What Is "Fair Share of Taxes"?

[kaz]

Now Democrats advocating high taxes and evading (Buffett, Gates) and cheating on them (Daschle, Rangle), that's OK ...

Dem want to raise taxes ONLY on those making over $250k, dumbass dupe. For DECADES. Bought off GOP pandering to the megarich and giant corpshave ruined the nonrich and the country.

Assuming you're "nonrich", what exactly ruined you? And how is it anyone's fault?

Assuming makes an ass out of YOU. The nonrich and the country as a whole have been ruined the last 35 years by the New BS GOP and their chumps like you. It's called POLITICS. see sig- all FACT. That you fools don't know.

How has the GOP ruined the country?

Where do we stArt!?!

How about taking us into 2 decades long unfunded wars ! Let's start there !

You mean like Kosovo, Bosnia, Haiti, Libya, Syria, the Kurdish area of northern Iraq, no fly zones in northern and southern Iraq, continuing Somalia, continuing Iraq, expanding Afghanistan and bombing the Sudan? That did suck. And that was ... you ... guy ...

Republican wars suck, and you people are all that too. Clinton attacked more countries than W, Obama continued and expanded W's policies. It's boff y'all, wheel chair boy. Timmy!

 

[kaz]

You realize that income taxes are paid by employers, right? So, how does it make sense to continue to tax companies MORE if they have more onshore employees working for them? Doesn't that disincent what we want? Jobs?

The ideal tax is the Fair Tax. You tax the source of all taxes, the economy, flatly once and eliminate the IRS entirely

Income tax is not paid by employers it is withheld from employees' paychecks and sent into the treasury by the employer on behalf of each employee

So income taxes aren't part what employers have to pay employees? The money doesn't come from their employer's customers? How does that work? Where does it come from then? It just appears in paychecks from nowhere?

I have an issue with the way the fair tax works

It's ridiculous to charge a higher tax then cut a check to each and every person in the country once a month. They call it a prebate . That is a ridiculously expensive endeavor.

If they would reduce the rate and not give any back I could get behind the idea but until they do that I can't support it

I prefer no prebate as well, but you have "an issue" with the Fair Tax and reject it, but you want to keep the Gestapo IRS and reporting to the government every dollar you earn from every source as if it's any of their f'ing business? Since your standard is "an issue," that isn't "an issue" for you?

What about that the Fair Tax makes people who work in cash industries and don't pay income taxes now at all taxpayers sharing the load?

What about that the Fair Tax removes the incentive to move employees offshore and automate to avoid all the employee taxes (Social Security, Medicare, employee income taxes, unemployment, ...)

What about that the Fair Tax levels the playing field between US and foreign corporations who don't have to pay corporate taxes now?

And again, why should US companies be punished with MORE taxes for onshore jobs? Isn't that just butt stupid?

You need to learn about payroll and how it works

If I pay an employee 2000 bi weekly his net pay is 1439
I withhold federal taxes of 316
FICA taxes of 149
State taxes of 91 ( varies by state obviously)

None of those are paid by me the employer all I do as the employer is send that money withheld to the state and federal treasuries

The only expense I pay is the matching contributions for FICA but that is calculated into my payroll costs

I'm being realistic in saying that we won't be able to abolish the income tax so if that is the case then we should put our efforts into making it a flat tax from dollar one

A flat tax would allow us to gut the IRS almost completely

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

 

[kaz]

All should pay some. We all enjoy the benefits of our country. Nobody should get a free ride. Nearly 50% of Americans pay no taxes and these same people are the same people that receive the most support form the government. It should be "all pay some and not some pay all"

Nearly 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax, but they pay sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, SS and Medicare taxes, and so on. Quit lying by saying that 50% don't pay any taxes, because it's a straight out lie.

buy a stick of gum, and you're a taxpayer, bam!

LOL

BTW, I thought SS and Medicare were people investing in their own future. It was just a lie, huh, the're just taxes ...

Lower income earners pay the highest percentage of state taxes in almost every state. The less you make, the greater percentage of your income you pay in state taxes. The wealthy pay the least at the state level as a percentage of income. It's amazing how cons never discuss this absurd fact.

That's a state by state issue and it makes no sense to talk about it here which is why I tens to only talk about federal taxes as that is consistent across the country

But tell me this why not treat a dollar like everything else we tax?

Federal taxes are also much higher, particularly for higher income people. Federal taxes also include taxes for many State services which should be removed and put into State taxes so States could decide how they want their money spent

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes I think my money is my property I must want anarchy

Tell me if someone stole your money would you call the cops or would you just say oh well that money wasn't really my property?

LMAO. Hey do you pay your bills for services rendered or goods received? Hey, those vendors are taking your money.

The government collects for goods and services provided as well. Taxes pay for goods and services provided to you.

If you don't take advantage of the goods and services provided by the government, that's on you.

But you still have to contribute to the best of your ability to pay for government services rendered. Just like you pay other bills.

You don't like that? Tough shit.

No those vendors aren't taking my money I enter into a VOLUNTARY trade of their products and/or services in exchange for my money

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

And best of my ability has nothing to do with taxation. A tax is a tax. You pay the exact same gas tax as a rich guy don't you? So why should you pay a lower percentage of your income for the income tax?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Income tax is not paid by employers it is withheld from employees' paychecks and sent into the treasury by the employer on behalf of each employee

So income taxes aren't part what employers have to pay employees? The money doesn't come from their employer's customers? How does that work? Where does it come from then? It just appears in paychecks from nowhere?

I have an issue with the way the fair tax works

It's ridiculous to charge a higher tax then cut a check to each and every person in the country once a month. They call it a prebate . That is a ridiculously expensive endeavor.

If they would reduce the rate and not give any back I could get behind the idea but until they do that I can't support it

I prefer no prebate as well, but you have "an issue" with the Fair Tax and reject it, but you want to keep the Gestapo IRS and reporting to the government every dollar you earn from every source as if it's any of their f'ing business? Since your standard is "an issue," that isn't "an issue" for you?

What about that the Fair Tax makes people who work in cash industries and don't pay income taxes now at all taxpayers sharing the load?

What about that the Fair Tax removes the incentive to move employees offshore and automate to avoid all the employee taxes (Social Security, Medicare, employee income taxes, unemployment, ...)

What about that the Fair Tax levels the playing field between US and foreign corporations who don't have to pay corporate taxes now?

And again, why should US companies be punished with MORE taxes for onshore jobs? Isn't that just butt stupid?

You need to learn about payroll and how it works

If I pay an employee 2000 bi weekly his net pay is 1439
I withhold federal taxes of 316
FICA taxes of 149
State taxes of 91 ( varies by state obviously)

None of those are paid by me the employer all I do as the employer is send that money withheld to the state and federal treasuries

The only expense I pay is the matching contributions for FICA but that is calculated into my payroll costs

I'm being realistic in saying that we won't be able to abolish the income tax so if that is the case then we should put our efforts into making it a flat tax from dollar one

A flat tax would allow us to gut the IRS almost completely

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

 

[kaz]

So income taxes aren't part what employers have to pay employees? The money doesn't come from their employer's customers? How does that work? Where does it come from then? It just appears in paychecks from nowhere?

I prefer no prebate as well, but you have "an issue" with the Fair Tax and reject it, but you want to keep the Gestapo IRS and reporting to the government every dollar you earn from every source as if it's any of their f'ing business? Since your standard is "an issue," that isn't "an issue" for you?

What about that the Fair Tax makes people who work in cash industries and don't pay income taxes now at all taxpayers sharing the load?

What about that the Fair Tax removes the incentive to move employees offshore and automate to avoid all the employee taxes (Social Security, Medicare, employee income taxes, unemployment, ...)

What about that the Fair Tax levels the playing field between US and foreign corporations who don't have to pay corporate taxes now?

And again, why should US companies be punished with MORE taxes for onshore jobs? Isn't that just butt stupid?

You need to learn about payroll and how it works

If I pay an employee 2000 bi weekly his net pay is 1439
I withhold federal taxes of 316
FICA taxes of 149
State taxes of 91 ( varies by state obviously)

None of those are paid by me the employer all I do as the employer is send that money withheld to the state and federal treasuries

The only expense I pay is the matching contributions for FICA but that is calculated into my payroll costs

I'm being realistic in saying that we won't be able to abolish the income tax so if that is the case then we should put our efforts into making it a flat tax from dollar one

A flat tax would allow us to gut the IRS almost completely

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

And you don't understand how your company prices and market labor rates are driven by markets, which are driven by supply and demand? I'm sure you are a good business owner, but you need to take an econ course or two. That would be enough for you to understand how market prices are set.

Just like companies need to make a margin over their costs, employees need to make a profit over what they put into developing themselves, education, training, hard work. They are well aware of that relative value to their peers and expect fair compensation for it.

That you don't understand that their taxes are part of that calculation based on your political positions (we usually agree) and experience (running a business) is frankly inexplicable to me.

What you are saying if you think about it is that if you have two employees, A and B, and A is worth 1 1/2 times B, and government taxes away the difference, that they will take home the same pay after taxes. Bull. "A" will take home 1.5 times the value AFTER taxes, and you will pay A for that, or A will quit and find someone who will. And they will find someone who will pay that.

To keep them, you will pay their taxes, and you will bake those taxes into the prices you charge your customers, you aren't taking it out of your pocket

 

[Wilbur Right]

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

You an island hey dude?

Does the military protect you and your business property and home and way of life? Sure it does.

Your taxes only pay for the military protection you receive.

Feel better now? Btw, you are seriously underpaying for the finest military in the world. Cheap ass.

 

[kaz]

So income taxes aren't part what employers have to pay employees? The money doesn't come from their employer's customers? How does that work? Where does it come from then? It just appears in paychecks from nowhere?

I prefer no prebate as well, but you have "an issue" with the Fair Tax and reject it, but you want to keep the Gestapo IRS and reporting to the government every dollar you earn from every source as if it's any of their f'ing business? Since your standard is "an issue," that isn't "an issue" for you?

What about that the Fair Tax makes people who work in cash industries and don't pay income taxes now at all taxpayers sharing the load?

What about that the Fair Tax removes the incentive to move employees offshore and automate to avoid all the employee taxes (Social Security, Medicare, employee income taxes, unemployment, ...)

What about that the Fair Tax levels the playing field between US and foreign corporations who don't have to pay corporate taxes now?

And again, why should US companies be punished with MORE taxes for onshore jobs? Isn't that just butt stupid?

You need to learn about payroll and how it works

If I pay an employee 2000 bi weekly his net pay is 1439
I withhold federal taxes of 316
FICA taxes of 149
State taxes of 91 ( varies by state obviously)

None of those are paid by me the employer all I do as the employer is send that money withheld to the state and federal treasuries

The only expense I pay is the matching contributions for FICA but that is calculated into my payroll costs

I'm being realistic in saying that we won't be able to abolish the income tax so if that is the case then we should put our efforts into making it a flat tax from dollar one

A flat tax would allow us to gut the IRS almost completely

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

One other point on this:

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

 

[Wilbur Right]

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Really? What if your customer base decides not to do further business with you BECAUSE of your price increase.

Supply and demand will effect prices faster than tax increases. No matter how much you hate paying taxes.


Maybe you should take a refresher business course? Learn something new.

 

[rightwinger]

Now Democrats advocating high taxes and evading (Buffett, Gates) and cheating on them (Daschle, Rangle), that's OK ...

Dem want to raise taxes ONLY on those making over $250k, dumbass dupe. For DECADES. Bought off GOP pandering to the megarich and giant corpshave ruined the nonrich and the country.

Assuming you're "nonrich", what exactly ruined you? And how is it anyone's fault?

Class warfare

Class warfare the greedy rich a-hole GOP has been winning for 30 years, dupe.

Can you explain the process? How are the greedy rich a-hole GOP taking the property of the "nonrich"?

Do they swoop in and steal their money? Of course not
They are too smart for that. The worker creates the wealth. The wealthy decide how it gets distributed

 

[rightwinger]

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Really? What if your customer base decides not to do further business with you BECAUSE of your price increase.

Supply and demand will effect prices faster than tax increases. No matter how much you hate paying taxes.


Maybe you should take a refresher business course? Learn something new.

What if your prices increase because of an increase in the cost of supplies, rent, taxes ?
What does your customer base do then?

 

[kaz]

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Really? What if your customer base decides not to do further business with you BECAUSE of your price increase.

Supply and demand will effect prices faster than tax increases. No matter how much you hate paying taxes.


Maybe you should take a refresher business course? Learn something new.

Actually, this is my field, both economics and management. MBA Michigan in corporate strategy and finance (finance is a branch of economics). Career in Management and Management Consulting, have owned three businesses, still own the third. I also still do management consulting.

And here's what's wrong with your argument. Other companies are paying the taxes of their employees too. It's not a competitive advantage to not do so, it's just giving away money. One thing we don't do in management, Holmes, is give away money. That's why the "market" rates incorporate taxes. Think about the term "market" ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

You an island hey dude?

Does the military protect you and your business property and home and way of life? Sure it does.

Your taxes only pay for the military protection you receive.

Feel better now? Btw, you are seriously underpaying for the finest military in the world. Cheap ass.

The military does not protect my personal property nor yours for that matter
The current wars going on and every war since WWII for that matter have not been declared wars and are therefore unjust they have been nothing but political games paid for in the blood of good men like my father who was killed for absolutely nothing in the skies over Vietnam and just like the men and women in the Middle East who are getting maimed and killed for nothing today

 

[Skull Pilot]

You need to learn about payroll and how it works

If I pay an employee 2000 bi weekly his net pay is 1439
I withhold federal taxes of 316
FICA taxes of 149
State taxes of 91 ( varies by state obviously)

None of those are paid by me the employer all I do as the employer is send that money withheld to the state and federal treasuries

The only expense I pay is the matching contributions for FICA but that is calculated into my payroll costs

I'm being realistic in saying that we won't be able to abolish the income tax so if that is the case then we should put our efforts into making it a flat tax from dollar one

A flat tax would allow us to gut the IRS almost completely

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

One other point on this:

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Neither of which has anything to do with the salaries I pay my employees

If my expenses go up I charge more for my services yes but what does that have to do with the income taxes of my employees?

 

[kaz]

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

You an island hey dude?

Does the military protect you and your business property and home and way of life? Sure it does.

Your taxes only pay for the military protection you receive.

Feel better now? Btw, you are seriously underpaying for the finest military in the world. Cheap ass.

The military does not protect my personal property nor yours for that matter
The current wars going on and every war since WWII for that matter have not been declared wars and are therefore unjust they have been nothing but political games paid for in the blood of good men like my father who was killed for absolutely nothing in the skies over Vietnam and just like the men and women in the Middle East who are getting maimed and killed for nothing today

If you said "the wars being conducted by the military since WWII don't protect my personal property" then that would be reasonable. And other than the cold war wars I'd agree with you. The domino "theory" is clearly true. But Iraq? Nation building in Afghanistan? Clearly they don't.

But to say the "military does not protect my personal property" is categorically ridiculous, the defense part of our military clearly does.

Sounds though we would both like to slash the military, but I would leave it formidable, just for defensive capabilities not invading other countries and controlling formidable

 

[kaz]

OK, so when you take a job, you dont' factor taxes into what you need to be paid to live, that's what you think?

Riddle me this batman. If your employer doesn't include the cost of your taxes in the prices of their products, how would they pay you enough to live AFTER taxes?

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

One other point on this:

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Neither of which has anything to do with the salaries I pay my employees

If my expenses go up I charge more for my services yes but what does that have to do with the income taxes of my employees?

Read it again

 

[Skull Pilot]

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

You an island hey dude?

Does the military protect you and your business property and home and way of life? Sure it does.

Your taxes only pay for the military protection you receive.

Feel better now? Btw, you are seriously underpaying for the finest military in the world. Cheap ass.

The military does not protect my personal property nor yours for that matter
The current wars going on and every war since WWII for that matter have not been declared wars and are therefore unjust they have been nothing but political games paid for in the blood of good men like my father who was killed for absolutely nothing in the skies over Vietnam and just like the men and women in the Middle East who are getting maimed and killed for nothing today

If you said "the wars being conducted by the military since WWII don't protect my personal property" then that would be reasonable. And other than the cold war wars I'd agree with you. The domino "theory" is clearly true. But Iraq? Nation building in Afghanistan? Clearly they don't.

But to say the "military does not protect my personal property" is categorically ridiculous, the defense part of our military clearly does.

Sounds though we would both like to slash the military, but I would leave it formidable, just for defensive capabilities not invading other countries and controlling formidable

So if I get robbed I call in the Army, Navy and Air Force?

No I don't I call the local or state cops

 

[Skull Pilot]

You're not getting it

My employee's income taxes do not cost me anything they are taken from each employee's gross pay and sent directly into the state and federal governments.

Like I said you need to learn how payroll and tax withholding works.

Seriously, you don't get you have to pay your employee's enough to pay their taxes and live after taxes? That's part of the calculation that drives salaries? You actually think salaries are random, not driven by a market and that market is driven by the employee's relatives skills ... after tax? And you're a business owner?

If the income tax was abolished tomorrow I would not pay my employees less.

Salaries are not calculated on how much tax the employee will pay they are calculated on the market value of the labor being supplied.
For example I pay my people in the upper third or the range of salaries for their positions. I do that because it brings in higher caliber people and they tend to stay.

The salary I pay is not never has been and never will be based on the income taxes employees pay

One other point on this:

Government raises the taxes on your business, you

1) Eat it

2) Raise prices to pay for it.

Obviously you do 2. Your employees are not that smart? I bet they are ...

Neither of which has anything to do with the salaries I pay my employees

If my expenses go up I charge more for my services yes but what does that have to do with the income taxes of my employees?

Read it again

Don't have to since you clearly do not understand payroll and how tax withholding work

 

[kaz]

And if I don't use what the government provides why on earth should I pay for it?

You an island hey dude?

Does the military protect you and your business property and home and way of life? Sure it does.

Your taxes only pay for the military protection you receive.

Feel better now? Btw, you are seriously underpaying for the finest military in the world. Cheap ass.

The military does not protect my personal property nor yours for that matter
The current wars going on and every war since WWII for that matter have not been declared wars and are therefore unjust they have been nothing but political games paid for in the blood of good men like my father who was killed for absolutely nothing in the skies over Vietnam and just like the men and women in the Middle East who are getting maimed and killed for nothing today

If you said "the wars being conducted by the military since WWII don't protect my personal property" then that would be reasonable. And other than the cold war wars I'd agree with you. The domino "theory" is clearly true. But Iraq? Nation building in Afghanistan? Clearly they don't.

But to say the "military does not protect my personal property" is categorically ridiculous, the defense part of our military clearly does.

Sounds though we would both like to slash the military, but I would leave it formidable, just for defensive capabilities not invading other countries and controlling formidable

So if I get robbed I call in the Army, Navy and Air Force?

No I don't I call the local or state cops

They protect us from foreign invasions. So seriously, you don't think if we did away with the military, any one would invade us or attack us?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Very clever, hater dupe. Keep voting for the lying, thieving, a-hole billionaire, racist party, stupid.

I don't vote for the democrats, franco hater dupe bot.