The Official Trump/Harris Debate Thread....With Live Feed

[JoeB131]

I didn't lie.

When criminals do things that are unethical or illegal they aren't going to make sure there's evidence left to prosecute.

I'm relating about reports in the media about babies who were delivered and may have had birth defects and the doctors came to the parents to ask if they wanted to try to save the baby or let it die. I'm not making shit up like Kamala does. Saving the baby regardless of their condition is supposed to be part of a doctor's hypocritical oath.

Obamacare was designed to allow a "Death Panel" to decide if a person can get treatment or not. Some of them will say just give a person (who needs expensive treatment to cure them) to just take a pill for the pain.



It shouldn't be up to the state, or public insurance programs, to decide who lives and who dies. This is the case in countries like Canada and the UK now because they've both gone socialist. But they can go into our schools and talk our kids into cutting their tits off and ruin their lives without their parent's say so.

1) Doctors only tell parents what their options are. If the choice is between extremely expensive treatments that will only delay the inevitable, or make the baby comfortable until it's time comes, that's a very personal decision, and the government needs to butt the fuck out.

2) Same thing with the supposed "Death Panels" It's not a matter of "cure", it's a matter of best treatments related to palliative care. 11% of medical spending in the US is on patients who are terminal, but delaying the inevitable.

3) There are death panels, but they work for the insurance companies. Look up Nataline Sarkisyan.

 

[braalian]

1) Doctors only tell parents what their options are. If the choice is between extremely expensive treatments that will only delay the inevitable, or make the baby comfortable until it's time comes, that's a very personal decision, and the government needs to butt the fuck out.

2) Same thing with the supposed "Death Panels" It's not a matter of "cure", it's a matter of best treatments related to palliative care. 11% of medical spending in the US is on patients who are terminal, but delaying the inevitable.

3) There are death panels, but they work for the insurance companies. Look up Nataline Sarkisyan.

Right.

Sadly, a newborn baby can be a candidate for palliative or hospice care just like an adult. A terminal prognosis is a terminal prognosis.

Giving a dying newborn pain medication until they inevitably pass is no more “murder” than giving a dying 90 year old pain medicine until they pass

 

[postman]

1) Doctors only tell parents what their options are. If the choice is between extremely expensive treatments that will only delay the inevitable, or make the baby comfortable until it's time comes, that's a very personal decision, and the government needs to butt the fuck out.

2) Same thing with the supposed "Death Panels" It's not a matter of "cure", it's a matter of best treatments related to palliative care. 11% of medical spending in the US is on patients who are terminal, but delaying the inevitable.

3) There are death panels, but they work for the insurance companies. Look up Nataline Sarkisyan.

Face it. They use dog whistles to get their followers hungry for red meat. Even though what they illustrate is somewhere between extremely rare, and non-existent.

 

[martybegan]

This is a permission slip.

Not a transfer of guardianship.

It is a temporary transfer of such during the trip. If it isn't what exactly is it?

 

[Unkotare]

When I first moved to Clarksville TN, there was a Vietnamese family a couple houses down the street who kept cats and dogs in pens in their back yard that they were killing to eat.

They would somehow find them and put them in cages to eat them later.

We used to go back there at night and open the cages. Some of them found permanent homes instead of becoming food for those sick mofos.

Why were they "sick mofos"? People eat animals.

 

[postman]

It is a temporary transfer of such during the trip. If it isn't what exactly is it?

A permission slip is merely put in writing, for the record, what is done thousands of times verbally.

When I drop my kid off to grandma, or bring in a babysitter, I grant them permission to look after my child.

That's all. It does not grant any form of guardianship.

A babysitter is not considered a legal guardian. Babysitters have physical custody over the children they watch, but not legal custody.

 

[martybegan]

A permission slip is merely put in writing, for the record, what is done thousands of times verbally.

When I drop my kid off to grandma, or bring in a babysitter, I grant them permission to look after my child.

That's all. It does not grant any form of guardianship.

A babysitter is not considered a legal guardian. Babysitters have physical custody over the children they watch, but not legal custody.

When you sign the form you are giving them a form of guardianship especially when travelling.

For that specific purpose, for the trip.

You want to let advocates move children to places they can get abortions, yes or no?

If yes, fuck you, If no, then you are needless arguing.

 

[mudwhistle]

Why were they "sick mofos"? People eat animals.

You don't eat your neighbor's pets.

You do know that killing cats and dogs is against the law in America, right?

When in Rome......

 

[Unkotare]

You don't eat your neighbor's pets.

You do know that killing cats and dogs is against the law in America, right?

When in Rome......

If they took a pet, they broke the law. I do think it's illegal to buy or sell dog meat in the US. I'm not sure about horse.

 

[Luckyone]

You don't eat your neighbor's pets.

You do know that killing cats and dogs is against the law in America, right?

When in Rome......

 

[JoeB131]

You don't eat your neighbor's pets.

You do know that killing cats and dogs is against the law in America, right?

When in Rome......

You realize the whole eating pets thing has been debunked, and Trump clowned himself on national TV.

That and his missing a perfectly good opening on immigration to whine about his "tiny" crowds.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Medical ethics would not allow an abortion? Then why are there no restrictions?

Read the post again and figure it out

 

[postman]

If yes, fuck you, If no, then you are needless arguing.

You're the one needlessly arguing when you restricted out of state travel overseen to only parents and guardians.

And you left out everything from church groups, to schools, to little league teams traveling out of state without their parents or guardians.

Your narrow minded vision with "no exceptions" is what got you in trouble.

 

[Luckyone]

You realize the whole eating pets thing has been debunked, and Trump clowned himself on national TV.

That and his missing a perfectly good opening on immigration to whine about his "tiny" crowds.

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 1009854

Is that what he meant by "Grab them by the Pussy!"

 

[Unkotare]

The moderator BIAS was so obvious AND they could not resist jumping into the debate making it 3 on 1 the assholes. God, when did Democrats become such assholes??

When they founded the party.

 

[martybegan]

You're the one needlessly arguing when you restricted out of state travel overseen to only parents and guardians.

And you left out everything from church groups, to schools, to little league teams traveling out of state without their parents or guardians.

Your narrow minded vision with "no exceptions" is what got you in trouble.

All of which the parents have to give PERMISSION FOR. Yes or no?

Nah, you just want to argue semantics because you can't argue the actual topic.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I guess you don't understand what no restrictions mean. And ethics are in the eye of the beholder and an abortionist is in the business of abortion.

You find me the laws that say that its medically unethical to abort a healthy almost full term baby when their laws state that there are no restrictions. I think you're dead ass wrong.

I've read numerous sources and found no mention of restrictions based on health of the fetus or viability when the law states that there are no restrictions.

No restrictions mean no restrictions.

This conversation is stupid and pointless and born of right wing hysteria and lies

Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era | KFF

This brief explains why individuals may seek abortions later in pregnancy, how often these procedures occur, and the various laws which regulate access to abortions later in pregnancy across the country.

www.kff.org

Introduction​

Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestational age are rare. They are often difficult to obtain, as they are only available in a handful of states, performed by a small subset of abortion providers and are typically costly and time-intensive. Yet, these abortions receive a disproportionate share of attention in the news, policy and the law. Discussions on this topic are often fraught with misinformation; for example, intense public discussions have been sparked after several presidential candidates claimed there were abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth.” In reality, these scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal, in the United States.

Some states have also passed laws banning clinicians from performing certain abortion procedures that are commonly used in later abortions (Figure 2). Almost all abortions performed at or after 21 weeks are performed by a dilation and evacuation (D&E) procedure (93–95% per CDC data).

Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestation are rare. According to the CDC’s Abortion Surveillance Data for 2021, prior to the Dobbs decision, the vast number of abortions (96%) occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation, and just 1% of abortions were performed at or after 21 weeks (Figure 3).

​

Clarifying Pregnancy Dating: pregnancies are measured using gestational age (GA), calculated in days and weeks since the first day of the last menstrual period (LMP). Since some people do not know the date of their LMP, ultrasound can also be used to calculate GA. Post-fertilization or fertilization age refers to the time since the egg and sperm fused to create a fertilized egg. Fertilization occurs approximately 2 weeks after menses, thus gestational age by LMP predates fertilization age by ~2 weeks. By convention, gestational age is used to discuss pregnancy dating as most pregnant individuals know their LMP, however certain abortion regulations reference fertilization age instead.

How do states restrict or regulate abortions later in pregnancy?​

On June 24, 2022, in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health, the Supreme Court overturned Roe and eliminated the federal constitutional standard that had protected the right to abortion. Without any federal standards, states can now set their own policies banning or protecting abortion at any point in pregnancy. This has drastically changed the landscape of abortion in the United States, as 14 states have now banned abortion at any stage of pregnancy and 11 others have gestational limits banning abortion after a certain point in pregnancy, such as before cardiac activity is detected in the fetus or up to a certain number of weeks of pregnancy.
However, in states without abortion bans or gestational bans before 22 weeks LMP, access to abortions later in pregnancy is often limited for many reasons, including viability bans, bans on certain abortion procedures, and a limited number of abortion providers who are trained or willing to provide abortions later in pregnancy. While viability, the point when a fetus can survive outside the womb, is no longer the federal standard that defines the legality of abortion in the U.S., 16 states that still allow abortions currently have laws restricting abortion at “viability” or at 24 weeks LMP / 3rd trimester, when viability is presumed to occur (Figure 1). These states have abortion exemptions similar to the exemptions in abortion bans (such as to preserve the health or life of the pregnant person) and gestational limits, defining when an abortion is allowed to be performed after viability. Most of the 11 states that restrict abortions at “viability” define it as the point where a physician or other healthcare provider determines whether a fetus can survive outside the womb. Four of these states include language in their abortion policies defining viability as the point where there is a likelihood that the fetus could survive without the “application of extraordinary measures” and another three states have language clarifying the fetus could survive with or without extraordinary measures.

How common are abortions later in pregnancy?​

Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestation are rare. According to the CDC’s Abortion Surveillance Data for 2021, prior to the Dobbs decision, the vast number of abortions (96%) occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation, and just 1% of abortions were performed at or after 21 weeks (Figure 3). This amounts to approximately 4,100 abortions per year occurring at or after 21 weeks. However, this estimate only includes the 41 reporting areas that report abortions to the CDC by gestational age and excludes major states such as California and New York. The percentage of abortions occurring at or before 13 weeks gestation has remained stable over the last few decades at 91-92%, however within this timeframe, more abortions are occurring earlier in pregnancy, at or before 9 weeks. This is likely in part due to the greater availability of medication abortions over the last two decades.

Why do people have abortions later in pregnancy?​

Individuals seek abortions later in pregnancy for a number of reasons. As part of the Turnaway study out of the University of California San Francisco, from 2008-2010 over 440 women were asked about why they experienced delays in obtaining abortion care, if any (Figure 4). Almost half of individuals who obtained an abortion after 20 weeks did not suspect they were pregnant until later in pregnancy, and other barriers to care included lack of information about where to access an abortion, transportation difficulties, lack of insurance coverage and inability to pay for the procedure. A 2022 study of patients seeking abortions later in pregnancy found that they fell into two categories: either they had learned new information about their pregnancies that made them no longer desirable, such as not finding out they were pregnant until very late in the pregnancy or the emergence of serious fetal or their own health issue; or experiencing barriers to abortion services earlier in the pregnancy that force them to delay the abortion until the third trimester.

 

[Luckyone]

The moderator BIAS was so obvious AND they could not resist jumping into the debate making it 3 on 1 the assholes. God, when did Democrats become such assholes??

Well these assholes have been able to accomplish this:

and during this time, the Republicans were able to accomplish this:

Who are the assholes?

 

[BluesLegend]

Anger and bitterness is not a good counter to Joy and Hope.

We get you guys are angry. History hasn't unfolded the way you want.

Dem creeps will reap the whirlwind.