The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[AllieBaba]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

 

[rikules]

Ii'd rather live in a christian nation than a commie nation any day...

I rest my case. Say goodbye to religious freedom.

No, you fucking idiot. Calling the US a Christian nation in no way reduces the rights of anyone to practice religion. Negating Christianity, however, does. You're saying that if a person dares to bring religion into their politics on a personal level, if we DARE to refer to religion anywhere outside a church, that is restricting religious freedom.
You are saying (over and over again) that religious freedom can only be attained if we suppress Christianity.
Fucking nitwit.

well
you fucking nitwit
he isn't saying THAT at all

it seems to me that he is merely stating (I hope I am right in my assertion)
right wing evangelical dominionist christians are ACTIVELY working to create a christian theocracy (something I believe)
and in a CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY OTHER PEOPLES RELIGIOUS FREEDOM would go out the window

let's fact it
you fucking nitwit

the 10 commandments do NOT say "thou can worship ANY GOD thou wishest!"

it SPECIFICALLY SAYS (4 times, you fucking nitwit)
"THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY GOD BUT MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME~!"

 

[AllieBaba]

I rest my case. Say goodbye to religious freedom.

No, you fucking idiot. Calling the US a Christian nation in no way reduces the rights of anyone to practice religion. Negating Christianity, however, does. You're saying that if a person dares to bring religion into their politics on a personal level, if we DARE to refer to religion anywhere outside a church, that is restricting religious freedom.
You are saying (over and over again) that religious freedom can only be attained if we suppress Christianity.
Fucking nitwit.

Nice Christian language

I know, I should suppress it, shouldn't I? How dare I accurately describe your idiocy.

 

[AllieBaba]

I rest my case. Say goodbye to religious freedom.

No, you fucking idiot. Calling the US a Christian nation in no way reduces the rights of anyone to practice religion. Negating Christianity, however, does. You're saying that if a person dares to bring religion into their politics on a personal level, if we DARE to refer to religion anywhere outside a church, that is restricting religious freedom.
You are saying (over and over again) that religious freedom can only be attained if we suppress Christianity.
Fucking nitwit.

well
you fucking nitwit
he isn't saying THAT at all

it seems to me that he is merely stating (I hope I am right in my assertion)
right wing evangelical dominionist christians are ACTIVELY working to create a christian theocracy (something I believe)
and in a CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY OTHER PEOPLES RELIGIOUS FREEDOM would go out the window

let's fact it
you fucking nitwit

the 10 commandments do NOT say "thou can worship ANY GOD thou wishest!"
it SPECIFICALLY SAYS (4 times, you fucking nitwit)
"THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY GOD BUT MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME~!"

Yes, she is saying exactly what I said she said. She has a long and well documented history of saying it.

I love the way you guys pretend you mean something other than what you say.

 

[JBeukema]

Dogma has no place in Government. Principle does.

 

[rikules]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

the US has ALWAYS enjoyed religious freedom

our founding fathers SPECIFICALLY stated FREEDOM OF religion

freedom OF includes freedom FROM

the words "America is a christian nation" are NOT in the contitution

ALL Americans have ALWAYS had the CONSTTUTIONAL right to practice ANY religion or even NO religion.

MOST christian morals/laws are not only NOT laws in America but are ALSO unconstitutional

America is a SECULAR nation

 

[Sky Dancer]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

We're debating points of view, potty mouth. Your view is the US is a Christian theocracy. It's not a Christian nation just because most US citizens happen to be Christian.

 

[AllieBaba]

of course you would

because in a christian nation you'd be a relatively free man

while only the people you hate (liberals, atheists, homosexuals, wiccans, democrats, intellectuals, evolutionists, abortionists) would have to live in fear

personally I'd rather live in a FREE country than a christian country

but
if I had to choose between a nation (christian) that would take away MY Rights and freedoms

or a nation (communist) that would take away YOUR rights and freedoms...

well

you can guess......

Wise up....you already live in a free country....many thanks to your Christian forebearers....

Today the real threat is not from the Christian right.....that is a commie lie...

commies might say it but I have arrived at the conclusion that righ twing evangelical christians are trying real hard to take over our government NOT from any communist tract (which I have NEVER read) but, rather, from listening to the words of right wing evangelical conservative christians themselves.

remember
if a tree falls in the woods it DOES make a sound even if you don't hear it.

just because you have done a wonderful job of refusing to hear or read the words of the wel-organized right wing evangelical nutcases does NOT mean that they haven't spoken

Yeah. Name one. And provide a quote.

 

[rikules]

.....just how many dominionists are there exactly.....?

still waiting...

it only takes a few

just place them in the right places and let them go to work

put them on tv and give them hate radio talk shows and watch them bring in the converts

 

[JBeukema]

Well, if the posters here would stop misrepresenting and twisting the facts about our founding fathers and what the first amendment stands for we probably would not have an argument here....

Jefferson liked this proposal for our Nation's Seal so much that he took it for his own, when it was not used for our Nation.

Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God - Ben Franklin's Motto for America

None the less, Jefferson and Franklin were Deists, not Christians. An important distinction. They took great care to craft governing documents based on reason, not religion.

No, Jefferson was a Christian by his own admission. Yes, Franklin was a Deist, although he questioned his Deist beliefs later in life. See my reply to you earlier (post #415).

Not quite. He called himself a Christian, but did so while redefining the world to mean something totally different- like democratic socialists and progressives calling themselves liberals.


If only I still had that Jefferon Bible.

[SIZE=+1] I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other. [/SIZE]

This puts him at odds with a fundamental pillar of Christian theology.

The Jefferson Bible: Syllabus

 

[JBeukema]

The new Government has my best Wishes and most fervent Prayers, for its Success and Prosperity: but whether I shall have any Thing more to do with it, besides praying for it, depends on the future suffrages of Freemen.
Letter to Thomas Jefferson (2 January 1789)

Thanks to God that he gave me stubbornness when I know I am right.
Letter to Edmund Jenings (1782),

I am surprised at the suddenness as well as the greatness of this revolution... It is the will of Heaven that the two countries should be sundered forever. It may be the will of Heaven that America shall suffer calamities still more wasting, and distresses yet more dreadful. If this is to be the case it will have this good effect at least. It will inspire us with many virtues which we have not, and correct many errors, follies, and vices which threaten to disturb, dishonor, and destroy us. The furnace of affliction produces refinement in states as well as individuals. And the new Governments we are assuming in every part will require a purification from our vices, and an augmentation of our virtues, or they will be no blessings. The people will have unbounded power, and the people are extremely addicted to corruption and venality, as well as the great. But I must submit all my hopes and fears to an overruling Providence, in which, unfashionable as the faith may be, I firmly believe.
Letter to Abigail Adams (3 July 1776)

The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forevermore.
Letter to Abigail Adams (3 July 1776)

I have thought proper to recommend, and I do hereby recommend accordingly, that Thursday, the 25th day of April next, be observed throughout the United States of America as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that the citizens on that day abstain as far as may be from their secular occupations, devote the time to the sacred duties of religion in public and in private; that they call to mind our numerous offenses against the Most High God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore His pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgressions, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience to His righteous requisitions in time to come; that He would interpose to arrest the progress of that impiety and licentiousness in principle and practice so offensive to Himself and so ruinous to mankind; that He would make us deeply sensible that "righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach' to any people;" that He would turn us from our transgressions and turn His displeasure from us; that He would withhold us from unreasonable discontent, from disunion, faction, sedition, and insurrection; that He would preserve our country from the desolating sword; that He would save our cities and towns from a repetition of those awful pestilential visitations under which they have lately suffered so severely, and that the health of our inhabitants generally may be precious in His sight; that He would favor us with fruitful seasons and so bless the labors of the husbandman as that there may be food in abundance for man and beast; that He would prosper our commerce, manufactures, and fisheries, and give success to the people in all their lawful industry and enterprise; that He would smile on our colleges, academies, schools, and seminaries of learning, and make them nurseries of sound science, morals, and religion; that He would bless all magistrates, from the highest to the lowest, give them the true spirit of their station, make them a terror to evil doers and a praise to them that do well; that He would preside over the councils of the nation at this critical period, enlighten them to a just discernment of the public interest, and save them from mistake, division, and discord; that He would make succeed our preparations for defense and bless our armaments by land and by sea; that He would put an end to the effusion of human blood and the accumulation of human misery among the contending nations of the earth by disposing them to justice, to equity, to benevolence, and to peace; and that he would extend the blessings of knowledge, of true liberty, and of pure and undefiled religion throughout the world.
John Adams Presidential proclamation of a national day of fasting and prayer (6 March 1789)

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

Name one politician that doesn't do the same in the history of this country.
Where is any of that in the LAW?
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their religions.

And those laws are based upon Christian values and tenets. /quote]


Actually, they're based on Liberal ideas and tenants.

Our lawmakers swear on BIBLES to uphold the law, to tell the truth, to support the Constitution.]

Which is itself arguably unconstitutional.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

the US has ALWAYS enjoyed religious freedom

our founding fathers SPECIFICALLY stated FREEDOM OF religion

freedom OF includes freedom FROM

the words "America is a christian nation" are NOT in the contitution

ALL Americans have ALWAYS had the CONSTTUTIONAL right to practice ANY religion or even NO religion.

MOST christian morals/laws are not only NOT laws in America but are ALSO unconstitutional

America is a SECULAR nation

Sounds great.
But we aren't a secular nation. A secular nation doesn't require elected officials to be SWORN in on the bible. A secular nation doesn't print money that says "In God We Trust". A secular nation doesn't have a Declaration of Independence which refers to a Creator.

The rest of your rant is just a lunatic rant. Carry on.

 

[rikules]

Wise up....you already live in a free country....many thanks to your Christian forebearers....

Today the real threat is not from the Christian right.....that is a commie lie...

commies might say it but I have arrived at the conclusion that righ twing evangelical christians are trying real hard to take over our government NOT from any communist tract (which I have NEVER read) but, rather, from listening to the words of right wing evangelical conservative christians themselves.

remember
if a tree falls in the woods it DOES make a sound even if you don't hear it.

just because you have done a wonderful job of refusing to hear or read the words of the wel-organized right wing evangelical nutcases does NOT mean that they haven't spoken

Yeah. Name one. And provide a quote.

pat robertson

who created the powerful and influential ACLJ

and who created the CHRISTAN COALITION

and who owns tv and radio stations form which he broadcasts his theocratic beliefs daily

who blames liberals, atheist, homosexuals, wiccans etc for "god removing his cloak of protection"

who claims that the only way to get god to replace his cloak of protection is to "do something about the liberal problem"

one can find many quotes of his where he states his belief/plan to help "educate" (brainwash) the christian youth and then place them in powerful and influential positions with the intent of creating a christian theocracy

actually

I posted about 20 quotes of his last night PROVING what I say

I won't bother postingthem again because iI kow you are SOOOO brainwashed that you wil refuse to accept them

you probably won't even read them

you will, of course, deny them

I suggest that you google them for yourself
knowing full well that you won't

 

[JBeukema]

Well, if the posters here would stop misrepresenting and twisting the facts about our founding fathers and what the first amendment stands for we probably would not have an argument here....

Jefferson liked this proposal for our Nation's Seal so much that he took it for his own, when it was not used for our Nation.

Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God - Ben Franklin's Motto for America

None the less, Jefferson and Franklin were Deists, not Christians. An important distinction. They took great care to craft governing documents based on reason, not religion.

Was Deist even termed a word back then Sky? they were part of a movement called the enlightenment, they were Free Masons.

Christian and Free Mason

Kinda mutually exclusive, really, given what the two teach.

 

[AllieBaba]

Name one politician that doesn't do the same in the history of this country.
Where is any of that in the LAW?
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their religions.

And those laws are based upon Christian values and tenets. /quote]


Actually, they're based on Liberal ideas and tenants.

Our lawmakers swear on BIBLES to uphold the law, to tell the truth, to support the Constitution.]

Which is itself arguably unconstitutional.

Go ahead and prove that.

 

[JBeukema]

Why did they go to Church?

Why did Obama?


Social network, appearances, propriety...

 

[JBeukema]

Not only that, the church has ALWAYS been a corporation. It has to be, to support its endeavors.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Wise up....you already live in a free country....many thanks to your Christian forebearers....

Today the real threat is not from the Christian right.....that is a commie lie...

commies might say it but I have arrived at the conclusion that righ twing evangelical christians are trying real hard to take over our government NOT from any communist tract (which I have NEVER read) but, rather, from listening to the words of right wing evangelical conservative christians themselves.

remember
if a tree falls in the woods it DOES make a sound even if you don't hear it.

just because you have done a wonderful job of refusing to hear or read the words of the wel-organized right wing evangelical nutcases does NOT mean that they haven't spoken

Yeah. Name one. And provide a quote.

"I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag."
Ralph Reed, Christian Coalition, Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, November 9, 1991.

 

[JBeukema]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

the US has ALWAYS enjoyed religious freedom

our founding fathers SPECIFICALLY stated FREEDOM OF religion

freedom OF includes freedom FROM

the words "America is a christian nation" are NOT in the contitution

ALL Americans have ALWAYS had the CONSTTUTIONAL right to practice ANY religion or even NO religion.

MOST christian morals/laws are not only NOT laws in America but are ALSO unconstitutional

America is a SECULAR nation

Sounds great.
But we aren't a secular nation.

A secular nation doesn't require elected officials to be SWORN in on the bible.

And we don't. In fact, such a requirement constitutes a religious test and is illegal- read the Constitution.

A secular nation doesn't print money that says "In God We Trust"

And we didn't until McCarthyism and the rise of the Christian Right Wing

 

[AllieBaba]

You're wrong, Sky. You're wrong from the get go, where you laughably insist we aren't a Christian nation and have NEVER been a Christian nation. you can yammer all you like, but you're making an idiot of yourself by basing everything on a demonstrably FALSE PREMISE.

Grow the fuck up. If you want to argue that Christianity is a threat to freedom of religion and should therefore be shut down, just make that argument. But nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep mindlessly repeating the idiotic statement "The US isn't Christian and never has been. Those founding fathers guys weren't really Christians, either. Because if they were, they couldn't have supported freedom of religion".

Get in touch with reality. Or go light some incense and meditate or something. Because you come across as delusional.

We're debating points of view, potty mouth. Your view is the US is a Christian theocracy. It's not a Christian nation just because most US citizens happen to be Christian.

Er..no, my view is NOT that we are a theocracy.

Once again, your premise is wrong. You maintain that if the US is founded on Christian elements, it's a theocracy.

You're wrong. You've been told you're wrong. Everyone has said "we don't think it's a theocracy" but every time you are in a corner you trot out that egregious accusation again.

I know what a theocracy is. The US is not one. We are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, the first and foremost of which is INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, particularly FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

What the hell is your IQ? I don't usually care, but in your case I'm starting to feel bad because you don't seem capable of comprehending what is going on.