We are living through the latest example of democracy eventually failing.

[Curried Goats]

It means if yoj try to kill me I have a right to defend myself l.

I still don't know what that means. The ability to defend yourself has some utility. The legal right to defend yourself offers you the utility of legal protection in a lawful society when you do. What utility does the right to defend yourself in nature provide you? I'm still not seeing you describe it. What if I don't give a shit about your natural right? In that case you better have the ability to defend yourself.

That’s not name calling that’s stating the obvious

It's name calling and this is pretend and make believe. I understand why you reach for it, the above is a difficult question for you believers in natural rights.

You don’t even know what it mean to have a right to life

It's not my belief, it's yours, you're supposed to be able to articulate it.

 

[progressive hunter]

Abortion shouldn't be a political issue.

because people want to kill children in the womb its become political,,

 

[Curried Goats]

That morality and virtue are required for us to remain a free society.

This is just more propaganda and hopeful metaphor. They didn't create a free society, they created a slave state. Freedom is what you have when there is no government. That's absolute freedom. With government you exchange freedom for the security of society.

I let my actions speak for my morality (of course you have to see me in action).

Ok.....

Abortion shouldn't be a political issue.

I don't do shoulda woulda coulda's. The fantasy and make believe and imaginative stuff I leave to people like struth. I stick to arguing reality.

 

[Woodznutz]

because people want to kill children in the womb its become political,,

Based on that lots of other issues should be politicized.

 

[progressive hunter]

Based on that lots of other issues should be politicized.

examples please??

 

[Woodznutz]

This is just more propaganda and hopeful metaphor. They didn't create a free society, they created a slave state. Freedom is what you have when there is no government. That's absolute freedom. With government you exchange freedom for the security of society.

You have a problem with security?

Ok.....

Thanks.

I don't do shoulda woulda coulda's. The fantasy and make believe and imaginative stuff I live to people like @struth. I stick to arguing reality.

I live reality, but I'll argue fantasy.

 

[Curried Goats]

You have a problem with security?

Thanks.

I live reality, but I'll argue fantasy.

No I just find it amusing when people argue in metaphors and falsehoods or propaganda. I don't fall for colonizer propaganda anymore than I do anyone else's.

 

[Woodznutz]

examples please??

Riots on state funded college campuses.

 

[Woodznutz]

No I just find it amusing when people argue in metaphors and falsehoods or propaganda. I don't fall for colonizer propaganda anymore than I do anyone else's.

Most arguments here aren't done in metaphors.

 

[BackAgain]

The guardrails the Founders put in the Constitution to protect America from the well-known and inevitable decline of a democracy still require a moral and thoughtful citizenry. We have neither. Look at this list of reasons given for the decline of the Roman republic:

There Was An Imbalance Of Power Between The Aristocracy And The Rest Of Society
They Broke Into Factions Who Prioritized Their Own Aims Over Their Republic
Ancient Democracies Limited Voting To Select Citizens
Demagogues Were Able To Easily Persuade A Misled Populace
Political Campaigns Were Expensive And Mired In Controversy
Certain Individuals Had Their Own Personal Military
Senators Stalled Vital Legislation With Filibusters
Senators Began Using Violence To Get Rid Of Political Adversaries
Participation In Long-Running Wars Caused Regional Instability
Autocratic Powers Rigged Democratic Systems To Put Themselves In Power
All People Were Free To Live As They Pleased

As the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun. The Founders tried to protect against the inevitable. They understood how fragile a democracy is and how dependent it is on the character of the citizens.

John Adams stated it this way, “Public virtue cannot exist in a Nation without private Virtue, and public Virtue is the only Foundation of Republics.

George Washington said: “Virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government,”[6] and “Human rights can only be assured among a virtuous people.”

Benjamin Franklin said: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.”

James Madison stated: “To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea.”

Thomas Jefferson wrote, “No government can continue good but under the control of the people; and … their minds are to be informed by education what is right and what wrong; to be encouraged in habits of virtue and to be deterred from those of vice … These are the inculcations necessary to render the people a sure basis for the structure and order of government.”

Samuel Adams said: “Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue.”

Patrick Henry stated that: “A vitiated [impure] state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom.”

John Adams stated: “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

I guess there is something cool about being witness to this shit show as it happens, but it's actually terrifying for those of us with children.

We still aren’t a “democracy.”

 

[progressive hunter]

Riots on state funded college campuses.

riots for waht reason??

 

[Woodznutz]

No I just find it amusing when people argue in metaphors and falsehoods or propaganda. I don't fall for colonizer propaganda anymore than I do anyone else's.

Why do you think virtue and morality are falsehoods and propaganda?

 

[Woodznutz]

riots for what reason??

For any reason.

 

[BackAgain]

riots for waht reason??

Evidently, when a student is the beneficiary of the public funding his or her education in whole or in part, the reason doesn’t matter.

Here, for example, the students are largely unable to explain what they are making all their noise about.

 

[progressive hunter]

For any reason.

if the riot is for a political reason I dont understand your confusion,,

 

[struth]

I still don't know what that means. The ability to defend yourself has some utility. The legal right to defend yourself offers you the utility of legal protection in a lawful society when you do. What utility does the right to defend yourself in nature provide you? I'm still not seeing you describe it. What if I don't give a shit about your natural right? In that case you better have the ability to defend yourself.

It's name calling and this is pretend and make believe. I understand why you reach for it, the above is a difficult question for you believers in natural rights.

It's not my belief, it's yours, you're supposed to be able to articulate it.

I get you don’t understand, hence why said what i said.

It’s not a difficult question at all. I find it easy to believe I have a right to life.

 

[Curried Goats]

Most arguments here aren't done in metaphors.

Well you just argued morality and virtue are required for us to remain a free society but the only literal free societies are the ones in which anarchy rules.

Why do you think virtue and morality are falsehoods and propaganda?

I know that what they are is entirely subjective.

 

[Curried Goats]

I get you don’t understand, hence why said what i said.

It’s not a difficult question at all. I find it easy to believe I have a right to life.

But you don't find it easy to explain what utility it affords you because it isn't actually real. Maybe it's utility is emotional comfort? Do you feel better imagining nature thinks you're a special little Snowflake?

 

[struth]

But you don't find it easy to explain what utility it affords you because it isn't actually real. Maybe it's utility is emotional comfort?

My life doesn’t provide any utility?? What the f are you talking about?

 

[Curried Goats]

My life doesn’t provide any utility?? What the f are you talking about?

Biological life offers utility sure. But that frightened strawman still isn't an explanation for the utility of natural rights.