Socialism = Capitalism plus

[bripat9643]

Taxation is coercive in nature - there's no way around it. That's why we should minimize the practice, and only use it when it's truly necessary.

It might also help in minimizing costs. Imagine, for example, paying a toll for every street that you use.

Coercion and bureaucracy are never ever cost effective.


Imagine buying an annual pass (i.e. your license plate) to pay for the streets.

If they weren't cost effective, we wouldn't be using them, and yet we do.

"Cost effective" for whom?

Your third grade understanding of this argument is not worth my time.

You keep saying that, and yet you keep responding. They aren't cost effective for the consumer. Nothing the government does is cost effective. Just look at the price of a fighter plane or an aircraft carrier.

 

[bripat9643]

LOL - that's some serious logical deduction right there.

I understand why we might want to pay taxes. But that doesn't change the basic coercive nature of tax laws. Taxes aren't voluntary.

Call it what you want. Without taxes, the country stops moving. That's reality. Your hang up is your own. I just happen to be a realist who knows what it takes for the wheels of civilization to keep moving.

You can complain about taxes being coercive 24/7 if that's your bag, but reality is going to tell you that you'll just have to keep complaining.

That's not really defending your position as much as gloating.

It's reality, not gloating.

Recognizing that taxes are coercive helps us to keep them contained, so that we're not just taxing people so we can take their stuff.

That is a ridiculous analogy. How can something be coercive if it is a necessary must, in order to function in civilized society? Coercive is a verb that automatically cancels itself out, based on a necessity to function. Lol! I'm not sure why you insist on using that descriptive verb for a necessary means? It doesn't make sense?

They use force to collect taxes. How is that not coercive? What do you think will happen if you don't pay the IRS?

Changing the subject is not an intelligent rebuttal. Which is why you are incapable of debate.

I haven't changed the subject. You claimed government services are not coercive. Since force is used to pay for them, they obviously are coercive.

 

[BWK]

Cool.

Let's do that then.

Fuck no.

Why? Because it'd elevate the lowest Americans too much and hugely change our society for the better?

People on the right that call themselves nationalists deserve to be laughed at.

Move your ass to Denmark if you think they have it so great.

See how easy it is to win this argument? And it only took you posting about twice to do it. Republicans have no intelligent counter argument to a system that works perfectly, that we no longer have.

The only thing that you have won is the continuation of your ignorance. However you wish to define socialism, it involves turning over decision making to politicians and bureaucrats. They always do such a wonderful job of running things.

We'll, let's see now, Since FDR, we constructed interstate highways, public roads and bridges, S.S. Medicare, Medicaid, police, and fire departments, and I have yet to see any nation wide protests trying to take those benefits away. Have you?

Been through an Indian reservation lately? There is very little left in America that the federal government has not managed to screw up. And, you want more of it, just so your lazy ass doesn't have to worry about life?

You are conflating the original argument with a totally unrelated matter, and then, complicating it even more, by trying to tie "my lazy ass" to something that has nothing to do with the price of apples. Congratulations! Nothing like hijacking a debate to change the narrative 180 degrees. Sounds like you have no argument, so you resorted to attacking the subject, by attacking me instead. The good thing about that is, you aren't fooling me. I'm too used to those changing narratives when the opposing argument was lost a long time ago.

 

[EGR one]

Once again the lies and straw men...Scandinavia isn't socialist....They all have market-based economies.....A gigantic welfare/vassal state and being taxed to the point that your economies are utterly moribund, nearly non-existent economic mobility and disposal income, is greatly different from The State owning and operating the means of production.

Talk about others not knowing what socialism is.

Very few of these morons promoting Socialism for the United States have worked or lived in places like Holland and Norway, which they want to hold up as Utopias. Your reference of economic mobility is far and above these idiots' ability to understand. One of the things I found interesting about working in these countries was the only thing they really have as a tax deduction is interest expense. Basically, in order to avoid paying taxes you had to borrow money. So you either pay your income back in taxes or to banks. There's no way to accumulate capital to invest, and if you do have capital gains they are taxed at outrageous rates. Therefore you are limited in your ability to use capital appreciation to make a better life for yourself.

Every person I met over the years was up to their ass in debt. Very little disposable income. All their money went to living expense, interest payments, and taxes.

Um, excuse me, but you want to talk about debt? Seriously? What about student loan debt, or catastrophic illness debt, or banks setting up bad mortgage debt, or the debt accrued from income inequality debt and the entrapment of credit card debt? You certainly aren't going to accumulate capital like that. There's a thousand and one ways to be way worse off with the system we have now through total Corporatism, as opposed to the mixed bag of Socialism and Capitalism.

At the end of the day, they don't have to worry about life or death when it comes to paying for a catastrophic medical expense.

A corporation is nothing more than a legal means of people putting their money together to pursue an endeavor that none can afford to do on their own. Their political power is limited by their ability to curry favor with politicians. If you believe that corporations have too much political power, blame the politicians who are willing to sell their souls to the corporations.

We do not have debtor prisons, and no one dies for lack of medical care, unless they are too stupid to show up at a hospital emergency room. Your fear of going broke is not justification for destroying the free market system of economics that has make America the most powerful nation on earth.

 

[BWK]

Once again the lies and straw men...Scandinavia isn't socialist....They all have market-based economies.....A gigantic welfare/vassal state and being taxed to the point that your economies are utterly moribund, nearly non-existent economic mobility and disposal income, is greatly different from The State owning and operating the means of production.

Talk about others not knowing what socialism is.

Very few of these morons promoting Socialism for the United States have worked or lived in places like Holland and Norway, which they want to hold up as Utopias. Your reference of economic mobility is far and above these idiots' ability to understand. One of the things I found interesting about working in these countries was the only thing they really have as a tax deduction is interest expense. Basically, in order to avoid paying taxes you had to borrow money. So you either pay your income back in taxes or to banks. There's no way to accumulate capital to invest, and if you do have capital gains they are taxed at outrageous rates. Therefore you are limited in your ability to use capital appreciation to make a better life for yourself.

Every person I met over the years was up to their ass in debt. Very little disposable income. All their money went to living expense, interest payments, and taxes.

Um, excuse me, but you want to talk about debt? Seriously? What about student loan debt, or catastrophic illness debt, or banks setting up bad mortgage debt, or the debt accrued from income inequality debt and the entrapment of credit card debt? You certainly aren't going to accumulate capital like that. There's a thousand and one ways to be way worse off with the system we have now through total Corporatism, as opposed to the mixed bag of Socialism and Capitalism.

At the end of the day, they don't have to worry about life or death when it comes to paying for a catastrophic medical expense.

A corporation is nothing more than a legal means of people putting their money together to pursue an endeavor that none can afford to do on their own. Their political power is limited by their ability to curry favor with politicians.

They are not just limited by politicians. They control the politicians with the wealth, which controls the masses.

If you believe that corporations have too much political power, blame the politicians who are willing to sell their souls to the corporations.

I have, which is why I never blame the masses like Republicans try to do.

We do not have debtor prisons, and no one dies for lack of medical care, unless they are too stupid to show up at a hospital emergency room.

OMG! Did you really just type that? Do you have any idea how many people I personally know, who have died from a lack of insurance? You do know that in some states, that if you do not have insurance, the hospitals turn you away? What box are you living in?

Your fear of going broke is not justification for destroying the free market system of economics that has make America the most powerful nation on earth.

When did I say I was for destroying the free market? Please, quote me from any of my posts where I said that? You can't of course, and you invented that in your noggin.

I'll say this once more; Republicans seem to have a fixation on misrepresenting Socialism as one system in this country that the rest of us want exclusively. Lol! Not sure where they get that? Maybe it's just a convenient invention in their heads? Who knows?

 

[EGR one]

You don't like it -- move.

Your argument is unconvincing. I will continue voting for change.

Be careful what you vote for, you might actually get it.

 

[francoHFW]

Instead of going on a rant trying to get Republicans to understand what Socialism actually is, and that without it, there is no Capitalism, I wonder if Republicans will ever understand the easy explanation that Bill Maher points out here? That in fact, for most of us, to be happy and to have piece of mind financially, it is in fact Socialism that delivers real Capitalism to most Americans? Let's see how many of them get it? And then, let's see how many of them can deliver an intelligent argument against it?

Sure seems to be an easy fix to this mess....move to one of those "happy" places....dumbass.

Unless you are mega rich or married to a citizen, you can't, ignorant brainwashed functional moron. Stop being duped by the give away to the rich brainwashing greedy idiot mega Rich GOP duh.

 

[Flash]

Socialism = Capitalism Plus.

Selling destruction with false labeling.

 

[EGR one]

Instead of going on a rant trying to get Republicans to understand what Socialism actually is, and that without it, there is no Capitalism, I wonder if Republicans will ever understand the easy explanation that Bill Maher points out here? That in fact, for most of us, to be happy and to have piece of mind financially, it is in fact Socialism that delivers real Capitalism to most Americans? Let's see how many of them get it? And then, let's see how many of them can deliver an intelligent argument against it?

Shut the fuck up, commie.

YOU don't know what socialism is.

.

No need for such anger. You live in a socialist/capitalist society. It's not killin ya.

They go off like the chicken with the head cut off when they realize we are as Socialist as they come, while Capitalism for the average Joe left the building almost forty years ago.

Pure bull crap! The free market is still very much alive in America. No thanks to the economically indoctrinated toadstools that blame their economic fears on the system. Keep in mind, that without the agony of defeat, there is no thrill of victory.

 

[francoHFW]

You don't like it -- move.

Your argument is unconvincing. I will continue voting for change.

Be careful what you vote for, you might actually get it.

you mean like every other modern country that has Health Care daycare living wage five week vacations good infrastructure cheap college and training? and mainly a progressive tax system instead of the flat tax system we have now? Yes that would be horrible super duper....

 

[EGR one]

The only taxation I have been talking about is your previous example, not the latter.

Taxation and spending for the necessary mutual benefit of all?

Examples:
Military Defense
Courts
Police
Fire

Those are designed to benefit all citizens equally (I know they don't always do so).

Welfare (corporate or individual) and Competitive Taxation (FedEx, UPS, etc. paying taxes to compete with USPS) are examples of theft by taxation. There are plenty more.

The majority of welfare goes to corporate. We just shelled out $2 trillion to corporate, and got nothing back, but extra debt. The percentage of individual welfare is a fraction of what corporate gets.

So, your main complaint about our economic system is that some people are rich, and you are not?

 

[Flash]

Um, excuse me, but you want to talk about debt? Seriously? What about student loan debt, or catastrophic illness debt, or banks setting up bad mortgage debt, or the debt accrued from income inequality debt and the entrapment of credit card debt? You certainly aren't going to accumulate capital like that. There's a thousand and one ways to be way worse off with the system we have now through total Corporatism, as opposed to the mixed bag of Socialism and Capitalism.

At the end of the day, they don't have to worry about life or death when it comes to paying for a catastrophic medical expense.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Student debt - your fault, not mine. If you can't afford a college education then don't go to college.

Illness debt - your fault not mine. You are responsible for your own health care bills, not me.

Mortgage default - your fault not mine. Don't buy a house a can't afford.

Inequality debt- really seriously? LOL! SJW bullshit.

Credit card debt - if you can't pay your credit card bill it is your own damn fault, not mine. Don't buy so much shit with your credit card.

Capitalism creates the wealth that allows people to buy things and pay off debt. Socialism destroys wealth and doesn't create a damn thing except economic disaster and state sponsored thievery.

You would know things like this if you ever took a course in Economics. Economics is not exactly the strong suit of you dumbass Moon Bats, is it? You are just as ignorant in that subject as you are in history, ethics, the Constitution, biology and climate science, aren't you?

 

[francoHFW]

Um, excuse me, but you want to talk about debt? Seriously? What about student loan debt, or catastrophic illness debt, or banks setting up bad mortgage debt, or the debt accrued from income inequality debt and the entrapment of credit card debt? You certainly aren't going to accumulate capital like that. There's a thousand and one ways to be way worse off with the system we have now through total Corporatism, as opposed to the mixed bag of Socialism and Capitalism.

At the end of the day, they don't have to worry about life or death when it comes to paying for a catastrophic medical expense.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Student debt - your fault, not mine. If you can't afford a college education then don't go to college.

Illness debt - your fault not mine. You are responsible for your own health care bills, not me.

Mortgage default - your fault not mine. Don't buy a house a can't afford.

Inequality debt- really seriously? LOL! SJW bullshit.

Credit card debt - if you can't pay your credit card bill it is your own damn fault, not mine. Don't buy so much shit with your credit card.

Capitalism creates the wealth that allows people to buy things and pay off debt. Socialism destroys wealth and doesn't create a damn thing except economic disaster and state sponsored thievery.

You would know things like this if you ever took a course in Economics. Economics is not exactly the strong suit of you dumbass Moon Bats, is it? You are just as ignorant in that subject as you are in history, ethics, the Constitution, biology and climate science, aren't you?

and it is silly dupes like you we have to thank for the worst inequality and upward Mobility ever and the modern world. When you have a giant give away to the rich like we do now, it means the ruin of the middle class and the country's infrastructure, brainwashed functional moron.

 

[hunarcy]

Instead of going on a rant trying to get Republicans to understand what Socialism actually is, and that without it, there is no Capitalism, I wonder if Republicans will ever understand the easy explanation that Bill Maher points out here? That in fact, for most of us, to be happy and to have piece of mind financially, it is in fact Socialism that delivers real Capitalism to most Americans? Let's see how many of them get it? And then, let's see how many of them can deliver an intelligent argument against it?

You are stating that backwards. Without Capitalism and the money it generates, there would be NO Socialism. Socialism just takes. Capitalism provides.

 

[francoHFW]

Instead of going on a rant trying to get Republicans to understand what Socialism actually is, and that without it, there is no Capitalism, I wonder if Republicans will ever understand the easy explanation that Bill Maher points out here? That in fact, for most of us, to be happy and to have piece of mind financially, it is in fact Socialism that delivers real Capitalism to most Americans? Let's see how many of them get it? And then, let's see how many of them can deliver an intelligent argument against it?

You are stating that backwards. Without Capitalism and the money it generates, there would be NO Socialism. Socialism just takes. Capitalism provides.

And you need both to have a healthy economy middle-class working class etc etc. The last 35 years we have had a giveaway to the rich GOP disaster, except for the rich of course. Only misinformation and propaganda make it possible for silly dupes like you to exist....

 

[Andylusion]

Fuck no.

Why? Because it'd elevate the lowest Americans too much and hugely change our society for the better?

People on the right that call themselves nationalists deserve to be laughed at.

Move your ass to Denmark if you think they have it so great.

See how easy it is to win this argument? And it only took you posting about twice to do it. Republicans have no intelligent counter argument to a system that works perfectly, that we no longer have.

The only thing that you have won is the continuation of your ignorance. However you wish to define socialism, it involves turning over decision making to politicians and bureaucrats. They always do such a wonderful job of running things.

We'll, let's see now, Since FDR, we constructed interstate highways, public roads and bridges, S.S. Medicare, Medicaid, police, and fire departments, and I have yet to see any nation wide protests trying to take those benefits away. Have you?

Been through an Indian reservation lately? There is very little left in America that the federal government has not managed to screw up. And, you want more of it, just so your lazy ass doesn't have to worry about life?

You are conflating the original argument with a totally unrelated matter, and then, complicating it even more, by trying to tie "my lazy ass" to something that has nothing to do with the price of apples. Congratulations! Nothing like hijacking a debate to change the narrative 180 degrees. Sounds like you have no argument, so you resorted to attacking the subject, by attacking me instead. The good thing about that is, you aren't fooling me. I'm too used to those changing narratives when the opposing argument was lost a long time ago.

I don't know what you are doing when you reply, but all your posts are blank.

 

[Oddball]

And you need both to have a healthy economy middle-class working class etc etc. The last 35 years we have had a giveaway to the rich GOP disaster, except for the rich of course. Only misinformation and propaganda make it possible for silly dupes like you to exist....

People keeping what was theirs in the first place isn't a "giveaway", Karl.

 

[francoHFW]

And you need both to have a healthy economy middle-class working class etc etc. The last 35 years we have had a giveaway to the rich GOP disaster, except for the rich of course. Only misinformation and propaganda make it possible for silly dupes like you to exist....

People keeping what was theirs in the first place isn't a "giveaway", Karl.

when you have a flat tax system like we do now after 35 years of giveaway to the rich, along with cuts and services and cheap college and training etc etc, what you get is the worst inequality and upward Mobility in our history, dumbass. If you don't like taxes, move to Somalia.

 

[Thinker101]

I see, so you're against the free healthcare, free college and free income?

Nothing is free, whether it is private or government. So your question has no relationship with making any sense?

Republicans have this attraction for creating these make believe scenarios in their minds, that have nothing to do with reality.

Free HC/college/freeincome, if those things existed, would not be free. We would still pay for them. So stop pretending the free stuff exists, when it never has.

Wow, nice attempt to duck the question. Many of us are quite aware that nothing is for free, yet you wacko liberals push it as free...go figure.

How? What "wacko liberals push it as free?" Quote one? You aren't making any sense.

WTF, you don't have a television, or a newspaper, live in Antarctica, can't read?
The College-Affordability Crisis Is Uniting the 2020 Democratic Candidates

And? That doesn't mean it will be totally free.

Gee, yet you fricken loons feel it would be free...go figure.

 

[Thinker101]

Instead of going on a rant trying to get Republicans to understand what Socialism actually is, and that without it, there is no Capitalism, I wonder if Republicans will ever understand the easy explanation that Bill Maher points out here? That in fact, for most of us, to be happy and to have piece of mind financially, it is in fact Socialism that delivers real Capitalism to most Americans? Let's see how many of them get it? And then, let's see how many of them can deliver an intelligent argument against it?

Sure seems to be an easy fix to this mess....move to one of those "happy" places....dumbass.

Unless you are mega rich or married to a citizen, you can't, ignorant brainwashed functional moron. Stop being duped by the give away to the rich brainwashing greedy idiot mega Rich GOP duh.

What? You mean these other countries have laws, rules and regulations that people follow. Dumbass.