Shrink the Rich; Not Government

[georgephillip]

AVG-JOE:

It is cool, to say the least.

I think the internet is the most recent example of that age old axiom I probably quote far too often.

For thousands of years before anyone coined the word "socialism", all governments' prime obligation has been to socialize cost and privatize profit.

From the Left perspective, Universal fiber-optic internet from Maine to Maui has already been paid for; however, that probably wouldn't leave enough money left over for any billionaires.

Do you ever worry that capitalism, particularly state capitalism of which the Pentagon is a prime example, might be a threat to the survival of the specie?

 

[daveman]

Quantum:

How much do you know about lightning?

"It’s a big country, we have 300M people and every day one of them is struck by lightning but only one in 5 of those people is killed.

"We generate about 240 'luckiest people on earth' every year so it shouldn’t be too surprising to you that we still generate some winners in the great game of Capitalism, not matter how much the odds are stacked against you..."

Phil is an idiot.

 

[AVG-JOE]

AVG-JOE:

It is cool, to say the least.

I think the internet is the most recent example of that age old axiom I probably quote far too often.

For thousands of years before anyone coined the word "socialism", all governments' prime obligation has been to socialize cost and privatize profit.

From the Left perspective, Universal fiber-optic internet from Maine to Maui has already been paid for; however, that probably wouldn't leave enough money left over for any billionaires.

Do you ever worry that capitalism, particularly state capitalism of which the Pentagon is a prime example, might be a threat to the survival of the specie?

Only if someone gets rich enough to detonate a nuke so they don't have to share or politically powerful enough to use a nuke try to make someone else share..... and even under those circumstances, I give us a 70 / 30 shot at success.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/146533-holy-crap-on-a-cracker.html#post3092586

 

[georgephillip]

Indeed. I like pointing out to those who demonize BIGOIL that government makes more money on a gallon of gas than BIGOIL does.

Are you suggesting those serving the Empire in Afghanistan and Iraq volunteer their time or should we send the bill for their service to BIGOIL?

How about the US Sixth Fleet?

Shell or Exxon-Mobile?

I dunno about you, but I sure am enjoying all this $1.25/gallon gas we're making with the Iraqi oil we took over.


Oh, wait...

Did you not get Rummy's memo?

All the Iraqi oil we took over is paying for our invasion and occupation. I'm sure your children and their children and theirs will be glad to hear that.

I'm not really current on the cost of gasoline today since I haven't been able to afford a car since "93, AND, yes, I blame Dick, Rummy, Dubya, Bubba and Barry at least as much as myself.

 

[daveman]

Are you suggesting those serving the Empire in Afghanistan and Iraq volunteer their time or should we send the bill for their service to BIGOIL?

How about the US Sixth Fleet?

Shell or Exxon-Mobile?

I dunno about you, but I sure am enjoying all this $1.25/gallon gas we're making with the Iraqi oil we took over.


Oh, wait...

Did you not get Rummy's memo?

All the Iraqi oil we took over is paying for our invasion and occupation. I'm sure your children and their children and theirs will be glad to hear that.

Well, since we're not getting any oil to speak of out of Iraq, it looks like the war wasn't for oil, then, was it?

But, hey -- you just keep letting protest signs and bumper stickers do your thinking for you.

I'm not really current on the cost of gasoline today since I haven't been able to afford a car since "93, AND, yes, I blame Dick, Rummy, Dubya, Bubba and Barry at least as much as myself.

So...you're a loser, and it's a bunch of politicians' fault.

I'd tell you to grow up, but if it hasn't happened by now, it's not going to.

 

[georgephillip]

Quantum:

How much do you know about lightning?

"It’s a big country, we have 300M people and every day one of them is struck by lightning but only one in 5 of those people is killed.

"We generate about 240 'luckiest people on earth' every year so it shouldn’t be too surprising to you that we still generate some winners in the great game of Capitalism, not matter how much the odds are stacked against you..."

Phil is an idiot.

Possibly.

This is from his most recent (12/15/10) newsletter:

"Despite the Fed buying over 1/3 of everything that goes up for auction, the yield on 10-year TBills has shot up to 3.5%, that is 40% HIGHER than it was when The Bernank announced his brilliant QE2 plan at the last Fed meeting in November.

"That’s a national crisis for a government that borrows $140Bn a month to service a $15Tn debt! ???

"Of course the pain filters right on down to the local level too as spreads on Illinois 10-year notes widened from 1.60 to 1.90 since Nov 1st and California’s general obligation bond spreads jumped 30%, from 0.97 to 1.30."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Getting rich in this country also involves the willingness to exploit the labor of others and using some of your riches to bribe government into legislating favorable tax codes and other regulations.

Bill Gates didn't get rich in a vacuum.

He did get rich through exploitation of government's prime directive to socialize cost and privatize profit.

The government subsidized Microsoft? When did they do that, before or after the bogus anti trust lawsuit?

How much less would Microsoft and Bill be worth if the Pentagon, i.e., the taxpayers, had not developed the internet?

There's also the tax bias favoring debt over equity investing that both Republicans AND Democrats in DC have been inflicting on this country since the mid 70s.

Bill is a real smart guy; however, had he tried to start Microsoft as a non-profit, I'm not sure Wall Street would have responded as positively to his genius.

The Pentagon did not develop the Internet, CERN did. DARP formalized TCP/IP. If you want to claim that something happened you should at least get the facts in your story correct, it makes your wild conspiracies more believable if you root them in the real world.

By the way, I was using MS-DOS a long time before I had access to the Internet, or even bulletin boards.

 

[hortysir]

You apparently think the richest 1% of US earners actually deserve 25% of total income?

Is that because they work so hard?

Where did they get their money?
Please provide linked evidence in your reply.

 

[SuMar]

Can you define "over tax?"

It's pretty self explanatory. I'm for flat tax across the board...The libs, however, want to tack on a higher percentage to the wealthy.

 

[georgephillip]

So you want to add another third of the work force to the unemployment line?

I don't think requiring the rich to pay the same percentage of their income in taxes as their secretaries and cooks will add another third of the workforce to the unemployment line.

Do you?

You seem to think that rich people just bury their money in the back yard.

They don't. It's invested. It's in the market. It's in bonds. It's all over the place. Hell, even in a savings account, it's helping other people.

YOU want to take that away, because you're greedy, envious, and stupid.

In reality (something you're obviously not living within) the rich today are investing outside their backyards in "harder" currencies than the US dollar, i. e., in "economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals."

Professor Michael Hudson explains:

"Second, Obama’s Republican act (I hate to call it a compromise) 'frees' income for the wealthiest classes to send abroad, to economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals.

"This paves the way for a foreign-exchange crisis.

"Such crises traditionally fall in the autumn – and as the 2012 election draws near, it will be attributed to 'uncertainty' if voters do not throw the Democrats out.

"So to 'save the dollar' the Republicans will propose to replace progressive income taxation with a uniform flat tax (the old Steve Forbes plan) falling on wage earners, not on wealth or on finance, insurance or real estate (FIRE sector) income.

"A VAT will be added as an excise tax to push up consumer prices."

I'm sure your superiors will explain all this to your full satisfaction should it come to pass.

Slave.

 

[georgephillip]

All it takes to get rich in this country is the willingness to work for money. I personally chose to work for, and enjoy, other things in life, so I do not begrudge anyone who is put in the effort the fruit of his labor.

Getting rich in this country also involves the willingness to exploit the labor of others and using some of your riches to bribe government into legislating favorable tax codes and other regulations.

Bill Gates didn't get rich in a vacuum.

He did get rich through exploitation of government's prime directive to socialize cost and privatize profit.

Come on man. I worked my ass off all my life. No one forces anyone to work at anything they did not want to.

Based on what you've posted you've done everything right.

How will you feel if once the richest 2% of Americans offshore enough of their income into "harder" currencies than the US dollar the Fed cranks up the printing presses to monetize our debt overhang, thereby turning every $10 bill you've slaved for into a $5 bill.

Or worse?

 

[georgephillip]

Does every dollar vote? Or does every person?

Because I make 6 figures, is my vote counted more than your minimum wage salary from Burger King?

Idiot

Does your 6 figure chump change ballot effect the same change as Warren Buffett's or the Koch brothers?

Slave.

Slave?

Do you prefer the term "chattel?"

 

[georgephillip]

No. It would still be egregious.

The government should never take that high of your income at any level. It's offensive.

Offensive to Goldman Sachs or Ralph Nader?

Offensive to me.

Do you find it offensive that the richest 10,000 Americans continue to increase their wealth as the rest of the world's population is sold austerity as the solution to the debt overhang the rich profit from?

 

[mudwhistle]

Offensive to Goldman Sachs or Ralph Nader?

Offensive to me.

Do you find it offensive that the richest 10,000 Americans continue to increase their wealth as the rest of the world's population is sold austerity as the solution to the debt overhang the rich profit from?

No it's not offensive. What difference is it to you anyway? All this class-warfare won't change that. Do you think that raising taxes is gonna change all of that?? If you do you're a fool.

I mean really. In every society there is always gonna be those who have and those who have not. The value of any society is whether you have large numbers of those who can live comfortably or not. In Mexico you basically have two classes. The rich and the poor. There is little in between. Here at least a majority of us can live quality lives and not have to worry about stealing to prevent starvation.

Ever wonder why folks in 3rd world countries have no compunction to breaking our immigration laws? It's because they were born into a society where you had to break the rules in order to survive. Desperation gives you no choice.

Most Americans have never experienced real hunger. We haven't been that way since the 50s but for some strange reason our universities are breeding a pervasive attitude that this country is evil just because there are so many of us who can afford to live well.

Why is this???

Well that's easy; It's because the kids coming out of these liberal institutions have never experienced real hardship yet they swallow the examples presented to them by the elitists in this country hook, line, and sinker.

I fail to see why they're so wrapped around the axle about the rich when many of them are rich themselves or have never been poor. Skipping meals is not starvation. Try going a week without eating like I have. That will open your eyes for sure.

It really tickles me when some millionaire in congress or in Hollywood starts bitching about the rich not paying enough taxes. They're just repeating a popular mantra never thinking of the consequences their silly rhetoric would have on their personal fortunes if it were equally applied to them. Trust me....it will never happen. They may peal off a few bucks to dissuade their guilt but it will never effect them as long as they can pay their lawyer to shelter their assets. On the other hand the person that's living on the edge will always be made to suffer. The person that makes under half a million but is in a state where the value of his or her assets does not exceed their debt. These are the folks that well be hurt the most. Not the extremely wealthy.

 

[daveman]

Quantum:

How much do you know about lightning?

"It’s a big country, we have 300M people and every day one of them is struck by lightning but only one in 5 of those people is killed.

"We generate about 240 'luckiest people on earth' every year so it shouldn’t be too surprising to you that we still generate some winners in the great game of Capitalism, not matter how much the odds are stacked against you..."

Phil is an idiot.

Possibly.

This is from his most recent (12/15/10) newsletter:

"Despite the Fed buying over 1/3 of everything that goes up for auction, the yield on 10-year TBills has shot up to 3.5%, that is 40% HIGHER than it was when The Bernank announced his brilliant QE2 plan at the last Fed meeting in November.

"That’s a national crisis for a government that borrows $140Bn a month to service a $15Tn debt! ???

"Of course the pain filters right on down to the local level too as spreads on Illinois 10-year notes widened from 1.60 to 1.90 since Nov 1st and California’s general obligation bond spreads jumped 30%, from 0.97 to 1.30."

If you oppose the debt, perhaps you should stop supporting unsustainable government spending.

 

[daveman]

I don't think requiring the rich to pay the same percentage of their income in taxes as their secretaries and cooks will add another third of the workforce to the unemployment line.

Do you?

You seem to think that rich people just bury their money in the back yard.

They don't. It's invested. It's in the market. It's in bonds. It's all over the place. Hell, even in a savings account, it's helping other people.

YOU want to take that away, because you're greedy, envious, and stupid.

In reality (something you're obviously not living within) the rich today are investing outside their backyards in "harder" currencies than the US dollar, i. e., in "economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals."

Professor Michael Hudson explains:

"Second, Obama’s Republican act (I hate to call it a compromise) 'frees' income for the wealthiest classes to send abroad, to economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals.

"This paves the way for a foreign-exchange crisis.

"Such crises traditionally fall in the autumn – and as the 2012 election draws near, it will be attributed to 'uncertainty' if voters do not throw the Democrats out.

"So to 'save the dollar' the Republicans will propose to replace progressive income taxation with a uniform flat tax (the old Steve Forbes plan) falling on wage earners, not on wealth or on finance, insurance or real estate (FIRE sector) income.

"A VAT will be added as an excise tax to push up consumer prices."

I'm sure your superiors will explain all this to your full satisfaction should it come to pass.

Slave.

And do you know whose fault it is that people are moving their money offshore?

Yours. You and other idiots who support and enact legislation hostile to business and punishing the successful.

If you want more money, get off your ass and get to work. Don't insist the government steal if for you.

 

[Bern80]

Getting rich in this country also involves the willingness to exploit the labor of others and using some of your riches to bribe government into legislating favorable tax codes and other regulations.

Bill Gates didn't get rich in a vacuum.

He did get rich through exploitation of government's prime directive to socialize cost and privatize profit.

Come on man. I worked my ass off all my life. No one forces anyone to work at anything they did not want to.

Based on what you've posted you've done everything right.

How will you feel if once the richest 2% of Americans offshore enough of their income into "harder" currencies than the US dollar the Fed cranks up the printing presses to monetize our debt overhang, thereby turning every $10 bill you've slaved for into a $5 bill.

Or worse?

That's their business. Not yours.

You still don't fucking get it. It's absolutely amazing that a group of people all of us would like to be in, is demonized to such an extent.

 

[georgephillip]

You seem to think that rich people just bury their money in the back yard.

They don't. It's invested. It's in the market. It's in bonds. It's all over the place. Hell, even in a savings account, it's helping other people.

YOU want to take that away, because you're greedy, envious, and stupid.

In reality (something you're obviously not living within) the rich today are investing outside their backyards in "harder" currencies than the US dollar, i. e., in "economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals."

Professor Michael Hudson explains:

"Second, Obama’s Republican act (I hate to call it a compromise) 'frees' income for the wealthiest classes to send abroad, to economies not yet wrecked by neoliberals.

"This paves the way for a foreign-exchange crisis.

"Such crises traditionally fall in the autumn – and as the 2012 election draws near, it will be attributed to 'uncertainty' if voters do not throw the Democrats out.

"So to 'save the dollar' the Republicans will propose to replace progressive income taxation with a uniform flat tax (the old Steve Forbes plan) falling on wage earners, not on wealth or on finance, insurance or real estate (FIRE sector) income.

"A VAT will be added as an excise tax to push up consumer prices."

I'm sure your superiors will explain all this to your full satisfaction should it come to pass.

Slave.

And do you know whose fault it is that people are moving their money offshore?

Yours. You and other idiots who support and enact legislation hostile to business and punishing the successful.

If you want more money, get off your ass and get to work. Don't insist the government steal if for you.

So it's my fault people are moving their money offshore?

I thought it had something to do with comparative wage scales in the US versus Mexico or China.

Give me an example of legislation hostile to business I've supported, and then explain why I pay taxes at a 30% rate while the richest 10,000 Americans pay at about 20%.

That 10% difference in tax rates is the best example I've seen of government stealing money from those who work and giving it to those who invest.

 

[georgephillip]

Come on man. I worked my ass off all my life. No one forces anyone to work at anything they did not want to.

Based on what you've posted you've done everything right.

How will you feel if once the richest 2% of Americans offshore enough of their income into "harder" currencies than the US dollar the Fed cranks up the printing presses to monetize our debt overhang, thereby turning every $10 bill you've slaved for into a $5 bill.

Or worse?

That's their business. Not yours.

You still don't fucking get it. It's absolutely amazing that a group of people all of us would like to be in, is demonized to such an extent.

How's the US middle class fared since the last Ronny moved into the White House?

You do understand the economic gains seen by the richest Americans since the mid-70s have come at the expense of the US middle class?

PS: Not everybody wants to be rich, but ALL the slaves do.

 

[georgephillip]

Offensive to me.

Do you find it offensive that the richest 10,000 Americans continue to increase their wealth as the rest of the world's population is sold austerity as the solution to the debt overhang the rich profit from?

No it's not offensive. What difference is it to you anyway? All this class-warfare won't change that. Do you think that raising taxes is gonna change all of that?? If you do you're a fool.

I mean really. In every society there is always gonna be those who have and those who have not. The value of any society is whether you have large numbers of those who can live comfortably or not. In Mexico you basically have two classes. The rich and the poor. There is little in between. Here at least a majority of us can live quality lives and not have to worry about stealing to prevent starvation.

Ever wonder why folks in 3rd world countries have no compunction to breaking our immigration laws? It's because they were born into a society where you had to break the rules in order to survive. Desperation gives you no choice.

Most Americans have never experienced real hunger. We haven't been that way since the 50s but for some strange reason our universities are breeding a pervasive attitude that this country is evil just because there are so many of us who can afford to live well.

Why is this???

Well that's easy; It's because the kids coming out of these liberal institutions have never experienced real hardship yet they swallow the examples presented to them by the elitists in this country hook, line, and sinker.

I fail to see why they're so wrapped around the axle about the rich when many of them are rich themselves or have never been poor. Skipping meals is not starvation. Try going a week without eating like I have. That will open your eyes for sure.

It really tickles me when some millionaire in congress or in Hollywood starts bitching about the rich not paying enough taxes. They're just repeating a popular mantra never thinking of the consequences their silly rhetoric would have on their personal fortunes if it were equally applied to them. Trust me....it will never happen. They may peal off a few bucks to dissuade their guilt but it will never effect them as long as they can pay their lawyer to shelter their assets. On the other hand the person that's living on the edge will always be made to suffer. The person that makes under half a million but is in a state where the value of his or her assets does not exceed their debt. These are the folks that well be hurt the most. Not the extremely wealthy.

Did you find the $13trillion Wall Street bail-out offensive?

What do you think will happen next spring if WikiLeaks FLUSHES Bank of America and/or JP Morgan into the same sewer Enron disappeared into?

While I believe you're correct about most Americans having never experienced hunger, statistics show rising demand for food stamps and food handouts. The American middle class is being told to tighten their belts while the richest 10,000 (0.01%) of the US population continues to prosper at the expense of the middle.

Finally, the way tax brackets are currently drawn, the truly rich will continue to deflect most of the tax pain onto those making $250,000 to $500,000 per year.

It's hard to see how voting for a Republican OR a Democrat will change that.