What Does the American Flag Mean to the World?

[georgephillip]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

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Makes ya wonder why the current administration has not voiced strong, unequivocal support for the protesters. Deal with China? Cash trumps freedom in a transactional, non-ideological president.

Makes ya wonder why the current administration has not voiced strong, unequivocal support for the protesters. Deal with China? Cash trumps freedom in a transactional, non-ideological president.

Trump the crony-capitalist knows full well which side delivers his Chinese patents.

"State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are organized and managed as state-owned business enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, wage labor and centralized management), or where there is otherwise a dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized along business-management practices) or of publicly listed corporations in which the state has controlling shares.[1]

"Marxist literature defines state capitalism as a social system combining capitalism with ownership or control by a state— by this definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single huge corporation, extracting the surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.[2]"

State capitalism - Wikipedia

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

"To address the backlash, the NFL released a national anthem policy in May 2018, stating that players and team personnel were required to stand during the national anthem. Those who chose not to stand were required to remain in the locker room."

This makes my point even more strong. The NFL, as of May 2018 apparently, doesn't even require players to spend two crummy minutes pretending they are honoring this country anymore.
As I said, no one is forced to venerate the flag, as you so idiotically claimed, and you've just helped me prove that.

First - thank you for my word of the day, venerate. I had to look it up.

I'm torn on the NFL/Flag issue for a variety of reasons but they all fall within 3 buckets:

• Racial prejudice
  
• Freedom of speech
• Honoring our country

If I had the answer on how to accomplish all 3 simultaneously I would market it. I will say that a message will fail if it's framed in a way that insults a majority of people. Black Lives Matters was also poorly launched and the objective was damaged because it was perceived as an insult or slight to everyone who wasn't black (whether real or imagined). Creating a narrative or movement that is self serving without others calling it self serving was the problem in both these cases.

We're still debating these issues and those who introduced them are still struggling to redefine the meaning of both movements.

I find it disturbing that we conflate racial prejudice with honoring of our veterans.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

View attachment 278253 View attachment 278254 View attachment 278255 View attachment 278256 View attachment 278257 View attachment 278258 View attachment 278259 View attachment 278260

Makes ya wonder why the current administration has not voiced strong, unequivocal support for the protesters. Deal with China? Cash trumps freedom in a transactional, non-ideological president.

Makes ya wonder why the current administration has not voiced strong, unequivocal support for the protesters. Deal with China? Cash trumps freedom in a transactional, non-ideological president.

Trump the crony-capitalist knows full well which side delivers his Chinese patents.

"State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are organized and managed as state-owned business enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, wage labor and centralized management), or where there is otherwise a dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized along business-management practices) or of publicly listed corporations in which the state has controlling shares.[1]

"Marxist literature defines state capitalism as a social system combining capitalism with ownership or control by a state— by this definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single huge corporation, extracting the surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.[2]"

State capitalism - Wikipedia

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

First - thank you for my word of the day, venerate. I had to look it up.

I'm torn on the NFL/Flag issue for a variety of reasons but they all fall within 3 buckets:

• Racial prejudice
  
• Freedom of speech
• Honoring our country

If I had the answer on how to accomplish all 3 simultaneously I would market it. I will say that a message will fail if it's framed in a way that insults a majority of people. Black Lives Matters was also poorly launched and the objective was damaged because it was perceived as an insult or slight to everyone who wasn't black (whether real or imagined). Creating a narrative or movement that is self serving without others calling it self serving was the problem in both these cases.

We're still debating these issues and those who introduced them are still struggling to redefine the meaning of both movements.

You are welcome, first of all, and I have to say this issue doesn't interest me all that much except in that it illustrates what a
hollow claim it is to say that people are compelled to honor or respect our flag and values. They aren't!
It's an absurd claim coming from a whiny loser, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not a fan of the NFL and their stance on the national anthem and how their players treat it really reveals how the matter is purely one of public relations for them.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

View attachment 278253 View attachment 278254 View attachment 278255 View attachment 278256 View attachment 278257 View attachment 278258 View attachment 278259 View attachment 278260

It means they want Trump's help with their protest. That's it.

EXACTLY! They see the US as a beacon of hope. We are a nation that the world looks at as someone who helps other nations fight against tyrants. Our reputation is great!

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only because the alternative was worse.

 

[cnm]

The league has determined it is good for their image and it pleases their customers so this is an employment issue...not one of forced patriotism. The NFL can force NO ONE to venerate the American flag. They only require you stand up for a brief time.

You are worthy of your username, Citizen.

Doubleplusgood.

 

[Taz]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

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Smells of desperation.

 

[georgephillip]

Your ignorance nearly matches your arrogance, Butch:

Slavery Made America

"...by 1860, there were more millionaires (slaveholders all) living in the lower Mississippi Valley than anywhere else in the United States.

"In the same year, the nearly 4 million American slaves were worth some $3.5 billion, making them the largest single financial asset in the entire U.S. economy, worth more than all manufacturing and railroads combined.

"So, of course, the war was rooted in these two expanding and competing economies—but competing over what? What eventually tore asunder America's political culture was slavery's expansion into the Western territories."

How does any of this dubious cut and paste apply to or contradict what I posted?
You must work very hard to remain so ignorant and in your bubble.

How does any of this dubious cut and paste apply to or contradict what I posted?
You must work very hard to remain so ignorant and in your bubble.

You must be the dumbest AND the saltiest cracker in the box, Cracker.
You claimed white supremacists on the streets of Charlottsville in 2017 didn't define an America that "has corrected and long since moved past the sin of slavery" when, in fact, capitalism and white supremacy continue to oppress and alienate people of color today in ways similar to the effects of chattel slavery and Jim Crow.

The Drug War, Mass Incarceration and Race (English/Spanish)
fyi: it's never too late to try college.

What the fuck? Could it possibly be they commit the crimes?

.

What the fuck? Could it possibly be they commit the crimes?

If it's true 94% of US prison inmates have never received a trial, how would we know if they committed a crime?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your ignorance nearly matches your arrogance, Butch:

Slavery Made America

"...by 1860, there were more millionaires (slaveholders all) living in the lower Mississippi Valley than anywhere else in the United States.

"In the same year, the nearly 4 million American slaves were worth some $3.5 billion, making them the largest single financial asset in the entire U.S. economy, worth more than all manufacturing and railroads combined.

"So, of course, the war was rooted in these two expanding and competing economies—but competing over what? What eventually tore asunder America's political culture was slavery's expansion into the Western territories."

How does any of this dubious cut and paste apply to or contradict what I posted?
You must work very hard to remain so ignorant and in your bubble.

How does any of this dubious cut and paste apply to or contradict what I posted?
You must work very hard to remain so ignorant and in your bubble.

You must be the dumbest AND the saltiest cracker in the box, Cracker.
You claimed white supremacists on the streets of Charlottsville in 2017 didn't define an America that "has corrected and long since moved past the sin of slavery" when, in fact, capitalism and white supremacy continue to oppress and alienate people of color today in ways similar to the effects of chattel slavery and Jim Crow.

The Drug War, Mass Incarceration and Race (English/Spanish)
fyi: it's never too late to try college.

What the fuck? Could it possibly be they commit the crimes?

.

What the fuck? Could it possibly be they commit the crimes?

If it's true 94% of US prison inmates have never received a trial, how would we know if they committed a crime?

I was just reading about that yesterday, a few days ago? I think it was kavanaugh that was commenting on it, every one now a days takes plea bargains and dont dare take it to trial.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Hell thinking about it , Even Bill Clinton and Rush Limbaugh took a deal...they knew they would of been screwed if it ever went to trial..


Lol



.

 

[Billiejeens]

Can you spot any familiar faces?

No. Is a small band of miscreants and losers in Charlottesville supposed to define America as it has corrected and
long since moved past the sin of slavery (which was never embraced outside of the deep South) as I documented?

Get a life, Junior. You are a hateful squalid little turd.

He’s just envious that America is the greatest nation in history.

He’s just envious that America is the greatest nation in history.

White Supremacy Has Never Been Fringe

No one has to be mean to another person - due to their race.
But, correct it has never been fringe - White Societies will always have superior results

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Can you spot any familiar faces?

No. Is a small band of miscreants and losers in Charlottesville supposed to define America as it has corrected and
long since moved past the sin of slavery (which was never embraced outside of the deep South) as I documented?

Get a life, Junior. You are a hateful squalid little turd.

No. Is a small band of miscreants and losers in Charlottesville supposed to define America as it has corrected and
long since moved past the sin of slavery (which was never embraced outside of the deep South) as I documented?

Get a life, Junior. You are a hateful squalid little turd.

Your ignorance nearly matches your arrogance, Butch:

Slavery Made America

"...by 1860, there were more millionaires (slaveholders all) living in the lower Mississippi Valley than anywhere else in the United States.

"In the same year, the nearly 4 million American slaves were worth some $3.5 billion, making them the largest single financial asset in the entire U.S. economy, worth more than all manufacturing and railroads combined.

"So, of course, the war was rooted in these two expanding and competing economies—but competing over what? What eventually tore asunder America's political culture was slavery's expansion into the Western territories."

Slaves were cheap labor. They didn’t make squat.
American ingenuity and ambition made America.

Slaves were cheap labor. They didn’t make squat.
American ingenuity and ambition made America.

Human labor made America just like every other society in history, and "free" labor was a big part of US economic expansion during the first century of its existence.

The lifestyle you and I enjoy today was built on chattel slavery and genocide.

The Economics of the Civil War

"The Northern states also had a huge economic stake in slavery and the cotton trade.

"The first half of the nineteenth century witnessed an enormous increase in the production of short-staple cotton in the South, and most of that cotton was exported to Great Britain and Europe. Figure 2 charts the growth of cotton exports from 1815 to 1860.

"By the mid 1830s, cotton shipments accounted for more than half the value of all exports from the United States.

"Note that there is a marked similarity between the trends in the export of cotton and the rising value of the slave population depicted in Figure 1.

"There could be little doubt that the prosperity of the slave economy rested on its ability to produce cotton more efficiently than any other region of the world."

Yada, yada, yada. Labor is overhead. Vision is what drives success.

 

[Issa]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

View attachment 278253 View attachment 278254 View attachment 278255 View attachment 278256 View attachment 278257 View attachment 278258 View attachment 278259 View attachment 278260

It means they want Trump's help with their protest. That's it.

EXACTLY! They see the US as a beacon of hope. We are a nation that the world looks at as someone who helps other nations fight against tyrants. Our reputation is great!

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

We hear so many times how the Left wring their hands in angst about world opinion.
Scenes from Hong Kong:

View attachment 278253 View attachment 278254 View attachment 278255 View attachment 278256 View attachment 278257 View attachment 278258 View attachment 278259 View attachment 278260

It means they want Trump's help with their protest. That's it.

EXACTLY! They see the US as a beacon of hope. We are a nation that the world looks at as someone who helps other nations fight against tyrants. Our reputation is great!

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

Supply the examples.

 

[Issa]

It means they want Trump's help with their protest. That's it.

EXACTLY! They see the US as a beacon of hope. We are a nation that the world looks at as someone who helps other nations fight against tyrants. Our reputation is great!

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

Supply the examples.

They backed Moubarak for example.
Go find an explanation.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

EXACTLY! They see the US as a beacon of hope. We are a nation that the world looks at as someone who helps other nations fight against tyrants. Our reputation is great!

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

Supply the examples.

They backed Moubarak for example.
Go find an explanation.

The alternative was the Muslim brotherhood.

 

[Issa]

We have backed tyrants everywhere.

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

Supply the examples.

They backed Moubarak for example.
Go find an explanation.

The alternative was the Muslim brotherhood.

Nope wrong. There weren't close to power.
The US stood silent on both occasions one when the Egyptians elected the brotherhood democratically and also when the army executed the coup.

 

[georgephillip]

"To address the backlash, the NFL released a national anthem policy in May 2018, stating that players and team personnel were required to stand during the national anthem. Those who chose not to stand were required to remain in the locker room."

This makes my point even more strong. The NFL, as of May 2018 apparently, doesn't even require players to spend two crummy minutes pretending they are honoring this country anymore.
As I said, no one is forced to venerate the flag, as you so idiotically claimed, and you've just helped me prove that.

This makes my point even more strong. The NFL, as of May 2018 apparently, doesn't even require players to spend two crummy minutes pretending they are honoring this country anymore.
As I said, no one is forced to venerate the flag, as you so idiotically claimed, and you've just helped me prove that.

The NFL has no right to encourage its employees demonstrate fealty to a flag responsible for the death, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent human beings since the end of WWII, Why would any rational person endorse 7 decades of war crimes?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Only within the context of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

Nah bullshit.

Supply the examples.

They backed Moubarak for example.
Go find an explanation.

The alternative was the Muslim brotherhood.

Nope wrong. There weren't close to power.
The US stood silent on both occasions one when the Egyptians elected the brotherhood democratically and also when the army executed the coup.

On what planet was the Muslim Brotherhood not close to power?

“The party won almost half the seats in the 2011–12 parliamentary elections, and its candidate, Mohamed Morsi, won the June 2012 presidential election.[10] “

 

[georgephillip]

White Supremacy Has Never Been Fringe

Of course it has. Over time explicitly racist groups like the Klan and Nazis have become more and more marginalized
and held is disrepute until today there are a tiny isolated minority.
You are an asshole. A cut and paste asshole who never justifies b.s. but just jumps from citation to citation in a cut and paste chain of unsubstantiated claims.

Of course it has. Over time explicitly racist groups like the Klan and Nazis have become more and more marginalized
and held is disrepute until today there are a tiny isolated minority.
You are an asshole. A cut and paste asshole who never justifies b.s. but just jumps from citation to citation in a cut and paste chain of unsubstantiated claims.

Here's some more cut and paste, Loon; have someone read it to you since you obviously can't manage that without help:

White Supremacy Has Never Been Fringe

"Federal laws against lynching never passed in large part because many officials in Washington, up to and including sitting presidents, were themselves sympathetic to white supremacy or reluctant to pick a fight with Southern lawmakers and voters.

"Which is to say: it has historically been politically inconvenient for government officials to confront violent white supremacy.

Anyone with a single neuron firing can see how mainstream white supremacy is today in the land of MAGA.

Bahamas Dorian survivor: 'Please, please somebody help us' - CNN

"This is in large part because it is impossible to find any period in American politics in which the notion that there should be a racial order with white people at the top, or the idea that the United States is and should remain a country for white people, has not enjoyed a robust mainstream constituency."