell, SOCIALISM.

Never mind that the programs the few are benefitting from are socialist programs.

And even then the ones who get the most benefit aren't happy. They want to steal from others.

No one is stealing from others. I proved that wrong already.

The Fed is not engaged in handing out money. Not true. They are buying assets, in exchange for reserve credits.

If they were engaged in handing out money, there would be inflation across the entire country. It's not happening, because they are not doing it.

Pop.......15,000 here we come.

Nothing changes the fact, no one is stealing anything.
No one is taking money from old people. You are just either really ignorant, or a liar.

I didn't say they were. Again with the dishonesty. I said they want to.

 

[Andylusion]

not playing your game of isolated idealism, dude. you said it's not right to take away and give to others UNLESS you do it your way from the evil rich to the few % you champion.

have it at man. we all need our windmills to tilt at. i just think it's fucking stupid.

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

Sure, I believe in affordable health care.

The difference is, socialized health care is neither a benefit, nor affordable. How many Canadians have died on waiting lists, after spending their entire lives paying a massive tax-price tag for their care?

Why are so many traveling to pay for care, after spending their entire lives paying for care they never got?

Yes, I'm all for affordable health care. Let's deregulated, de-socialize, and allow the free market to lower the price, and improve the quality of care. I'm all for it.

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

Massive price increases on EpiPens raise alarm

Regulations on "capitalism" is what you are missing.

Now this is ironic...

So I did some digging into this, just for amusement.

Once again, the socialists blow their own foot off, with socialism, and blame capitalism for their own incompetence.

You stupid brainless fools... This is level of absolute stupidity, is exactly why Trump got elected.

There are two specific reasons Epi-Pens went up in cost.

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

So reason number one.... socialism.

And then the bigger of the two reasons, and most important....

A lack of free-market competition. Now that is fascinating isn't it.

Did you know that epinephrine is not even patented? Did you know that epinephrine has been synthesized since about 1906?

So let me ask you.... how is it that there is only one single supplier of epinephrine auto injectors in the entire US market?

Doesn't that make you curious? Are you not even a tad confused how in a free market, where it costs 10 cents to make a dose, and can be sold for $25, that not a single capitalist in the entire country thought.... "Hey I could make this, and sell it for $10, and make a killing!"?

Does your tiny little left-wing brain, not have the slightest curiosity as to why Capitalists always looking for a profit, have not jumped on this?

Well of course not. Of course you are not smart enough to ask questions, because if you were, you would ask, find out, and then stop being a left-winger.

Because the answer is... Government is why no capitalist has jumped into the epinephrine market. Government has prevented a free-market. And the result has been higher prices, and you idiots crying about Capitalism.

The irony is, you point to Europe, and yet Europe in this specific instance, is actually more capitalist, which is exactly way prices are lower. There are dozens of competitors in Europe, and because of competition in the market, the price is lower.

Reverse Voxsplaining: Drugs vs. Chairs

Let me ask Vox a question: when was the last time that America’s chair industry hiked the price of chairs 400% and suddenly nobody in the country could afford to sit down?

If a chair company decided to charge $300 for their chairs, somebody else would set up a woodshop, sell their chairs for $250, and make a killing – and so on until chairs cost normal-chair-prices again. When Mylan decided to sell EpiPens for $300, in any normal system somebody would have made their own EpiPens and sold them for less. It wouldn’t have been hard. Its active ingredient, epinephrine, is off-patent, was being synthesized as early as 1906, and costs about ten cents per EpiPen-load.

Why don’t they? They keep trying, and the FDA keeps refusing to approve them for human use. For example, in 2009, a group called Teva Pharmaceuticals announced a plan to sell their own EpiPens in the US. The makers of the original EpiPen sued them, saying that they had patented the idea epinephrine-injecting devices. Teva successfully fended off the challenge and brought its product to the FDA, which rejected it because of “certain major deficiencies”. As far as I know, nobody has ever publicly said what the problem was – we can only hope they at least told Teva.
​

You people are the reason we have problems with expensive health care. You people. You people on the left, with all your regulations, and government controls, you are the cause of high prices.

You stupid ignorant fools, are the cause of every single problem in our country.

 

[Andylusion]

That is why, as people get older, they diversity their investments into safer funds that may pay lower returns but generally don't fluctuate as much. Dude, you really need to learn something about this stuff.

The truly wealthy saw this coming and moved their money to safer havens. That's part of what drives market volitility.

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

What are you talking about? The markets are operating exactly how they always have.

I don't understand your claim about how "markets are supposed to work". What do you mean they are supposed to work? Who said they were supposed to operating in some arbitrary manor you made up?

They are working exactly how they have always worked. Values fluctuation. All values have always fluctuated.

Nothing is wrong with the market now, or in the past.

You are just ignorant of how the market works. Your ignorance, does not mean something is wrong. It just means you are ignorant.

Markets were never intended in capitalism to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

Agreed. I oppose all bailouts. Still does not change the fact the markets are working just fine without bailouts.

Then why are we going to bail them out again?

Why are you asking me? I'm a conservative. I'm against bailouts. Conservative pundits are against bailouts. We have been before there was even a Tea Party protesting bailouts.

Why are you asking me this? You are a Democrat, right? Democrats control the House of Representatives, and the House controls the purse of the entire government.

Why don't you talk to your Democrats, and tell them not to provide any money for bailouts. I'll support you in doing that.

 

[Andylusion]

Why would the market want negative rates? Rich people want a return on their savings too.

I wish I didn't have to deal with so much dishonesty too.

I don't care "what trump called for". Have you learned nothing all these years? Trump says all kinds of stuff. Pay less attention to what he says, and more to what he does.

The irony is, a bunch of people on here still claim that the Federal Reserve is a private bank, and if that's true, why does it matter what Trump says anyway?

Want to bet it happens? There is only one way to go from zero. Money was intended to be "FREE"?

Yes or no.... do wealthy people want interest on their deposits? Yes or no dude. Answer that, or shut up. You are speaking stupid non-stop.

No. They want 12% returns in the market. Wealthy people don't keep their money in savings.

Well that's not even true. I know many wealthy people who have a large chunk of their money in Money Market, and CDs.

Now obviously, a massive amount are in mutual funds. I agree. But to say that they don't keep money at banks... well yes of course they do.

Again with the dishonesty. Savings......you understand that is what we have been discussing. Not CD's.

No one has been stealing anyone's savings.

Again, utterly ridiculous. No one is stealing anything. Period. End of story.

 

[Andylusion]

Name the people doing that.

Trump.

Trump has ramped up calls for negative interest rates. Here's what they are and why they matter. | Markets Insider

Wall Street.

Voices: Is Pimco right that negative yields make sense?

They say it will be good for people to have their money taken from them.

he's trying to fix an overall economy. you are worried about a few who MAY be impacted by this and 9gnoring the people who are.

you seem to pride yourself on strawmaning up a helpless victim so you can prance around and shout for their defense.

I was asked a question. I supplied the answer. It would be cool if others would do the same when asked.

I thought it was wrong to take from some to give to others?

It is wrong to take from some to give to others.
Stop doing that.

We are not. The markets are not. No one is stealing from the old, like you claim.

Even the very low rates has been theft. Money was never intended to be free or nearly free. It is because capitalism has been broken.

. A low rate is not theft. Capitalism is not broken.

 

[Andylusion]

That is why, as people get older, they diversity their investments into safer funds that may pay lower returns but generally don't fluctuate as much. Dude, you really need to learn something about this stuff.

The truly wealthy saw this coming and moved their money to safer havens. That's part of what drives market volitility.

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

And yet, people get rich off the market all the time.

Because of the Feds Socialist policies.

Not true.

The reason Apple's stock pays a return, has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or socialism.

It has to do with Apple selling products, and making a profit.

My dividends, which I am still even now, collecting even with the market lower... is because Apple is still selling phones and computers, and making a profit.

No socialism is involved in this. The Fed is not bailing out Apple. The Fed is not boasting Apple's profit.

There is zero connection between the value of my stocks in companies like Apple, and their dividends, or their market value. It has to do with the profit of the company, and the value of the company.

Now we all know that the market has declined. And the reason is because investors are considering the possibility that there could be supply chain disruptions, and that this could hinder Apple Sales, and that this could hinder profits.

Again, what part of that equation has anything at all to do with the Federal Reserve? None.

So there is no socialism involved in the growth and profit of the market. You are just ignorant, and spewing nonsense someone told you, without any intellectual thought involved.

Fed injects trillions. The markets go up.....no one worked or sold a thing for this..........until it all pops again and the corporations come clamoring for another bail out.

Well already, your argument is false. Because according to you Fed is injecting trillions now, and the markets went down, and no one worked or sold a thing for this.

So, fail.

Regardless, that's not a failure of capitalism, or the markets... that's a failure of your government control. If the government refuses to bail out Lehman Brothers, then Lehman Brothers just isn't bailed out.

Doesn't matter if someone comes clamoring for another bailout or not. You just don't give it.

Call your Democrats who control the purse of government, and tell them... no bailouts. I'm all for it. I support that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let's see.

not playing your game of isolated idealism, dude. you said it's not right to take away and give to others UNLESS you do it your way from the evil rich to the few % you champion.

have it at man. we all need our windmills to tilt at. i just think it's fucking stupid.

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

With Trump getting ready to do it again. There is a huge benefit to the country, world and economy for affordable health care though.

Sure, I believe in affordable health care.

The difference is, socialized health care is neither a benefit, nor affordable. How many Canadians have died on waiting lists, after spending their entire lives paying a massive tax-price tag for their care?

Why are so many traveling to pay for care, after spending their entire lives paying for care they never got?

Yes, I'm all for affordable health care. Let's deregulated, de-socialize, and allow the free market to lower the price, and improve the quality of care. I'm all for it.

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

In case you're interested, or know somebody that purchases these products, Walmart made a dirty deal with the producers of insulin. The price you showed is what everybody else charges, or more depending on where you go. Walmart/ Sam's Club charges $24.99 for the exact same thing; same packaging, same vials, same everything. Except there is a little "R" on the outside of the package, and it stand for Walmart's generic brand, which is Reliance.

Of course, Walmart does not make insulin. They buy it in bulk from the producers and get a huge discount. The manufacturer drastically increase the price on all other pharmacies except Sam's Club, because Sam's is a subsidiary of Walmart.

People who don't do the research, or otherwise have prescription coverage don't bother to look around for cheaper prices, are getting ripped off. I had no choice because I don't have coverage, and I pay cash. What it cost me at other places for five vials of insulin was in the area of $325.00 a month. At Walmart, it's $125.00 a month. So I have no choice but to use Walmart and Sam's. Because they have a four vial limit, I have to go to both stores, which are right next door to each other.

 

[Andylusion]

not playing your game of isolated idealism, dude. you said it's not right to take away and give to others UNLESS you do it your way from the evil rich to the few % you champion.

have it at man. we all need our windmills to tilt at. i just think it's fucking stupid.

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

Sure, I believe in affordable health care.

The difference is, socialized health care is neither a benefit, nor affordable. How many Canadians have died on waiting lists, after spending their entire lives paying a massive tax-price tag for their care?

Why are so many traveling to pay for care, after spending their entire lives paying for care they never got?

Yes, I'm all for affordable health care. Let's deregulated, de-socialize, and allow the free market to lower the price, and improve the quality of care. I'm all for it.

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

In case you're interested, or know somebody that purchases these products, Walmart made a dirty deal with the producers of insulin. The price you showed is what everybody else charges, or more depending on where you go. Walmart/ Sam's Club charges $24.99 for the exact same thing; same packaging, same vials, same everything. Except there is a little "R" on the outside of the package, and it stand for Walmart's generic brand, which is Reliance.

Of course, Walmart does not make insulin. They buy it in bulk from the producers and get a huge discount. The manufacturer drastically increase the price on all other pharmacies except Sam's Club, because Sam's is a subsidiary of Walmart.

People who don't do the research, or otherwise have prescription coverage don't bother to look around for cheaper prices, are getting ripped off. I had no choice because I don't have coverage, and I pay cash. What it cost me at other places for five vials of insulin was in the area of $325.00 a month. At Walmart, it's $125.00 a month. So I have no choice but to use Walmart and Sam's. Because they have a four vial limit, I have to go to both stores, which are right next door to each other.

Gotcha. So why is this a dirty deal exactly? They have a lower cost, that benefits you, correct?

How is this dirty?

Isn't it all the other places, that didn't make a deal, that are dirty for charging a higher price for the same product?

 

[iceberg]

not playing your game of isolated idealism, dude. you said it's not right to take away and give to others UNLESS you do it your way from the evil rich to the few % you champion.

have it at man. we all need our windmills to tilt at. i just think it's fucking stupid.

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

you "say" a lot of "shit".

the end result is you're in my opinion overly idealistic and seem to hold successful people in disdain and want to ensure the common man is taken care of regardless of the situation or circumstances.

in my opinion, that's bullshit. you get what you are willing to work for in life and if you expect people to hand you stuff, don't bitch if you don't like the handouts. this is oversimplification and not absolute as we do need to care for those who can't take care of themselves.

those who won't i'm not as concerned about.

If the markets were that successful we wouldnt have been bailing it out the last decade plus.

if giving to the poor worked, we'd not have had them since the beginning of time.

we can do this shit all day long, son. doesn't change the fact you just try to normalize extreme situations.

We have been in extreme situations for 12 years. (Actually far longer but we will go with that). When do you think it might end?

Extreme situations never end. Neither do normal ones.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

In case you're interested, or know somebody that purchases these products, Walmart made a dirty deal with the producers of insulin. The price you showed is what everybody else charges, or more depending on where you go. Walmart/ Sam's Club charges $24.99 for the exact same thing; same packaging, same vials, same everything. Except there is a little "R" on the outside of the package, and it stand for Walmart's generic brand, which is Reliance.

Of course, Walmart does not make insulin. They buy it in bulk from the producers and get a huge discount. The manufacturer drastically increase the price on all other pharmacies except Sam's Club, because Sam's is a subsidiary of Walmart.

People who don't do the research, or otherwise have prescription coverage don't bother to look around for cheaper prices, are getting ripped off. I had no choice because I don't have coverage, and I pay cash. What it cost me at other places for five vials of insulin was in the area of $325.00 a month. At Walmart, it's $125.00 a month. So I have no choice but to use Walmart and Sam's. Because they have a four vial limit, I have to go to both stores, which are right next door to each other.

Gotcha. So why is this a dirty deal exactly? They have a lower cost, that benefits you, correct?

How is this dirty?

Isn't it all the other places, that didn't make a deal, that are dirty for charging a higher price for the same product?

No. They sell it at a higher price because they pay way more for it than Walmart. As for myself, the nearest Walmart is 15 miles away. I would rather go to my pharmacy a mile away and buy it there.

It's a dirty deal because it's not really publicized. So people that can't afford the prices at other places may be trying to cut down and not use the necessary amount because they simply can't afford it. That means higher sugar levels for them which decays several organs in your body. They may be suffering needlessly, if not now, later on in life.

When prices started to escalate, I found nothing on the internet. My cousin is a doctor that did research, and she couldn't find the reason for the huge price hikes either. I called the manufacturer, and they only gave me lip service about how the costs to make it were increasing, not telling the the truth as to the real reason why.

One day I asked the pharmacist at my local grocery store. She's the one that told me about Walmart's generic insulin. Walmart insulin? Me? No way. But when it kept going up and I couldn't afford what I needed, I got desperate and tried it out. It was to my surprise it was the same insulin, by the same company I always purchased it from.

I just think it's wrong that government doesn't step in to stop this virtual monopoly, and allow God knows how many people to suffer, if not financially, but physically. For those who live 70 miles away from the nearest Walmart, I think it's unthinkable Americans would have to take an hour drive just to obtain affordable medication. Like I said, they have a four vial limit. I use five a month, and other people use much more.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

You didn't do "research". You furiously googled until you found an agreeable opinion piece. And the reasoning given is obviously stupid, as just as many people are privately insured today as they were then, and this number dwarfs the number of people using Obamacare by a factor of 10. Furthermore, high deductible plans would force more people to pay out of pocket, which would be a downward pressure on the price. On top of all that, the real gouging started on 2014, 5 years after passage of the ACA. What changed? What changed is that they saw a generic alternative was imminent, so they hiked prices for a cash grab. What a piece of crap opinion article. Embarrassing right wing horseshit. You should be embarrassed of yourself.

 

[hadit]

IOW, they put their money to work.

How's that working for them right now? Do you understand that this is why retired people are reluctant to?

So why should they have their money stolen to boost the markets they aren't interested in?

That is why, as people get older, they diversity their investments into safer funds that may pay lower returns but generally don't fluctuate as much. Dude, you really need to learn something about this stuff.

The truly wealthy saw this coming and moved their money to safer havens. That's part of what drives market volitility.

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

And the wise diversify to minimize total risk. There are funds that pay lower returns but are safer. If you don't want the big risks and rewards the market provides, you don't have to invest in it.

You don't but as I have been pointing out, the markets still want to take your money.

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

 

[pknopp]

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

..... You are the dumbest idiot....

Ok, so let's do what you say! Let's do exactly what you want, and let's all share in the Feds socialist policies.

Here we go..... we're going to share in the Fed's policies.

So first, you need an asset.

Let's assume you own a house.

So you sell the asset, the deed to your house, to the Federal Reserve. Then the Federal reserve will.... give you a Capital Reserve Credit, to your account at the Federal Reserve.

Are you better off now?

No you are not. In fact, now you don't own a house, but you have a credit at the Federal Reserve bank.
You still don't have any money from that, because you can't withdraw from your capital reserve account.

So.... Hey, at least you are sharing those super socialist policies at the Fed.

The dumbest things. No matter how many times we explain how the system works, you are still an idiot.

like frasier told woody one day "it means you don't understand it, and you never will".

Like they have done with insulin and the epi-pen?

Free market solutions like that?

Well yes. If we had a free-market, all of that would be much cheaper.

That said, I'm not sure what your issue with insulin is. As I've posted before, you can get a full years supply of insulin, for just $360. Now, even if you worked McDonald's, that would be just one weeks check.

So that market is pretty reasonable.

I'm not even sure about Epi-Pen either. From what I've seen, it's $100 for 32 of them.

If you need 32 of these a year, then I think you have bigger problems.

What is your complaint with either?

My complaint is you didn't see what you claimed to see.

That is a valid concern. I freely admit, I'm not an expert on the subject.

View attachment 313462

View attachment 313463

What am I not seeing?

Massive price increases on EpiPens raise alarm

Regulations on "capitalism" is what you are missing.

Now this is ironic...

So I did some digging into this, just for amusement.

Once again, the socialists blow their own foot off, with socialism, and blame capitalism for their own incompetence.

You stupid brainless fools... This is level of absolute stupidity, is exactly why Trump got elected.

There are two specific reasons Epi-Pens went up in cost.

The cost of Epi-Pens was negotiated by Mylan and Insurance companies. As a result, prices were fairly stable.
Then the government got involved with ObamaCare, and deductibles dramatically increased, and as a result the cost of EpiPens were pushed onto consumers in higher prices, because the insurance companies were no longer involved.

So reason number one.... socialism.

And then the bigger of the two reasons, and most important....

A lack of free-market competition. Now that is fascinating isn't it.

Did you know that epinephrine is not even patented? Did you know that epinephrine has been synthesized since about 1906?

So let me ask you.... how is it that there is only one single supplier of epinephrine auto injectors in the entire US market?

Doesn't that make you curious? Are you not even a tad confused how in a free market, where it costs 10 cents to make a dose, and can be sold for $25, that not a single capitalist in the entire country thought.... "Hey I could make this, and sell it for $10, and make a killing!"?

Does your tiny little left-wing brain, not have the slightest curiosity as to why Capitalists always looking for a profit, have not jumped on this?

Well of course not. Of course you are not smart enough to ask questions, because if you were, you would ask, find out, and then stop being a left-winger.

Because the answer is... Government is why no capitalist has jumped into the epinephrine market. Government has prevented a free-market. And the result has been higher prices, and you idiots crying about Capitalism.

The irony is, you point to Europe, and yet Europe in this specific instance, is actually more capitalist, which is exactly way prices are lower. There are dozens of competitors in Europe, and because of competition in the market, the price is lower.

Reverse Voxsplaining: Drugs vs. Chairs

Let me ask Vox a question: when was the last time that America’s chair industry hiked the price of chairs 400% and suddenly nobody in the country could afford to sit down?

If a chair company decided to charge $300 for their chairs, somebody else would set up a woodshop, sell their chairs for $250, and make a killing – and so on until chairs cost normal-chair-prices again. When Mylan decided to sell EpiPens for $300, in any normal system somebody would have made their own EpiPens and sold them for less. It wouldn’t have been hard. Its active ingredient, epinephrine, is off-patent, was being synthesized as early as 1906, and costs about ten cents per EpiPen-load.

Why don’t they? They keep trying, and the FDA keeps refusing to approve them for human use. For example, in 2009, a group called Teva Pharmaceuticals announced a plan to sell their own EpiPens in the US. The makers of the original EpiPen sued them, saying that they had patented the idea epinephrine-injecting devices. Teva successfully fended off the challenge and brought its product to the FDA, which rejected it because of “certain major deficiencies”. As far as I know, nobody has ever publicly said what the problem was – we can only hope they at least told Teva.
​

You people are the reason we have problems with expensive health care. You people. You people on the left, with all your regulations, and government controls, you are the cause of high prices.

You stupid ignorant fools, are the cause of every single problem in our country.

If this was factual the prices wouldn't have plummeted after people demanded something be done.

 

[pknopp]

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

What are you talking about? The markets are operating exactly how they always have.

I don't understand your claim about how "markets are supposed to work". What do you mean they are supposed to work? Who said they were supposed to operating in some arbitrary manor you made up?

They are working exactly how they have always worked. Values fluctuation. All values have always fluctuated.

Nothing is wrong with the market now, or in the past.

You are just ignorant of how the market works. Your ignorance, does not mean something is wrong. It just means you are ignorant.

Markets were never intended in capitalism to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

Agreed. I oppose all bailouts. Still does not change the fact the markets are working just fine without bailouts.

Then why are we going to bail them out again?

Why are you asking me? I'm a conservative. I'm against bailouts. Conservative pundits are against bailouts. We have been before there was even a Tea Party protesting bailouts.

Why are you asking me this? You are a Democrat, right? Democrats control the House of Representatives, and the House controls the purse of the entire government.

Why don't you talk to your Democrats, and tell them not to provide any money for bailouts. I'll support you in doing that.

I'm not a Democrat. I'm (I). Trump is going to do this. You support and will vote for him again despite your claims.

 

[pknopp]

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

And yet, people get rich off the market all the time.

Because of the Feds Socialist policies.

Not true.

The reason Apple's stock pays a return, has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or socialism.

It has to do with Apple selling products, and making a profit.

My dividends, which I am still even now, collecting even with the market lower... is because Apple is still selling phones and computers, and making a profit.

No socialism is involved in this. The Fed is not bailing out Apple. The Fed is not boasting Apple's profit.

There is zero connection between the value of my stocks in companies like Apple, and their dividends, or their market value. It has to do with the profit of the company, and the value of the company.

Now we all know that the market has declined. And the reason is because investors are considering the possibility that there could be supply chain disruptions, and that this could hinder Apple Sales, and that this could hinder profits.

Again, what part of that equation has anything at all to do with the Federal Reserve? None.

So there is no socialism involved in the growth and profit of the market. You are just ignorant, and spewing nonsense someone told you, without any intellectual thought involved.

Fed injects trillions. The markets go up.....no one worked or sold a thing for this..........until it all pops again and the corporations come clamoring for another bail out.

Well already, your argument is false. Because according to you Fed is injecting trillions now, and the markets went down, and no one worked or sold a thing for this.

So, fail.

Regardless, that's not a failure of capitalism, or the markets... that's a failure of your government control. If the government refuses to bail out Lehman Brothers, then Lehman Brothers just isn't bailed out.

Doesn't matter if someone comes clamoring for another bailout or not. You just don't give it.

Call your Democrats who control the purse of government, and tell them... no bailouts. I'm all for it. I support that.

Trump is leading the call for the bail outs. Bush bailed out the banks.

 

[pknopp]

I said "share" what the socialist policies of the Fed is giving.

you "say" a lot of "shit".

the end result is you're in my opinion overly idealistic and seem to hold successful people in disdain and want to ensure the common man is taken care of regardless of the situation or circumstances.

in my opinion, that's bullshit. you get what you are willing to work for in life and if you expect people to hand you stuff, don't bitch if you don't like the handouts. this is oversimplification and not absolute as we do need to care for those who can't take care of themselves.

those who won't i'm not as concerned about.

If the markets were that successful we wouldnt have been bailing it out the last decade plus.

if giving to the poor worked, we'd not have had them since the beginning of time.

we can do this shit all day long, son. doesn't change the fact you just try to normalize extreme situations.

We have been in extreme situations for 12 years. (Actually far longer but we will go with that). When do you think it might end?

Extreme situations never end. Neither do normal ones.

Right, we are never going to end the socialist policies for the market........

 

[pknopp]

How's that working for them right now? Do you understand that this is why retired people are reluctant to?

So why should they have their money stolen to boost the markets they aren't interested in?

That is why, as people get older, they diversity their investments into safer funds that may pay lower returns but generally don't fluctuate as much. Dude, you really need to learn something about this stuff.

The truly wealthy saw this coming and moved their money to safer havens. That's part of what drives market volitility.

More and more do not trust the markets. They understand it's all bubbles now that will always burst.

The theory of how the markets are supposed to work aren't how they work.

And the wise diversify to minimize total risk. There are funds that pay lower returns but are safer. If you don't want the big risks and rewards the market provides, you don't have to invest in it.

You don't but as I have been pointing out, the markets still want to take your money.

Uhhh, everyone wants to take your money, if you'll give it to them. Notice that in a Capitalist society, you get something, goods or services, in exchange for your money.

You get that in any society so that is a bit of a moot point.