Which Party is the most Constitutional?

[Sallow]

Find it and link it dumbass. You won't be able to.

Find what?

The post is here.

You posted I "submarined" my credibility by posting that Obama is essentially basically like every other administration that proceeded him.

THEN you posted the same exact thing.

Seriously..are you drinking?

I must be. Can't imagine why I'd be responding to your inanities otherwise. Don't worry. I'll pass out soon.

Sorry?

What inanities.

I'm not the one changing stride in midstream here.

So unless you hold that every President has broken with the Constitution by doing something extremely radical, I am not sure what your point is..

 

[nodoginnafight]

anarchy is the only ethical and morally sound position whenit comes to societal governance. That should be completely decentralized to the individual. Any other system is doomed to inevitable failure.

I could not disagree more.

 

[kaz]

Liberals are defined by the ability to change, to accept new ideas, to be open minded and flexible. They are also defined by tolerance of differing viewpoints.

Conservatives are defined by inflexibility. By rote thinking. By an adherence to tradition and a complete intolerance of differing viewpoints.

Work with that.

Give me examples of liberals being willing to change, accept new ideas, be open minded and flexible, because that doesn't describe you at all.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I've traveled extensively and have yet to visit a foreign country that accepts US currency.

I'm no globe trotter, but they've always been real excited to get U.S. dollars when I've been abroad. Sometimes you can even strike up a better bargain than the official exchange rates.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"Constitutional" means absolutely nothing at this point, if it ever meant anything, as both parties, and those before, Federalists, Whigs, etc..., have done their utmost to subvert the plain text in the pursuit of more power, prestige, and money for themselves and their cronies.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner

 

[norwegen]

Liberals are defined by the ability to change, to accept new ideas, to be open minded and flexible. They are also defined by tolerance of differing viewpoints.

Conservatives are defined by inflexibility. By rote thinking. By an adherence to tradition and a complete intolerance of differing viewpoints.

Work with that.

Give me examples of liberals being willing to change, accept new ideas, be open minded and flexible, because that doesn't describe you at all.

Sallow is referring to government. Liberals want to change government. Conservatives don't. No one disputes that a society benefits from advancing and prospering.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Seriously, sit down and think about that for a second. The answer would seem obvious to you, I'd gauge. If you're a Republican, your party. If you're a Democrat, you'd probably say yours. Both of you would readily say that the other party doesn't care about the Constitution. What if I told you, that neither party cares? That neither of them respects the Constitution as it is written?

For nearly a century, the Constitutional rights of others have been stripped and restored, then stripped again, so on and so forth. Laws, laws and more laws have been passed, blurring the meaning and spirit of the Constitution. And these laws have been passed by both parties at one point in time or another. Here, I'll give you some examples, transgressions against the Constitution committed by both parties (drawn from memory):

1) Republican Abraham Lincoln, suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus for captured Confederate Soldiers during the Civil War.

2) Democrats enacted Jim Crow Laws in the South, until the enactment of the Civil Rights act of 1964.

3) Republicans were responsible for the Patriot Act.

4) Democrats were responsible for the Patriot Act's precursor, Project Echelon.

5) Republicans are responsible for the McCain-Feingold Act.

6) Democrat FDR censored the media and threw Japanese Americans into internment camps during WWII. He also used the IRS to attack Huey Long.

7) Admittedly, Republicans passing laws banning gay marriage would be unconstitutional. The 14th Amendment is quite clear about it. Every citizen deserves equal treatment under the law. America is a land of equality and opportunity not of exclusion and limitation. No matter how I as a Christian try to ignore it, it's there. Like it or not.

8) Democrats have perpetrated over some of the more egregious violations of the Constitution in the past 6 years, however. By forcing religious institutions to fund abortions or provide for them against their beliefs via the ACA's abortion mandate, passing the ACA itself, repeatedly changing and delaying a law passed by Congress, raiding the offices of the news media, using the IRS to attack Tea Party groups, using the NSA to spy on literally all of America and World Leaders, and killing American terrorist sympathizers without due process.

I'm sure there are many others to list, but seriously, neither party can say they respect the Constitution. It is easy enough to say that neither party is Constitutional in their behavior. I may catch hell for this, but hey, I didn't make this thread to please anyone. Simply, it was made to point out a painful reality.

In the poll, I want people to vote on who you believe follows the letter of the Constitution more closely, Democrats, Republicans, or neither.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for more than just Confederate soldiers during the Civil War. Northern newspaper editors were shutdown and imprisoned by the hundreds without trial for speaking out against Lincoln's administration; an arrest warrant was issued for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Roger B. Taney, for issuing an opinion that stated that only the Congress had the power, constitutionally, to suspend the writ of habeas corpus; and Congressman Clement Vallandigham was arrested and deported to the Confederacy for speaking out against Lincoln.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Democrat Party is less constitutional. American republicanism has a frame of reference: the natural law. Democrats have eliminated this foundation with initiatives and referendums, effectively expanding popular government, erroneously believing that a government of the people, for the people, and by the people is a democracy.

So the anti-tax referendums and the anti-gay referendum that Californians passed over the years were

contrary to natural law?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I am so glad conservatives weren't really in power back then.

This country would have never gotten off the ground.

You know conservatives wanted to block Jefferson from buying warships, as well, to fight off pirates? They thought paying tribute was cheaper.

And this current administration has done absolutely nothing that isn't in keeping with the law, precedence or the Constitution.

That last line utterly submarines any credibility your post might have claimed.

Well no..it actually doesn't.

You folks have made this administration into some sort of outlier. Something that's never happened before.

Yet the President has, painstakingly, gone through every procedure almost every President before him, has gone through.

Has been much more careful with the processes he uses to govern than Reagan or George W. Bush..who were MUCH more radical.

And yet..you folks keep repeating this like anyone outside your little sowing circle is going to believe it.

Every President simply builds off of the last one. Reagan and Bush never claimed the power to assassinate American citizens without due process, for example. However, this is simply built off of powers that they did claim to have. So no, they weren't more radical, necessarily, than the Obama administration, but they paved the way for the Obama administration's radical power grabbing with their own. Much like the next President, whether Democrat or Republican, will simply build off of what Obama is doing.

 

[Mojo2]

Seriously, sit down and think about that for a second. The answer would seem obvious to you, I'd gauge. If you're a Republican, your party. If you're a Democrat, you'd probably say yours. Both of you would readily say that the other party doesn't care about the Constitution. What if I told you, that neither party cares? That neither of them respects the Constitution as it is written?

For nearly a century, the Constitutional rights of others have been stripped and restored, then stripped again, so on and so forth. Laws, laws and more laws have been passed, blurring the meaning and spirit of the Constitution. And these laws have been passed by both parties at one point in time or another. Here, I'll give you some examples, transgressions against the Constitution committed by both parties (drawn from memory):

1) Republican Abraham Lincoln, suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus for captured Confederate Soldiers during the Civil War.

2) Democrats enacted Jim Crow Laws in the South, until the enactment of the Civil Rights act of 1964.

3) Republicans were responsible for the Patriot Act.

4) Democrats were responsible for the Patriot Act's precursor, Project Echelon.

5) Republicans are responsible for the McCain-Feingold Act.

6) Democrat FDR censored the media and threw Japanese Americans into internment camps during WWII. He also used the IRS to attack Huey Long.

7) Admittedly, Republicans passing laws banning gay marriage would be unconstitutional. The 14th Amendment is quite clear about it. Every citizen deserves equal treatment under the law. America is a land of equality and opportunity not of exclusion and limitation. No matter how I as a Christian try to ignore it, it's there. Like it or not.

8) Democrats have perpetrated over some of the more egregious violations of the Constitution in the past 6 years, however. By forcing religious institutions to fund abortions or provide for them against their beliefs via the ACA's abortion mandate, passing the ACA itself, repeatedly changing and delaying a law passed by Congress, raiding the offices of the news media, using the IRS to attack Tea Party groups, using the NSA to spy on literally all of America and World Leaders, and killing American terrorist sympathizers without due process.

I'm sure there are many others to list, but seriously, neither party can say they respect the Constitution. It is easy enough to say that neither party is Constitutional in their behavior. I may catch hell for this, but hey, I didn't make this thread to please anyone. Simply, it was made to point out a painful reality.

In the poll, I want people to vote on who you believe follows the letter of the Constitution more closely, Democrats, Republicans, or neither.

You'll come out of the Liberal closet some day.

 

[Contumacious]

Which Party is the most Constitutional?

LIBERTARIAN

The demopublicans support the welfare/warfare police state.

.

 

[kaz]

Liberals are defined by the ability to change, to accept new ideas, to be open minded and flexible. They are also defined by tolerance of differing viewpoints.

Conservatives are defined by inflexibility. By rote thinking. By an adherence to tradition and a complete intolerance of differing viewpoints.

Work with that.

Give me examples of liberals being willing to change, accept new ideas, be open minded and flexible, because that doesn't describe you at all.

Sallow is referring to government. Liberals want to change government. Conservatives don't. No one disputes that a society benefits from advancing and prospering.

That doesn't describe how liberals change government, they control and regulate, which limits and doesn't advance prosperity.

 

[peach174]

Neither adheres to the Constitution at all, they both use it as a sledge hammer when it serves their purpose and toilet paper when it doesn't.

.

You should have stopped while you were ahead.

But I will point out that presidents and governments started violating the Constitution almost as soon as the ink was dry. Jefferson had no authority for the Louisiana Purchase. He defended it as simply too good a deal to pass up. Jackson refused to enforce a Supreme Court decision. etc.
But those isolated examples pale in the face of the onslaught from the present administration, which has no regard for rule of law at all.

I am so glad conservatives weren't really in power back then.

This country would have never gotten off the ground.

You know conservatives wanted to block Jefferson from buying warships, as well, to fight off pirates? They thought paying tribute was cheaper.

And this current administration has done absolutely nothing that isn't in keeping with the law, precedence or the Constitution.

In todays terms;
President Jefferson was a conservative republican who believed in government by the people.
Hamilton was the liberal who did not trust the people and believed in a strong central government.
It was liberals who voted to pay off the Pirates for ransom rather than fight them.
Once again liberals wasted 1 million U.S. Dollars for a policy idea that did not work.
Same ideology as today negotiate, talk, pay money.

The President can not change the ACA law as written by executive order. It has to be done by congress.

 

[Contumacious]

The President can not change the ACA law as written by executive order. It has to be done by congress.

Bullshit.

The ACA is not the law.

The executive can refuse to enforce a law which they determine is UNconstitutional.

.

 

[regent]

The Constitution was an imperfect document when written and is still is an imperfect document. It has been amended formally 27 times and changed thousands of times with Court cases, politicial practices, and so on. As conditions continue to change so will our Constitutional practices, and on occassion, even the Contitution itself might be changed, but change it will. The real question is should the Constitution, or its practices, meet the needs of the nation today or the needs of the nation of 200 years ago? Like it or not the Constitutional practices will change as they have for the last 200 years.

 

[peach174]

The President can not change the ACA law as written by executive order. It has to be done by congress.

Bullshit.

The ACA is not the law.

The executive can refuse to enforce a law which they determine is UNconstitutional.

.

Lord I hope that you don't vote if you don't know this-
The ACA was not passed by congress and was not held up as Constitutional by the SCOUTS?
The executive branch is not the judicial branch which determines if a law is unconstitutional.
The executive;
The power of the Executive Branch is vested in the President of the United States, who also acts as head of state and Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. The President is responsible for implementing and enforcing the laws written by Congress

 

[ScienceRocks]

When the constitution was written was a very different world. boron's ruled and the little guy was fucked...

America has gone a long ways and I hope it doesn't return to those days.

 

[candycorn]

Another dumb poll.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Both are nuts...

I'll say that the moderates that want America to remain a first world country = right choice.

 

[hangover]

Which Party is the most Constitutional?

Independent

How well is that going?
Both Parties control the elections.
The majority of voters are independent, yet there is 0 independents in the House and 2 in the Senate.
So there goes the idea of we the people huh?

I voted for Ralph Nader four times. He only got 3% of the vote all four times. If he would have become POTUS, we wouldn't have a national debt today. We wouldn't have invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, and wasted $5 trillion on those wars. And the rich and corporate business wouldn't be getting government welfare.
This country gets the government they vote for. Looks like WE THE PEOPLE are pretty fucking dumb, huh.