Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[Care4all]

This you?

This is what you all have reduced yourselves to?

Making up shit, lies, and instigating trouble and argument out of thin air, so you can fight with who you have deep seeded ungodly hatred for....?

Or to try to compare a woman who simply suggested that people can help (civil disobedience) protesters by donating to a charity that makes bail funds available, to anyone qualifying for a bail release, if they don't have the ability to raise their bail money....Comparing that comment with Donald Trumps rebel rousing speech at the ellipse???? Sheesh!

You all are being VERY DISHONEST, and lack moral compass,
shame on you!

This is all that Kamala tweeted,

Kamala Harris
@KamalaHarris
If you’re able to, chip in now to the
@MNFreedomFund
to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota.

secure.actblue.com
Donate to the Minnesota Freedom Fund
Your support will help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota.

4:34 PM · Jun 1, 2020

--------------------
And it became a firestorm in dishonest right wing circles of propaganda and hatred, and your rightwing fake news.

How did this even become something to even debate and discuss....and start silly threads on?

You call her a liar, as you all make claims about her wanting violent rioters to continue their violence, that she never once mentioned or hinted or said?


And for what reason is this being brought up and made up?

Your souls have rotted......

Shouldn’t Kamala Harris be Indicted for Encouraging BLM riots?

Yeah, I don't know if you noticed but no one gives a fuck what you say either. All you do is talk. 😄 Millions of Americans are coming, boy. I will say I told you so.

www.usmessageboard.com

Yep, That's me..... Unbelievers in the church, shun those telling them the truth....

 

[SweetSue92]

Once more I ask you to quote the verse where Jesus himself says, "God sent me so that he could punish me terribly so that he could forgive the sins of the world." This is not the "heart" of the Gospel and never was. If it were, Jesus would have spoke of this. Since he never did, perhaps you can at least point me to the verse(s) where you think he did?

The heart of the Gospel is repentance (turning away) for the forgiveness of sins, and to discern the will of God and follow it on earth as it is in heaven. And of course, love of God and love of one's fellowman.

YOU cannot understand the great grace and mercy of God, so you mocked and disparaged that He would even do such a thing--send His Son to die for sins. Not to show HOW to be forgiven, but as a sacrifice.

What you believe is nice, but it's not Christianity. I have already provided verses.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yep, That's me..... Unbelievers in the church, shun those telling them the truth....

So, if I reject what you say about Donald Trump, I'm not a Christian?

ummm...who has made Trump a lynchpin of their faith again?

 

[Care4all]

Revelation 21:8 (KJV);

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


The group which will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone are people who profess to know God but yet will not do His commandments. They profess to know God but deny Him with their works.

Titus 1: (16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


All “liars” would indeed cover the other 7 categories of people written in Revelation 21.

The liars who profess to know God will not overcome and do His commandments so as to be found His sons and daughters .

Instead, they show that they do not know the Father nor the Son by the works that they will do.

Revelation 21:7-8 KJV (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.




A “liar” is defined as those who say they know God but yet will not keep His commandments. When they say they “know God” and yet do not do His commandments, they show they really don’t know Him.


1 John 2:3-4 KJV (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



If a man says “I love God” and yet hates his brother, then he is a liar as he does not do the commandment of God: he that loves God is to love his brother also.

1 John 4:20-21 KJV (20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? (21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


Again, the “liar” is saying that “I know God” but will not keep His commandments.


A “murderer” is defined as those that hate their brothers. Just by hating a brother is being a “murderer” and is a “liar” for such people say they know God whom they have not seen but hate their brothers whom they have seen.



1 John 3:14-15 KJV (14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (15) Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


The liars all will say that they know Him: “Lord, Lord” but will not do the will of the Father which is in Heaven...thereby demonstrating that they do not know the Father nor the Son.

Matthew 7:19-23 KJV (19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The Lord comes to give us an understanding. He sends out His servants as messengers of His words of life and spirit to the churches. Those who have an ear are to hear what the Spirit is saying to them.

Yet, MANY who profess to know God will reject what is being said through the Spirit of Truth and will be found working evil (like Diotrephes) as they will cast out the “devils”…their brothers that they label as such… who will tell them the Truth and will do those things (their supposed "wonderful works") that do not please God.

And while they will do these things, they will believe that they are doing God “service” in His name….doing evil works supposedly in God’s authority. This is loving and practicing of the Lie of the serpent.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

They profess they know God and yet will not do what He says. Jesus professes unto those who will persist to work iniquity when someone will tell them the Truth: “I never knew you”.

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They….the group that will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone…will cast out their brothers (whom they will hate) out of their church gatherings (synagogues = gatherings) and will “kill” as they will label those who will tell them the Truth as “devils” and all the while thinking that they are doing God “service” (supposedly in His name/authority) for their “wonderful works” that are really evil works motivated by their hatred of their brothers.

John 16:1-3 KJV (1) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. (2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.


READ THE REST HERE

In Revelation 21:8 Did John mean by "all liars" the previously mentioned in the same verse?

Revelation 21:8 (KJV); But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake wh...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

 

[SweetSue92]

Revelation 21:8 (KJV);

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


The group which will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone are people who profess to know God but yet will not do His commandments. They profess to know God but deny Him with their works.

Titus 1: (16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


All “liars” would indeed cover the other 7 categories of people written in Revelation 21.

The liars who profess to know God will not overcome and do His commandments so as to be found His sons and daughters .

Instead, they show that they do not know the Father nor the Son by the works that they will do.

Revelation 21:7-8 KJV (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.




A “liar” is defined as those who say they know God but yet will not keep His commandments. When they say they “know God” and yet do not do His commandments, they show they really don’t know Him.


1 John 2:3-4 KJV (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



If a man says “I love God” and yet hates his brother, then he is a liar as he does not do the commandment of God: he that loves God is to love his brother also.

1 John 4:20-21 KJV (20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? (21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


Again, the “liar” is saying that “I know God” but will not keep His commandments.


A “murderer” is defined as those that hate their brothers. Just by hating a brother is being a “murderer” and is a “liar” for such people say they know God whom they have not seen but hate their brothers whom they have seen.



1 John 3:14-15 KJV (14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (15) Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


The liars all will say that they know Him: “Lord, Lord” but will not do the will of the Father which is in Heaven...thereby demonstrating that they do not know the Father nor the Son.

Matthew 7:19-23 KJV (19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The Lord comes to give us an understanding. He sends out His servants as messengers of His words of life and spirit to the churches. Those who have an ear are to hear what the Spirit is saying to them.

Yet, MANY who profess to know God will reject what is being said through the Spirit of Truth and will be found working evil (like Diotrephes) as they will cast out the “devils”…their brothers that they label as such… who will tell them the Truth and will do those things (their supposed "wonderful works") that do not please God.

And while they will do these things, they will believe that they are doing God “service” in His name….doing evil works supposedly in God’s authority. This is loving and practicing of the Lie of the serpent.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

They profess they know God and yet will not do what He says. Jesus professes unto those who will persist to work iniquity when someone will tell them the Truth: “I never knew you”.

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They….the group that will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone…will cast out their brothers (whom they will hate) out of their church gatherings (synagogues = gatherings) and will “kill” as they will label those who will tell them the Truth as “devils” and all the while thinking that they are doing God “service” (supposedly in His name/authority) for their “wonderful works” that are really evil works motivated by their hatred of their brothers.

John 16:1-3 KJV (1) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. (2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.


READ THE REST HERE

In Revelation 21:8 Did John mean by "all liars" the previously mentioned in the same verse?

Revelation 21:8 (KJV); But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake wh...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

I wonder if you realize that here, you are being the very kind of judgmental that people really loathe in Christians. Do you?

Put another way: I know you have professed Christianity before and I don't doubt it, even though you sometimes say the most offensive things about my fellow conservatives. I don't doubt it because I am also imperfect, because "hate" can be interpreted differently, and because sanctification is a life-long process with a long and winding road.

But here you are dead sure that, even AFTER salvation, some people who are apparently hateful just won't make the cut. Right? Even though with one profession of faith the thief on the cross would see Paradise, according to Jesus Christ Himself?

I would never assume to judge fellow believers in that way unless it is patently OBVIOUS they are LYING about being believers. But to borrow a phrase, you stomp in where angels fear to tread.

Okay.

 

[Meriweather]

YOU cannot understand the great grace and mercy of God, so you mocked and disparaged that He would even do such a thing--send His Son to die for sins. Not to show HOW to be forgiven, but as a sacrifice.

What you believe is nice, but it's not Christianity. I have already provided verses.

You did not (because you cannot) provide a verse where Jesus says any such thing.

I believe I understand the awesomeness of God's grace and mercy more than you can ever imagine or understand. You haven't a clue of what I have experienced. Truly experience God's grace and mercy, and you will blush to think He demanded his son Jesus be brutally punished so that sins can be forgiven.

Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice of his life to drive home for all of us the truth that obedience to God--no matter what the price--results in life. Jesus said his authority to proclaim repentance for the forgiveness of sins, that sins are forgiven, was given to him by the Father. Jesus saw his very life was in danger if he continued this mission--but he plowed on. No one has greater love than those who lays down his life. Jesus laid down his life for the entire world so that the Word of God (in both senses) might be known.

 

[Meriweather]

I wonder if you realize that here, you are being the very kind of judgmental that people really loathe in Christians.

She is not being judgmental at all. Revelation was written by John, in apocalyptic literary style, to encourage first century Christians being persecuted to be true to themselves and to their faith. In fact, John was not addressing people who were not Christian, because non-Christians hadn't taken on a thing they needed to give up. On the other hand, some Christians were abandoning something they believed in for their personal safety or for their family's safety and daily provisions. If they were killed or imprisoned, who would take care of their little children. If they lost their employment who would feed their family?

John, who had watched Jesus die on the cross because Jesus would not abandon proclaiming God's message, had to have had this starkly in mind when he wrote Revelation his for fellow Christians. If one truly embraces the way of Christ, one cannot simply shed it at the first sign of adversity. Jesus certainly had not turned back when he had come face-to face-to-face with adversity.

 

[Crepitus]

This is why our nation is in the shape it's in, actually.

It certainly explains the MAGA republicans,

 

[Unkotare]

I'm 50 years old. ....

Way too old to be as stupid as you seem.

 

[Red Front]

Way too old to be as stupid as you seem.

Why would you say that? Let's see if you're smart enough to provide a rational argument as to why I "seem" stupid. Go ahead.

 

[ChemEngineer]

You can't blame unbelievers for things they don't know. I disagree.

The Bible verse is fantastic. What that man said, notsomuch.

It's not that they "don't know," but that they refute science and facts and profound evidence, everywhere.
They don't WANT to know. They will pay dearly for their sinfulness and rejection of Nature's God.
His primary commandment was to love Him. Unbelievers reject that by definition, by attitude, by foolishness.

 

[The Duke]

It's not that they "don't know," but that they refute science and facts and profound evidence, everywhere.
They don't WANT to know. They will pay dearly for their sinfulness and rejection of Nature's God.
His primary commandment was to love Him. Unbelievers reject that by definition, by attitude, by foolishness.

You're describing people that know and reject, I'm describing people that never heard.

There's a difference there.

 

[Red Front]

Matthew: Jesus said for them to teach all he commanded them to teach. Nothing about the Torah is mentioned. Nothing about "everything." Does Matthew's Gospel teach the Torah? (It does teach repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)

Mark: Preach the Gospel (Good News) The good news was repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke: "This is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead...and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations beginning in Jerusalem."

Matthew: Jesus said for them to teach all he commanded them to teach.

Yes, including the Torah. That's what he taught his disciples as a Jewish prophet and teacher. The apostles were zealous for the Torah, according to Acts 21:20....

Act_21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

The genuine apostles of Jesus were keeping Torah and teaching it. Paul created a completely different religion, based on his mystical visions and understanding.

Nothing about the Torah is mentioned. Nothing about "everything." Does Matthew's Gospel teach the Torah? (It does teach repentance for the forgiveness of sins.)

The disciples of Jesus had the Tenach or Hebrew Bible and other writings as well. Your point is moot. The first believers were Jews and Jesus identified his mission as being directed towards Israel, including the lost sheep, which are drawn to His message of the gospel of the Kingdom. Carrying your cross, following him, and keeping His commandments. If one believes in Christ's pre-incarnate existence, it's not unreasonable to likewise believe that He was the one who delivered the Torah to Moses on Mount Sinai. The law was delivered through angels, with Jesus being the highest-ranking angel of YHWH's heavenly hosts.

Mark: Preach the Gospel (Good News) The good news was repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke: "This is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead...and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations beginning in Jerusalem."

Different gospels have varied Chrstologies and view on salvation, the gospel, the law, the resurrection accounts...etc. They were written for different reasons and for different people.

 

[Red Front]

I hate communism? Tell me more about myself. I missed that part.

You don't hate communism?

 

[ChemEngineer]

You're describing people that know and reject, I'm describing people that never heard.

There's a difference there.

Oh, please. You're not describing anybody in America or Europe or most of the world.
As to primitive tribes, they can see beauty and elegance surrounding them and will not a gracious and forgiving God
consider extreme circumstances, such as in the countless cases of people unable to understand, or hear or speak?
Yes, yes, He will. You cannot possibly consider yourself more gracious and forgiving than Nature's God.

 

[Red Front]

Really? Tell me more I don't know about myself. Or--better yet--stop creating a Meriweather that lives only in your own mind.

Many people are religious out of fear of being tortured in hell for all eternity or not existing after death. Add also how difficult it is to live as a mortal being in a universe that is constantly trying to kill you. Not easy.

 

[Red Front]

Then someone has no--or very little understanding--of religion. And most likely never developed any kind of relationship with God. Religion is the antithesis of "the opium".

 

[Red Front]

Jesus came to teach a new way of life. He even noted this would cause division. Anything that divides from something else is usually given a new name to distinguish it from the old. Paul became a disciple. And as was already mentioned by us both, disciples were to preach all Christ commanded. Specifically, what do you believe Paul taught that the other disciples were not teaching? Paul himself said he preached Christ--and Christ crucified at that. He doesn't appear to be preaching about himself.

Jesus came to teach a new way of life. He even noted this would cause division. Anything that divides from something else is usually given a new name to distinguish it from the old.

Yes, radical love and oneness, with God and your fellow human beings. But that was all within the orb of the faith of Israel. He taught Torah as a chasid, a Jewish ascetic and prophet, similar to Elijah. John who came in the spirit and power of Elijah according to Luke, was the one who baptized Jesus. Jesus was indeed a unique teacher and prophet, but Paul and his Gentile followers created a whole new religion, especially after the fall of Jerusalem in 70ad. With the death of James the brother of Jesus, and the dissolution of the Jerusalem Jewish/communist church, Paulianity replaced Christianity.

You follow the religion of Saul, the enemy of David. There are a few Jonathans among the Christians, who David/Jesus loves, but most of the children of Saul are mortal enemies of David/Jesus. Be careful, because the Hebrew Bible uses the name of David as a symbolic moniker for the messiah. So don't go there, spare you're self a good beating.

Paul became a disciple. And as was already mentioned by us both, disciples were to preach all Christ commanded. Specifically, what do you believe Paul taught that the other disciples were not teaching? Paul himself said he preached Christ--and Christ crucified at that. He doesn't appear to be preaching about himself.

Paul (the least) or Saul, is a test for the true disciples of Jesus. You're failing the test. You need to follow Jesus and His 12 apostles. That entails you becoming a theistic communist. The earthly body of Christ's disciples (the future governors of YHWH's creation), have to lay it all down at the foot of the cross. You must climb on the cross with Jesus and die with him. Carry your cross and DIE, before you rise from the dead a new creation. You will never embody the presence of Jesus Christ, on this planet, until you die with him. Lay your life down, before the body of Jesus Christ. His body is the assembly of disciples. What you call "The Church".

The Church isn't a building, it's a people, who embody and manifest the presence and power of Jesus Christ and His Heavenly Father, YHWH. That's the gospel of Jesus Christ. He says "COME DIE WITH ME, THAT YOU MAY LIVE FOREVER". Carry your cross and follow me, to Golgotha, the place of the skull. Jesus says "I will transform your mind and make you a new creation". That is the true gospel of Jesus, not your Roman Catholic idolatry or American mammon worshiping Evangelicalism. Paulianity is what you follow, not the Gospel Of The Kingdom.

 

[Red Front]

Fake News (1)​

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     7 minutes ago
     

     Unkotare​

     Diamond Member
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[Care4all]

I wonder if you realize that here, you are being the very kind of judgmental that people really loathe in Christians. Do you?

Put another way: I know you have professed Christianity before and I don't doubt it, even though you sometimes say the most offensive things about my fellow conservatives. I don't doubt it because I am also imperfect, because "hate" can be interpreted differently, and because sanctification is a life-long process with a long and winding road.

But here you are dead sure that, even AFTER salvation, some people who are apparently hateful just won't make the cut. Right? Even though with one profession of faith the thief on the cross would see Paradise, according to Jesus Christ Himself?

I would never assume to judge fellow believers in that way unless it is patently OBVIOUS they are LYING about being believers. But to borrow a phrase, you stomp in where angels fear to tread.

Okay.

I did not judge them...Christ did and will.

he told you in scripture exactly who the unbelievers are.... And with other scripture to back it up, it appears to be those who pretend to be Christ followers in the church, who do NOT follow Christ's teachings....