Settlements

[Hollie]

RE: Settlements
※→ abi, et al,

Always, it is the opponents that demand the Israelis to bend first, ⇒ to put themselves in a vulnerable and compromising position when dealing with Arab Political Entities who have proven themselves hostile, that have a past pattern of criminal behaviors, and history of actual attacks (not to mention supporting the Arab Palestinians in the conduct activities by Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters) against Israel.

Is stupid and obviously this is what Israel pays millions for to get posted on US forums.

Area C is Palestine.

End the occupation, allow for right of return, hold free and fair elections and let's end this.

(COMMENT)

My opinion is that the foreign witness representative should be arrested and put on trial for perpetrating a fraud concerning the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Oslo II Accords) and falsifying evidence which established Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control). When these criminals are brought to justice and make restitution for the cost incurred by the Israelis, the damage done to property, as well as life insurance proceeds to beneficiaries of the Arab Palestinians due to the deaths associated with the Israeli Administration witnessed by:

The Russian Federation
________________________
The Arab Republic of Egypt
________________________
The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
________________________
The Kingdom of Norway
________________________
The European Union
________________________
​

Once these nations are made to answer for the fraud, and made the appropriate restitution to every single Arab Palestinian that claims this Area "C" territory was stolen from them, then and only then, should Israel considered bids to Settle the Issue. BUT, if these witnesses give evidence that the Accords, signed by Mahmoud Abbas, did give Israel full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C," THEN Mahmoud Abbas must make restitution, and the Arab Palestinian Government must demonstrate when, if ever, Area "C" was under their sovereign control.

The acceptance of the unregulated Right-of-Return (RoR) Issue coupled with demand for "free and fair elections" after the Arab Palestinians successfully alter the demographics in their favor, is a form of a forced suicide demand levied over the Israelis. It is an attempt by the Arab Palestinians to manipulate the outcome that will place the Arabs in Power and dissolve the Jewish National Home under the color of law. The Israelis will do no such thing. The Israelis will not acquiesce to demands that will ultimately destroy the Jewish State; whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed to establishment in Palestine ⇒ of a national home for the Jewish people. Nothing will ever politically induce the Jewish People to walk to the gallows ⇒ that would destroy the sanctuary, safe haven and national home established to avoid this very eventuality. They (in all probability) will never again be forced to "bend the knee."

​

It is the concept behind the active defense from → the tyranny of the

majority → persecuting the Jewish People under color of any law → to willfully deprive
Israel or its people that which make it safe and secure (a Jewish National Home with
defendable borders.​

As part of Customary Law, SINCE when has the Arab Palestinian Government (The Palestinian National Authority, the State of Israel, the unity government, whatever it is today) absolute control over all the territory its claims and the domestic affairs of that same territory, to the exclusion of all external powers, on the principle of non-interference in another country's domestic affairs, and that each state (no matter how large or small) is equal in international law.

Most Respectfully,
R

End the occupation, allow for right of return, hold free and fair elections and let's end this.

Are you suggesting that Hamas or Fatah are going to allow elections?

Lets end your nonsense.

 

[RoccoR]

Settlements
※→ abi, et al,

If that is what the Hostile Arab Palestinians want, the HoAP better hope for a cold day in hell.

RE: Settlements
※→ abi, et al,

Always, it is the opponents that demand the Israelis to bend first, ⇒ to put themselves in a vulnerable and compromising position when dealing with Arab Political Entities who have proven themselves hostile, that have a past pattern of criminal behaviors, and history of actual attacks (not to mention supporting the Arab Palestinians in the conduct activities by Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters) against Israel.

Is stupid and obviously this is what Israel pays millions for to get posted on US forums.

Area C is Palestine.

End the occupation, allow for right of return, hold free and fair elections and let's end this.

(COMMENT)

My opinion is that the foreign witness representative should be arrested and put on trial for perpetrating a fraud concerning the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Oslo II Accords) and falsifying evidence which established Area "C" (full Israeli civil and security control). When these criminals are brought to justice and make restitution for the cost incurred by the Israelis, the damage done to property, as well as life insurance proceeds to beneficiaries of the Arab Palestinians due to the deaths associated with the Israeli Administration witnessed by:

The Russian Federation
________________________
The Arab Republic of Egypt
________________________
The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
________________________
The Kingdom of Norway
________________________
The European Union
________________________
​

Once these nations are made to answer for the fraud, and made the appropriate restitution to every single Arab Palestinian that claims this Area "C" territory was stolen from them, then and only then, should Israel considered bids to Settle the Issue. BUT, if these witnesses give evidence that the Accords, signed by Mahmoud Abbas, did give Israel full Israeli civil and security control over Area "C," THEN Mahmoud Abbas must make restitution, and the Arab Palestinian Government must demonstrate when, if ever, Area "C" was under their sovereign control.

The acceptance of the unregulated Right-of-Return (RoR) Issue coupled with demand for "free and fair elections" after the Arab Palestinians successfully alter the demographics in their favor, is a form of a forced suicide demand levied over the Israelis. It is an attempt by the Arab Palestinians to manipulate the outcome that will place the Arabs in Power and dissolve the Jewish National Home under the color of law. The Israelis will do no such thing. The Israelis will not acquiesce to demands that will ultimately destroy the Jewish State; whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed to establishment in Palestine ⇒ of a national home for the Jewish people. Nothing will ever politically induce the Jewish People to walk to the gallows ⇒ that would destroy the sanctuary, safe haven and national home established to avoid this very eventuality. They (in all probability) will never again be forced to "bend the knee."

​

It is the concept behind the active defense from → the tyranny of the

majority → persecuting the Jewish People under color of any law → to willfully deprive
Israel or its people that which make it safe and secure (a Jewish National Home with
defendable borders.​

As part of Customary Law, SINCE when has the Arab Palestinian Government (The Palestinian National Authority, the State of Israel, the unity government, whatever it is today) absolute control over all the territory its claims and the domestic affairs of that same territory, to the exclusion of all external powers, on the principle of non-interference in another country's domestic affairs, and that each state (no matter how large or small) is equal in international law.

Most Respectfully,
R

End the occupation, allow for right of return, hold free and fair elections and let's end this.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis are not going to actively participate in their own destruction.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[abi]

If that is what the Hostile Arab Palestinians want, the HoAP better hope for a cold day in hell.

Can you stop attempting to dehumanize these people by labeling them as hostile (HoAP) if the truth showed something different that your narrative? I bet not, but:
We need to put the rocket and mortar attacks against Israel in perspective.

 

[teddyearp]

If Jews are not safe, they can leave.

Wow. So if an Arab Palestinian state can not guarantee the safety of its minority citizens and protect them -- the minority has to leave?!

And that minority is not permitted to have an independent nation in order to see to the safety and protection of its own peoples?

Wow.

So abi is actually a racist.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We've had this discussion before, and it's the problem of realistic vs idealistic. YES it would be ideal if what you say could happen. I would be all for it. But there are several points to consider. One is TRUST. There is a helluva lack of it on both sides and justifiably.

So let's even it out and demand the same thing for BOTH sides. If they can not trust one another, then they must be separated from one another. IF Arab Palestine MUST be Jew-free to function, then Israel MUST be Arab- free to function.

Why?
You would expel 1,786,000 or so people, who have lived for generations in what is now Israel so all of Israel is Arab free?

From the Palestinian side - what they see is an erosion of any possible future state with the settlements, and it is pretty far fetched to imagine (or trust) that Israel is going to let them become part of a future Palestinian state. How would you convince them that there WOULD be a contiguous state, irregardless of the settlements?

Simple. You negotiate for a contiguous State and accept any Jews which are in that area. And then you guarantee their safety and their rights. Its easy. Israel has ALREADY done this with the Arabs. If it can be done on the one side then it can be done on the other. Palestine negotiates a contiguous state and Israel negotiates for guarantees of rights and safety for Jews.

In principle I agree. But the settlements increase the tensions. Leave them as they are NOW until a final status is negotiated. And while your at it - mix the populations. Allow non Jews to live with Jews. And encourage the same in Palestinian areas.

Yes, its idealistic. But the alternative is to create two completely ethnically homogeneous states. Which would you prefer to aim for?

My preference would not be the alternative.

Why don't you move to Israel for a year and see what it does to your nerves knowing that an Arab can stab you at any moment.

I suspect the Palestinians feel quite similar not knowing when someone will bust in and take one of their kids in for questioning or shoot a kid for throwing rocks. Works both ways.

rocks can kill dumb ass so throwing them is a crime in most Countries.

 

[teddyearp]

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

Well then with this reasoning, all the Arabs need to leave Israel/Palestine do they not?

After all, you say No Statute of Limitations.

 

[Coyote]

We've had this discussion before, and it's the problem of realistic vs idealistic. YES it would be ideal if what you say could happen. I would be all for it. But there are several points to consider. One is TRUST. There is a helluva lack of it on both sides and justifiably.

So let's even it out and demand the same thing for BOTH sides. If they can not trust one another, then they must be separated from one another. IF Arab Palestine MUST be Jew-free to function, then Israel MUST be Arab- free to function.

Why?
You would expel 1,786,000 or so people, who have lived for generations in what is now Israel so all of Israel is Arab free?

From the Palestinian side - what they see is an erosion of any possible future state with the settlements, and it is pretty far fetched to imagine (or trust) that Israel is going to let them become part of a future Palestinian state. How would you convince them that there WOULD be a contiguous state, irregardless of the settlements?

Simple. You negotiate for a contiguous State and accept any Jews which are in that area. And then you guarantee their safety and their rights. Its easy. Israel has ALREADY done this with the Arabs. If it can be done on the one side then it can be done on the other. Palestine negotiates a contiguous state and Israel negotiates for guarantees of rights and safety for Jews.

In principle I agree. But the settlements increase the tensions. Leave them as they are NOW until a final status is negotiated. And while your at it - mix the populations. Allow non Jews to live with Jews. And encourage the same in Palestinian areas.

Yes, its idealistic. But the alternative is to create two completely ethnically homogeneous states. Which would you prefer to aim for?

My preference would not be the alternative.

Why don't you move to Israel for a year and see what it does to your nerves knowing that an Arab can stab you at any moment.

I suspect the Palestinians feel quite similar not knowing when someone will bust in and take one of their kids in for questioning or shoot a kid for throwing rocks. Works both ways.

rocks can kill dumb ass so throwing them is a crime in most Countries.

Only Palestinian rock throwers get shot for it. Jewish rock throwers don't. (dumb ass).

 

[Shusha]

Only Palestinian rock throwers get shot for it. Jewish rock throwers don't. (dumb ass).

That seems to be a rather sweeping statement. I haven't been able to find any statistics on this sort of thing, nor comparisons of the circumstances. There are ~5000 incidents of stone-throwing annually in Israel. In only a very small percentage of them is lethal force used as a response. I would hazard a guess that there might be very different circumstances in those cases.

 

[abi]

In only a very small percentage of them is lethal force used as a response.

That seems excessive.

And how many zionist kids get locked up and tortured like Palestinian kids? I chose a Jewish source again for you:
UN: Palestinian children tortured, used as human shields by Israel

Gut Shabbos

 

[teddyearp]

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

Well then with this reasoning, all the Arabs need to leave Israel/Palestine do they not?

After all, you say No Statute of Limitations.

abi no response?

 

[teddyearp]

I have mixed feelings about the Jewish settlements. On one hand, it could be considered "poking the bear", but on the other hand, when did they start? And why?

This is going from memory, so . . . . After the '67 war, Israel gained possession(?) of the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt, respectively. But they really didn't do anything with them. The Palestinians then decided to cause Jordan a heap of trouble with Black September around 1970. When that didn't go their way, they decided to murder some Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. Bad, bad, bad. Since the Olympics are supposed to be a peaceful gathering. It was after that that the 'settlements' were started. Since then, the way I have seen it is that anytime the Palestinians commit random acts of violence, Israel retaliates and then also builds some more settlements. They are trying to send a message. Quit the violence and create your peaceful co-existent state already! Otherwise, they'll just keep building more and more until you have nothing left.

Oh, and nobody seems to talk about the settlements that Israel builds for their Arab population outside of the West Bank do they?

 

[Shusha]

Also, no one likes to talk about the illegal settlements Arab Palestinians build in Area C.

 

[Shusha]

Or about the confounding factors growing economies and increase in population and the inherent conflict between urbanization and traditional shepherding cultures.

 

[teddyearp]

Also, no one likes to talk about the illegal settlements Arab Palestinians build in Area C.

True that.

 

[teddyearp]

Or about the confounding factors growing economies and increase in population and the inherent conflict between urbanization and traditional shepherding cultures.

Is part of this referring to the (maybe) Bedouin settlement just east of Jerusalem along hwy 1?

You live in Canada, right? Have you ever seen that dilapidated tent and shack town there?

Its a real dump and eyesore. Hope they do get rid of it.

 

[abi]

abi no response?

The question makes no sense.

 

[teddyearp]

abi no response?

The question makes no sense.

How does it not make sense? You said:

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

To which I replied:

Well then with this reasoning, all the Arabs need to leave Israel/Palestine do they not?

After all, you say No Statute of Limitations.

Are you denying that Israel was taken by the invading Arab Muslim armies around 700-800?

 

[abi]

Are you denying that Israel was taken by the invading Arab Muslim armies around 700-800?

Slow down, we are talking international law. None of it was applicable centuries ago. I just realized you don't even understand the discussion.

 

[teddyearp]

abi, your selective application of principals are quite comical.

 

[abi]

abi, your selective application of principals are quite comical.

Explain, I am talking current international law and you are bringing up beliefs about centuries ago.