So, why do I find myself on the side of the Democrats, against many of the Republicans, and obama?

[kaz]

I have stated time and time again that protectionism is a two edged sword............to much protection then you get higher prices and they offset the savings of jobs...........too little and you outsource your jobs................

Nonsense. First, you should consider like the libs that you are directly contradicting the field of economics.

Now it is true there are winners and losers in free trade, but economics says the more the better as a whole. We don't have blacksmiths anymore either. Some will have to be retrained. Some companies will lose. But more companies will win and more jobs will be created than lost. You know what economics also says? Having our borders open even if other borders are closed is better than having our borders closed.

Here are a few things you are not factoring

- It's not a zero sum game. Lower prices mean consumers pay lower prices, they spend the money they save on something else
- Corporations that offshore save money and have more money to fund new projects or return it to their owners, the shareholders
- Foreign corporations are offshoring, which puts ours at a disadvantage
- Our government is actually driving companies offshore with taxes and regulations, shouldn't you start there rather than punishing companies who are trying to be more efficient?

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.

Supporting free trade is one thing. Support something Obama calls "free trade" is another. I wouldn't support any bill that the public didn't get to see before Congress voted on it. The fact that they want to hide the details is all the reason I need to say "no." Republicans were elected partly to end this practice of shoving bills through Congress before the public can determine whether they like it or not.

 

[hipeter924]

Big business said "we want this thing so support Obama" and they just did and somehow do not feel any shame about it after years of blanket obstructionism. We live in a plutocracy and republicans are it's most loyal foot soldiers. Welcome to reality.

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

Not true. 'Big government' as you term it is a product of corporations, as much as it is by popular vote. The two trade deals will clearly regulate and enforce provisions that monopolize the market and only favor a chosen few companies.*

And as for 'high prices', you will get a lot of those price hikes when the two trade deals go into effect, starting with electricity, healthcare, and education.

*High tech firms will leave America in droves the moment that TPP and TTIP are signed, as the draconian provisions will bar them from operating.

 

[Manonthestreet]

really quite simple select govt spying on the nation is useful in discovering the pressure points of officials to force compliance, ie we have a useful excuse to dump Petreaus when we want but certainly dont know anything about Hilly........

 

[kaz]

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.

There's always been a doom and gloom hysterical fear wing of the Republican party. Remember Pat Buchanan?

And other than that I'm not a Republican and I don't support "anything with free trade in the title," I support free trade.

Also, how do you know the field of economics is wrong when you say free trade has cost us?

 

[eagle1462010]

America s Biggest Companies Continue To Move Factories Offshore And Eliminate Thousands of American Jobs

Here are some of the filings:





Flextronics Americas in Stafford, Texas, will lay off 147 workers because their jobs "are being transferred to Juarez, Mexico," writes Chrystal Broussard Johnson, a Workforce Account Executive at a TAA "One-Stop Operator/Partner."



Jabil of Tempe, Ariz., will lay off more than 500 workers making printed circuit boards and box-build assemblies for the medical, industrial and aerospace sectors. "We are in the process of moving several assemblies to other Jabil facilities in Mexico and Asia in order to reduce labor costs and meet our customers' pricing expectations," writes Jabil HR Manager Dawn Tabelak in a July 15 TAA petition.


Joy Global of Franklin, Penn., will lay off 245 workers making underground mining equipment because production is "being shifted to a foreign location, outsourcing increased imports, articles and services," writes Timothy Buck, a union official in York, Penn.


Phillips Lighting Company's Bath, N.Y., factory making finished lamps will lay off 265 workers because "production is being shifted to a foreign country," writes Amy Heysham, Director of Human Resources for Phillips.


Hewlett Packard will lay off 500 employees working in customer service and technical support in Conway, Ark., due to "global restructuring," according to Mazen Alkhamis, Business Solutions Analyst for the state of Arkansas in Little Rock.


DAK Americas of Leland, N.C., is laying off 340 full-time workers and 264 contract workers because it closed its entire production facility at its Cape Fear site due to dumped imports of competing products, according to Stephen Seals, DAK Americas' Senior Director of Human Resources. "Imports of PET resins have continued to rise in quantity over the last several years, especially from China and Oman," writes Seals. "The low price of these imports as well as the increasing volume continues to have a negative impact in the U.S. marketplace. For DAK Americas' Cape Fear site, it is the price suppression that these low-priced imports has brought with them that has been the most damaging. The continuing decline in prices has forced DAK Americas to rationalize capacity." Shutting down the Cape Fear PET resins manufacturing plant "would not be the outcome if the increasing volume of low-priced imports had not driven the manufacturing economics for this site beyond a state that cannot be maintained and be viable.

"DAK continues to participate in trade actions against these low-priced imports. There are three major trade cases for antidumping actions for Certain Polyester Staple Fiber products against Korea (A-580-839), Taiwan (A-583-833) and China (A-570-905) that remain active with trade actions aimed at controlling the dumping of fibers from these countries, yet the flow of imports continues to affect our business and the marketplace. As a result of continuing imports of those dumped products, DAK will be closing fiber manufacturing at the Cape Fear site. A significant portion of the Polyester Stable Fiber produced on-site will now be transferred and be manufactured in Queretaro, Mexico. . . Even with the renewed anti-dumping trade case affirmative actions against Korea, free-trade agreements with Korea were put in place that bolster the ability for these imports to continue. If imports were not given increased access to the U.S. marketplace for the products produced at DAK Americas Cape Fear site, the site would not be forced to rationalize capacity and shut down its operations resulting in the loss of approximately 600 jobs at the site."


Eli Lilly will lose nearly 1,000 sales representatives nationwide "as a result of the loss of patent protection from two of its best-selling drugs: Cymbalta and Evista," writes Susan Fracasso, Rapid Response Coordinator for the state of Connecticut in Wethersfield. "Those two products will be made generically, likely by facilities outside of the United States.


Charles Inc. of Council Bluffs, Iowa, will lay off 60 furniture workers. The reason: "Since mid-1990s, many upholstered furniture companies have been importing completely upholstered furniture, cut & sewn kits and raw materials from China, Mexico, Vietnam and other Southeast Asia countries," according to Lindsay Anderson, TAA Coordinator for the state of Iowa. "This has resulted in Charles Inc.'s inability to compete with them and be able to meet their prices. Charles Inc. has tried many different approaches, but the labor and material saving on imported products was too much for Charles Inc. to overcome."


PDM Bridge based in Proctor, Minn., will lay off 35 workers because the company is "losing local contract product bids in the last year to multinational and overseas buyers and producers of like and similar bridge products," according to Debra Schlekewy, TAA Coordinator for the state of Minnesota.


Honeywell Process Solutions, manufacturer of electronic industrial control units in York, Penn., will lay off 110 workers. "Company filed WARN stating closure in the first quarter of 2014 with layoffs expected to begin in August 2013," writes Terri Zimmerman of the Pennsylvania state government. "Per company official most of the work is transferring to Mexico."


Nordex USA Inc., maker of wind blades in both Jonesboro, Ark., and Chicago, Ill., will lay off 80 workers because production is "being sifted to a foreign country," according to Francene Miller of the Arkansas state government.

 

[kaz]

Yeah well that's the kind of response I would expect from you. That is why I asked conservatives and not you. So tell me then why your hero president wants it.

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

Not true. 'Big government' as you term it is a product of corporations, as much as it is by popular vote. The two trade deals will clearly regulate and enforce provisions that monopolize the market and only favor a chosen few companies.*

And as for 'high prices', you will get a lot of those price hikes when the two trade deals go into effect, starting with electricity, healthcare, and education.

*High tech firms will leave America in droves the moment that TPP and TTIP are signed, as the draconian provisions will bar them from operating.

Hysterical fear with solutions with no basis in the field of economics is a great way to run the economy, I see your point

 

[PredFan]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Only the establishment Republicans are for it because their corporate backers want cheap workers.

Actually, much to my disappointment, Ted Cruz is also for it.

 

[kaz]

America s Biggest Companies Continue To Move Factories Offshore And Eliminate Thousands of American Jobs

Here are some of the filings:





Flextronics Americas in Stafford, Texas, will lay off 147 workers because their jobs "are being transferred to Juarez, Mexico," writes Chrystal Broussard Johnson, a Workforce Account Executive at a TAA "One-Stop Operator/Partner."



Jabil of Tempe, Ariz., will lay off more than 500 workers making printed circuit boards and box-build assemblies for the medical, industrial and aerospace sectors. "We are in the process of moving several assemblies to other Jabil facilities in Mexico and Asia in order to reduce labor costs and meet our customers' pricing expectations," writes Jabil HR Manager Dawn Tabelak in a July 15 TAA petition.


Joy Global of Franklin, Penn., will lay off 245 workers making underground mining equipment because production is "being shifted to a foreign location, outsourcing increased imports, articles and services," writes Timothy Buck, a union official in York, Penn.


Phillips Lighting Company's Bath, N.Y., factory making finished lamps will lay off 265 workers because "production is being shifted to a foreign country," writes Amy Heysham, Director of Human Resources for Phillips.


Hewlett Packard will lay off 500 employees working in customer service and technical support in Conway, Ark., due to "global restructuring," according to Mazen Alkhamis, Business Solutions Analyst for the state of Arkansas in Little Rock.


DAK Americas of Leland, N.C., is laying off 340 full-time workers and 264 contract workers because it closed its entire production facility at its Cape Fear site due to dumped imports of competing products, according to Stephen Seals, DAK Americas' Senior Director of Human Resources. "Imports of PET resins have continued to rise in quantity over the last several years, especially from China and Oman," writes Seals. "The low price of these imports as well as the increasing volume continues to have a negative impact in the U.S. marketplace. For DAK Americas' Cape Fear site, it is the price suppression that these low-priced imports has brought with them that has been the most damaging. The continuing decline in prices has forced DAK Americas to rationalize capacity." Shutting down the Cape Fear PET resins manufacturing plant "would not be the outcome if the increasing volume of low-priced imports had not driven the manufacturing economics for this site beyond a state that cannot be maintained and be viable.

"DAK continues to participate in trade actions against these low-priced imports. There are three major trade cases for antidumping actions for Certain Polyester Staple Fiber products against Korea (A-580-839), Taiwan (A-583-833) and China (A-570-905) that remain active with trade actions aimed at controlling the dumping of fibers from these countries, yet the flow of imports continues to affect our business and the marketplace. As a result of continuing imports of those dumped products, DAK will be closing fiber manufacturing at the Cape Fear site. A significant portion of the Polyester Stable Fiber produced on-site will now be transferred and be manufactured in Queretaro, Mexico. . . Even with the renewed anti-dumping trade case affirmative actions against Korea, free-trade agreements with Korea were put in place that bolster the ability for these imports to continue. If imports were not given increased access to the U.S. marketplace for the products produced at DAK Americas Cape Fear site, the site would not be forced to rationalize capacity and shut down its operations resulting in the loss of approximately 600 jobs at the site."


Eli Lilly will lose nearly 1,000 sales representatives nationwide "as a result of the loss of patent protection from two of its best-selling drugs: Cymbalta and Evista," writes Susan Fracasso, Rapid Response Coordinator for the state of Connecticut in Wethersfield. "Those two products will be made generically, likely by facilities outside of the United States.


Charles Inc. of Council Bluffs, Iowa, will lay off 60 furniture workers. The reason: "Since mid-1990s, many upholstered furniture companies have been importing completely upholstered furniture, cut & sewn kits and raw materials from China, Mexico, Vietnam and other Southeast Asia countries," according to Lindsay Anderson, TAA Coordinator for the state of Iowa. "This has resulted in Charles Inc.'s inability to compete with them and be able to meet their prices. Charles Inc. has tried many different approaches, but the labor and material saving on imported products was too much for Charles Inc. to overcome."


PDM Bridge based in Proctor, Minn., will lay off 35 workers because the company is "losing local contract product bids in the last year to multinational and overseas buyers and producers of like and similar bridge products," according to Debra Schlekewy, TAA Coordinator for the state of Minnesota.


Honeywell Process Solutions, manufacturer of electronic industrial control units in York, Penn., will lay off 110 workers. "Company filed WARN stating closure in the first quarter of 2014 with layoffs expected to begin in August 2013," writes Terri Zimmerman of the Pennsylvania state government. "Per company official most of the work is transferring to Mexico."


Nordex USA Inc., maker of wind blades in both Jonesboro, Ark., and Chicago, Ill., will lay off 80 workers because production is "being sifted to a foreign country," according to Francene Miller of the Arkansas state government.

Good for them. Doing what the Democrats want and saying inefficient is a great way to go under and kill all their jobs. As I pointed ou tto you, more jobs will be created. That is if you believe the field of economics anyway. It made sense to me. I am an MBA in Finance from Michigan, Finance is a branch of economics

 

[kaz]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

Only the establishment Republicans are for it because their corporate backers want cheap workers.

Actually, much to my disappointment, Ted Cruz is also for it.

Great to hear that he's not living in paranoid fear like you the world is better than us and we'll fail and ironically you then support a policy of a government solution that leads to that you fear

 

[kiwiman127]

i mean, I understand the everything obama does is bad and everything he says is a lie, but on this trade deal, I find myself in my usual spot against the Idiot in Chief, but why are all these Democrats here?

Seriously though, this trade deal is a job and US Economy killer. I admit to not knowing all there is to know about it, but from what I do know, it seems bad.

Educate me. What am I missing?

You are missing that free trade is good for the economy and for jobs

Yeah, that NAFTA shit was fucking awesome for the economy and jobs in other countries, all our prosperity trickled down to the docks and got on a boat.

Yes, NAFTA has been great for our country, it's helped keep prices for consumers low

Keeping prices low on products, cheaply made products like our disposable TV's, it's crap. I remember when only the poor were forced to buy stuff made in China, now it's the norm. I remember when TV's lasted over a decade, now with the offshore cheap TV's, lasting a decade is a rarity.
I remember when we had the strongest middle class in the world by far, since NAFTA and CAFTA we no longer have a strong middle class.
Free trade has killed the American middle Class and killed American manufacturing.
Exactly, how blind are you?

 

[hipeter924]

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

Not true. 'Big government' as you term it is a product of corporations, as much as it is by popular vote. The two trade deals will clearly regulate and enforce provisions that monopolize the market and only favor a chosen few companies.*

And as for 'high prices', you will get a lot of those price hikes when the two trade deals go into effect, starting with electricity, healthcare, and education.

*High tech firms will leave America in droves the moment that TPP and TTIP are signed, as the draconian provisions will bar them from operating.

Hysterical fear with solutions with no basis in the field of economics is a great way to run the economy, I see your point

So all these companies and organizations are acting out of 'hysterical fear' by opposing fast track? Tech Company and User Groups Letter to Congress on TPP Fast Track Electronic Frontier Foundation

 

[Manonthestreet]

America s Biggest Companies Continue To Move Factories Offshore And Eliminate Thousands of American Jobs

Here are some of the filings:





Flextronics Americas in Stafford, Texas, will lay off 147 workers because their jobs "are being transferred to Juarez, Mexico," writes Chrystal Broussard Johnson, a Workforce Account Executive at a TAA "One-Stop Operator/Partner."



Jabil of Tempe, Ariz., will lay off more than 500 workers making printed circuit boards and box-build assemblies for the medical, industrial and aerospace sectors. "We are in the process of moving several assemblies to other Jabil facilities in Mexico and Asia in order to reduce labor costs and meet our customers' pricing expectations," writes Jabil HR Manager Dawn Tabelak in a July 15 TAA petition.


Joy Global of Franklin, Penn., will lay off 245 workers making underground mining equipment because production is "being shifted to a foreign location, outsourcing increased imports, articles and services," writes Timothy Buck, a union official in York, Penn.


Phillips Lighting Company's Bath, N.Y., factory making finished lamps will lay off 265 workers because "production is being shifted to a foreign country," writes Amy Heysham, Director of Human Resources for Phillips.


Hewlett Packard will lay off 500 employees working in customer service and technical support in Conway, Ark., due to "global restructuring," according to Mazen Alkhamis, Business Solutions Analyst for the state of Arkansas in Little Rock.


DAK Americas of Leland, N.C., is laying off 340 full-time workers and 264 contract workers because it closed its entire production facility at its Cape Fear site due to dumped imports of competing products, according to Stephen Seals, DAK Americas' Senior Director of Human Resources. "Imports of PET resins have continued to rise in quantity over the last several years, especially from China and Oman," writes Seals. "The low price of these imports as well as the increasing volume continues to have a negative impact in the U.S. marketplace. For DAK Americas' Cape Fear site, it is the price suppression that these low-priced imports has brought with them that has been the most damaging. The continuing decline in prices has forced DAK Americas to rationalize capacity." Shutting down the Cape Fear PET resins manufacturing plant "would not be the outcome if the increasing volume of low-priced imports had not driven the manufacturing economics for this site beyond a state that cannot be maintained and be viable.

"DAK continues to participate in trade actions against these low-priced imports. There are three major trade cases for antidumping actions for Certain Polyester Staple Fiber products against Korea (A-580-839), Taiwan (A-583-833) and China (A-570-905) that remain active with trade actions aimed at controlling the dumping of fibers from these countries, yet the flow of imports continues to affect our business and the marketplace. As a result of continuing imports of those dumped products, DAK will be closing fiber manufacturing at the Cape Fear site. A significant portion of the Polyester Stable Fiber produced on-site will now be transferred and be manufactured in Queretaro, Mexico. . . Even with the renewed anti-dumping trade case affirmative actions against Korea, free-trade agreements with Korea were put in place that bolster the ability for these imports to continue. If imports were not given increased access to the U.S. marketplace for the products produced at DAK Americas Cape Fear site, the site would not be forced to rationalize capacity and shut down its operations resulting in the loss of approximately 600 jobs at the site."


Eli Lilly will lose nearly 1,000 sales representatives nationwide "as a result of the loss of patent protection from two of its best-selling drugs: Cymbalta and Evista," writes Susan Fracasso, Rapid Response Coordinator for the state of Connecticut in Wethersfield. "Those two products will be made generically, likely by facilities outside of the United States.


Charles Inc. of Council Bluffs, Iowa, will lay off 60 furniture workers. The reason: "Since mid-1990s, many upholstered furniture companies have been importing completely upholstered furniture, cut & sewn kits and raw materials from China, Mexico, Vietnam and other Southeast Asia countries," according to Lindsay Anderson, TAA Coordinator for the state of Iowa. "This has resulted in Charles Inc.'s inability to compete with them and be able to meet their prices. Charles Inc. has tried many different approaches, but the labor and material saving on imported products was too much for Charles Inc. to overcome."


PDM Bridge based in Proctor, Minn., will lay off 35 workers because the company is "losing local contract product bids in the last year to multinational and overseas buyers and producers of like and similar bridge products," according to Debra Schlekewy, TAA Coordinator for the state of Minnesota.


Honeywell Process Solutions, manufacturer of electronic industrial control units in York, Penn., will lay off 110 workers. "Company filed WARN stating closure in the first quarter of 2014 with layoffs expected to begin in August 2013," writes Terri Zimmerman of the Pennsylvania state government. "Per company official most of the work is transferring to Mexico."


Nordex USA Inc., maker of wind blades in both Jonesboro, Ark., and Chicago, Ill., will lay off 80 workers because production is "being sifted to a foreign country," according to Francene Miller of the Arkansas state government.

Good for them. Doing what the Democrats want and saying inefficient is a great way to go under and kill all their jobs. As I pointed ou tto you, more jobs will be created. That is if you believe the field of economics anyway. It made sense to me. I am an MBA in Finance from Michigan, Finance is a branch of economics

Since you dont know what the treaty says your claim is invalid

 

[kaz]

If you oppose this trade deal just because Obama then you are on the right side of the debate for the wrong reasons.

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.

Supporting free trade is one thing. Support something Obama calls "free trade" is another. I wouldn't support any bill that the public didn't get to see before Congress voted on it. The fact that they want to hide the details is all the reason I need to say "no." Republicans were elected partly to end this practice of shoving bills through Congress before the public can determine whether they like it or not.

Who said the public doesn't get to see it? I thought the fast track just meant it gets an up or down vote. That's good because both sides will turn it into a Xmas tree of earmarks if they get the chance

 

[kaz]

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

Not true. 'Big government' as you term it is a product of corporations, as much as it is by popular vote. The two trade deals will clearly regulate and enforce provisions that monopolize the market and only favor a chosen few companies.*

And as for 'high prices', you will get a lot of those price hikes when the two trade deals go into effect, starting with electricity, healthcare, and education.

*High tech firms will leave America in droves the moment that TPP and TTIP are signed, as the draconian provisions will bar them from operating.

Hysterical fear with solutions with no basis in the field of economics is a great way to run the economy, I see your point

So all these companies and organizations are acting out of 'hysterical fear' by opposing fast track? Tech Company and User Groups Letter to Congress on TPP Fast Track Electronic Frontier Foundation

Strawman, I don't know why they oppose fast track and I didn't argue for fast track. I didn't even argue for these bills, haven't seen them. I argued for free trade and NAFTA

 

[Manonthestreet]

Jesus! Where did I say that you illiterate fuck? Can you answer my question nit wit?

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.

Supporting free trade is one thing. Support something Obama calls "free trade" is another. I wouldn't support any bill that the public didn't get to see before Congress voted on it. The fact that they want to hide the details is all the reason I need to say "no." Republicans were elected partly to end this practice of shoving bills through Congress before the public can determine whether they like it or not.

Who said the public doesn't get to see it? I thought the fast track just meant it gets an up or down vote. That's good because both sides will turn it into a Xmas tree of earmarks if they get the chance

they dont get to change it

 

[kaz]

America s Biggest Companies Continue To Move Factories Offshore And Eliminate Thousands of American Jobs

Here are some of the filings:





Flextronics Americas in Stafford, Texas, will lay off 147 workers because their jobs "are being transferred to Juarez, Mexico," writes Chrystal Broussard Johnson, a Workforce Account Executive at a TAA "One-Stop Operator/Partner."



Jabil of Tempe, Ariz., will lay off more than 500 workers making printed circuit boards and box-build assemblies for the medical, industrial and aerospace sectors. "We are in the process of moving several assemblies to other Jabil facilities in Mexico and Asia in order to reduce labor costs and meet our customers' pricing expectations," writes Jabil HR Manager Dawn Tabelak in a July 15 TAA petition.


Joy Global of Franklin, Penn., will lay off 245 workers making underground mining equipment because production is "being shifted to a foreign location, outsourcing increased imports, articles and services," writes Timothy Buck, a union official in York, Penn.


Phillips Lighting Company's Bath, N.Y., factory making finished lamps will lay off 265 workers because "production is being shifted to a foreign country," writes Amy Heysham, Director of Human Resources for Phillips.


Hewlett Packard will lay off 500 employees working in customer service and technical support in Conway, Ark., due to "global restructuring," according to Mazen Alkhamis, Business Solutions Analyst for the state of Arkansas in Little Rock.


DAK Americas of Leland, N.C., is laying off 340 full-time workers and 264 contract workers because it closed its entire production facility at its Cape Fear site due to dumped imports of competing products, according to Stephen Seals, DAK Americas' Senior Director of Human Resources. "Imports of PET resins have continued to rise in quantity over the last several years, especially from China and Oman," writes Seals. "The low price of these imports as well as the increasing volume continues to have a negative impact in the U.S. marketplace. For DAK Americas' Cape Fear site, it is the price suppression that these low-priced imports has brought with them that has been the most damaging. The continuing decline in prices has forced DAK Americas to rationalize capacity." Shutting down the Cape Fear PET resins manufacturing plant "would not be the outcome if the increasing volume of low-priced imports had not driven the manufacturing economics for this site beyond a state that cannot be maintained and be viable.

"DAK continues to participate in trade actions against these low-priced imports. There are three major trade cases for antidumping actions for Certain Polyester Staple Fiber products against Korea (A-580-839), Taiwan (A-583-833) and China (A-570-905) that remain active with trade actions aimed at controlling the dumping of fibers from these countries, yet the flow of imports continues to affect our business and the marketplace. As a result of continuing imports of those dumped products, DAK will be closing fiber manufacturing at the Cape Fear site. A significant portion of the Polyester Stable Fiber produced on-site will now be transferred and be manufactured in Queretaro, Mexico. . . Even with the renewed anti-dumping trade case affirmative actions against Korea, free-trade agreements with Korea were put in place that bolster the ability for these imports to continue. If imports were not given increased access to the U.S. marketplace for the products produced at DAK Americas Cape Fear site, the site would not be forced to rationalize capacity and shut down its operations resulting in the loss of approximately 600 jobs at the site."


Eli Lilly will lose nearly 1,000 sales representatives nationwide "as a result of the loss of patent protection from two of its best-selling drugs: Cymbalta and Evista," writes Susan Fracasso, Rapid Response Coordinator for the state of Connecticut in Wethersfield. "Those two products will be made generically, likely by facilities outside of the United States.


Charles Inc. of Council Bluffs, Iowa, will lay off 60 furniture workers. The reason: "Since mid-1990s, many upholstered furniture companies have been importing completely upholstered furniture, cut & sewn kits and raw materials from China, Mexico, Vietnam and other Southeast Asia countries," according to Lindsay Anderson, TAA Coordinator for the state of Iowa. "This has resulted in Charles Inc.'s inability to compete with them and be able to meet their prices. Charles Inc. has tried many different approaches, but the labor and material saving on imported products was too much for Charles Inc. to overcome."


PDM Bridge based in Proctor, Minn., will lay off 35 workers because the company is "losing local contract product bids in the last year to multinational and overseas buyers and producers of like and similar bridge products," according to Debra Schlekewy, TAA Coordinator for the state of Minnesota.


Honeywell Process Solutions, manufacturer of electronic industrial control units in York, Penn., will lay off 110 workers. "Company filed WARN stating closure in the first quarter of 2014 with layoffs expected to begin in August 2013," writes Terri Zimmerman of the Pennsylvania state government. "Per company official most of the work is transferring to Mexico."


Nordex USA Inc., maker of wind blades in both Jonesboro, Ark., and Chicago, Ill., will lay off 80 workers because production is "being sifted to a foreign country," according to Francene Miller of the Arkansas state government.

Good for them. Doing what the Democrats want and saying inefficient is a great way to go under and kill all their jobs. As I pointed ou tto you, more jobs will be created. That is if you believe the field of economics anyway. It made sense to me. I am an MBA in Finance from Michigan, Finance is a branch of economics

Since you dont know what the treaty says your claim is invalid

Where did it say they were doing those things because of these bills?

 

[eagle1462010]

I have stated time and time again that protectionism is a two edged sword............to much protection then you get higher prices and they offset the savings of jobs...........too little and you outsource your jobs................

Nonsense. First, you should consider like the libs that you are directly contradicting the field of economics.

Now it is true there are winners and losers in free trade, but economics says the more the better as a whole. We don't have blacksmiths anymore either. Some will have to be retrained. Some companies will lose. But more companies will win and more jobs will be created than lost. You know what economics also says? Having our borders open even if other borders are closed is better than having our borders closed.

Here are a few things you are not factoring

- It's not a zero sum game. Lower prices mean consumers pay lower prices, they spend the money they save on something else
- Corporations that offshore save money and have more money to fund new projects or return it to their owners, the shareholders
- Foreign corporations are offshoring, which puts ours at a disadvantage
- Our government is actually driving companies offshore with taxes and regulations, shouldn't you start there rather than punishing companies who are trying to be more efficient?

Our borders are not necessarily closed with tariffs.............If china bans products there..........which they do in some areas......then they get hit for it in return...................Tariffs don't close borders.........and they don't necessarily sky rocket prices when they are done in moderation...............

And the border closed argument would be if we started a trade war over it..................

NAFTA allowed corps to move south of the border...........use it to their advantage........and then ship it back here free gratis..........at the cost of hundreds of thousands of jobs.....................How is that beneficial to the average working man in this country?

Do the lower costs offset those who now have the great SERVICE SECTOR JOBS at McDonalds and Walmart....................that ain't a good trade off..............

 

[kaz]

Truthfully I cannot fathom why Obama is so set on this thing but he is certainly not my hero. That's my honest answer, now, convince me that you would be against this thing if our president was a republican.

So seriously, he's with the Democrats for overt government power to control our economy, keep high prices for consumers and make our corporations uncompetitive. He's on your side and wants what you do. What is the purpose of that question?

It's self-explanatory, most republicans support anything with free trade in the title as you do. I am fascinated at the motives for the small republican opposition, it must just be because Obama, anything else would be an admission that "free trade" fever has cost us dearly.

Supporting free trade is one thing. Support something Obama calls "free trade" is another. I wouldn't support any bill that the public didn't get to see before Congress voted on it. The fact that they want to hide the details is all the reason I need to say "no." Republicans were elected partly to end this practice of shoving bills through Congress before the public can determine whether they like it or not.

Who said the public doesn't get to see it? I thought the fast track just meant it gets an up or down vote. That's good because both sides will turn it into a Xmas tree of earmarks if they get the chance

they dont get to change it

I said that and addressed it in the post you quoted

 

[Dragonlady]

Is there a conservative here who can tell this conservative why most in the right are for this thing?

That's easy: US corporations can make more money outsourcing jobs. That's what's important because corporations are people too.