So, why do I find myself on the side of the Democrats, against many of the Republicans, and obama?

[hipeter924]

I've been against Free Trade since it's inception.................Since NAFTA and the deals with the WTO under Bush as well.............

That has never changed and for nearly 2 decades I've been arguing against both sides of this equation irregardless of party...........

I've always said don't fix something if it isn't broken...............The way we handled trade deals with foreign countries with the ratification on the Senate worked for over 200 years, so why the need for the change................

Of course those against me site fluctuations over time to show it not working, but on average it did work............

Trade agreements with countries that offer the american people no financial incentives to give them free trade, aka they don't have no freaking money anyway, can only drain currency circulation in our country................It puts money there instead of here, and lines the pockets of corporations who have left this country for lower labor costs and regulations.....................In the past, before all of the Free Trade they could expect tariffs on their products coming back in making it less desirable to leave, thus hopefully saving jobs here.............

The flip side is our products will cost more here as a result................but the loss of jobs make that immaterial when the wage standards here aren't higher due to better paying manufacturing jobs.

Well from what I have read, the manufacturing jobs will disappear, as Americans will be forced to compete with low wages in Asian countries, and the TPP will make it easier for factories to relocate and sack their workers.

 

[kaz]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

 

[occupied]

I've been against Free Trade since it's inception.................Since NAFTA and the deals with the WTO under Bush as well.............

That has never changed and for nearly 2 decades I've been arguing against both sides of this equation irregardless of party...........

I've always said don't fix something if it isn't broken...............The way we handled trade deals with foreign countries with the ratification on the Senate worked for over 200 years, so why the need for the change................

Of course those against me site fluctuations over time to show it not working, but on average it did work............

Trade agreements with countries that offer the american people no financial incentives to give them free trade, aka they don't have no freaking money anyway, can only drain currency circulation in our country................It puts money there instead of here, and lines the pockets of corporations who have left this country for lower labor costs and regulations.....................In the past, before all of the Free Trade they could expect tariffs on their products coming back in making it less desirable to leave, thus hopefully saving jobs here.............

The flip side is our products will cost more here as a result................but the loss of jobs make that immaterial when the wage standards here aren't higher due to better paying manufacturing jobs.

The republican refrain prior to 2008 was that protectionism is bad, free flow of international commerce must be our nation's policy. Haven't been hearing that one in a while. Probably have a hard time finding anyone who would admit ever saying that.

 

[NLT]

The reason the democrats are against it is because of union pressure, why the cons are for it is because of pressure from the chamber of commerce. It is really that simple. Obama wants it to add to his so called legacy.

 

[occupied]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

 

[eagle1462010]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Our manufacturing has been dying since it's inception in the 90's.

While the competitive edge goes to lower standards in the 3rd world, and we would still lose jobs..................even with tariffs................but not as many and not so dramatic..............................

What did Mexico have to offer in monetary terms to the United States considering they are poor as dirt to begin with................................

The answer is cheap labor shipped across the border to hit the shelves at Walmart.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

 

[prison/con.net]

I doubt that it's good. Our economic base has certainly fallen off because of it, and badly, too

 

[hipeter924]

The reason the democrats are against it is because of union pressure, why the cons are for it is because of pressure from the chamber of commerce. It is really that simple. Obama wants it to add to his so called legacy.

His legacy will be another Enron, and contributing to the death of the US Postal Service, as well as privatizing everything that they can lay their hands on : Will TPP Kill the Post Office Dave Johnson

 

[kaz]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

 

[kaz]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Our manufacturing has been dying since it's inception in the 90's.

While the competitive edge goes to lower standards in the 3rd world, and we would still lose jobs..................even with tariffs................but not as many and not so dramatic..............................

What did Mexico have to offer in monetary terms to the United States considering they are poor as dirt to begin with................................

The answer is cheap labor shipped across the border to hit the shelves at Walmart.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

Yes, keeping prices artificially high for consumers is great for our economy, I see your point.

If you care about manufacturing here, the thing you should care the most about are runaway government regulations and taxes that drive companies offshore artificially. The ones who go because it makes economic sense should be left alone

 

[occupied]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

It's help keep wages flat since it's inception, what good is a nickel off toilet paper if you can't retire or send your kids to college?

 

[kaz]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Big business said "we want this thing so support Obama" and they just did and somehow do not feel any shame about it after years of blanket obstructionism. We live in a plutocracy and republicans are it's most loyal foot soldiers. Welcome to reality.

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

 

[hipeter924]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

As well as wages stagnant, domestic growth low, and jobs offshore.

There is no such thing as a 'great trade deal', everything comes with a catch, and most 'free trade deals' contain exemptions and special provisions for certain companies and sectors i.e. like banning apples from x country entering into y country.

They are not 'free trade deals', if by free trade you are talking about a deal that removes all tarrifs and makes trade easier between countries, as the exemptions and special provisions keep the status quo on some goods and services.

 

[bripat9643]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Only the establishment Republicans are for it because their corporate backers want cheap workers.

 

[kaz]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

It's help keep wages flat since it's inception, what good is a nickel off toilet paper if you can't retire or send your kids to college?

First: Those of us who run corporations are just flat out smarter than you, we don't follow your stupid government for all rules. There are ways around every rule and we always find them. We don't make stupid business decisions just because you want us to.

Second: The field of economics says the opposite of what you are saying. How is it that you know exactly that the field of economics is wrong? Is it your giant brain that has done millions of calculations on the subject and found economics to be wrong? Or are you just parroting leftist politicians? I'm thinking the latter.

Have you ever noticed that big government liberal lawyers actually benefit from the lie they know more than economists about the economy? Does either of those bother you? That they went to law school, not business school, or that the hysterical fear they fill you with is self serving? Do either of those bother you at all? I'm thinking no

 

[eagle1462010]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Our manufacturing has been dying since it's inception in the 90's.

While the competitive edge goes to lower standards in the 3rd world, and we would still lose jobs..................even with tariffs................but not as many and not so dramatic..............................

What did Mexico have to offer in monetary terms to the United States considering they are poor as dirt to begin with................................

The answer is cheap labor shipped across the border to hit the shelves at Walmart.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

Yes, keeping prices artificially high for consumers is great for our economy, I see your point.

If you care about manufacturing here, the thing you should care the most about are runaway government regulations and taxes that drive companies offshore artificially. The ones who go because it makes economic sense should be left alone

I have stated time and time again that protectionism is a two edged sword............to much protection then you get higher prices and they offset the savings of jobs...........too little and you outsource your jobs................

Regulations are a different subject altogether and I've long complained about them as well................I quote this site all the time.........

Ten Thousand Commandments

Which quote the side of the equation you are referring to and drive more jobs out of the country................

Tariffs were designed, via the constitution, to raise money for Federal operation and to protect American interests on jobs...........Free Trade nullifies that obligation, and countries that have unfair advantage as they don't play by the same set of rules get rewarded for not having the same standards...................and therefore should get hit with tariffs to offset part of the equation................

 

[kaz]

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

As well as wages stagnant, domestic growth low, and jobs offshore[/QUOTE]

I see, so NAFTA is the only thing that has happened in our economy the last twenty years, we can attribute everything that happened in the economy solely to that.

And I'll give you the same opportunity as occupied. You know better than the field of economics about economics ... how?

 

[PredFan]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Big business said "we want this thing so support Obama" and they just did and somehow do not feel any shame about it after years of blanket obstructionism. We live in a plutocracy and republicans are it's most loyal foot soldiers. Welcome to reality.

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

Well, I've learned that once you lefties have made up your minds on a subject you cannot be swayed. You believe that I'm doing it because obama wants it. It is unlikely that if be able to convince you otherwise. But I'm bored so I will give it a try anyway.

When it first came up, I listened to Rand Paul talk about it and I agreed that I didn't like giving ANY POTUS that much power, no matter if it was for a good reason or not. I'm not an economist, so I researched the TPP from as unbiased a source as I could find. IMO this would not be good for the economy or for jobs.

The fact that Obama was for it was only icing on the cake.

 

[eagle1462010]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Only the establishment Republicans are for it because their corporate backers want cheap workers.

Which is the same reason Rhino's like McCain say amnesty from time to time....................

It's not about securing the border, it's about scratching the backs of their political supporters to ensure higher corporation gains........via cheap illegal labor or reduced wages for blue collar workers here at home.

 

[occupied]

Big business said "we want this thing so support Obama" and they just did and somehow do not feel any shame about it after years of blanket obstructionism. We live in a plutocracy and republicans are it's most loyal foot soldiers. Welcome to reality.

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.