What should the highest income tax rate be?

[NYcarbineer]

Again, you imbecile, there should NEVER have been a time where it was allowed to become unequal... you don't want to reduce the % for the 'rich', just have everyone pay their rate without deduction, exception, exemption, etc... and see how the big government spending programs start to have more opposition when people actually have to pay for them instead of having others pay for them

When you have equality in treatment and you have everyone with a stake in the game, government loses pandering power and comes under more scrutiny.. which is a GOOD thing.. hell, it is a GREAT thing

Flat rates aren't 'equal'. At 10% a person making 40,000 pays $4000 in tax. A person making 400,000 pays $40,000. Ten times the tax the first person pays. How is that equal?

Are you seriously this much of an idiot?? (well, we know you are, but the question had to be asked for emphasis)

A flat tax is an equal rate on every dollar earned... just like a sales tax...

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

 

[Samson]

Flat rates aren't 'equal'. At 10% a person making 40,000 pays $4000 in tax. A person making 400,000 pays $40,000. Ten times the tax the first person pays. How is that equal?

Are you seriously this much of an idiot?? (well, we know you are, but the question had to be asked for emphasis)

A flat tax is an equal rate on every dollar earned... just like a sales tax...

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

Why would a millionaire buy a hammer?

If I had a Million$ I'd hire some illegal alien to do all my hammering for me.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Flat tax means flat rate, not a flat payment amount.

It's an alternative to our ridiculous progressive system, which is a combination of increasing tax rates offset by deductions. You eliminate the deductions and the increasing rates and it's a far simpler calculation.

Though it's not as simple as the flat taxers say because it only flattens income rates, it doesn't eliminate all the other taxes and you still have to figure out your investment taxes.

Well people go on and on about how fair the flat tax is supposed to be. Paying ten times more for your government than someone else pays for their government isn't 'fair', if 'fair' were the real issue.

You can simplify the tax code without flattening it. The calculation on how much you owe is just as easy with progressive rates as it is with a flat rate; the tax tables are based on the progressive rates,

all you have to do is look up your tax.

Fair is SUBJECTIVE.. for the BILLIONTH time.. it is not about FAIR.. it is about equality in application and treatment

Progressive tax system, by definition, is about unequal treatment by government under law

It's not unequal. Under progressive tax rates (I'm talking about the rates themselves)

the millionaire pays the same tax rate on the first 20,000 as does the person who only earns 20,000, all else being equal,

and if the guy making 20,000 ever makes over 250,000, he will pay the same rate on that income over 250,000 as does the millionaire now.

That is absolute equal treatment.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you seriously this much of an idiot?? (well, we know you are, but the question had to be asked for emphasis)

A flat tax is an equal rate on every dollar earned... just like a sales tax...

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

Why would a millionaire buy a hammer?

If I had a Million$ I'd hire some illegal alien to do all my hammering for me.

If you went to buy a hammer the guy at Home Depot would ask you what's wrong with one on your shoulders.

 

[DiamondDave]

Flat rates aren't 'equal'. At 10% a person making 40,000 pays $4000 in tax. A person making 400,000 pays $40,000. Ten times the tax the first person pays. How is that equal?

Are you seriously this much of an idiot?? (well, we know you are, but the question had to be asked for emphasis)

A flat tax is an equal rate on every dollar earned... just like a sales tax...

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

Yes it is.. it is EQUAL in application regardless of income, race, creed, situation, background, etc...

You sir, are an idiot... and you simply wish a punishment system based on progressive rates so that those you are jealous of, envious of, and upset about their earning more pay more of a % of their income for services than you do.. so that you can sap off of them even more...

NOBODY should have a zero or even negative effective rate (like the negative effective rate we have now for the lowest quintile)... everyone should have the same stake in the game for every dollar earned, PERIOD... well, at least if you actually believe in the equality in treatment by government

 

[BreezeWood]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I support not initiating any new spending that is not paid for with new taxes, and not initiating any new tax cuts that are not paid for with reduced spending,

and letting us grow out of the deficit.

My fantasy is shared by a group of people who wrote a document 215 years ago detailing how their fantasy should work.

What's truly a fantasy though is your idea that you can at the same time endlessly keep your foot on the floor of increased government spending while at the same time taking the gas from the engine that feeds the economy by taking it from the evil rich and the evil corporations who drive productivity and provide jobs.

Actually for what you are doing fantasy isn't the word. The word is delusion. And no matter how bad the economy gets, you don't even start to question why what you are doing doesn't ever lead to what you say will happen.

It's unwise to want to pay as we go for government?

 

[DiamondDave]

Well people go on and on about how fair the flat tax is supposed to be. Paying ten times more for your government than someone else pays for their government isn't 'fair', if 'fair' were the real issue.

You can simplify the tax code without flattening it. The calculation on how much you owe is just as easy with progressive rates as it is with a flat rate; the tax tables are based on the progressive rates,

all you have to do is look up your tax.

Fair is SUBJECTIVE.. for the BILLIONTH time.. it is not about FAIR.. it is about equality in application and treatment

Progressive tax system, by definition, is about unequal treatment by government under law

It's not unequal. Under progressive tax rates (I'm talking about the rates themselves)

the millionaire pays the same tax rate on the first 20,000 as does the person who only earns 20,000, all else being equal,

and if the guy making 20,000 ever makes over 250,000, he will pay the same rate on that income over 250,000 as does the millionaire now.

That is absolute equal treatment.

You are treating the dollars like they are different.. they are not different... whether it be your dollar # 3 of 10K or my dollar 663902 of 1MIL.. the dollar is still the same.. but under your bullshit system they are treated differently because of some bullshit subjective view of what it MEANS to you

And no.. your FUTURE assumption that IF someone will make 250K in the future is ridiculous.. you only pay tax on this current year.. you do not pay it on prognostication of what you will or will not earn in the future... there is no law locking in some future rate and locking in some guarantee that you will then earn it...

A dollar is a dollar..w whether I throw it away as disposable income on a stripper's garter or you use it to have a meal for the first time in a week

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you seriously this much of an idiot?? (well, we know you are, but the question had to be asked for emphasis)

A flat tax is an equal rate on every dollar earned... just like a sales tax...

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

Yes it is.. it is EQUAL in application regardless of income, race, creed, situation, background, etc...

You sir, are an idiot... and you simply wish a punishment system based on progressive rates so that those you are jealous of, envious of, and upset about their earning more pay more of a % of their income for services than you do.. so that you can sap off of them even more...

NOBODY should have a zero or even negative effective rate (like the negative effective rate we have now for the lowest quintile)... everyone should have the same stake in the game for every dollar earned, PERIOD... well, at least if you actually believe in the equality in treatment by government

Progressive rates tax everyone exactly the same, bracket by bracket. If you don't earn taxable income in a bracket, you don't get taxed on it. If you earn money in any bracket,

you paid exactly the same as anyone else earning money in that bracket.

 

[DiamondDave]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

 

[DiamondDave]

No it's not. If I buy a $10 hammer where the sales tax is 10%, I pay a dollar in tax. A millionaire comes in and buys that hammer, he pays a dollar in tax.

That is in no way the same as taxing a percentage of my earnings and the millionaire's earnings.

Yes it is.. it is EQUAL in application regardless of income, race, creed, situation, background, etc...

You sir, are an idiot... and you simply wish a punishment system based on progressive rates so that those you are jealous of, envious of, and upset about their earning more pay more of a % of their income for services than you do.. so that you can sap off of them even more...

NOBODY should have a zero or even negative effective rate (like the negative effective rate we have now for the lowest quintile)... everyone should have the same stake in the game for every dollar earned, PERIOD... well, at least if you actually believe in the equality in treatment by government

Progressive rates tax everyone exactly the same, bracket by bracket. If you don't earn taxable income in a bracket, you don't get taxed on it. If you earn money in any bracket,

you paid exactly the same as anyone else earning money in that bracket.

By definition they are NOT the same.. just as deductions based on subjective criteria are not the same.. hence why I am against them as well... You are again treating dollars earned by individuals differently based on subjective criteria of what you consider 'necessary' or whatever other FEELING word you wish to use...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Fair is SUBJECTIVE.. for the BILLIONTH time.. it is not about FAIR.. it is about equality in application and treatment

Progressive tax system, by definition, is about unequal treatment by government under law

It's not unequal. Under progressive tax rates (I'm talking about the rates themselves)

the millionaire pays the same tax rate on the first 20,000 as does the person who only earns 20,000, all else being equal,

and if the guy making 20,000 ever makes over 250,000, he will pay the same rate on that income over 250,000 as does the millionaire now.

That is absolute equal treatment.

You are treating the dollars like they are different.. they are not different... whether it be your dollar # 3 of 10K or my dollar 663902 of 1MIL.. the dollar is still the same.. but under your bullshit system they are treated differently because of some bullshit subjective view of what it MEANS to you

And no.. your FUTURE assumption that IF someone will make 250K in the future is ridiculous.. you only pay tax on this current year.. you do not pay it on prognostication of what you will or will not earn in the future... there is no law locking in some future rate and locking in some guarantee that you will then earn it...

A dollar is a dollar..w whether I throw it away as disposable income on a stripper's garter or you use it to have a meal for the first time in a week

That's your opinion, but your opinion doesn't change the fact that the progressive rate system of taxation is fair and applies equally to everyone.

Your 'logic' here is such that you would consider the sales tax unfair, because people who don't buy something you buy don't have to pay a tax that you have to pay.

You're saying that it's unfair a person making 20,000 a year doesn't pay the same rate on his earnings that the person making over 250,000 pays on that top bracket money.

You could as easily say that it's unfair that a person who doesn't buy a new car this year doesn't have to pay the sales tax that the person who buys one pays.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes it is.. it is EQUAL in application regardless of income, race, creed, situation, background, etc...

You sir, are an idiot... and you simply wish a punishment system based on progressive rates so that those you are jealous of, envious of, and upset about their earning more pay more of a % of their income for services than you do.. so that you can sap off of them even more...

NOBODY should have a zero or even negative effective rate (like the negative effective rate we have now for the lowest quintile)... everyone should have the same stake in the game for every dollar earned, PERIOD... well, at least if you actually believe in the equality in treatment by government

Progressive rates tax everyone exactly the same, bracket by bracket. If you don't earn taxable income in a bracket, you don't get taxed on it. If you earn money in any bracket,

you paid exactly the same as anyone else earning money in that bracket.

By definition they are NOT the same.. just as deductions based on subjective criteria are not the same.. hence why I am against them as well... You are again treating dollars earned by individuals differently based on subjective criteria of what you consider 'necessary' or whatever other FEELING word you wish to use...

It's also subjective to apply a flat rate to taxable income. We're merely arguing over whose variety of subjectivity is going to be applied.

 

[NYcarbineer]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

You can't take the politicians out of tax policy unless, possibly, you amended the Constitution in a certain way,

but that's never going to happen.

 

[BreezeWood]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount

someone earning over 1 million is "giving someone else (a) different rate on whatever dollar amount" that someone else is earning at an arbitrarily lower rate of income - the same as a Tax.

 

[DiamondDave]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

You can't take the politicians out of tax policy unless, possibly, you amended the Constitution in a certain way,

but that's never going to happen.

But you reduce the opportunity for pandering based on the bullshit subjective criteria... now changes to the tax code that pander to you but not those you wish to vilify is nothing more than buying votes and buying power

And no.. the rate chosen can be chosen subjectively, but it is not applying DIFFERENCES subjectively for pandering purposes...

And I know.. next we hear about how much that first 20K or whatever other arbitrary number MEANS to people... but you fail to realize EVERYONE's situation is different.. causing the need for more and more subjective criteria... Person's A's 20K means more to them than person B's because person A needs to spend it on food, education, housing, transportation, and healthcare... But wait, person C spends on that stuff too, in the same % but YOU don't like it because they CHOOSE different food that you don't feel is essential and they CHOOSE to spend on a higher prices school and they spend MORE on healthcare because of a different condition... BUT WAIT! Person D feels that first 20K even differently because they don't have bills on housing anymore because their house is paid off. Even though they earn the same as person A... BUT WAIT! Person E has 6 kids not 2, gotta make it different for them.... BUT WAIT! Person F earns twice as much as person A, but lives in an area where cost of living is higher because it takes more to ship things in, gotta treat them differently.... BUT WAIT! Person G earned their income on interest on wealth and not wages but has no bills at all and has amassed a nestegg, spends nothing on groceries because they grow it all on their massive estate, and they have a family that is all doctors and they own a health clinic and they have no medical expenses. Guess you have to treat them differently too because that 20K income means less to them....

The subjective progressive and deduction system is the PROBLEM and is why we are in the mess we are in... it is based on differing treatment based on more and more criteria and more and more feeling and more and more arbitrary 'levels' or whatever else...

The flat tax, applied equally on every dollar earned by every citizen without exception, exemption, criteria, deduction, etc is indeed equality in treatment REGARDLESS of the subjective bullshit

 

[DiamondDave]

15% for incomes up to 1 million - 40% all income above 1 million.

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount

someone earning over 1 million is "giving someone else (a) different rate on whatever dollar amount" that someone else is earning at an arbitrarily lower rate of income - the same as a Tax.

What you earn is on you, your job, your contract, your contribution, etc.. that 'arbitrary' rate of income or compensation is not some government imposed or mandated thing for every citizen.. the tax rate is

 

[BreezeWood]

Yet another form of unequal treatment.. I am not a million dollar earner but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount.. every person taxed the same rate on every dollar... a system blind to subjective criteria helps prevent taxation pandering for votes by a power hungry and manipulative government

but I would still not favor a system giving someone else any different rate on whatever dollar amount

someone earning over 1 million is "giving someone else (a) different rate on whatever dollar amount" that someone else is earning at an arbitrarily lower rate of income - the same as a Tax.

What you earn is on you, your job, your contract, your contribution, etc..that 'arbitrary' rate of income or compensation is not some government imposed or mandated thing for every citizen.. the tax rate is

that 'arbitrary' rate of income or compensation is not some government imposed or mandated thing for every citizen..

it is mandated by the CEO - Board of Directors ...

for the likes of one Bill Gates - Steve Jobs -- oversees operations - there could be thousands of higher incomes that do not exist because of arbitrary standards of income inequity.

 

[kaz]

Flat rates aren't 'equal'. At 10% a person making 40,000 pays $4000 in tax. A person making 400,000 pays $40,000. Ten times the tax the first person pays. How is that equal?

Flat tax means flat rate, not a flat payment amount.

It's an alternative to our ridiculous progressive system, which is a combination of increasing tax rates offset by deductions. You eliminate the deductions and the increasing rates and it's a far simpler calculation.

Though it's not as simple as the flat taxers say because it only flattens income rates, it doesn't eliminate all the other taxes and you still have to figure out your investment taxes.

Well people go on and on about how fair the flat tax is supposed to be. Paying ten times more for your government than someone else pays for their government isn't 'fair', if 'fair' were the real issue.

You can simplify the tax code without flattening it. The calculation on how much you owe is just as easy with progressive rates as it is with a flat rate; the tax tables are based on the progressive rates,

all you have to do is look up your tax.

You thought the issue we have with progressive rates was calculating the tax?

Seriously?

 

[kaz]

Interest or investment income should be taxed the same as all other income.. again, equality in treatment, blind to situation, etc

Right, which means it should not be taxed by investors since that equal tax was already paid on it. Taxing it again would be doubling down by taxing already taxed income.