There is no such thing as a "Palestinian."

"Gaza fell first, and the attack continued northward until, after the Battle of the Yarmuk southeast of the Sea of Galilee (August 636), the Roman army withdrew from Palestine and Syria.* Jerusalem held out until the spring of 638.* Caesarea fell last, in 641 or 642, and with its conquest the Muslims ended seven centuries of Roman control in Palestine."

Palestine: History

Empires rise and fall, occupations always have their end.

And Palestinians remain in their homeland of Palestine throughout it all.
Illiterate and ignorant.

The people that remained in the land were Jews. Arabs came much later. Arabs did not call themselves or consider themselves Palestinians until the mid 1960's. Prior to 1948 if you called an Arab "Palestinian" it would be an INSULT because it meant you were calling him a JEW.

As usual you're full of baloney.

True story.
 
So now we need to address a new issue, why did the Jews steal Israel from the Jamaicans? :mad:
:lmao:

high%20five.jpg
 
I find it interesting seeing zionists bitch about Palestinian's wanting to "wipe them off the map",
in a thread titled "There is no such thing as a Palestinian."


You fuckers really push the envelope, when it comes to hypocrisy.
 
I find it interesting seeing zionists bitch about Palestinian's wanting to "wipe them off the map",
in a thread titled "There is no such thing as a Palestinian."


You fuckers really push the envelope, when it comes to hypocrisy.

They say there is no such thing as Israel.

We learn to speak each other's language is all.

I see it as a positive thingy:D
 
They say there is no such thing as Israel.

We learn to speak each other's language is all.

I see it as a positive thingy:D
The difference is, you only "claim" they wanna wipe you out; whereas, your side is actively "trying" to wipe them out by taking their land, taking their lives and taking their history.
 
In the austrian town in which my relatives lived pre world war II -----there is not a single surviving jew In the JEIWSH CITY OF YATHRIB----there is not a single surviving jew---
and the name of the city was changed to Medina ---after a pig was buried there.
What point are you struggling to make? Bad news for you----THERE ARE ALWAYS
SURVIVORS LONG LIVE JEWISH YATHRIB-----dig that pig out of the ground!!!

Again rosie, thanks for being such a fine representative of jews, israelis and zionists.

I don't even have to say anything, just let you post unhindered.
Again, thanks for proving a shining example of the stench of Islamic / Neo Nazi mentality.

Dr Martin Luther King said it best "anti Zionism is just the modern anti Semetism" :clap:

More hasbara.

That quote was claimed to have been made by MLK by a zionist, made at the home of a zionist at Harvard, and it has never been authenticated and is not included in any works of MLK quotes. There were several people present when it was made but no one other then then the 2 zionists have ever come forward to corroborate it.

In Wiki it is listed as "disputed" and this article rebutting it was published in "Counterpunch" in Jan 2004. Among it's many other points is the fact that MLK was not at Harvard (or Columbia) when it is alleged to have happened.

We won't not even go into the zionist HOAX letter written in support of this quote. That would be piling on...

Desperation and Drastic Measures
The Use and Abuse of Martin Luther King Jr. by Israel’s Apologists

by FADI KIBLAWI And WILL YOUMANS

In formal logic, Argumentum Ad Verecundiam refers to arguing a point with an appeal to authority. This type is categorized as a logical fallacy. Citing one seemingly authoritative source is simply not conclusive evidence, even if the authority is seen as an expert on the given subject.

For the sake of clarity, there are three degradations of this maxim enumerated in this essay. First, it is especially fallacious as proof when the quoted authority demonstrates no special knowledge on the subject. Second, when the authority who is not an expert on the given subject is also quoted out of context, the argument is even weaker. Third, the lowest violation of this formal logic principle is when an advocate uses a false rendition, or a fabricated quote, by the same authority who can claim no expertise.

This is the best framework for understanding how various exponents of Israel have used Martin Luther King Jr. to promote their cause.

Dr. King’s expertise as a non-violent civil rights leader and visionary are unparalleled in U.S. history. However, that does not make him an informed commentator on Middle Eastern affairs or on the ideological facets of Zionism. As impressive as the references to his views on Israel may seem, this is a textbook example of Argumentum Ad Verecundiam.

Finding direct and published utterances by Dr. King about the modern Middle East and Zionism is extremely rare. A cursory review of dozens of books on and by the civil rights leader turned up nothing.

Nonetheless, defenders of Israel often refer to a letter by Dr. King. This letter is reprinted in full on many web pages and in print. One example of a quotation derived from this letter is:

"… You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist’ … And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."

Antiracism writer Tim Wise checked the citation, which claimed that it originated from a "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend" in an August, 1967 edition of Saturday Review. In an article on January, 2003, essay he declared that he found no letters from Dr. King in any of the four August, 1967 editions. The authors of this essay verified Wise’s discovery. The letter was commonly cited to also have been published in a book by Dr. King entitled, "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." No such book was listed in the bibliography provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.
Soon afterwards, CAMERA, a rabidly pro-Israeli organization, published a statement declaring that the letter was "apparently" a hoax. CAMERA explained how it gained so much currency. The "letter" came from a "reputable" book, Shared Dreams, by Rabbi Marc Shneier. Martin Luther King III authored the preface for the book, giving the impression of familial approval. Also, the Anti-Defamation League’s Michael Salberg used the same quotes in his July 31st, 2001 testimony before the U.S. House of Representative’s International Relations Committee’s Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights.

The bogus letter was further quoted by writers in prominent publications one would imagine armed with fact-checkers capable of spending the short amount of time needed to verify the primary source. Mort Zuckerman, the editor-in-chief of the U.S. News & World Report quoted the letter in a column (9/17/01). Warren Kinsella followed suit in an article for Maclean’s (1/20/03). Commentary, which is known more for its ideological zeal than any appreciation for factual scruples, ran a piece by Natan Sharansky. He quoted the false passage as a block–some ten months after CAMERA declared it a hoax.

More recently, the Scholars for Peace in the Middle East (SPME) featured excerpts from the letter prominently on its website. Despite its name, SPME is an advocacy group seeking to bolster Israel’s image on campus–a mission it claims promotes peace in the region. Ironically, right under the false Dr. King quotation is an announcement of the formation of a task force "dealing with academic integrity with respect to fabricating and falsifying data when discussing the Middle East."
After one of the authors of this article informed SPME’s director of the quotation’s discredited status, he replied with hostility despite the simple verifiability of the claim that the citation is incorrect. After several exchanges he replaced it with another seemingly far-fetched quote:

Martin Luther King addressed the issue in 1968, in a speech at Harvard when he said: ".. You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist.’ …When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe…When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–make no mistake about it."

When a citation for this new quote was requested, he refused to provide one, leaving visitors only with its claim that Dr. King delivered it in a 1968 Harvard "speech." However, the language of SMPE’s new posting strongly resembles their original one — on account of the fact that it too comes from the same discredited "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend."

The first time the fake letter was quoted, it could have been a mistake, but to draw on different lines from the same fictitious letter is strikingly unscholarly — as is the false citation of it to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard. Either this citation was invented or taken from another unspecified source–classic plagiarism, whether intentional or out of gross negligence.

SPME’s reference to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard mirrors the details from a published account that appeared in two sources: First, it was in right-wing and ardently pro-Israeli sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset’s 1969 article in Encounter. Second, it was in a January, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle op/ed by Congressman John Lewis, who knew Dr. King personally.

Lipset wrote in his essay "The Socialism of Fools: The Left, the Jews & Israel" about a "dinner" for Dr. King he attended. When one black student made "some remark against the Zionists," Dr. King "snapped" back, "’When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism’."
The piece by Congressman Lewis also quotes this same remark though it is not clear if it is gathered from Lipset’s essay.

Congressman Lewis claims Dr. King made this comment "shortly before his death" during "an appearance at Harvard." Lipset states it was "shortly before he was assassinated" at a "dinnergiven for him in Cambridge." This quotation seems on its face much more credible. Yet, SPME presents snippets from the fake letter while apparently citing this statement (a 1968 "speech" at Harvard).

There are still, however, a few reasons for casting doubt on the authenticity of this statement. According to the Harvard Crimson, "The Rev. Martin Luther King was last in Cambridge almost exactly a year ago–April 23, 1967" ("While You Were Away" 4/8/68). If this is true, Dr. King could not have been in Cambridge in 1968. Lipset stated he was in the area for a "fund-raising mission," which would seem to imply a high profile visit. Also, an intensive inventory of publications by Stanford University’s Martin Luther King Jr. Papers Project accounts for numerous speeches in 1968. None of them are for talks in Cambridge or Boston.

While these points raise some doubt, let us assume that the quote is accurate.

This is where context comes in. One of the principal arguments of Lipset’s 1969 article is that the split between blacks and Jews "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." He identifies Jews as a dominating force within the civil rights movement. Black nationalist leadership wanted to distance themselves from Whites in the movement, Lipset argues. In Lipset’s own words, he summarized what Black nationalists were saying: "We don’t want whites, but we particularly don’t want Jews, and we are expressing antagonism to Jews in the form of opposition to Israel."

Few of the articles that cite Lipset’s essay mention this crucial context. One individual who did explore this, albeit crudely, still managed to contrive another Dr. King quote unimaginatively. Dr. Andrew Bostom, a medical professor at Brown University, wrote an article for Front Page Magazine (1/20/03) that was reprinted on former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s website. In it, he claimed that Dr. King had the "moral courage" to confront the anti-Jewish rhetoric of black left-wing and Muslim organizations. This is not to say that Dr. Bostom is a reliable source. Central to his article is a 347 word passage which he attributes to Dr. King. He fails to cite a source for the outlandish tirade. A quick google search determined it was lifted entirely from original material on the homepage of Famous Jews: Home (which has a copyright date of 2002), plus healthy portions of the fake "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend." Dr. Bostom’s article featured the least creative and perhaps most fraudulent doctored script yet: a patchwork of plagiarism.

Taking the context described by Lipset and Dr. Bostom to be generally correct for the sake of argument would shed light on the credible Dr. King quotes. If the movement he figured so prominently in was facing such a rift, his response was only natural. To borrow Lipset’s analysis then, Dr. King’s statement also "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." Given his local political anxieties, Dr. King was hardly the kind of disinterested authority worth quoting on the subject.

As a note: the actual validity of Lipset and Dr. Bostom’s views of that context is beyond the scope of this essay. While it is true that black nationalists, such as SNCC’s leadership, became increasingly critical of Israel after 1967, it is not convincing that the motive was to alienate American Jews even if that was the foreseeable effect. An ardent internationalist for example would care more about linking oppressed people’s struggles across the globe than they would about the relatively mainstream political movement for equality in the American polity.

Back to the main point: if the forged quotes reflecting Dr. King’s views on Israel were accurate, citing him would still be classic Argumentum Ad Verecundiam. Where is the proof that Dr. King studied the region or its modern history? The dearth of then-publicized comments and writings on the region by Dr. King shows that it was probably not a subject he was well-versed on, nor did it appear to be a priority of his throughout his career.

Even the statements Congressman Lewis attributes to him are low in substance and high on flourishing rhetoric. For example, Dr. King stated that Israel is a "marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy." Referring to it as "marvelous" and an "oasis" sounds rather uninformed given the realities of military occupation and the forced exile the Palestinians have witnessed since Israel’s foundation. They surely do not sound like the words of someone familiar with both sides of the story.

More significantly, as Tim Wise pointed out, Dr. King’s supposed statements on Zionism came before the more than three decades of crippling Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and the 1987 intifada that grabbed the world’s attention. The Palestinian narrative was sparsely conveyed in the United States up to that point. There were few Arabs or Palestinians in the U.S. and fewer Arab academics, policymakers, and activists working with Dr. King. Wise also suggests that application of Dr. King’s principles logically give way to more sympathy to the Palestinian side given the systematic inequality it faces.

That advocates of Israel have relied on fabricated and out-of-context quotations from a leading moral figure of yesteryear only underscores the absurdity of the general point that all opposition to a Jewish state in a diverse land is anti-Semitic. There are obviously many legitimate ways to critique Zionism. One quite reasonable observation is that after more than a half-century of conflict, the Zionist project has failed to bring the Jews of Israel peace and security–its raison d’etre. One might counter that this is due to Arab intransigence; the Palestinians should accept their dispossession. However, Palestinian opposition to this fate is an indisputable fact, and security was and is Zionism’s key goal. This necessarily was an analytical failure on the part of the Zionists who assumed the Palestinians would blend in to other Arab countries while the later generations forget their past. To dismiss this argument–one that evaluates Zionism by its own goals–and every other critique of Zionism as anti-Semitism is not only dishonest but a cowardly evasion of meaningful debate.

This is not to say that all opponents of Israel are not anti-Semitic. Of course the Palestinian cause, like all movements, is exploited by those with other agendas, such as David Duke and Osama Bin Laden. Blanket statements in either direction are inaccurate.

The main reason why critique of Zionism persists is that whether Israeli officials like it or not, history as it is written and the actual land are still disputed by the millions of Palestinians who are refugees as a result of Israel’s birth, the 3.5 million Palestinians living under Israel’s direct military rule, and the Palestinians who compose 20% of Israel’s citizens in second class status. If Israel was founded and developed on uncontested terrain then arguments against its existence would more likely be out of hatred against the Jewish people. For supporters of Israel to wipe away all critics of the methods and outcomes of Israel’s foundation with the "anti-Semitic" label denies completely the legitimacy of the Palestinian narrative–the experiences and perspectives that never show up in Dr. King’s imagined "oasis."

Dr. King, though long-passed, is still monumental in the continuing movement for civil rights in the United States. His legacy should be celebrated, and also critiqued constructively; it should not be falsified or stretched to accommodate a different agenda today. The context behind Dr. King’s authentic statements on Zionism was unique to a particular domestic political moment in order to sustain a fragile political coalition. Beyond that, Dr. King never claimed any expertise on the subject, nor made it a frequent topic of his speeches or writings. Claiming that all critiques of Zionism are anti-Semitic based on the force Martin Luther King Jr.’s words on the matter fails as an argument on many different levels.

What does all this prove? Zionists will even flog the legacy of a prominent yet dead civil rights leader like MLK to advance it's agenda.

Like a rented, servant donkey...

As long as it advances zionism, no hasbara moment is too filthy or despicable.
 
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Again rosie, thanks for being such a fine representative of jews, israelis and zionists.

I don't even have to say anything, just let you post unhindered.
Again, thanks for proving a shining example of the stench of Islamic / Neo Nazi mentality.

Dr Martin Luther King said it best "anti Zionism is just the modern anti Semetism" :clap:

More hasbara.

That quote was claimed to have been made by MLK by a zionist, made at the home of a zionist at Harvard, and it has never been authenticated and is not included in any works of MLK quotes. There were several people present when it was made but no one other then then the 2 zionists have ever come forward to corroborate it.

In Wiki it is listed as "disputed" and this article rebutting it was published in "Counterpunch" in Jan 2004. Among it's many other points is the fact that MLK was not at Harvard (or Columbia) when it is alleged to have happened.

We won't not even go into the zionist HOAX letter written in support of this quote. That would be piling on...

Desperation and Drastic Measures
The Use and Abuse of Martin Luther King Jr. by Israel’s Apologists

by FADI KIBLAWI And WILL YOUMANS

In formal logic, Argumentum Ad Verecundiam refers to arguing a point with an appeal to authority. This type is categorized as a logical fallacy. Citing one seemingly authoritative source is simply not conclusive evidence, even if the authority is seen as an expert on the given subject.

For the sake of clarity, there are three degradations of this maxim enumerated in this essay. First, it is especially fallacious as proof when the quoted authority demonstrates no special knowledge on the subject. Second, when the authority who is not an expert on the given subject is also quoted out of context, the argument is even weaker. Third, the lowest violation of this formal logic principle is when an advocate uses a false rendition, or a fabricated quote, by the same authority who can claim no expertise.

This is the best framework for understanding how various exponents of Israel have used Martin Luther King Jr. to promote their cause.

Dr. King’s expertise as a non-violent civil rights leader and visionary are unparalleled in U.S. history. However, that does not make him an informed commentator on Middle Eastern affairs or on the ideological facets of Zionism. As impressive as the references to his views on Israel may seem, this is a textbook example of Argumentum Ad Verecundiam.

Finding direct and published utterances by Dr. King about the modern Middle East and Zionism is extremely rare. A cursory review of dozens of books on and by the civil rights leader turned up nothing.

Nonetheless, defenders of Israel often refer to a letter by Dr. King. This letter is reprinted in full on many web pages and in print. One example of a quotation derived from this letter is:

"… You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist’ … And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."

Antiracism writer Tim Wise checked the citation, which claimed that it originated from a "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend" in an August, 1967 edition of Saturday Review. In an article on January, 2003, essay he declared that he found no letters from Dr. King in any of the four August, 1967 editions. The authors of this essay verified Wise’s discovery. The letter was commonly cited to also have been published in a book by Dr. King entitled, "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." No such book was listed in the bibliography provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.
Soon afterwards, CAMERA, a rabidly pro-Israeli organization, published a statement declaring that the letter was "apparently" a hoax. CAMERA explained how it gained so much currency. The "letter" came from a "reputable" book, Shared Dreams, by Rabbi Marc Shneier. Martin Luther King III authored the preface for the book, giving the impression of familial approval. Also, the Anti-Defamation League’s Michael Salberg used the same quotes in his July 31st, 2001 testimony before the U.S. House of Representative’s International Relations Committee’s Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights.

The bogus letter was further quoted by writers in prominent publications one would imagine armed with fact-checkers capable of spending the short amount of time needed to verify the primary source. Mort Zuckerman, the editor-in-chief of the U.S. News & World Report quoted the letter in a column (9/17/01). Warren Kinsella followed suit in an article for Maclean’s (1/20/03). Commentary, which is known more for its ideological zeal than any appreciation for factual scruples, ran a piece by Natan Sharansky. He quoted the false passage as a block–some ten months after CAMERA declared it a hoax.

More recently, the Scholars for Peace in the Middle East (SPME) featured excerpts from the letter prominently on its website. Despite its name, SPME is an advocacy group seeking to bolster Israel’s image on campus–a mission it claims promotes peace in the region. Ironically, right under the false Dr. King quotation is an announcement of the formation of a task force "dealing with academic integrity with respect to fabricating and falsifying data when discussing the Middle East."
After one of the authors of this article informed SPME’s director of the quotation’s discredited status, he replied with hostility despite the simple verifiability of the claim that the citation is incorrect. After several exchanges he replaced it with another seemingly far-fetched quote:

Martin Luther King addressed the issue in 1968, in a speech at Harvard when he said: ".. You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist.’ …When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe…When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–make no mistake about it."

When a citation for this new quote was requested, he refused to provide one, leaving visitors only with its claim that Dr. King delivered it in a 1968 Harvard "speech." However, the language of SMPE’s new posting strongly resembles their original one — on account of the fact that it too comes from the same discredited "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend."

The first time the fake letter was quoted, it could have been a mistake, but to draw on different lines from the same fictitious letter is strikingly unscholarly — as is the false citation of it to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard. Either this citation was invented or taken from another unspecified source–classic plagiarism, whether intentional or out of gross negligence.

SPME’s reference to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard mirrors the details from a published account that appeared in two sources: First, it was in right-wing and ardently pro-Israeli sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset’s 1969 article in Encounter. Second, it was in a January, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle op/ed by Congressman John Lewis, who knew Dr. King personally.

Lipset wrote in his essay "The Socialism of Fools: The Left, the Jews & Israel" about a "dinner" for Dr. King he attended. When one black student made "some remark against the Zionists," Dr. King "snapped" back, "’When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism’."
The piece by Congressman Lewis also quotes this same remark though it is not clear if it is gathered from Lipset’s essay.

Congressman Lewis claims Dr. King made this comment "shortly before his death" during "an appearance at Harvard." Lipset states it was "shortly before he was assassinated" at a "dinnergiven for him in Cambridge." This quotation seems on its face much more credible. Yet, SPME presents snippets from the fake letter while apparently citing this statement (a 1968 "speech" at Harvard).

There are still, however, a few reasons for casting doubt on the authenticity of this statement. According to the Harvard Crimson, "The Rev. Martin Luther King was last in Cambridge almost exactly a year ago–April 23, 1967" ("While You Were Away" 4/8/68). If this is true, Dr. King could not have been in Cambridge in 1968. Lipset stated he was in the area for a "fund-raising mission," which would seem to imply a high profile visit. Also, an intensive inventory of publications by Stanford University’s Martin Luther King Jr. Papers Project accounts for numerous speeches in 1968. None of them are for talks in Cambridge or Boston.

While these points raise some doubt, let us assume that the quote is accurate.

This is where context comes in. One of the principal arguments of Lipset’s 1969 article is that the split between blacks and Jews "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." He identifies Jews as a dominating force within the civil rights movement. Black nationalist leadership wanted to distance themselves from Whites in the movement, Lipset argues. In Lipset’s own words, he summarized what Black nationalists were saying: "We don’t want whites, but we particularly don’t want Jews, and we are expressing antagonism to Jews in the form of opposition to Israel."

Few of the articles that cite Lipset’s essay mention this crucial context. One individual who did explore this, albeit crudely, still managed to contrive another Dr. King quote unimaginatively. Dr. Andrew Bostom, a medical professor at Brown University, wrote an article for Front Page Magazine (1/20/03) that was reprinted on former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s website. In it, he claimed that Dr. King had the "moral courage" to confront the anti-Jewish rhetoric of black left-wing and Muslim organizations. This is not to say that Dr. Bostom is a reliable source. Central to his article is a 347 word passage which he attributes to Dr. King. He fails to cite a source for the outlandish tirade. A quick google search determined it was lifted entirely from original material on the homepage of Famous Jews: Home (which has a copyright date of 2002), plus healthy portions of the fake "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend." Dr. Bostom’s article featured the least creative and perhaps most fraudulent doctored script yet: a patchwork of plagiarism.

Taking the context described by Lipset and Dr. Bostom to be generally correct for the sake of argument would shed light on the credible Dr. King quotes. If the movement he figured so prominently in was facing such a rift, his response was only natural. To borrow Lipset’s analysis then, Dr. King’s statement also "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." Given his local political anxieties, Dr. King was hardly the kind of disinterested authority worth quoting on the subject.

As a note: the actual validity of Lipset and Dr. Bostom’s views of that context is beyond the scope of this essay. While it is true that black nationalists, such as SNCC’s leadership, became increasingly critical of Israel after 1967, it is not convincing that the motive was to alienate American Jews even if that was the foreseeable effect. An ardent internationalist for example would care more about linking oppressed people’s struggles across the globe than they would about the relatively mainstream political movement for equality in the American polity.

Back to the main point: if the forged quotes reflecting Dr. King’s views on Israel were accurate, citing him would still be classic Argumentum Ad Verecundiam. Where is the proof that Dr. King studied the region or its modern history? The dearth of then-publicized comments and writings on the region by Dr. King shows that it was probably not a subject he was well-versed on, nor did it appear to be a priority of his throughout his career.

Even the statements Congressman Lewis attributes to him are low in substance and high on flourishing rhetoric. For example, Dr. King stated that Israel is a "marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy." Referring to it as "marvelous" and an "oasis" sounds rather uninformed given the realities of military occupation and the forced exile the Palestinians have witnessed since Israel’s foundation. They surely do not sound like the words of someone familiar with both sides of the story.

More significantly, as Tim Wise pointed out, Dr. King’s supposed statements on Zionism came before the more than three decades of crippling Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and the 1987 intifada that grabbed the world’s attention. The Palestinian narrative was sparsely conveyed in the United States up to that point. There were few Arabs or Palestinians in the U.S. and fewer Arab academics, policymakers, and activists working with Dr. King. Wise also suggests that application of Dr. King’s principles logically give way to more sympathy to the Palestinian side given the systematic inequality it faces.

That advocates of Israel have relied on fabricated and out-of-context quotations from a leading moral figure of yesteryear only underscores the absurdity of the general point that all opposition to a Jewish state in a diverse land is anti-Semitic. There are obviously many legitimate ways to critique Zionism. One quite reasonable observation is that after more than a half-century of conflict, the Zionist project has failed to bring the Jews of Israel peace and security–its raison d’etre. One might counter that this is due to Arab intransigence; the Palestinians should accept their dispossession. However, Palestinian opposition to this fate is an indisputable fact, and security was and is Zionism’s key goal. This necessarily was an analytical failure on the part of the Zionists who assumed the Palestinians would blend in to other Arab countries while the later generations forget their past. To dismiss this argument–one that evaluates Zionism by its own goals–and every other critique of Zionism as anti-Semitism is not only dishonest but a cowardly evasion of meaningful debate.

This is not to say that all opponents of Israel are not anti-Semitic. Of course the Palestinian cause, like all movements, is exploited by those with other agendas, such as David Duke and Osama Bin Laden. Blanket statements in either direction are inaccurate.

The main reason why critique of Zionism persists is that whether Israeli officials like it or not, history as it is written and the actual land are still disputed by the millions of Palestinians who are refugees as a result of Israel’s birth, the 3.5 million Palestinians living under Israel’s direct military rule, and the Palestinians who compose 20% of Israel’s citizens in second class status. If Israel was founded and developed on uncontested terrain then arguments against its existence would more likely be out of hatred against the Jewish people. For supporters of Israel to wipe away all critics of the methods and outcomes of Israel’s foundation with the "anti-Semitic" label denies completely the legitimacy of the Palestinian narrative–the experiences and perspectives that never show up in Dr. King’s imagined "oasis."

Dr. King, though long-passed, is still monumental in the continuing movement for civil rights in the United States. His legacy should be celebrated, and also critiqued constructively; it should not be falsified or stretched to accommodate a different agenda today. The context behind Dr. King’s authentic statements on Zionism was unique to a particular domestic political moment in order to sustain a fragile political coalition. Beyond that, Dr. King never claimed any expertise on the subject, nor made it a frequent topic of his speeches or writings. Claiming that all critiques of Zionism are anti-Semitic based on the force Martin Luther King Jr.’s words on the matter fails as an argument on many different levels.

What does all this prove? Zionists will even flog the legacy of a prominent yet dead civil rights leader like MLK to advance it's agenda.

Like a rented, servant donkey...

As long as it advances zionism, no hasbara moment is too filthy or despicable.

From his own lips:cool:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]
 
Again, thanks for proving a shining example of the stench of Islamic / Neo Nazi mentality.

Dr Martin Luther King said it best "anti Zionism is just the modern anti Semetism" :clap:

More hasbara.

That quote was claimed to have been made by MLK by a zionist, made at the home of a zionist at Harvard, and it has never been authenticated and is not included in any works of MLK quotes. There were several people present when it was made but no one other then then the 2 zionists have ever come forward to corroborate it.

In Wiki it is listed as "disputed" and this article rebutting it was published in "Counterpunch" in Jan 2004. Among it's many other points is the fact that MLK was not at Harvard (or Columbia) when it is alleged to have happened.

We won't not even go into the zionist HOAX letter written in support of this quote. That would be piling on...

Desperation and Drastic Measures
The Use and Abuse of Martin Luther King Jr. by Israel’s Apologists

by FADI KIBLAWI And WILL YOUMANS

In formal logic, Argumentum Ad Verecundiam refers to arguing a point with an appeal to authority. This type is categorized as a logical fallacy. Citing one seemingly authoritative source is simply not conclusive evidence, even if the authority is seen as an expert on the given subject.

For the sake of clarity, there are three degradations of this maxim enumerated in this essay. First, it is especially fallacious as proof when the quoted authority demonstrates no special knowledge on the subject. Second, when the authority who is not an expert on the given subject is also quoted out of context, the argument is even weaker. Third, the lowest violation of this formal logic principle is when an advocate uses a false rendition, or a fabricated quote, by the same authority who can claim no expertise.

This is the best framework for understanding how various exponents of Israel have used Martin Luther King Jr. to promote their cause.

Dr. King’s expertise as a non-violent civil rights leader and visionary are unparalleled in U.S. history. However, that does not make him an informed commentator on Middle Eastern affairs or on the ideological facets of Zionism. As impressive as the references to his views on Israel may seem, this is a textbook example of Argumentum Ad Verecundiam.

Finding direct and published utterances by Dr. King about the modern Middle East and Zionism is extremely rare. A cursory review of dozens of books on and by the civil rights leader turned up nothing.

Nonetheless, defenders of Israel often refer to a letter by Dr. King. This letter is reprinted in full on many web pages and in print. One example of a quotation derived from this letter is:

"… You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist’ … And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."

Antiracism writer Tim Wise checked the citation, which claimed that it originated from a "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend" in an August, 1967 edition of Saturday Review. In an article on January, 2003, essay he declared that he found no letters from Dr. King in any of the four August, 1967 editions. The authors of this essay verified Wise’s discovery. The letter was commonly cited to also have been published in a book by Dr. King entitled, "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." No such book was listed in the bibliography provided by the King Center in Atlanta, nor in the catalogs of several large public and university libraries.
Soon afterwards, CAMERA, a rabidly pro-Israeli organization, published a statement declaring that the letter was "apparently" a hoax. CAMERA explained how it gained so much currency. The "letter" came from a "reputable" book, Shared Dreams, by Rabbi Marc Shneier. Martin Luther King III authored the preface for the book, giving the impression of familial approval. Also, the Anti-Defamation League’s Michael Salberg used the same quotes in his July 31st, 2001 testimony before the U.S. House of Representative’s International Relations Committee’s Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights.

The bogus letter was further quoted by writers in prominent publications one would imagine armed with fact-checkers capable of spending the short amount of time needed to verify the primary source. Mort Zuckerman, the editor-in-chief of the U.S. News & World Report quoted the letter in a column (9/17/01). Warren Kinsella followed suit in an article for Maclean’s (1/20/03). Commentary, which is known more for its ideological zeal than any appreciation for factual scruples, ran a piece by Natan Sharansky. He quoted the false passage as a block–some ten months after CAMERA declared it a hoax.

More recently, the Scholars for Peace in the Middle East (SPME) featured excerpts from the letter prominently on its website. Despite its name, SPME is an advocacy group seeking to bolster Israel’s image on campus–a mission it claims promotes peace in the region. Ironically, right under the false Dr. King quotation is an announcement of the formation of a task force "dealing with academic integrity with respect to fabricating and falsifying data when discussing the Middle East."
After one of the authors of this article informed SPME’s director of the quotation’s discredited status, he replied with hostility despite the simple verifiability of the claim that the citation is incorrect. After several exchanges he replaced it with another seemingly far-fetched quote:

Martin Luther King addressed the issue in 1968, in a speech at Harvard when he said: ".. You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist.’ …When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews… And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe…When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–make no mistake about it."

When a citation for this new quote was requested, he refused to provide one, leaving visitors only with its claim that Dr. King delivered it in a 1968 Harvard "speech." However, the language of SMPE’s new posting strongly resembles their original one — on account of the fact that it too comes from the same discredited "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend."

The first time the fake letter was quoted, it could have been a mistake, but to draw on different lines from the same fictitious letter is strikingly unscholarly — as is the false citation of it to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard. Either this citation was invented or taken from another unspecified source–classic plagiarism, whether intentional or out of gross negligence.

SPME’s reference to a 1968 "speech" at Harvard mirrors the details from a published account that appeared in two sources: First, it was in right-wing and ardently pro-Israeli sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset’s 1969 article in Encounter. Second, it was in a January, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle op/ed by Congressman John Lewis, who knew Dr. King personally.

Lipset wrote in his essay "The Socialism of Fools: The Left, the Jews & Israel" about a "dinner" for Dr. King he attended. When one black student made "some remark against the Zionists," Dr. King "snapped" back, "’When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism’."
The piece by Congressman Lewis also quotes this same remark though it is not clear if it is gathered from Lipset’s essay.

Congressman Lewis claims Dr. King made this comment "shortly before his death" during "an appearance at Harvard." Lipset states it was "shortly before he was assassinated" at a "dinnergiven for him in Cambridge." This quotation seems on its face much more credible. Yet, SPME presents snippets from the fake letter while apparently citing this statement (a 1968 "speech" at Harvard).

There are still, however, a few reasons for casting doubt on the authenticity of this statement. According to the Harvard Crimson, "The Rev. Martin Luther King was last in Cambridge almost exactly a year ago–April 23, 1967" ("While You Were Away" 4/8/68). If this is true, Dr. King could not have been in Cambridge in 1968. Lipset stated he was in the area for a "fund-raising mission," which would seem to imply a high profile visit. Also, an intensive inventory of publications by Stanford University’s Martin Luther King Jr. Papers Project accounts for numerous speeches in 1968. None of them are for talks in Cambridge or Boston.

While these points raise some doubt, let us assume that the quote is accurate.

This is where context comes in. One of the principal arguments of Lipset’s 1969 article is that the split between blacks and Jews "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." He identifies Jews as a dominating force within the civil rights movement. Black nationalist leadership wanted to distance themselves from Whites in the movement, Lipset argues. In Lipset’s own words, he summarized what Black nationalists were saying: "We don’t want whites, but we particularly don’t want Jews, and we are expressing antagonism to Jews in the form of opposition to Israel."

Few of the articles that cite Lipset’s essay mention this crucial context. One individual who did explore this, albeit crudely, still managed to contrive another Dr. King quote unimaginatively. Dr. Andrew Bostom, a medical professor at Brown University, wrote an article for Front Page Magazine (1/20/03) that was reprinted on former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s website. In it, he claimed that Dr. King had the "moral courage" to confront the anti-Jewish rhetoric of black left-wing and Muslim organizations. This is not to say that Dr. Bostom is a reliable source. Central to his article is a 347 word passage which he attributes to Dr. King. He fails to cite a source for the outlandish tirade. A quick google search determined it was lifted entirely from original material on the homepage of Famous Jews: Home (which has a copyright date of 2002), plus healthy portions of the fake "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend." Dr. Bostom’s article featured the least creative and perhaps most fraudulent doctored script yet: a patchwork of plagiarism.

Taking the context described by Lipset and Dr. Bostom to be generally correct for the sake of argument would shed light on the credible Dr. King quotes. If the movement he figured so prominently in was facing such a rift, his response was only natural. To borrow Lipset’s analysis then, Dr. King’s statement also "stems much more from the American situation than from the Middle East Conflict." Given his local political anxieties, Dr. King was hardly the kind of disinterested authority worth quoting on the subject.

As a note: the actual validity of Lipset and Dr. Bostom’s views of that context is beyond the scope of this essay. While it is true that black nationalists, such as SNCC’s leadership, became increasingly critical of Israel after 1967, it is not convincing that the motive was to alienate American Jews even if that was the foreseeable effect. An ardent internationalist for example would care more about linking oppressed people’s struggles across the globe than they would about the relatively mainstream political movement for equality in the American polity.

Back to the main point: if the forged quotes reflecting Dr. King’s views on Israel were accurate, citing him would still be classic Argumentum Ad Verecundiam. Where is the proof that Dr. King studied the region or its modern history? The dearth of then-publicized comments and writings on the region by Dr. King shows that it was probably not a subject he was well-versed on, nor did it appear to be a priority of his throughout his career.

Even the statements Congressman Lewis attributes to him are low in substance and high on flourishing rhetoric. For example, Dr. King stated that Israel is a "marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy." Referring to it as "marvelous" and an "oasis" sounds rather uninformed given the realities of military occupation and the forced exile the Palestinians have witnessed since Israel’s foundation. They surely do not sound like the words of someone familiar with both sides of the story.

More significantly, as Tim Wise pointed out, Dr. King’s supposed statements on Zionism came before the more than three decades of crippling Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and the 1987 intifada that grabbed the world’s attention. The Palestinian narrative was sparsely conveyed in the United States up to that point. There were few Arabs or Palestinians in the U.S. and fewer Arab academics, policymakers, and activists working with Dr. King. Wise also suggests that application of Dr. King’s principles logically give way to more sympathy to the Palestinian side given the systematic inequality it faces.

That advocates of Israel have relied on fabricated and out-of-context quotations from a leading moral figure of yesteryear only underscores the absurdity of the general point that all opposition to a Jewish state in a diverse land is anti-Semitic. There are obviously many legitimate ways to critique Zionism. One quite reasonable observation is that after more than a half-century of conflict, the Zionist project has failed to bring the Jews of Israel peace and security–its raison d’etre. One might counter that this is due to Arab intransigence; the Palestinians should accept their dispossession. However, Palestinian opposition to this fate is an indisputable fact, and security was and is Zionism’s key goal. This necessarily was an analytical failure on the part of the Zionists who assumed the Palestinians would blend in to other Arab countries while the later generations forget their past. To dismiss this argument–one that evaluates Zionism by its own goals–and every other critique of Zionism as anti-Semitism is not only dishonest but a cowardly evasion of meaningful debate.

This is not to say that all opponents of Israel are not anti-Semitic. Of course the Palestinian cause, like all movements, is exploited by those with other agendas, such as David Duke and Osama Bin Laden. Blanket statements in either direction are inaccurate.

The main reason why critique of Zionism persists is that whether Israeli officials like it or not, history as it is written and the actual land are still disputed by the millions of Palestinians who are refugees as a result of Israel’s birth, the 3.5 million Palestinians living under Israel’s direct military rule, and the Palestinians who compose 20% of Israel’s citizens in second class status. If Israel was founded and developed on uncontested terrain then arguments against its existence would more likely be out of hatred against the Jewish people. For supporters of Israel to wipe away all critics of the methods and outcomes of Israel’s foundation with the "anti-Semitic" label denies completely the legitimacy of the Palestinian narrative–the experiences and perspectives that never show up in Dr. King’s imagined "oasis."

Dr. King, though long-passed, is still monumental in the continuing movement for civil rights in the United States. His legacy should be celebrated, and also critiqued constructively; it should not be falsified or stretched to accommodate a different agenda today. The context behind Dr. King’s authentic statements on Zionism was unique to a particular domestic political moment in order to sustain a fragile political coalition. Beyond that, Dr. King never claimed any expertise on the subject, nor made it a frequent topic of his speeches or writings. Claiming that all critiques of Zionism are anti-Semitic based on the force Martin Luther King Jr.’s words on the matter fails as an argument on many different levels.

What does all this prove? Zionists will even flog the legacy of a prominent yet dead civil rights leader like MLK to advance it's agenda.

Like a rented, servant donkey...

As long as it advances zionism, no hasbara moment is too filthy or despicable.

From his own lips:cool:



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

So? Where in that speech does he say criticism of zionism makes one a jew hating anti semitic donkey?

Because that's what the zionists claim he said.

And it was a hasbara lie...
 
Oh what the hell, let's go with the hoax "Letter to a Zionist Friend" written by a zionist and attributable to MLK. We'll call it...

HASBARA 2

Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend" is an open letter attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr. that expressed support for Zionism and declared that "anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so."[1]
History

The letter may have been based on a statement attributed to King at a dinner event in Cambridge, Massachusetts.[2] According to Seymour Martin Lipset, an African American student made a statement sharply critical of Zionists at a dinner that Lipset recalled as having taken place in 1968, and King replied: "Don't talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."[3]

According to Eric Sundquist, a professor at UCLA, "eventually, through channels that are difficult to pin down, this quotation was transformed into a text purportedly by King titled 'Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend,' which was said to have appeared in an August 1967 issue of Saturday Review and later reprinted in a book This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.[2] However, no such letter was published in any of the four Saturday Review issues released that month.[2][4][5] The letter was allegedly re-published in This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., but no book by that name has been located.[2][4][6] The letter was not found in the King archives at Boston University.[5]

There appear to be no references to the letter before 1999.[5][7] Tim Wise suggests that it originated with Marc Schneier, who published portions of it in Shared Dreams: Martin Luther King Jr. and the Jewish Community that year.[4]

Fadi Kiblawi and Will Youmans have questioned the authenticity of Lipset's account.[6] According to a Harvard Crimson article published days after King's death, King had not been to Cambridge since April 23, 1967.[8] Kiblawi and Youmans did not find any 1968 speeches by King in the Stanford University archives.[6]

The letter was quoted by Ariel Sharon before the Knesset on January 26, 2005.[9][10] It was also cited by the Anti-Defamation League in testimony before the United States House of Representatives.[6][5][11] Other prominent individuals quoting the letter include Natan Sharansky (in the November 2003 issue of Commentary) and Mortimer Zuckerman (in the September 17, 2001, issue of U.S. News & World Report).[6][9]
 
What's also hilarious is the gymnastics other zionists went through to try to substantiate the sentiment of the contents while at the same time admitting it was a hoax....
According to Sundquist, King "paid frequent tribute to Jewish support for black rights, defended Israel's right to exist, supported the Jewish state during the Six Day War (while calling for a negotiated settlement in keeping with his advocacy of nonviolence), and on more than one occasion opposed the anti-Zionism then taking increasing hold in the Black Power movement." According to Sundquist, while the letter is a hoax, the sentiments it expresses are those of Dr. King.[12] Sundquist states that the positions expressed in the forged letter "are in no way at odds with King's views."[2]

Wise asserts that King "appears never to have made any public comment about Zionism per se." According to Wise, the Lipset quote does not support the claim that opposition to Zionism was inherently anti-Semitic, and the comment in question may have been limited to the specific circumstances: "As for what King would say today about Israel, Zionism, and the Palestinian struggle, one can only speculate."[4] Kiblawi and Youmans suggest that a reliance on King's views in this matter constitutes a fallacious argument from authority, since Middle East issues were not among King's areas of expertise. They also assert that the Lipset quote was a reply to explicitly anti-white and anti-Semitic militancy of the time, and that most modern-day renditions omit this "crucial context".[6]

In other words, fake but real.

Does that remind anyone of Dan Rathers fall from grace during the Bush "letter" hoax?

You can't make this stuff up. Dan rather probably wishes he was a zionist jew...he mightr have been able to save his career if the full weight of AIPAC, American jews and the State of israel were behind him...heheh.

Poor donkey, his usefulness ended.
 
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More hasbara.

That quote was claimed to have been made by MLK by a zionist, made at the home of a zionist at Harvard, and it has never been authenticated and is not included in any works of MLK quotes. There were several people present when it was made but no one other then then the 2 zionists have ever come forward to corroborate it.

In Wiki it is listed as "disputed" and this article rebutting it was published in "Counterpunch" in Jan 2004. Among it's many other points is the fact that MLK was not at Harvard (or Columbia) when it is alleged to have happened.

We won't not even go into the zionist HOAX letter written in support of this quote. That would be piling on...



What does all this prove? Zionists will even flog the legacy of a prominent yet dead civil rights leader like MLK to advance it's agenda.

Like a rented, servant donkey...

As long as it advances zionism, no hasbara moment is too filthy or despicable.

From his own lips:cool:



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

So? Where in that speech does he say criticism of zionism makes one a jew hating anti semitic donkey?

Because that's what the zionists claim he said.

And it was a hasbara lie...

MLK supported Israel, you heard what he said :cool:
 
"Gaza fell first, and the attack continued northward until, after the Battle of the Yarmuk southeast of the Sea of Galilee (August 636), the Roman army withdrew from Palestine and Syria.* Jerusalem held out until the spring of 638.* Caesarea fell last, in 641 or 642, and with its conquest the Muslims ended seven centuries of Roman control in Palestine."

Palestine: History

Empires rise and fall, occupations always have their end.

And Palestinians remain in their homeland of Palestine throughout it all.



arabic and islam were introduced to the area called "palestine" and to syria and Egypt
during the seventh century by invaders from arabia Islam is a foreign religion and arabic is a foreign language in the erstwhile palestine. The persons in the area most long who were part of the barbaric invasion are the bedouin of the negev who continue to
carry their original culture from ARABIA -----there is no evidence of anything indigenous to
the land that had been called palestine for about 2000 years in their customs, or beliefs
or behaviors--------they are actually ARABS There are other people today called
"palestinians" who are not arabs------generally they are syrians and egytpians. The
land that had been called palestine for 2000 years NEVER had a stable population-----being
constantly both war torn and subject to changes in climate that led to famines. The ONLY
people extant who have a lengthy history in that land and maintain language and
customs and culture from that land are JEWS

anyone who claims that ANY group of people---culture, ethnic group, etc that lives there
today -----had maintained a signficant presence there for THOUSANDS OF YEARS----is
an idiot -----all of the nations that lived there in ANTIQUITY-----are now extinct---except
the jews and the jews maintained themselves OFTEN outside of that land-------thus empires do rise and fall No question. The great egyptian empire
fell ------no one speaks the language of that culture or practices its religion. The great
ASSYRIAN culture----rose and fell-----its tiny remnant ---the chaldeans are being wiped out
by muslim arab invaders The great Iranian empire fell-----its tiny remnant ---the zoroastrians---surviving some in Mumbai and some in Israel and also being wiped out in
Iran.

Of the Egyptian past empire----those who maintained themselves the longest
still there are the COPTS ----they are also being wiped out. Before the Copts
the oldest extant community in Egypt were the JEWS OF ALEXANDRIA ---who had been
there for more than 2500 years------now wiped out. Of the Babylonian empire----
besides the Chaldeans ----the longest survivors were the jews of Baghdad-----now wiped
out. Interestingly----just about the only people who still know and use the language of
the great babylonian empire------are the jews and chaldeans

Language is a key to understanding the migrations of people. In some aspects
it is more accurate than DNA studies. The arabic of the Bedouins of the negev ---
is DIRECTLY FROM ARABIA------the language of an illiterate people is a firm
indicator of their origins. Suggesting that they were originally from "palestine" ---
takes a really stupid person. Their arabic is not even close to the arabic of egyptians--
or syrians ------who speak the language of the INVADERS------their arabic is of their
FOREFATHERS in arabia

for those who do not know-----arabic comes in so many DIFFERENT dialects----that
the arabic speaking people of different countries cannot even talk to each other easily.
Interestinly enough------the hebrew of jews separated by thousands of miles and
centuries of time------remained stable with only very very minor alterations in
pronunciation and usages The huge differences in the various forms of arabic speak
to the fact that highly diverse peoples were victims of its imposition. Of all the diversified
orgins of the arabic speaking people of the middle east------ONE OF THE MOST
diversified are the people who today call themselvs "palestinians". They are recent
remnants of many people who invaded that land-----from Egyptians--to Assyrians, to
Babylonians, to Romans, to Greeks, to Persians etc etc etc and recent speakers of
an IMPOSED LANGUAGE-----to wit-----arabic and an iimposed religion---to wit ---
islam and an imposed ideology to wit KILL THE JEWS
 
The title of this thread is an illustration of Hate, a statement made that robs others of human dignity and their very identity.

I would hope the poster who started this thread will one day turn from hate and turn to God.
 

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