When Did Trump Make You A Keynesian?

[g5000]

I can tell you at least one thing about the future which will radically change the landscape. Literally.

Self-driving cars.

These will become the norm. By the time my kids are my age, a person who knows how to drive a car will be as rare as people today who know how to ride a horse.

You currently only use your car a couple hours a day, at most. It is idle 22 hours of the day. That is extremely inefficient.

In the future, you won't even own a car. You will subscribe to a car provider, and they will own a fleet of cars. You will choose the subscription options you want. Do you want to ride around alone or are you willing to share a ride? And so forth.

There will be a Google or Apple version of a car provider company. Watch for that company to arise, and then buy the shit out of that company's stock.

A self-driving car will take you to work, and then depart to take someone else to work. Maximum efficient use of cars will result.

Cars will be in use 23 out of 24 hours of each day. That means less cars will be needed. Work hours will be adjusted to maximize efficiency.

Less cars, less mechanics. So there's one job which will go away. In fact, mechanics will work for the companies that own the car provider.

No more taxis, no more taxi driver jobs. No more truck driver jobs.

Houses will no longer have driveways or garages! Therefore, a house will have a smaller footprint. Property sizes will shrink as a result.

So future Americans won't own a car. Instead, they will own stock in a car provider company.

 

[danielpalos]

yes, i do. we simply need an Institutional upward pressure on wages. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, does that.

And we need government to shoot all the cattle and burn all the grain, and force bakers to work a limited number of hours a week, and.....

You really don't understand economics if you are proposing an artificial fix. Your minimum wage proposal is like giving a cancer patient an aspirin or putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. That simply treats one very insignificant symptom of the real problem.

The moment you force a $15 per hour minimum, how many people would be automatically unemployed?

lol. I understand economics, way better than you. It is only "artificial" to the extent it is a simple cost of living adjustment. Arbitrary increases to federal wages, is also artificial.

Unemployment compensation or simply being unemployed, is a social safety net for that; and, higher paid labor, pays more in taxes and creates more in demand.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Here are the US deficits by year: Is the U.S. Budget Deficit Really That Bad?

FY 2009 $1.4 trillion
FY 2010 $1.3 trillion
FY 2011 $1.3 trillion
FY 2012 $1 trillion
FY 2013 $679 billion
FY 2014 $485 billion
FY 2015 $438 billion
FY 2016 $585 billion
FY 2017 $665 billion
FY 2018 $833 billion (est)
FY 2019 $984 billion (est)


As you can plainly see, during the Obama regime, deficits had a downward trend, and during the Trump regime they have an upward trend, with a lot of help by the Republican Congress. Just like deficits had an upward trend the last time a Republican President had a Republican Congress.


Also, Trump's tax "reform" will add $1.5 trillion dollars to our debt. The pseudocons crowed that this giant debt bill would stimulate the economy. It just doesn't get more Keynesian than that.

In fact, the pseudocons have out-Keynesed Keynes! Keynes didn't believe in deficit spending during an up economy. He actually believed we should pay our debt DOWN during an up economy.


So...when did Trump make you pseudocons into uber Keynesians?

Our debt was growing exponentially. The deficit is irrelevant since the govt should be doing without. This just tells me that the govt has a massive budget and needs to reduce it and do more with less. Our debt is what matters. Bush and O ran it up 16 trillion.

And there you have it. "Our debt is what matters."

If someone were to sum up my more than 75 thousand posts on this forum in five words, it would be, "Our debt is what matters."

Crowing about increased revenues is misdirection. Our federal spending is exploding faster than our revenues. This fact is deliberately kept from the tards by their propagandists.

Our debt is the single greatest threat to our security and our future. Not guns, not gays, not Muslims, not blacks on food stamps, not Mexicans, not abortion.

If we truly and honestly want to Make America Great Again, we absolutely must pay down our debt. Immediately.

What is so fucking maddening to me is that it would be incredibly simple and easy to do.

I don't agree with your conclusions. I see budgets as funding Cost-Deficits and Cost-Benefits. We need a Congress which funds the latter, and shit cans the former.

It's been a while since I read IKE's Farewell Address, I suspect most of those members of the USMB have no clue of its meaning, thus, for them and our country, see this:

Our Documents - Transcript of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's Farewell Address (1961)

From the link:

"Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small,there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research-these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we which to travel.

"But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs-balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage-balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between action of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration."

IMO IKE was prophetic, and saw the future in which we reside, the chaos of imbalance and frustration; it's time for all of us, Pols and citizens to listen to President Eisenhower from the grave.

 

[danielpalos]

People seem to think it is the kind of taxes we have which are the problem. It isn't. The problem is exemptions, credits, and deductions.

We could eliminate the federal income tax today, and replace it with a national sales tax, and the day after that both parties would be putting exemptions in the national sales tax code.

Democrats would be exempting milk, Republicans would be exempting yachts.

After $1.4 trillion of exemptions were put in the national sales tax, what would have to happen to make up the difference?

Exactly. We would have to raise the tax rate and borrow money.

Just. Like. We. Do. Now.

When you have a spending problem does it really matter?

It's like trying to legalize illegal aliens and not secure the border.

What we need it a control on spending, otherwise they will just spend the increased taxation.

only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy.

 

[Meathead]

I get that you're black and all that, but do you think you have a right to the property of others? You should get yourself tested too.

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

 

[g5000]

Here are the US deficits by year: Is the U.S. Budget Deficit Really That Bad?

FY 2009 $1.4 trillion
FY 2010 $1.3 trillion
FY 2011 $1.3 trillion
FY 2012 $1 trillion
FY 2013 $679 billion
FY 2014 $485 billion
FY 2015 $438 billion
FY 2016 $585 billion
FY 2017 $665 billion
FY 2018 $833 billion (est)
FY 2019 $984 billion (est)


As you can plainly see, during the Obama regime, deficits had a downward trend, and during the Trump regime they have an upward trend, with a lot of help by the Republican Congress. Just like deficits had an upward trend the last time a Republican President had a Republican Congress.


Also, Trump's tax "reform" will add $1.5 trillion dollars to our debt. The pseudocons crowed that this giant debt bill would stimulate the economy. It just doesn't get more Keynesian than that.

In fact, the pseudocons have out-Keynesed Keynes! Keynes didn't believe in deficit spending during an up economy. He actually believed we should pay our debt DOWN during an up economy.


So...when did Trump make you pseudocons into uber Keynesians?

Our debt was growing exponentially. The deficit is irrelevant since the govt should be doing without. This just tells me that the govt has a massive budget and needs to reduce it and do more with less. Our debt is what matters. Bush and O ran it up 16 trillion.

And there you have it. "Our debt is what matters."

If someone were to sum up my more than 75 thousand posts on this forum in five words, it would be, "Our debt is what matters."

Crowing about increased revenues is misdirection. Our federal spending is exploding faster than our revenues. This fact is deliberately kept from the tards by their propagandists.

Our debt is the single greatest threat to our security and our future. Not guns, not gays, not Muslims, not blacks on food stamps, not Mexicans, not abortion.

If we truly and honestly want to Make America Great Again, we absolutely must pay down our debt. Immediately.

What is so fucking maddening to me is that it would be incredibly simple and easy to do.

I don't agree with your conclusions. I see budgets as funding Cost-Deficits and Cost-Benefits. We need a Congress which funds the latter, and shit cans the former.

Actually, you will find you and I are in perfect agreement. See post 44 in this topic.

It's been a while since I read IKE's Farewell Address, I suspect most of those members of the USMB have no clue of its meaning, thus, for them and our country, see this:

Our Documents - Transcript of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's Farewell Address (1961)

From the link:

"Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small,there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research-these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we which to travel.

"But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs-balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage-balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between action of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration."

IMO IKE was prophetic, and saw the future in which we reside, the chaos of imbalance and frustration; it's time for all of us, Pols and citizens to listen to President Eisenhower from the grave.

There's a typo in that transcript.

Nevertheless, those particular paragraphs you quoted by Ike appear to be heavily influenced by Hayek's The Road To Serfdom. A book I have quoted many times on this forum.

 

[g5000]

I get that you're black and all that, but do you think you have a right to the property of others? You should get yourself tested too.

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

 

[Meathead]

I get that you're black and all that, but do you think you have a right to the property of others? You should get yourself tested too.

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

 

[g5000]

I get that you're black and all that, but do you think you have a right to the property of others? You should get yourself tested too.

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

The Republican Party ceased being the party of civil rights half a century ago. It has lost its way, bigly.

You can't even see how you prove that point by your denigration of blacks as only voting for free stuff.

Christ, the irony is rich!

 

[JBvM]

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

actually it was the Liberals in the GOP, who no longer exist

 

[Meathead]

I get that you're black and all that, but do you think you have a right to the property of others? You should get yourself tested too.

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

The Republican Party ceased being the party of civil rights half a century ago. It has lost its way, bigly.

You can't even see how you prove that point by your denigration of blacks as only voting for free stuff.

Christ, the irony is rich!

Blacks do only vote for free stuff. If they didn't they wouldn't vote 95% Dem. Perhaps stats are confusing for you.

 

[g5000]

What the fuck?

His race has exactly FUCKALL to do with this discussion!

Ask yourself why you brought it up.

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

The Republican Party ceased being the party of civil rights half a century ago. It has lost its way, bigly.

You can't even see how you prove that point by your denigration of blacks as only voting for free stuff.

Christ, the irony is rich!

Blacks do only vote for free stuff. If they didn't they wouldn't vote 95% Dem. Perhaps stats are confusing for you.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Thank you for the demonstration of circular logic, you dumb racist! You're a real hoot!

Oh, man. That was priceless.

 

[Meathead]

Where do you think free stuff comes from? And who do you think gets it? Oh yeah, and why do you think blacks vote 95% for the party of free stuff?

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

The Republican Party ceased being the party of civil rights half a century ago. It has lost its way, bigly.

You can't even see how you prove that point by your denigration of blacks as only voting for free stuff.

Christ, the irony is rich!

Blacks do only vote for free stuff. If they didn't they wouldn't vote 95% Dem. Perhaps stats are confusing for you.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Thank you for the demonstration of circular logic, you dumb racist! You're a real hoot!

I don't care if you're a black fag who's butthurt for reasons other than your sexual proclivities (Trump). Blacs vote for free stuff, ie: Democrats.

 

[JBvM]

Blacks do only vote for free stuff. If they didn't they wouldn't vote 95% Dem. Perhaps stats are confusing for you.

So that is what you believe Black people are voting for? Could not be voting against racists and dog whistles?

Who consistently tries to keep the black vote down?

Chairmen of the GOP have apologized for the GOP Southern Strategy

 

[JBvM]

I don't care if you're a black fag who's butthurt for reasons other than your sexual proclivities (Trump). Blacs vote for free stuff, ie: Democrats.

Trump promised healthcare for everyone. He said the government would pay if people could not

 

[g5000]

Blacks vote for the party of civil rights.

The Republican party has made it very clear how much it hates blacks. As have its arms of propaganda.

[cue doom music]

"Welcome to another edition of Blacks Behaving Badly!"

The party of civil rights has always been Republican. Blacks vote for the party of free stuff (and fags). You're useless.

The Republican Party ceased being the party of civil rights half a century ago. It has lost its way, bigly.

You can't even see how you prove that point by your denigration of blacks as only voting for free stuff.

Christ, the irony is rich!

Blacks do only vote for free stuff. If they didn't they wouldn't vote 95% Dem. Perhaps stats are confusing for you.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Thank you for the demonstration of circular logic, you dumb racist! You're a real hoot!

I don't care if you're a black fag who's butthurt for reasons other than your sexual proclivities (Trump). Blacs vote for free stuff, ie: Democrats.

Tell the next black Democrat you see that he votes for Democrats to get free stuff, and then explain to him how you are baffled that blacks think Republicans are racists.

My god, you are too stupid to grasp your own stupidity!

Dunning–Kruger effect

 

[g5000]

I don't care if you're a black fag who's butthurt for reasons other than your sexual proclivities (Trump). Blacs vote for free stuff, ie: Democrats.

Trump promised healthcare for everyone. He said the government would pay if people could not

Trump is a big believer in Universal Health Care. He has had nothing but praise for UHC, and even insisted in his book that America needs socialized medicine.

That's next.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We've all heard the pseudocon Rube Herd parrot the meme that "tax cuts increase revenues". They get this meme from their propagandists and then repeat it unthinkingly.

There are two key facts which expose the lie hidden in that meme. First, the obvious fact is that if you lower tax rates all the way to zero, you have zero revenues. So at some point, tax cuts fail to increase revenues.

The second fact is one which their propagandists deliberately keep from the rubes. This is a deliberate omission, and therefore a deliberately crafted lie. And that fact is that revenues have also increased after a tax INCREASE.

See for yourself. Here is a history of tax rates: https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal.pdf

Notice how tax rates increased under Bill Clinton in 1993. The top marginal rate increased from 31 percent to 39.6 percent, and stayed that way until 2001.

Now here is a history of federal revenues: Who Really Pays Uncle Sam's Bills?

Notice how tax revenues INCREASED after the tax rates went UP a whopping 8.6 points:


FY 1991 - $1.05 trillion.
FY 1992 - $1.09 trillion.
FY 1993 - $1.15 trillion.
FY 1994 - $1.26 trillion.
FY 1995 - $1.35 trillion.
FY 1996 - $1.45 trillion.
FY 1997 - $1.58 trillion.
FY 1998 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 1999 - $1.82 trillion.
FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion

Just a few years after Clinton's tax increase, federal revenues had DOUBLED!!!

And after the Bush tax cut expired on the top marginal rate in 2013, federal revenues continued to increase:

FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.

So, clearly, increasing or decreasing tax rates a few points here and there has almost nothing to do with revenues.

As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid."

By the way, job growth exploded during the higher tax Clinton years. 30 million jobs in 8 years, with less than 5 percent unemployment.

So the next time you are crowing about the current tax rate increasing revenues, you should know your propagandists are counting on you not looking beyond the carefully framed numbers they present to your dumb ass.


But it gets worse. Much worse. You are being even dumber than that.

Because while your pseudocon propagandists are crowing about revenues, they are counting on you not noticing that despite increased revenues, your party and your President are EXPLODING our deficits!

It's called misdirection. A classic magician's trick to fool the rubes.

Trump is on track to blow Obama's debt record wide open. And after whining and whining and whining and whining non-stop for eight years about Obama's spending, your propagandists have gone dark.

And so have you.

The stench of hypocrisy is all over you.

So, clearly, increasing or decreasing tax rates a few points here and there has almost nothing to do with revenues.

In that case, I vote for decreasing tax rates.

 

[JBvM]

I don't care if you're a black fag who's butthurt for reasons other than your sexual proclivities (Trump). Blacs vote for free stuff, ie: Democrats.

Trump promised healthcare for everyone. He said the government would pay if people could not

Trump is a big believer in Universal Health Care. He has had nothing but praise for UHC, and even insisted in his book that America needs socialized medicine.

That's next.

another broken promise. but hey he has the msm parroting him on he keeps his promises.

Just ask his wives about promises to his god and before a Judge and a Minister

 

[JBvM]

We've all heard the pseudocon Rube Herd parrot the meme that "tax cuts increase revenues". They get this meme from their propagandists and then repeat it unthinkingly.

There are two key facts which expose the lie hidden in that meme. First, the obvious fact is that if you lower tax rates all the way to zero, you have zero revenues. So at some point, tax cuts fail to increase revenues.

The second fact is one which their propagandists deliberately keep from the rubes. This is a deliberate omission, and therefore a deliberately crafted lie. And that fact is that revenues have also increased after a tax INCREASE.

See for yourself. Here is a history of tax rates: https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal.pdf

Notice how tax rates increased under Bill Clinton in 1993. The top marginal rate increased from 31 percent to 39.6 percent, and stayed that way until 2001.

Now here is a history of federal revenues: Who Really Pays Uncle Sam's Bills?

Notice how tax revenues INCREASED after the tax rates went UP a whopping 8.6 points:


FY 1991 - $1.05 trillion.
FY 1992 - $1.09 trillion.
FY 1993 - $1.15 trillion.
FY 1994 - $1.26 trillion.
FY 1995 - $1.35 trillion.
FY 1996 - $1.45 trillion.
FY 1997 - $1.58 trillion.
FY 1998 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 1999 - $1.82 trillion.
FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion

Just a few years after Clinton's tax increase, federal revenues had DOUBLED!!!

And after the Bush tax cut expired on the top marginal rate in 2013, federal revenues continued to increase:

FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.

So, clearly, increasing or decreasing tax rates a few points here and there has almost nothing to do with revenues.

As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid."

By the way, job growth exploded during the higher tax Clinton years. 30 million jobs in 8 years, with less than 5 percent unemployment.

So the next time you are crowing about the current tax rate increasing revenues, you should know your propagandists are counting on you not looking beyond the carefully framed numbers they present to your dumb ass.


But it gets worse. Much worse. You are being even dumber than that.

Because while your pseudocon propagandists are crowing about revenues, they are counting on you not noticing that despite increased revenues, your party and your President are EXPLODING our deficits!

It's called misdirection. A classic magician's trick to fool the rubes.

Trump is on track to blow Obama's debt record wide open. And after whining and whining and whining and whining non-stop for eight years about Obama's spending, your propagandists have gone dark.

And so have you.

The stench of hypocrisy is all over you.

So, clearly, increasing or decreasing tax rates a few points here and there has almost nothing to do with revenues.

In that case, I vote for decreasing tax rates.

twisted spin you have there