The abortion issue troubles me mightily

[Vandalshandle]

If men could get pregnant, abortion would never have been illegal in the first place.

How do you explain pro-life/ anti abortion women and the fact that many of them are women who have already had an abortion and now regret it?

I explain it the same way that I explain Trump voters. Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American voter.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Definitions are powerful.

Prolife people tend to define the unborn fetus as the most innocent, a human being that has the right to life just like the rest of us.

Pro-choice people tend to define the unborn fetus as a clump of cells in a woman's body that has no more rights than the woman's appendix.

If you want to understand both sides of the issue, look at the issue through the prism of both those definitions.

I'd venture to say pro-life people have a mystical/spiritual connection to that fertilized egg. They see what it can become. Pro-choice folk take a more secular view and see that egg as it is.

The only trouble with that is the pro birthers don't give two shits about the kid once it's born.

Yep! They maintain that it is all about "personal responsibility". I have often wondered why the child is to pay the penalty for the lack of parental "personal responsibility", but I guess that it is sort of a issue where the sins of the father should be visited with the child.

 

[Chuz Life]

If men could get pregnant, abortion would never have been illegal in the first place.

How do you explain pro-life/ anti abortion women and the fact that many of them are women who have already had an abortion and now regret it?

I explain it the same way that I explain Trump voters. Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American voter.

You are dodging the question.

 

[ding]

It was the central question.

Don't be so overly emotional. It would just go back to letting the states decide.

Relax.

I grew up in the South during the civil rights struggle. I am not interested in watching Texas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana trample all over the people's rights again in my lifetime. They would do it again in a New York second, if allowed to.

Some would argue that the civil rights of new and genetically distinct human beings are being trampled on today.

...and some would be wrong, because legally, a fetus is not a human being, at least until it is a viable life outside the womb.

DNA says they are new and genetically distinct human beings.

Viability does not determine humanity. If it did then anyone who was not viable due to injury or illness would not be human.

That sounds like a Trumpism. It makes no sense at all. Viable means able to live. It does not mean able to live unassisted.

Same difference.

 

[ding]

The abortion issue bothers you so much you forget that thousand of kids die everyday on the planet and you say nothing about it..Only when you want/can control other folks is it an issue...

I just realized that you're a woman. I don't know why that never occurred to me before.

 

[ding]

Those who support the legality of abortion do not seek to force anything on anyone.

Those who are against the legality actively seek to control others, and the full heat of their wrath falls on the poor and working class.

If Republicans really cared about children and women, they would make it easier for the unfortunate women to give birth knowing their children will be taken care of and they will be helped.

But right here on the USMB, Republicans feel forcing a woman to have that baby will "teach her a lesson" and her punishment is that baby.

Imagine growing up knowing you're existence was a punishment. At least we'll know where criminals will be coming from.

So after losing the science debate it is on to your next logical fallacy straw-man of your own making? Well... that is easier than making a cogent argument.

I bet TN wants to get in on some of this... oh wait.. no he doesn't.

The fact is Republicans don’t care for the baby and they don’t care for the mother.
And that is not even under debate. Everyone already knows it.

No. Those aren't facts. Those are your beliefs.

 

[Moonglow]

The abortion issue bothers you so much you forget that thousand of kids die everyday on the planet and you say nothing about it..Only when you want/can control other folks is it an issue...

I just realized that you're a woman. I don't know why that never occurred to me before.

Better feel again...

 

[alang1216]

Definitions are powerful.

Prolife people tend to define the unborn fetus as the most innocent, a human being that has the right to life just like the rest of us.

Pro-choice people tend to define the unborn fetus as a clump of cells in a woman's body that has no more rights than the woman's appendix.

If you want to understand both sides of the issue, look at the issue through the prism of both those definitions.

I'd venture to say pro-life people have a mystical/spiritual connection to that fertilized egg. They see what it can become. Pro-choice folk take a more secular view and see that egg as it is.

Then why are pro abortion people always...say...in support of forcing gay marriage? And harbor a hatred of christianity? Support gun control? Oppose Trump?
The evil is part and parcel of their being.

Then why are pro abortion people always...say...in support of forcing gay marriage?
No one is 'forcing' gay marriage but secular folk don't take their guidance from the Bible and there is no other rational reason the government should care who you marry.

And harbor a hatred of christianity?
I don't hate Christianity I just don't want it be the law of the land. I feel the same about Islam and Sharia Law.

Support gun control?
Everyone supports gun control, they just differ on the details.

Oppose Trump?
A lot of people oppose Trump for a lot of reasons.

The evil is part and parcel of their being.
Anyone who doesn't agree with you is evil? Pretty arrogant to think you are the judge who determines who is good and who is bad. I thought that was God's role.

 

[alang1216]

Every creature on the planet is a unique being. What makes a fertilized human egg different from the fertilized egg of any other mammal?

Human biological parents.

You may soon have to come up with a better definition. In vitro fertilization, cloning, surrogate parents, changing the DNA of a zygote are just the beginning. Soon I'll be able to take my DNA, put it into a pig's egg and have the pig deliver my baby. Not something I advocate but it will be technically possible. Is that baby human?

 

[Taz]

The abortion issue troubles me mightily

Here's a suggestion: STOP THINKING ABOUT IT!

 

[ding]

The abortion issue bothers you so much you forget that thousand of kids die everyday on the planet and you say nothing about it..Only when you want/can control other folks is it an issue...

I just realized that you're a woman. I don't know why that never occurred to me before.

Better feel again...

Why? Wasn't one enough?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

Nazis worshipped "science" as well. And they used that as an excuse to do disgusting, horrible things to humans...and said that because they weren't quite as *human* as the aryans, it was AOK.

I'd be remiss not to remind all that the Progressives championed the 'Master Race' concepts before the Nazis.

Hitler wrote to the president of the American Eugenics Society to ask for a copy of his“The Case for Sterilization.”
(Margaret Sanger and Sterilization)

German race science stood on American progressive’s shoulders.

 

[ding]

Margaret Sanger believed that abortion was an abomination.

 

[GHook93]

Those who support the legality of abortion do not seek to force anything on anyone.

Those who are against the legality actively seek to control others, and the full heat of their wrath falls on the poor and working class.

I am pro-choice, but abortion not forcing death upon the baby in the womb. Those babies don’t speak for themselves and need others to do it for them.

I fully believe abortion is evil, but I see it as the lesser of 2 evils!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Vandalshandle]

I grew up in the South during the civil rights struggle. I am not interested in watching Texas, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana trample all over the people's rights again in my lifetime. They would do it again in a New York second, if allowed to.

Some would argue that the civil rights of new and genetically distinct human beings are being trampled on today.

...and some would be wrong, because legally, a fetus is not a human being, at least until it is a viable life outside the womb.

DNA says they are new and genetically distinct human beings.

Viability does not determine humanity. If it did then anyone who was not viable due to injury or illness would not be human.

That sounds like a Trumpism. It makes no sense at all. Viable means able to live. It does not mean able to live unassisted.

Same difference.

You are being absolutely ridiculous, and frankly, I won't dignify that statement with a response.

 

[DOTR]

Every creature on the planet is a unique being. What makes a fertilized human egg different from the fertilized egg of any other mammal?

Human biological parents.

You may soon have to come up with a better definition. In vitro fertilization, cloning, surrogate parents, changing the DNA of a zygote are just the beginning. Soon I'll be able to take my DNA, put it into a pig's egg and have the pig deliver my baby. Not something I advocate but it will be technically possible. Is that baby human?

No you wont. There is not even any hope or hint of success in transplanting ova and bringing to term between genera much less between family or orders.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If men could get pregnant, abortion would never have been illegal in the first place.

How do you explain pro-life/ anti abortion women and the fact that many of them are women who have already had an abortion and now regret it?

I explain it the same way that I explain Trump voters. Never overestimate the intelligence of the average American voter.

You are dodging the question.

Chuz, you have been pushing the anti choice agenda for so long that you have totally lost sight of the fact that if people want an abortion, they will have one, and if they don't, they won't. The only change that would occur if you succeeded in outlawing it would be that some doctors might go to prison or lose their licenses. There has never even been a penalty to the woman involved. You are blind to the fact that before Roe VS. Wade, gynecologist's most frequent procedure was D & C's. If they couldn't do that, there was always the vacation trip to a foreign country. For the poor, there was the friendly neighborhood abortionist. Frank Sinatra's mother used to do them, back in Hoboken. Your time would be better spent preaching hell and damnation to women directly. That would overcome my objections, anyway.

 

[alang1216]

Every creature on the planet is a unique being. What makes a fertilized human egg different from the fertilized egg of any other mammal?

Human biological parents.

You may soon have to come up with a better definition. In vitro fertilization, cloning, surrogate parents, changing the DNA of a zygote are just the beginning. Soon I'll be able to take my DNA, put it into a pig's egg and have the pig deliver my baby. Not something I advocate but it will be technically possible. Is that baby human?

No you wont. There is not even any hope or hint of success in transplanting ova and bringing to term between genera much less between family or orders.

Hardly the point but how about a woman copies her DNA, puts it into her own egg, and gives birth to a baby. Is that baby human? It is neither unique nor does it have two parents.

 

[DOTR]

Margaret Sanger believed that abortion was an abomination.

Proves there is no natural boundry to the depths of the liberal slippery slope. it is also a fact that early feminists fought to build a society where women could remain at home and care for children.
Liberalism is a poison with no logical stopping point.

 

[DOTR]

Every creature on the planet is a unique being. What makes a fertilized human egg different from the fertilized egg of any other mammal?

Human biological parents.

You may soon have to come up with a better definition. In vitro fertilization, cloning, surrogate parents, changing the DNA of a zygote are just the beginning. Soon I'll be able to take my DNA, put it into a pig's egg and have the pig deliver my baby. Not something I advocate but it will be technically possible. Is that baby human?

No you wont. There is not even any hope or hint of success in transplanting ova and bringing to term between genera much less between family or orders.

Hardly the point but how about a woman copies her DNA, puts it into her own egg, and gives birth to a baby. Is that baby human? It is neither unique nor does it have two parents.

Get back to me when that happens.