what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[Chuckt]

I asked for proof that the bible isn't just the word of the men who wrote it. So far you've given me nothing but excuses why you can't say. So you have nothing. Got it.

When you're willing to pay for truth, I might get an honest audience.

What point is there in making a case if I already know you are going to say, "no"?

100+ Books Exploring the Case for Christianity
100+ Books Exploring the Case for Christianity

Let me know when you're done reading

So out of all the books you've read... give me your 5 best reasons/proofs that your invisible friend exists and makes deformed babies even today.

Until you make an honest effort on reading a lot of them, you can't confuse me with a person who is interested in truth.

 

[Bumberclyde]

When you're willing to pay for truth, I might get an honest audience.

What point is there in making a case if I already know you are going to say, "no"?

100+ Books Exploring the Case for Christianity
100+ Books Exploring the Case for Christianity

Let me know when you're done reading

So out of all the books you've read... give me your 5 best reasons/proofs that your invisible friend exists and makes deformed babies even today.

Until you make an honest effort on reading a lot of them, you can't confuse me with a person who is interested in truth.

Don't worry, there's NO chance that I'd confuse you with a person who is interested in truth.
You have nothing. No truth. Nothing.

 

[Lipush]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

 

[barry1960]

No, not really ironic at all. There's nothing mean spirited in pointing out (repeatedly) that statements that I never made are being attributed to me, and then criticized.

What is ironic is that people claim there's nothing in a book they haven't read that will justify belief.

THAT'S ironic.

Kosher Girl, having seen many of your posts, perhaps it is best you refrain from discussions of Christianity and your support of it. People might discredit Christianity based on your character as it is revealed on this forum. It is sad when people turn away from Christ based upon the actions of Christians.

To the rest of you, Christianity is about faith. If you do not wish to believe, then no argument will convince you. My suggestion would be to read the book of John in the New Testament with an open mind.

 

[Bumberclyde]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

 

[Avatar4321]

So out of all the books you've read... give me your 5 best reasons/proofs that your invisible friend exists and makes deformed babies even today.

Until you make an honest effort on reading a lot of them, you can't confuse me with a person who is interested in truth.

Don't worry, there's NO chance that I'd confuse you with a person who is interested in truth.
You have nothing. No truth. Nothing.

So because you are unwilling to actually study the subject, he is the one uninterested in truth?

 

[Avatar4321]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

Judaism and Christianity are the same religion. Everyone just doesn't realize it.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Until you make an honest effort on reading a lot of them, you can't confuse me with a person who is interested in truth.

Don't worry, there's NO chance that I'd confuse you with a person who is interested in truth.
You have nothing. No truth. Nothing.

So because you are unwilling to actually study the subject, he is the one uninterested in truth?

What makes you ASSUME that because I don't agree with you that I haven't studied the subject? Wishful thinking?

 

[Bumberclyde]

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

Judaism and Christianity are the same religion. Everyone just doesn't realize it.

Ya, that must be why you have to CONVERT to join the other side.

 

[Avatar4321]

Don't worry, there's NO chance that I'd confuse you with a person who is interested in truth.
You have nothing. No truth. Nothing.

So because you are unwilling to actually study the subject, he is the one uninterested in truth?

What makes you ASSUME that because I don't agree with you that I haven't studied the subject? Wishful thinking?

Not assuming anything. You've already made it quite clear by blowing off any suggestion on studying the subject.

I don't know why there are so many of you who seem to think we can't read what you write and learn anything about you from it.

What books have you read on the subject?

 

[numan]

To the rest of you, Christianity is about faith. If you do not wish to believe, then no argument will convince you. My suggestion would be to read the book of John in the New Testament with an open mind.

I think what you really mean is, with an EMPTY mind!! · ·

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[BreezeWood]

To the rest of you, Christianity is about faith. If you do not wish to believe, then no argument will convince you. My suggestion would be to read the book of John in the New Testament with an open mind.

I think what you really mean is, with an EMPTY mind!! · ·

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indeed

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[Bumberclyde]

So because you are unwilling to actually study the subject, he is the one uninterested in truth?

What makes you ASSUME that because I don't agree with you that I haven't studied the subject? Wishful thinking?

Not assuming anything. You've already made it quite clear by blowing off any suggestion on studying the subject.

I don't know why there are so many of you who seem to think we can't read what you write and learn anything about you from it.

What books have you read on the subject?

The fucking douchesack gave me a list of 100 books to read before he'd answer my question. You call that refusing to study?

I've read the bible. Is that good enough for you?

 

[hobelim]

Well yes, if there was a bit of documented evidence supporting the island's return on that day. And if I saw it happen, of course.

But if it was simply a few guys saying that this happened 50 years ago, and that we "just had to take their word for it", then probably not. Why would I?

I don't think it's silly to be skeptical of extraordinary claims without evidence; I'm sure you're the same way when it comes to other subject matters.

How do we know the guys weren't just spicing up the story to gain some more attention? This sort of thing happens quite frequently.

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As you may already know many stories in scripture, as written, are openly presented as parables and fairy tales. A talking snake in the very first book should have been a dead giveaway.

My question is what difference would it make if the story of the three little pigs was embellished further than the way you first heard it? Wouldn't the moral of the story remain ? Would it matter if you embellished it and how many mistakes would you make in the retelling of the story even if you haven't heard it told since you were a child?

If a group of scientists came together to disprove the story of the three little pigs based on irrefutable scientific evidence that pigs can't talk wouldn't they just be proving false that which the story is not about?

In the same way the story of the creation is not a story about the creation of the solar system, the story of the creation of man is not about the first human being, the death and resurrection of Jesus is not about physical death or biological life, and the bodily ascension of Jesus into heaven is not about him floating up into the sky.

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it buried it again..." matthew 13:44


Any part of a story in scripture that defies logic or reality is intentionally place there like a giant X on a treasure map marking where something of great value is buried and hidden.


If you look and look, and keep on looking, you will find it.

I think there's plenty of great stuff in there, and I have read substantial parts of the Bible, however I have never felt compelled to take the plunge and say that "Jesus MUST be the Son of God" because there's really no compelling evidence to verify that claim.

The fact is, I simply don't know for sure what the right story is, so until I do I'm going to keep my mind open to all possibilities and pick up various bits and pieces from philosophies I like along the way.

Know what I mean?

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Yes I know what you mean and I think you have a sensible approach to the subjects.



To see evidence of Jesus being the son of God one must understand what the expression means and what was expected of the one who was given that position by God.


Think of Son of God as just a relational metaphor, based in part on the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18:18, indicating closeness and position to God above that of a servant as was the term for ordinary prophets.


So the key to finding proof whether Jesus was this prophet who would 'convey all of Gods commands' is to see if Jesus revealed a better more rational way to understand and conform to the commands of God that has never been seen or heard before that even the least intelligent or most illiterate could comprehend.

When Jesus said to eat his flesh he accomplished just that by showing a better way to understand kosher law that has nothing whatever to do with what you make for dinner.

 

[hobelim]

That being said, did you ever consider that in scripture heaven and hell like the living and the dead are metaphors that allude to an actual state of conscious existence that many people here demonstrate?

Isn't what is posted on these boards evidence of minds existing in completely separate places?

With all due respect, the people here are pretty smart and everything.

I went trying to disprove annihilationism and I read journal articles, different translations, MP3's, theology books and a book that was specifically written during the time when the heresy was an issue. I probably spent 300 hours trying to disprove annihilationism but proof isn't the issue here when your answer is "no" and when people would rather make stuff up because the issue is that you really don't want to listen even if you said you did. Because you can make stuff up, there wouldn't be any limit on the amount of defending the Bible that I would have to do because in the end, the only person that can change you is you.

Even though you are all people and I would respect you as such, you don't have credentials and I don't see that many of you have gone to Bible college.

How do we know you aren't just some user sitting in your pajamas instead of someone who knows Hereneutics (Biblical Interpretation)? After all, you read from a Bible that doesn't agree with the respected literal translations that are word for word which means your translation adds or subtracts from the Word of God.

I have commentaries and I have made lists and I can make a list from intelligent scholars who will tell me otherwise which makes the average user here untrustworthy in their interpretation and one of the methods here is gerrymandering where you put the information that only you want to present in an order to prove what you want.

Chuck

LOL... I hate to break the news to you but if in spite of your amazing education you never learned that a talking snake indicates a fairy tale your education is worthless and all those scholars with such impressive accolades are blind.

 

[Derideo_Te]

For someone claiming to be so erudite you seem to be having a problem with basic comprehension. Try rereading this subpart of the thread again. It was KG who made the allegation about intellect.

As for your bragging about the number of "bible references" that is meaningless because anyone can add references to text. They only count if they support the argument. Unfortunately anything that is a self referencing doesn't count either. The entire bible is self referential. This is all basic academia 101.

Lastly if you cannot prove beyond any doubt that what you are saying is actually the "truth" then anyone with critical thinking skills is going to want to satisfy themselves regarding the anomalies in your position. Not one of the tens of thousands of people who have studied and written about the bible have ever managed to resolve all of the contradictions without invoking "faith". No amount of studying or writing of papers is going to get you into "heaven" if it doesn't exist. Have a nice day.

It isn't basic comprehension because two verses can take five hours of Biblical interpretation or more. What I want you to do is choose two verses and then write down 400 observations on the text. Then tell me you have "comprehension".

You can take all of the Bible references you want and try to gather them with a rake but that doesn't mean you can correctly assemble them and if you did, I know pastors who have been doing it a while who would just stick up their nose at the work.

I took a course on Biblical interpretation and it isn't always as simple as you think.
This is why those who study have ability and those with intellect would fail and make mistakes and I have made mistakes.

I have argued one of those "hammer all he can" atheists and even with his intellect, he didn't understand basic Hebrew or Greek definitions or how to work with a passage to resolve contradictions.

Until you are a believer, the Bible wasn't exactly written for you because you can't fully understand it because it requires God's help to furnish Inspiration, Illumination and Revelation.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

That you for proving my prediction correct. Have a nice day!

 

[The Irish Ram]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

Study to show your self approved.

Your inner soul stinks. Thinkings will get you no where because thinkings do not remove sin. Pure blood is the ONLY thing that removes sin.
You haven't read enough if you don't even understand the basics.

As for the roll call in Heaven, tell Moses he's not there, or the apple of God's eye, David, or Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Aaron, Abraham and Sarah, Jesus Christ.......................

 

[koshergrl]

No, not really ironic at all. There's nothing mean spirited in pointing out (repeatedly) that statements that I never made are being attributed to me, and then criticized.

What is ironic is that people claim there's nothing in a book they haven't read that will justify belief.

THAT'S ironic.

Kosher Girl, having seen many of your posts, perhaps it is best you refrain from discussions of Christianity and your support of it. People might discredit Christianity based on your character as it is revealed on this forum. It is sad when people turn away from Christ based upon the actions of Christians.

To the rest of you, Christianity is about faith. If you do not wish to believe, then no argument will convince you. My suggestion would be to read the book of John in the New Testament with an open mind.

Perhaps you missed this, oh sanctimonious one:

"Matthew 18:15 ESV
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone."

My advice to one who claims to be concerned about the appearance of the church...don't criticize fellow Christians in front of non-believers. It makes you appear petty, and shows the church as divisive.

 

[ABikerSailor]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

Really? Jews don't go to Heaven?

You DO realize that Jesus was Jewish, right?

Why would he ban Himself from Heaven with His own religion?

Sorry, but the Christians are wrong.

 

[Bumberclyde]

your inner soul and thinkings in the present one.

Jews don't go to heaven, only Christians.

Really? Jews don't go to Heaven?

You DO realize that Jesus was Jewish, right?

Why would he ban Himself from Heaven with His own religion?

Sorry, but the Christians are wrong.

Jesus was the first Christian. Don't you know anything? Geez!