What are we to make of the Bible Code?

[hangover]

Actually the majority of the original Old Testament, particularly the Pentateuch, was written in Hebrew. Only a very few portions of it were originally written in Aramaic. By the Third Century B.C., however, Aramaic had become the common language spoken in Israel, while Hebrew remained the language of Jewish sacred text and Greek, the language of general scholarship.

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but the various parchments of the Dead Sea Scrolls date circa 250 B.C. to about 65 A.D., and the majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in Hebrew. Many others were written in Aramaic and Greek, and a few were written in Arabic, with a few fragments written in Latin.

The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the accuracy and preservation of the OT, which means the stories, meanings and verses have generally remained the same, and nothing has been added or removed or changed throughout the millennia. However, it is not identical word by word to the ones that came later, which means that a "code" couldn't be correct because of the sequencing and number of words etc. are not the original. At the end of the day I think maybe the code is one of these unprovable things that like religion requires faith. You either believe it exists or don't.

Fair enough.

Objectively speaking, perhaps that's true about the Code in and of itself; however, the results of Rips, Witztum and Rotenberg, et al. ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis") of 1994, subjected to three successive peer reviews by Statistical Science's referees, has not been falsified or replicated using the same criteria and controls in any other texts whatsoever as claimed or believed by some: that is to say, concerning consistently coherent and accurate, biographical information about actual historical persons and related events including exact dates, respectively.

Also, Rips, Witztum and Rotenberg, et al. is strictly predicated on the written tradition of the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament, the Pentateuch, excluding the oral tradition or Talmud), i.e., that portion of scripture given in exact letter-by-letter sequence in the original Hebrew.

In any event, my faith is based on the testimony of the readily apparent code of the Bible, not on any potentiality of an inherent or submerged code.

That's like saying you refuse to believe in science because it's not in the bible.

 

[GISMYS]

FACE THE TRUTH!!! Unbelieving mockers and scoffers are unbelieving mockers and scoffers because they CHOOSE TO BE and no amount of proof or answers to their silly questions will ever change their unbeleving mocking and scoffing little minds!!!
LOTS OF TRUTH IN THIS POST!!! HUH??

 

[pacer]

The problem in finding future events is that we don't know what to look for.

What do you think of Michael Drosnin claiming to have predicted Rabin's assassination?

Drosnin claims Rabin's name was encoded in the bible and crossing his name were the words "assassin will assassinate." A year after Drosnin's discovery, Rabin was assassinated. Drosnin takes credit for having predicted the assassination and insists it occurred exactly as the bible predicted "in the very year" the bible code said he would be killed, all found a year in advance.

Drosnin emphasizes "in the very year". What year? Did I miss something in the video or is Drosnin suggesting 'in the very year' represents the year he made the discovery? Which would mean Drosnin is taking an event and making it "fit" the Bible codes. (Starting at 1:01:55 - 155)

 

[The Irish Ram]

Make of it what you want. I can find code in any book.

Then do so. Find hundreds of specific prophecy in one book. You chose the book.

I'll use the Old Testament. Let's look for World War 2. Here is what was encoded in my book 3,000 years ago:

World War Hitler Holocaust
Stalin Roosevelt Churchill Hitler
Germany England Russia France Japan United States
A. Hitler 1939 Nazi World War
The Holocaust 1942
Roosevelt President Dec. 7, 1941 He gave the order to strike on the day of the great defeat.
Pearl Harbor destruction of the fortress the fleet
Hiroshima atomic holocaust 1945 Hiroshima to end shooting of whole world.

Get back to me with what you uncovered in your book. Then we'll move on to world assassinations and the Oklahoma Bombing.

I can't wait! Here:
Kennedy to die Dallas Oswald sniper marksman He will strike in the head Death
Ruby He will kill the assassin
Kennedy to die R.F. Kennedy second ruler will be killed. S. Sirhan


Now you.......

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

That's what I think of anyone that takes prediction from a book that's been edited MANY times and has multiple versions out.

You can be sure they were not analyzing modern text translated a million times...your garden variety Bible everyone has at home. (Watch from 24:24)

I saw the show, another man uses Moby Dick to do similar things

so unless he tells us about something that will happen, it's as entertaining as a fortune cookie

Sorry, but it's your response that's frivolous . . . and woefully unimaginative.

You really don't understand the essence of the findings of the peer-reviewed Rips, Witztum and Rotenberg, et al. paper at all. No work to which the ELS methodology has been applied has divulged any information that is even remotely like that divulged by the Bible.

First of all, one begins by looking for specific personages or events and for clusters of additional information about them within statistically significant distances as opposed to random pairings.

Where are the peer-reviewed papers concerning the discovery of historically accurate clusters of information within statistically significant distances contained in other works?

They don't exist because other works have not been shown to contain them.

Instead, what may be derived from other large works are intelligible data, but not data that are discernibly relatable to anything of value within a statically significant distance. This is what is meant by readily apparent pictures, images or geometric patterns, not the stuff of some historical person's name found on page 60, for example, and some date reasonably relatable to that person in some random way on page 300!

The Bible has been consistently shown to contain historically accurate name-date-biographical-event pairings within statically significant distances. The mathematical probability of such historically accurate clusters of data occurring in the same text by sheer coincidence is astronomical. There's nothing mathematically profound about the random name-date pairings found in other large works, especially given the fact that the latter do not divulge the kind of detailed biographical information, let alone of a predictive nature, as that divulged by the Bible.

The Code apparently constitutes a treasure trove of innumerable historical facts that are about future personages and events, albeit, as encoded centuries before they lived or occurred, a demonstration of the genius behind the unencrypted message which itself entails literally hundreds of prophecies that have been fulfilled in history or are about to be fulfilled in the near future: a layered revelation of mystery and suspense that defies the mathematical probability of mere chance.

Your view is myopic. Once again, the encrypted messages are about the future, albeit, as affirmed within the confines of our space and time. We simply can't apprehend most of them until after they have occurred within the scope of our space and time. How could it be otherwise? We, unlike the Author, do not exist outside of the space-time continuum.

Notwithstanding, accurate information associated with known persons concerning future events have been decoded prior to their occurrence several times in the very sense that you mean: for example, precise information was known from the code about Saddam's SCUD attacks and Yitzhak Rabin's assassination prior to the events. Obviously, from our limited perspective, encoded information can only be related to future events about persons who exist in our moment of the space-time continuum.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

The problem in finding future events is that we don't know what to look for.

What do you think of Michael Drosnin claiming to have predicted Rabin's assassination?

Drosnin claims Rabin's name was encoded in the bible and crossing his name were the words "assassin will assassinate." A year after Drosnin's discovery, Rabin was assassinated. Drosnin takes credit for having predicted the assassination and insists it occurred exactly as the bible predicted "in the very year" the bible code said he would be killed, all found a year in advance.

Drosnin emphasizes "in the very year". What year? Did I miss something in the video or is Drosnin suggesting 'in the very year' represents the year he made the discovery? Which would mean Drosnin is taking an event and making it "fit" the Bible codes. (Starting at 1:01:55 - 155)

No. He alerted the prime minister's friend during the year before the year in which the code stated the assassination would take place. He discovered it in the code a few weeks before he altered the former.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the accuracy and preservation of the OT, which means the stories, meanings and verses have generally remained the same, and nothing has been added or removed or changed throughout the millennia. However, it is not identical word by word to the ones that came later, which means that a "code" couldn't be correct because of the sequencing and number of words etc. are not the original. At the end of the day I think maybe the code is one of these unprovable things that like religion requires faith. You either believe it exists or don't.

Fair enough.

Objectively speaking, perhaps that's true about the Code in and of itself; however, the results of Rips, Witztum and Rotenberg, et al. ("Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis") of 1994, subjected to three successive peer reviews by Statistical Science's referees, has not been falsified or replicated using the same criteria and controls in any other texts whatsoever as claimed or believed by some: that is to say, concerning consistently coherent and accurate, biographical information about actual historical persons and related events including exact dates, respectively.

Also, Rips, Witztum and Rotenberg, et al. is strictly predicated on the written tradition of the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament, the Pentateuch, excluding the oral tradition or Talmud), i.e., that portion of scripture given in exact letter-by-letter sequence in the original Hebrew.

In any event, my faith is based on the testimony of the readily apparent code of the Bible, not on any potentiality of an inherent or submerged code.

That's like saying you refuse to believe in science because it's not in the bible.

How do you figure that?

First of all science is not something one believes in as such; it's a methodological discipline by which we secure knowledge about the natural world. My Christian faith rests on the readily apparent teachings of the Bible. That doesn't mean I eschew information deciphered from God's general revelation.

 

[Roudy]

Make of it what you want. I can find code in any book.

Then do so. Find hundreds of specific prophecy in one book. You chose the book.

I'll use the Old Testament. Let's look for World War 2. Here is what was encoded in my book 3,000 years ago:

World War Hitler Holocaust
Stalin Roosevelt Churchill Hitler
Germany England Russia France Japan United States
A. Hitler 1939 Nazi World War
The Holocaust 1942
Roosevelt President Dec. 7, 1941 He gave the order to strike on the day of the great defeat.
Pearl Harbor destruction of the fortress the fleet
Hiroshima atomic holocaust 1945 Hiroshima to end shooting of whole world.

Get back to me with what you uncovered in your book. Then we'll move on to world assassinations and the Oklahoma Bombing.

I can't wait! Here:
Kennedy to die Dallas Oswald sniper marksman He will strike in the head Death
Ruby He will kill the assassin
Kennedy to die R.F. Kennedy second ruler will be killed. S. Sirhan


Now you.......

So you're saying that every single major historical event was predicted? Seriously? You do understand the volumes of books required just to review a few thousand years of world history and civilization. Then you can break it down individually, Roman, Greek, Persian, Mesopotamian, Assyrian, etc. and more recent history. And each of those requires volumes of books and major characters and events. And according to you guys, all the events ever occurred in human history has been codified.

This sounds more like wishful thinking to me.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That is exactly what I am saying Roudy!
The books you refer to were not written by God. Every word of the Torah was. The Bible code is nothing new. Newton tried to unlock it his whole life. It is end time code because a computer is necessary to reveal it.
And it is not just the major events, it's also ordinary people like you and me:

A policeman was kidnapped from Israel. His name, Toledano was found only once in Genesis along with this:

Captivity of Toledano
Lod
He will die.

So they went to Lod and discovered his body and took it home.

What event would you like to explore? The death of Lincoln? Rabin? Twin Towers? Your ancestors?

You can do it yourself from the comfort of your computer desk. It doesn't take a lab of researchers. A Hebrew to English dictionary is helpful though. You can find the same things everyone else is finding.

Anwar Sadat
Chaled Islambuli
Chaled will shoot Sadat
He will assassinate
Oct. 6 1981
8 Tishri
a military parade


Lincoln, found in both Genesis and Deut., had Booth across his name in both books along with: President who freed the slaves.

When does the information revealed go beyond the phenomenon of co-incidence?

God's ways are above ours. But His proof is right here in front of us. Science and archeology have become the Bible's best friend. Science is closing in on the God that created science, biology, physics, cosmos, and man.

Did you know if you or I tried to write Matthew without the Holy Spirit telling us what guidelines to follow concerning each word, it would take us over 3,000 years? The criteria is brutal. The numeric code impossible. I'd last one hour trying to meet the requirements.

 

[Roudy]

Look, I do believe that there are many inexplicable and supernatural things that occur around us all the time. But even if you discount the fact that the OT is not the original and identical OT that existed 3000 years ago and therefore the "code" would apply to all versions, I refuse to believe that the world as we know it is preordained and everything that happens was determined to happen from before.

That means you and I and others in the past had NO CHOICE, and we are all just robots doing stuff that has already been input in the computer of our destiny. Do you think that is the case, or do you think we make our own destiny, and that is how God wants it?

 

[GISMYS]

Look, I do believe that there are many inexplicable and supernatural things that occur around us all the time. But even if you discount the fact that the OT is not the original and identical OT that existed 3000 years ago and therefore the "code" would apply to all versions, I refuse to believe that the world as we know it is preordained and everything that happens was determined to happen from before.

That means you and I and others in the past had NO CHOICE, and we are all just robots doing stuff that has already been input in the computer of our destiny. Do you think that is the case, or do you think we make our own destiny, and that is how God wants it?

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

 

[Roudy]

Look, I do believe that there are many inexplicable and supernatural things that occur around us all the time. But even if you discount the fact that the OT is not the original and identical OT that existed 3000 years ago and therefore the "code" would apply to all versions, I refuse to believe that the world as we know it is preordained and everything that happens was determined to happen from before.

That means you and I and others in the past had NO CHOICE, and we are all just robots doing stuff that has already been input in the computer of our destiny. Do you think that is the case, or do you think we make our own destiny, and that is how God wants it?

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.

 

[GISMYS]

Look, I do believe that there are many inexplicable and supernatural things that occur around us all the time. But even if you discount the fact that the OT is not the original and identical OT that existed 3000 years ago and therefore the "code" would apply to all versions, I refuse to believe that the world as we know it is preordained and everything that happens was determined to happen from before.

That means you and I and others in the past had NO CHOICE, and we are all just robots doing stuff that has already been input in the computer of our destiny. Do you think that is the case, or do you think we make our own destiny, and that is how God wants it?

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.[/QUGod =============nALL YOU DO IS YOUR CHOICE,GOD made no choice for you. You are free to choose good or evil,right or wrong,to love GODor reject GOD all your choice!!! think!

 

[Roudy]

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.[/QUGod =============nALL YOU DO IS YOUR CHOICE,GOD made no choice for you. You are free to choose good or evil,right or wrong,to love GODor reject GOD all your choice!!! think!

But then you're saying God has already chosen it, and knows what your choice is, because God is beyond space and time. I just think God has a greater purpose for all of us, than watching a movie he has seen before. I think he has given us life, this world and the universe and it's up to you what you make of it. Do you think God also knows what all his creations, all the animals, will or won't do from before? And if so is there a "code" for that as well?

 

[GISMYS]

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.[/QUGod =============nALL YOU DO IS YOUR CHOICE,GOD made no choice for you. You are free to choose good or evil,right or wrong,to love GODor reject GOD all your choice!!! think!

But then you're saying God has already chosen it, and knows what your choice is, because God is beyond space and time. I just think God has a greater purpose for all of us, than watching a movie he has seen before. I think he has given us life, this world and the universe and it's up to you what you make of it. Do you think God also knows what all his creations, all the animals, will or won't do from before? And if so is there a "code" for that as well?

AGAIN!!! YOUR CHOICE IS YOUR CHOICE, YOU CANNOT TRY TO BLAME GOD THAT YOU CHOSE SIN!!!

 

[GISMYS]

But then you're saying God has already chosen it, and knows what your choice is, because God is beyond space and time. I just think God has a greater purpose for all of us, than watching a movie he has seen before. I think he has given us life, this world and the universe and it's up to you what you make of it. Do you think God also knows what all his creations, all the animals, will or won't do from before? And if so is there a "code" for that as well?

AGAIN!!! YOUR CHOICE IS YOUR CHOICE, YOU CANNOT TRY TO BLAME GOD THAT YOU CHOSE SIN!!!

God is the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end,God sees time (right now) from start to finish and everything in between now.

 

[Roudy]

But then you're saying God has already chosen it, and knows what your choice is, because God is beyond space and time. I just think God has a greater purpose for all of us, than watching a movie he has seen before. I think he has given us life, this world and the universe and it's up to you what you make of it. Do you think God also knows what all his creations, all the animals, will or won't do from before? And if so is there a "code" for that as well?

AGAIN!!! YOUR CHOICE IS YOUR CHOICE, YOU CANNOT TRY TO BLAME GOD THAT YOU CHOSE SIN!!!

But you're saying that God can see what you chose from before. Everything is pre scripted then as far as God is concerned. You and I might think we are choosing, but God already knows what your choice will be, because it's already "programmed".

There are some contradictions here. To say the least.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Look, I do believe that there are many inexplicable and supernatural things that occur around us all the time. But even if you discount the fact that the OT is not the original and identical OT that existed 3000 years ago and therefore the "code" would apply to all versions, I refuse to believe that the world as we know it is preordained and everything that happens was determined to happen from before.

That means you and I and others in the past had NO CHOICE, and we are all just robots doing stuff that has already been input in the computer of our destiny. Do you think that is the case, or do you think we make our own destiny, and that is how God wants it?

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.

So you're talking about the problem of free will in the face of omniscience.

But there's no other way to recon God but as a Being that exists outside the space-time continuum. Hence, He would necessarily know all things that have happened, that are happening right now and are going to happen in the space-time continuum.

He lives in the eternal now. All things that have ever happened are before His eyes right now!

Do ya feel me?

 

[GISMYS]

Why is this truth so hard for you to understand?? YES!!! GOD KNOWS what you will choose to do GOD HAS SEEN YOUR LIFE AND ALL TIME TO THE END OF THIS AGE. GOD is the Alpha and O mega =the beginning and the end, but just because God already knows what choice you will make does NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH THAT YOUR CHOICE WAS YOUR CHOICE!

 

[Roudy]

wrong thinking!!! just because God is outside time and already sees your life from beginning to end and knows everything you will ever do does not change the fact that what you do and will do is all YOUR CHOICE!!!

How can it be your choice if God has already chosen it for you. I'm not saying I disagree, many things have happened to me and others, and I've said maybe that's what God wanted.

I'm saying those are the things I struggle with. So we are all just going through the motions and all the events in our life has already been decided? I don't know if that's true, and if it makes me feel better.

So you're talking about the problem of free will in the face of omniscience.

But there's no other way to recon God but as a Being that exists outside the space-time continuum. Hence, He would necessarily know all things that have happened, that are happening right now and are going to happen in the space-time continuum.

He lives in the eternal now. All things that have ever happened are before His eyes right now!

Do ya feel me?

Yes I totally understand what you're saying. But don't understand why God would create a world that he already knows what the outcome would be, and let us think that we are in control of our destiny, when our destiny has been predetermined.

I guess it falls into the category of things we don't know that we don't know.