What policies should be implemented to address racism in the country?

[Curried Goats]

Slavery as a result of conquest and defeating armies was no less horiffic.

In a moral sense? Agreed. Chattel slavery however enslaved generation after generation after generation as it kept Africans as human Chattel, hence the name and the distinction.

See how well the slaves fare in China, or how well they fared in Russian, Japanese, and German "Work Camps" during WWII.

We can see, we have the hindsight of history. None of those instances came close to the centuries long enslavement of black people.

In Africa where Chattel Slavery began it began with defeated enemies being sold into bondage to other Africans, Egyptians, Asians and Europeans.

Your argument is specious and uninformed at best.

What is my argument? Do you even remember? It was that slavers are pieces of shit and shouldn't be venerated. I don't know why you think listing all the other instances of slavery is some counter to that but I figured if I let you ramble long enough you'd eventually come to some sort of point.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

In a moral sense? Agreed. Chattel slavery however enslaved generation after generation after generation as it kept Africans as human Chattel, hence the name and the distinction.

We can see, we have the hindsight of history. None of those instances came close to the centuries long enslavement of black people.

What is my argument? Do you even remember? It was that slavers are pieces of shit and shouldn't be venerated. I don't know why you think listing all the other instances of slavery is some counter to that but I figured if I let you ramble long enough you'd eventually come to some sort of point.

Chattel Slavery in Egypt was generational as well and lasted from one dynasty through the next.

In the other countries mentioned it was rarely generational because most of the slaves were killed off as they were worked to death and abused before they could procreate.

In the US it only existed for 80 years, from 1787-1867.

You seem to not know much about the history of this country much less the world.

 

[Curried Goats]

Chattel Slavery in Egypt was generational as well and lasted from one dynasty through the next.

It did. But Egyptians then didn't have the capability of expanding it much beyond their borders. European slavery was a lot more successful and its economic advantage allowed them to spread it all over the world and take new ones.

In the other countries mentioned it was rarely generational because most of the slaves were killed off as they were worked to death and abused before they could procreate.

In the US it only existed for 80 years, from 1787-1867.

In the country that became the US but if your point was that sound you wouldn't need that rhetorical trick. The European colonists who eventually became Americans brought African slaves to this land first in 1619.

You seem to not know much about the history of this country much less the world.

More like you're trying to use the history of the world to excuse European and American chattel slavery.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It did. But Egyptians then didn't have the capability of expanding it much beyond their borders. European slavery was a lot more successful and its economic advantage allowed them to spread it all over the world and take new ones.

In the country that became the US but if your point was that sound you wouldn't need that rhetorical trick. The European colonists who eventually became Americans brought African slaves to this land first in 1619.

More like you're trying to use the history of the world to excuse European and American chattel slavery.

Everything I stated is correct.

Chattel slavery existed globally for thousands of years before the US was even an idea, even in our own hemisphere before the first Europeans set foot here.

The US is not responsible for anything prior to it's creation, it only took us three generations after the founding for people to realize slavery and liberty were incompatible in a country such as ours.

More importantly, those of us living today are not responsible for the sins of the past. There's not a living slave or slave owner in the US and hasn't' been for some time and the US after freeing our own slaves has spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives helping keep the rest of the civilized world free.

The US has nothing to apologize for and we've more than paid our penance.

 

[Batcat]

Cracker isn't a racist term. Cracker simply denotes a white person who is racist. Even Sowell says that modern blacks learned their behavior from the Scot Irish crackers of the south.

There is also the term “Florida Cracker.”

Florida cracker - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

***snip***

Cracker cowmen​

In Florida, those who own or work cattle traditionally have been called cowmen. In the late 1800s, they were often called cow hunters or cowhunters, a reference to seeking out cattle scattered over the wooded rangelands during roundups. At times, the terms cowman and cracker have been used interchangeably because of similarities in their folk culture. Today, the western term cowboy is often used for those who work cattle.[5]

The Florida "cowhunter" or "cracker cowboy" of the 19th and early 20th centuries was distinct from the Spanish vaquero and the Western cowboy. Florida cowboys did not use lassos to herd or capture cattle. Their primary tools were dogs and cow whips. Florida cattle and horses were smaller than the western breeds. The Florida Cracker cattle, also known as the "native" or "scrub" cow, averaged about 600 pounds (270 kg) and had large horns and large feet.[6]…emphasis added

Modern usage​

Among some Floridians, the term is used as a proud or jocular self-description. Since the huge influx of new residents into Florida in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, from the northern parts of the United States and from Mexico and Latin America, the term Florida cracker is used informally by some Floridians to indicate that their families have lived in the state for many generations. It is considered a source of pride to be descended from "frontier people who did not just live but flourished in a time before air conditioning, mosquito repellent, and screens" according to Florida history writer Dana Ste. Claire.[7]

I have known two men I would classify as real Florida Crackers. One was my son in law and one a co-worker. Both had herded cattle on horseback using a whip and both were born in Florida.

 

[Curried Goats]

Everything I stated is correct.

Chattel slavery existed globally for thousands of years before the US was even an idea, even in our own hemisphere before the first Europeans set foot here.

Who's arguing with you otherwise? My argument was that European chattel slavery was more successful and thus more devastating.

The US is not responsible for anything prior to it's creation, it only took us three generations after the founding for people to realize slavery and liberty were incompatible in a country such as ours.

White people of European ancestry then. That covers them before and after they became Americans.

More importantly, those of us living today are not responsible for the sins of the past.

Are we talking about people or America? You keep switching perspectives. As you admitted above America is responsible for America's actions, which includes slavery.

There's not a living slave or slave owner in the US and hasn't' been for some time and the US after freeing our own slaves has spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives helping keep the rest of the civilized world free.

No we haven't. We send hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid every year to Israel who keeps Palestinians as second class citizens.

The US has nothing to apologize for and we've more than paid our penance.

I'm not asking for your apology I'm asking you whether you think slavers are deplorable and whether or not you think they should be venerated.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Who's arguing with you otherwise? My argument was that European chattel slavery was more successful and thus more devastating.

An argument based on your own emotions rather than anything that can be proven with fact.

The other forms of slavery existed for centuries before ECS was even conceived of.

It was practiced by Romans across Europe and Asia for more than a thousand years before ECS was even a thought.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

White people of European ancestry then. That covers them before and after they became Americans.

We are not responsible for their sins, or do we share any guilt.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Are we talking about people or America? You keep switching perspectives. As you admitted above America is responsible for America's actions, which includes slavery.

Both, the last slave in the US died long ago as did the last slave owner.

We bear no collective guilt or responsibility for the actions of our ancestors.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

No we haven't. We send hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid every year to Israel who keeps Palestinians as second class citizens.

An entire nation was created for Palestinian Arabs, it's called Jordan.

The Palestinians in Israel elected terrorists to form and run their "government" with the stipulation in their founding documents that the Jews be eradicated, either killed or driven from Israel, their natural, ancestral, and modern home.

They do not even recognize the right of Israel to exist.

More than a million other Israeli Arabs choose to live in Peace with their Jewish Neighbors so their burden is of their own making.

If a US state sent hundreds or thousands of missiles and mortar rounds into a neighboring state they'd be eradicated or at least would be crushed until they no longer had the means and will to fight.

If the Palestinians in Israel lay down their arms tomorrow there will be peace.

If the Jews of Israel lay down their arms tomorrow, there will be no more Jews in Palestine and no more Israel.

It's up to the Palestinians in Israel to reconcile all of that before they have any room to complain about being "second class" citizens or anything else.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

I'm not asking for your apology I'm asking you whether you think slavers are deplorable and whether or not you think they should be venerated.

I don't' judge people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago by the standards we live by today.

What was, "moral and acceptable" in their lifetimes was in many ways completely antithetical to what we believe today.

If you're going to judge people fairly, it must be in the context of the times and where they lived at the time.

 

[Curried Goats]

An argument based on your own emotions rather than anything that can be proven with fact.

You don't think it can be proven with facts that European and American slavery spread farther and wider than Egyptian slavery? Are you ignorant of geography as well?

The other forms of slavery existed for centuries before ECS was even conceived of.

It was practiced by Romans across Europe and Asia for more than a thousand years before ECS was even a thought.

Someone arguing the age of slavery with you?

 

[Curried Goats]

I don't' judge people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago by the standards we live by today.

What was, "moral and acceptable" in their lifetimes was in many ways completely antithetical to what we believe today.

If you're going to judge people fairly, it must be in the context of the times and where they lived at the time.

Which finally brings us back to my actual argument. Time doesn't have standards. That's a silly defense.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

You don't think it can be proven with facts that European and American slavery spread farther and wider than Egyptian slavery? Are you ignorant of geography as well?

What I know is you cannot prove that it produced more slaves compared to the slavery that existed for thousands of years prior.

The European Trading of African slaves only lasted about 300 years at full tilt and waned substantially before finally being eliminated in the late 19th century.

Slavery existed world wide for thousands of years prior.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Which finally brings us back to my actual argument. Time doesn't have standards. That's a silly defense.

Standards constantly change through time.

You keep making ridiculously unsupportable arguments.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

You don't think it can be proven with facts that European and American slavery spread farther and wider than Egyptian slavery? Are you ignorant of geography as well?

Slavery existed throughout history for millennia Across every continent other than Australia.

Even the native tribes of North America practiced slavery as did the better known cultures of central and south America.

It was also practice all over Africa for thousands of years before the first Europeans set foot on the continent.

The history of slavery is simply a big part of human history going back thousands of years before the Transatlantic Slave trade began and it was begun by Africans trading slaves to the first Europeans visiting Africa in the 1400's.

 

[Curried Goats]

Standards constantly change through time.

You keep making ridiculously unsupportable arguments.

No, standards aren't a property of time, they are a property of people and so they change depending on the person. Today we have wildly different standards depending on who you ask. Take our debate on abortion. Which one of us represent the standard of our time?

 

[Curried Goats]

Slavery existed throughout history for millennia Across every continent other than Australia.

Even the native tribes of North America practiced slavery as did the better known cultures of central and south America.

It was also practice all over Africa for thousands of years before the first Europeans set foot on the continent.

The history of slavery is simply a big part of human history going back thousands of years before the Transatlantic Slave trade began and it was begun by Africans trading slaves to the first Europeans visiting Africa in the 1400's.

That isn't an answer to my question. Did European and American slavery spread farther than Egyptian slavery? Yes or no?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

That isn't an answer to my question. Did European and American slavery spread farther than Egyptian slavery? Yes or no?

Egyptian slavery was only one of many examples I've given of slavery that already existed on every continent other than Australia.

That being the case the only real argument you have is that Europeans introduced slavery to Australia.

 

[Curried Goats]

Egyptian slavery was only one of many examples I've given of slavery that already existed on every continent other than Australia.

That being the case the only real argument you have is that Europeans introduced slavery to Australia.

And that standards aren't a property of time. Still trying to figure out how you're going to square that hilarious argument?