Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[JoeB131]

You lost! Move on to some other failed cause like keeping a job.

Um, sorry, man, Russia is still there.

Russia isn't the USSR.

"History major."

lol

Uh, yeah, actually it is. Look at a map of the Russian Empire, and then look at a map of the USSR. Guess what, they are almost completely the same.


And th is is what you guys who look at the fall of the USSR fail to realize. It wasn't a system that failed, it was an empire that failed.

The fall of the USSR is no more a failure of "communism" than the fall of the British Empire is a failure of "Captialism". Empires fail. Systems adapt.

 

[JoeB131]

Frankly, if we stopped offering Cubans incentives to get into leaky rafts, they'd stop doing it..

"Incentives?"

You mean, like, "freedom?"

Коммунизма, отказ, Джо

No, I mean like big huge bribes, dumbass.

You do know that we offered Cubans huge bribes to come here, right? Unlike Mexicans who come here in even greater numbers, and we can't build fences strong enough to keep them out.

 

[Meathead]

Um, sorry, man, Russia is still there.

Russia isn't the USSR.

"History major."

lol

Uh, yeah, actually it is. Look at a map of the Russian Empire, and then look at a map of the USSR. Guess what, they are almost completely the same.


And th is is what you guys who look at the fall of the USSR fail to realize. It wasn't a system that failed, it was an empire that failed.

The fall of the USSR is no more a failure of "communism" than the fall of the British Empire is a failure of "Captialism". Empires fail. Systems adapt.

As much as you might wish it, Russia is considerably smaller that the USSR. Communism did not adapt, it was discarded. History degree .

 

[JoeB131]

Russia isn't the USSR.

"History major."

lol

Uh, yeah, actually it is. Look at a map of the Russian Empire, and then look at a map of the USSR. Guess what, they are almost completely the same.


And th is is what you guys who look at the fall of the USSR fail to realize. It wasn't a system that failed, it was an empire that failed.

The fall of the USSR is no more a failure of "communism" than the fall of the British Empire is a failure of "Captialism". Empires fail. Systems adapt.

As much as you might wish it, Russia is considerably smaller that the USSR. History degree .

Yeah, what's your fucking point, or did you completely miss it again.

Okay, one more time. The USSR did not fall because, "Communism sucks".

The USSR Fell because Uzbeks and Kazaks and Lithuanians decided they didn't want to be ruled by Russians, and Russians decided they really didn't want to rule them directly. (Although Russia does dominate the economies of these places still.)

But you guys will dance around the ruins of your middle class life style and say, "We won the cold war."

Well, sorry, guy, I look around, see that my generation isn't living as good as my father's generation, and the generation following me has even worse prospects than I have, and I guess I just don't see it. I think what you had was two empires that ground themselves into exhaustion.

In 1980, a PolSci professor said to me, the real threat to the US is not the USSR, it's the Third World.

2013, I'm seeing that as having come pretty much true.

 

[Meathead]

You'd think someone so used to losing would handle it better.

 

[JoeB131]

You'd think someone so used to losing would handle it better.

Wouldn't know, guy, I don't lose. I adapt.

But pointing out that shit, the GOP really, really fucked everything up is hardly losing.

In 2000, we had peace, we had prosperity, we had 3% unemployment, the rich paid their fair share, we had surpluses as far as the eye could see and Americans said, "Yeah, man, let's have more of that!" and voted for Gore.

But then the GOP stole the election, and we got trillion dollar debts, tax giveaways to the rich, wars, two recessions, 10% unemployment when it was all said and done.

And I used to support the GOP. Until I saw that they really, really don't know what they are doing. Or maybe they know what they are doing, and they are total sociopaths. Either way, they can't be trusted.

 

[gipper]

Uh, yeah, actually it is. Look at a map of the Russian Empire, and then look at a map of the USSR. Guess what, they are almost completely the same.


And th is is what you guys who look at the fall of the USSR fail to realize. It wasn't a system that failed, it was an empire that failed.

The fall of the USSR is no more a failure of "communism" than the fall of the British Empire is a failure of "Captialism". Empires fail. Systems adapt.

As much as you might wish it, Russia is considerably smaller that the USSR. History degree .

Yeah, what's your fucking point, or did you completely miss it again.

Okay, one more time. The USSR did not fall because, "Communism sucks".

The USSR Fell because Uzbeks and Kazaks and Lithuanians decided they didn't want to be ruled by Russians, and Russians decided they really didn't want to rule them directly. (Although Russia does dominate the economies of these places still.)

But you guys will dance around the ruins of your middle class life style and say, "We won the cold war."

Well, sorry, guy, I look around, see that my generation isn't living as good as my father's generation, and the generation following me has even worse prospects than I have, and I guess I just don't see it. I think what you had was two empires that ground themselves into exhaustion.

In 1980, a PolSci professor said to me, the real threat to the US is not the USSR, it's the Third World.

2013, I'm seeing that as having come pretty much true.

The USSR failed because communism is an economic system that does not work.

Sadly, America and much of the West resembles the USSR more every day.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The USSR failed because communism is an economic system that does not work.

Sadly, America and much of the West resembles the USSR more every day.

you keep telling yourself that.

Here's the thing. The whole world will continue to go to the entitlement state. Europe already got there a long time ago. Russia never really left.

Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You'd think someone so used to losing would handle it better.

Wouldn't know, guy, I don't lose. I adapt.

But pointing out that shit, the GOP really, really fucked everything up is hardly losing.

In 2000, we had peace, we had prosperity, we had 3% unemployment, the rich paid their fair share, we had surpluses as far as the eye could see and Americans said, "Yeah, man, let's have more of that!" and voted for Gore.

But then the GOP stole the election, and we got trillion dollar debts, tax giveaways to the rich, wars, two recessions, 10% unemployment when it was all said and done.

And I used to support the GOP. Until I saw that they really, really don't know what they are doing. Or maybe they know what they are doing, and they are total sociopaths. Either way, they can't be trusted.

Bush had more votes in Florida than Gore.

Is that what turned you? When the Cubans in Miami voted for Bush because of this

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You lost! Move on to some other failed cause like keeping a job.

Um, sorry, man, Russia is still there.

Russia isn't the USSR.

"History major."

lol

United Soviet States of Russia

 

[JoeB131]

You'd think someone so used to losing would handle it better.

Wouldn't know, guy, I don't lose. I adapt.

But pointing out that shit, the GOP really, really fucked everything up is hardly losing.

In 2000, we had peace, we had prosperity, we had 3% unemployment, the rich paid their fair share, we had surpluses as far as the eye could see and Americans said, "Yeah, man, let's have more of that!" and voted for Gore.

But then the GOP stole the election, and we got trillion dollar debts, tax giveaways to the rich, wars, two recessions, 10% unemployment when it was all said and done.

And I used to support the GOP. Until I saw that they really, really don't know what they are doing. Or maybe they know what they are doing, and they are total sociopaths. Either way, they can't be trusted.

Bush had more votes in Florida than Gore.

Is that what turned you? When the Cubans in Miami voted for Bush because of this

]

No, guy, what turned me is when my ex-boss said he could totally fuck me over despite having seniority because "he didn't haev to deal with a union". because I had run up too many medical bills, and they were trying to get me to quit.

And then when that didn't work, they just fired me and paid me some "Please don't sue us money" before the whole company imploded.

Oh, Gore probably got more votes in Florida, despite the Cubers... But Jeb stole the ballot boxes, so we'll never know.

 

[Meathead]

[

The USSR failed because communism is an economic system that does not work.

Sadly, America and much of the West resembles the USSR more every day.

Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

Ah, the Greek model! Greeks were voting themselves an easy living for years. Now, of course, they're on a street corner with hat in hand looking for alms from their more responsible European cousins.

 

[gipper]

[
Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

And you do know that the entitlement/welfare state is not sustainable...right?

It will ultimately implode. And then, what will we get?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wouldn't know, guy, I don't lose. I adapt.

But pointing out that shit, the GOP really, really fucked everything up is hardly losing.

In 2000, we had peace, we had prosperity, we had 3% unemployment, the rich paid their fair share, we had surpluses as far as the eye could see and Americans said, "Yeah, man, let's have more of that!" and voted for Gore.

But then the GOP stole the election, and we got trillion dollar debts, tax giveaways to the rich, wars, two recessions, 10% unemployment when it was all said and done.

And I used to support the GOP. Until I saw that they really, really don't know what they are doing. Or maybe they know what they are doing, and they are total sociopaths. Either way, they can't be trusted.

Bush had more votes in Florida than Gore.

Is that what turned you? When the Cubans in Miami voted for Bush because of this

]

No, guy, what turned me is when my ex-boss said he could totally fuck me over despite having seniority because "he didn't haev to deal with a union". because I had run up too many medical bills, and they were trying to get me to quit.

And then when that didn't work, they just fired me and paid me some "Please don't sue us money" before the whole company imploded.

Oh, Gore probably got more votes in Florida, despite the Cubers... But Jeb stole the ballot boxes, so we'll never know.

I'm always skeptical about the history of former Republican posters who openly advocate for Communism.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The USSR failed because communism is an economic system that does not work.

Sadly, America and much of the West resembles the USSR more every day.

Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

Ah, the Greek model! Greeks were voting themselves an easy living for years. Now, of course, they're on a street corner with hat in hand looking for alms from their more responsible European cousins.

You mean the ones that screwed them over to start with.

Greece's problem was that it joined the Euro and can't control the value of its own currency.

Has very little do to with their moderate social programs.

Ireland is in exactly the same boat despite doing everything the conservatives suggested.

 

[JoeB131]

Bush had more votes in Florida than Gore.

Is that what turned you? When the Cubans in Miami voted for Bush because of this

]

No, guy, what turned me is when my ex-boss said he could totally fuck me over despite having seniority because "he didn't haev to deal with a union". because I had run up too many medical bills, and they were trying to get me to quit.

And then when that didn't work, they just fired me and paid me some "Please don't sue us money" before the whole company imploded.

Oh, Gore probably got more votes in Florida, despite the Cubers... But Jeb stole the ballot boxes, so we'll never know.

I'm always skeptical about the history of former Republican posters who openly advocate for Communism.

I'm skeptical of people who live though the biggest failure of the last century and then still try to claim they have good ideas.

2008 was an acid test. You guys got deregulation, tax cuts, and so on, and it was a complete disaster.

Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

 

[JoeB131]

Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

And you do know that the entitlement/welfare state is not sustainable...right?

It will ultimately implode. And then, what will we get?

Depends what you mean by "sustainable".

I think what is unsustainable is plutocracy. If you have 1% with 43% of the wealth and 20% with 87% of the wealth and the other 80% are fighting over what little is left, that's unsustainable.

And that's when you get people voting to redistribute.

Here's the thing. 20 years ago, I'd have never voted for a guy like Obama.

Five years ago, despite all that happened, I still voted for McCain.

This time. No problem voting for Obama at all.

 

[Meathead]

No, guy, what turned me is when my ex-boss said he could totally fuck me over despite having seniority because "he didn't haev to deal with a union". because I had run up too many medical bills, and they were trying to get me to quit.

And then when that didn't work, they just fired me and paid me some "Please don't sue us money" before the whole company imploded.

Oh, Gore probably got more votes in Florida, despite the Cubers... But Jeb stole the ballot boxes, so we'll never know.

I'm always skeptical about the history of former Republican posters who openly advocate for Communism.

I'm skeptical of people who live though the biggest failure of the last century and then still try to claim they have good ideas.

The communist parties in Europe are an excellent example. They garnered 15% in the Czech elections last weekend which means idiots like Joe are out there and voting. Whew!

 

[editec]

Um, sorry, man, Russia is still there.

Russia isn't the USSR.

"History major."

lol

Uh, yeah, actually it is. Look at a map of the Russian Empire, and then look at a map of the USSR. Guess what, they are almost completely the same.


And th is is what you guys who look at the fall of the USSR fail to realize. It wasn't a system that failed, it was an empire that failed.

The fall of the USSR is no more a failure of "communism" than the fall of the British Empire is a failure of "Captialism". Empires fail. Systems adapt.

And sometimes, and the former USSR is one example, Empires both fail BECAUSE their system failed.

Which is what happened to the USSR, Joe.


Now obviously that is NOT happening in china, where they have melded the needs of the Chinese Communist elite to the needs of their former CAPITALIST ENEMIES to create the absolute WORST of both worlds.

A system with all the failings of a nation built by capitalist exploitation of the working class AND all the failings of a nation bend under the yoke of pseudo-Communism.

 

[gipper]

Simply put, when people can't get where they want to go through hard work, because someone with more money will always try to cheat them, they will simply vote themselves a living.

And you do know that the entitlement/welfare state is not sustainable...right?

It will ultimately implode. And then, what will we get?

Depends what you mean by "sustainable".

I think what is unsustainable is plutocracy. If you have 1% with 43% of the wealth and 20% with 87% of the wealth and the other 80% are fighting over what little is left, that's unsustainable.

And that's when you get people voting to redistribute.

Here's the thing. 20 years ago, I'd have never voted for a guy like Obama.

Five years ago, despite all that happened, I still voted for McCain.

This time. No problem voting for Obama at all.

Does the word 'sustainable' have multiple meanings? It is not a trick question.

Chris Hedges puts it rather well with this...

Our collapse will take the whole planet with it.

It is more pleasant, I admit, to stand mesmerized in front of our electronic hallucinations. It is easier to check out intellectually. It is more gratifying to imbibe the hedonism and the sickness of the worship of the self and money. It is more comforting to chatter about celebrity gossip and ignore or dismiss what is reality.

Thomas Mann in “The Magic Mountain” and Joseph Roth in “Hotel Savoy” brilliantly chronicled this peculiar state of mind. In Roth’s hotel the first three floors house in luxury the bloated rich, the amoral politicians, the bankers and the business owners. The upper floors are crammed with people who struggle to pay their bills and who are steadily divested of their possessions until they are destitute and cast out. There is no political ideology among decayed ruling elites, despite choreographed debates and elaborate political theater. It is, as it always is at the end, one vast kleptocracy.

Just before World War II, a friend asked Roth, a Jewish intellectual who had fled Nazi Germany for Paris, “Why are you drinking so much?” Roth answered: “Do you think you are going to escape? You too are going to be wiped out.”

I just might take up drinking...a lot of drinking.