The confederates were assholes but knocking down their statues makes you an asshole too

[martybegan]

That's the way I look at it.

For the most part they were also forgiven and rehabilitated assholes. If the Union wanted to execute them for treason, they could have, but that might have started a gorilla campaign we could still be fighting today.

They surrendered, they came back to the Union, and in return the people who beat them forgave them and allowed them to honor the loss and their dead as they saw fit.

There is no honor in what the Confederacy did.

There was honor at the end, when they admitted they lost, surrendered, and willingly integrated back into the United States.

They could have kept fighting non conventionally, they didn't.

Yes. The best thing you can say about the confederacy is they gave up.

Kinda.

The south spent the next 100 years finding new ways to subjugate black people. Which is part of how these statutes came to be in the first place.

The issues of the failure of Reconstruction are separate. The issue here is the honoring of fallen Confederates as well as their failed leaders.

Considering that the Jim Crow laws were subjugating blacks de jure, the installation of monuments pales in comparison.

The one exception is that one memorial in New Orleans that was specifically a memorial to an white "uprising" that happened during reconstruction.

Battle of Liberty Place Monument - Wikipedia

They are not separate. The statues were placed during segregation as a reminder of who retained power.

They are, by and large, explicit symbols of oppression.

Why would they need reminders when they had all the power, and were abusing it?

This was also the time the leaders were dying off, and the veterans were getting older.

Their leaders died well before the vast majority of these were placed. Lee died just a few years after they surrendered, having lost his property and ability to vote or hold office.

The civil war should be remembered most for being the biggest mistake we’ve ever made. Not to honor those who made it.

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

You do realize that slavery might have gone on for at least another decade or two if the Civil War didn't happen, right?

Lincoln's policy was just to limit Slavery, not ban it. His platform was to deny spread of slavery by law to any new territories or States.

Nothing in the Republican platform was about federal law banning slavery where it already existed.

 

[colfax_m]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

 

[martybegan]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

 

[colfax_m]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

 

[martybegan]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

 

[anynameyouwish]

That's the way I look at it.

and how does politicalchic feel about this?

she says that the south were all EVIL DEMOCRATS who embraced slavery.....

does SHE think these statues should be knocked down?

does SHE think they are statues of
"EVIL DEMOCRATS who STARTED SLAVERY and the KKK and JIM CROW laws"

or does she think they are statues of
"Honorable Southern Conservative Christians who DEFENDED FREEDOM (to own slaves) from NORTHERN TYRANNICAL YANKEE AGGRESSION!"

I'd like to know what the MADwoman thinks.....

 

[colfax_m]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

That's the way I look at it.

For the most part they were also forgiven and rehabilitated assholes. If the Union wanted to execute them for treason, they could have, but that might have started a gorilla campaign we could still be fighting today.

They surrendered, they came back to the Union, and in return the people who beat them forgave them and allowed them to honor the loss and their dead as they saw fit.

There is no honor in what the Confederacy did.

Another person who has no idea what they are saying.
You have to understand the education/mentality of the average southern white.
Most confederate soldiers were not fighting to maintain slavery per say.
Instead they believed what they were told - that the end of slavery was going to result in bands of armed blacks raping and murdering their previous owners. They believed the northerners were going to take over their lands and give it to the slaves.

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

Ohhh.... so then YOU get to choose who is more worthy than others.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

If I lived back then, I'd gladly have shot the rebel scum if I was a soldier for the Union.

But let bygones be bygones, they're heroes to the people they fought for.

Don't tear down statutes of heroes, even heroes who fought for the wrong side.

Where can I find statues of all of the Nazi heroes??

 

[anynameyouwish]

If I lived back then, I'd gladly have shot the rebel scum if I was a soldier for the Union.

But let bygones be bygones, they're heroes to the people they fought for.

Don't tear down statutes of heroes, even heroes who fought for the wrong side.

"Don't tear down statutes of heroes, even heroes who fought for the wrong side."


I have every suspicion that if there were a statue to Obama conservatives would have already toppled it.

 

[martybegan]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

I also like how these neo-confederate racists ignore what Lee said about their confederate monument fetish

 

[anynameyouwish]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

"According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson. "

so they subscribe to the conservative playbook

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

"According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson. "

so they subscribe to the conservative playbook

As well as they fail to see the enormous irony that a group of white fascist and blacks have joined together. Yeah... this will end well.

 

[martybegan]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

"According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson. "

so they subscribe to the conservative playbook

Where are conservatives trying to remove statues and memorials?

FDR was a government increasing asshole, but he won WWII. Where are the calls for his statue to come down?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

"According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson. "

so they subscribe to the conservative playbook

Where are conservatives trying to remove statues and memorials?

FDR was a government increasing asshole, but he won WWII. Where are the calls for his statue to come down?

Instead conservatives are trying to do away with one of the most popular government programs in US history...social security.....

So how about a trade.....you tear down FDR statues in exchange for leaving Social Security the fuck alone....deal?

 

[BlueGin]

That's the way I look at it.

For the most part they were also forgiven and rehabilitated assholes. If the Union wanted to execute them for treason, they could have, but that might have started a gorilla campaign we could still be fighting today.

They surrendered, they came back to the Union, and in return the people who beat them forgave them and allowed them to honor the loss and their dead as they saw fit.

There is no honor in what the Confederacy did.

Lefties don’t even know what honor is. Look at the things you support. Torturing puppies while live streaming, Stabbing police horses ,watching a man die as shown by looters who shot him via live streaming on social media ),shooting cops in the back of the head. Mobs beating people with bricks.

You can shut up about “ honor”.

Someone has seriously abused your mind.

I’ll care what you think when you address actual modern day slavery in a serious way instead of faux rage over statues.

 

[BlueGin]

That's the way I look at it.

For the most part they were also forgiven and rehabilitated assholes. If the Union wanted to execute them for treason, they could have, but that might have started a gorilla campaign we could still be fighting today.

They surrendered, they came back to the Union, and in return the people who beat them forgave them and allowed them to honor the loss and their dead as they saw fit.

There is no honor in what the Confederacy did.

There was honor at the end, when they admitted they lost, surrendered, and willingly integrated back into the United States.

They could have kept fighting non conventionally, they didn't.

Yes. The best thing you can say about the confederacy is they gave up.

Kinda.

The south spent the next 100 years finding new ways to subjugate black people. Which is part of how these statutes came to be in the first place.

The issues of the failure of Reconstruction are separate. The issue here is the honoring of fallen Confederates as well as their failed leaders.

Considering that the Jim Crow laws were subjugating blacks de jure, the installation of monuments pales in comparison.

The one exception is that one memorial in New Orleans that was specifically a memorial to an white "uprising" that happened during reconstruction.

Battle of Liberty Place Monument - Wikipedia

They are not separate. The statues were placed during segregation as a reminder of who retained power.

They are, by and large, explicit symbols of oppression.

Nancy Pelosi’s father erected several. Are you at her doorstep rioting?

 

[martybegan]

Monuments go up after people die, that's not unique to this situation.

Really? Everyone gets a monument or do people who did something important and noteworthy?

A monument is to honor. We don’t honor people who made such enormous mistakes.

Their actions were important and noteworthy, even if they lost, and even if part of the cause they were fighting for was wrong by our standards today.

So tell me who gets a monument for doing something “noteworthy” but was wrong?

Well just look at Columbus. Look at Jefferson and Washington. hell look at Andrew Jackson. You can find "wrong" things about all of them.

Overseas look at Cromwell, Look at Maximillian Robspierre.

Even Lenin has a statue of him in the US.

Yes, but there are a lot of things to celebrate about Jefferson, for example. His defining characteristic was not his slave holding but his contribution to our independence and early government.

Lee is being honored specifically for the thing that we consider a huge mistake.

According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson.

Lee is honored for his tactical mastery, and his conciliatory tone after defeat.

"According to current SJW metrics, one bad thing makes you an unperson. "

so they subscribe to the conservative playbook

Where are conservatives trying to remove statues and memorials?

FDR was a government increasing asshole, but he won WWII. Where are the calls for his statue to come down?

Instead conservatives are trying to do away with one of the most popular government programs in US history...social security.....

So how about a trade.....you tear down FDR statues in exchange for leaving Social Security the fuck alone....deal?

Social security will destroy itself in 25 years or so. I will probably be one of the first groups to put in and maybe get less out than promised.

Again, my disagreements with FDR's domestic policy are minimal compared to my admiration on how he fought WWII.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

That's the way I look at it.

For the most part they were also forgiven and rehabilitated assholes. If the Union wanted to execute them for treason, they could have, but that might have started a gorilla campaign we could still be fighting today.

They surrendered, they came back to the Union, and in return the people who beat them forgave them and allowed them to honor the loss and their dead as they saw fit.

There is no honor in what the Confederacy did.

Lefties don’t even know what honor is. Look at the things you support. Torturing puppies while live streaming, Stabbing police horses ,watching a man die as shown by looters who shot him via live streaming on social media ),shooting cops in the back of the head. Mobs beating people with bricks.

You can shut up about “ honor”.

Someone has seriously abused your mind.

I’ll care what you think when you address actual modern day slavery in a serious way instead of faux rage over statues.

What has the Trump govt to address modern day slavery?

I'll wait.....

I am sure you know all about what is happening in Mauritania don't you??

Or do you just say this shit because you think it justifies slavery??

Activists warn over slavery as Mauritania joins U.N. human rights council

Mauritania is backsliding in efforts to eliminate descent-based slavery, an activist and opposition member has warned, as the West African country joined the U.N. Human Rights Council for the first time this week.

www.reuters.com