Debate Now White Privilege and an Institution of Racism

[WelfareQueen]

I have spent my entire career working with those less fortunate. So did my wife. We worked are way through Graduate School and paid ever penny of it.

I love folks who lecture on social responsibility and have never worked in the trenches to help anyone.

The term used to be limousine liberals. Not sure what it is now.

Yes.....yes.....you had no advantages. Awesome conservative. Just awesome.

No....I worked extremely hard....was very successful and worked in Hospitals and other institutions to help those less fortunate.

And you have done what......

You are awesome! You've such empathy. You really feel the pain of others. I've never doubted it for a second.

And you clearly have none, and have done nothing to help others or make the world a better place. Your comments are puerile and come from a place of jealousy and anger.

I am very proud of the thousands of people I have helped over the years, including years I worked in very dangerous public housing projects. You have done nothing. Sad.

Tell me more. I love hearing how wonderful you are, WELFARE QUEEN. If only we could all be as caring as you!

How true. Thanks.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sensitivity training is a great place to score coffee and donuts ... And holds a special place in my heart.
.

Well coffee and donuts hold a special place in my heart. Sensitivity training occupies something different. . . (But we might be thinking different things about that too.)

 

[Foxfyre]

No two people are equal or ever will be equal. The Government cannot guarantee equal outcomes...sorry.

The hope of America was always the dream of equal opportunity. Whether you succeed or fail should be entirely up to you. If you fail, best not to blame mommy and daddy or people who happen to have a different skin pigment than you.

Let's don't minimize the benefit from caring people who can help level the playing field though.

There are some people who really do need a hand up. The person mired in addiction is unlikely to be able to overcome that without some help. The person who has no access to shower facilities or clean clothes, benefits greatly with help with that before he goes for the job interview. I was a physically and emotionally battered child. Could I have overcome the damage from that on my own, without positive role models and caring people who could help me unravel my feelings about that and put it behind me in my adult life? I don't know but I'm sure grateful that I didn't have to find out.

In every such case though, people are helped by others who recognize and provide what that individual person needs at the time they need it. They don't lump the 'needy' in with a whole demographic, they don't tell them they are victimized and therefore incapable of overcoming it, and race did not factor into it in any manner.

And like Black Sand eloquently pointed out, we all aren't equal in what we want, what we can do, what we will accomplish, or in how we take advantage of the opportunities we have. I had to accept that I am a champion music lover and competent amateur, but lack the skills to make a good living with music no matter how badly I wanted to. Writing an essay or speech or technical paper or telling a story comes as effortlessly to me as breathing while it is pure agony for another person. Some of us are professional quarterback material and most of us are not. My mother was as competent a seamstress as any professional making runway quality clothing every time she got out the sewing machine. I never got really good at putting in a zipper.

It is time we started looking at people as people instead of members of a race and I bet that would benefit just about everybody.

I work with a lot of young people. Most of them do look at people as people and not as members of a race. My grandson and I discussed a paper he was writing on the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" which is on his high school recommended reading list. He said, "It's really hard to relate to this kind of society. Sure, kids at school notice race but it just doesn't mean that much today" This is a big change in society which speaks well for generations to follow.

The movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" was an offering of TCM this past month and I watched it again--really great movie. And yes a most provocative book dealing with themes that were not yet popular in most of America. It has been in my personal library for many decades. The book should be on everybody's reading list. It was much the same as Edna Ferber's "Giant" and the George Stephens movie based on it.

This week we watched another provocative movie "A Family Affair" with Robert Duvall and James Earl Jones that provides a perspective on race and how racist views are best dissipated. I recommend that one to everybody too.

And one of the really important books and movies of this decade to illustrate what racism was like for black people in racist societies is "The Help". And it also helps illustrate what real racism is and what it is not.

From what I am observing though, is that young people are less institutionally or culturally racist than their parents and/or grandparents. But they are more susceptible to being drawn into these 'feel good' kinds of things like "White Privilege" classes that in my opinion create its own version of racism that is viciously destructive but disguised as righteousness.

 

[Foxfyre]

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

 

[Pogo]

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

Oddly Foxy, this is a perfect example of that other definition we argue about.

I don't have time to read the link but on the basis of your post here -- the discussion/examination of "microaggressions" seems like a good thing in the spirit of natural discourse and voicing concerns. Making it mandatory however does not.

The first is analagous to Liberalism; the second to Leftism. Therein lieth the difference. It is possible for one to be desirable and the other to be unwarranted overreach. And that's the distinction I keep trying to convey on that.

 

[Flopper]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

 

[Foxfyre]

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

Oddly Foxy, this is a perfect example of that other definition we argue about.

I don't have time to read the link but on the basis of your post here -- the discussion/examination of "microaggressions" seems like a good thing in the spirit of natural discourse and voicing concerns. Making it mandatory however does not.

The first is analagous to Liberalism; the second to Leftism. Therein lieth the difference. It is possible for one to be desirable and the other to be unwarranted overreach. And that's the distinction I keep trying to convey on that.

I would think somebody who didn't have time to read the link wouldn't have time to type an opinion about it that had absolutely nothing to do with that link.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

 

[Foxfyre]

After researching it a bit, one could conclude that "White Privilege" courses and seminars are the latest PC thing:

The 15th annual National White Privilege Conference took place in Madison, Wisconsin, last week — subjecting attendees to informational sessions that explained why everything they did was inherently racist and oppressive.

The conference was funded in part by hotel tax revenues, the University of Wisconsin and the City of Madison — in other words, by taxpayer dollars. It was a colorful week, according to an account by the MacIver Institute . . . .

White Privilege Conference Being white is like being an alcoholic The Daily Caller​

In March last year:

The University of Ottawa’s student government has come under fire for sponsoring a discussion about racism in which participants were segregated into racial groups.

The Student Federation was also accused of censoring backlash against the event by shutting down its Facebook page.

The event was held yesterday. Organizers insisted that participants would be split into two groups: white students and non-white students. The white group would discuss white privilege while the non-white group discussed being victims of discrimination, according to Macleans. . . .
University addresses racism by having racially segregated group discussion The Daily Caller​

The White Privilege Conference ended a few days ago. The Daily Caller offers a quiz in which you guess whether titles of workshops are from the White Privilege Conference or a KKK conference:
Klan Rally Or 2015 White Privilege Conf. The Daily Caller

On a very limited basis, even Notre Dame is offering a "White Privilege" course.
http://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame-will-offer-white-privilege-seminar-2015-290944

 

[WelfareQueen]

You cannot have an honest discussion if it is always presented as a one sided problem. If you have a discussion about "white privilege," then you need to include discussion about issues within the black community. Otherwise, it's a sham.

 

[Foxfyre]

You cannot have an honest discussion if it is always presented as a one sided problem. If you have a discussion about "white privilege," then you need to include discussion about issues within the black community. Otherwise, it's a sham.

Of course a large part of McWhorter's thesis suggests that all this focus on making people conscious of all this 'white privilege' is contributing a good deal to those issues within the black community. And that is the part of it some of the folks here don't or won't acknowledge.

 

[Flopper]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

I really don't buy into the rhetoric that surrounds White Privileged. White Privilege is simply the advantages that most while people enjoy over most people of a minority. Judging from the overview after the DePauw conference and a similar meeting at a local college, I have not seen any attempt at these meetings to instilling guilt in white people or anything damaging to either race.

I see no harm in a black girl explaining why see feels reluctant to socialize with white students or a white fraternity member explaining why there are so few blacks in fraternities and what might be done about it or a Pakistani who wants students to support his request to add a Muslim prayer room beside the chapel. If students and faculty want to gather together to discuss racial problems they should be allow to do so but it should not be mandatory. Most students, white or black are not really interested in doing this. Claiming that any meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is somehow bad, I think is bit ridiculous.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

I really don't buy into the rhetoric that surrounds White Privileged. White Privilege is simply the advantages that most while people enjoy over most people of a minority. Judging from the overview after the DePauw conference and a similar meeting at a local college, I have not seen any attempt at these meetings to instilling guilt in white people or anything damaging to either race.

I see no harm in a black girl explaining why see feels reluctant to socialize with white students or a white fraternity member explaining why there are so few blacks in fraternities and what might be done about it or a Pakistani who wants students to support his request to add a Muslim prayer room beside the chapel. If students and faculty want to gather together to discuss racial problems they should be allow to do so but it should not be mandatory. Most students, white or black are not really interested in doing this. Claiming that any meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is somehow bad, I think is bit ridiculous.

I don't think it's bad. But unless there is more to the discussion than "white people suck," it's probably not going to accomplish a lot.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

I really don't buy into the rhetoric that surrounds White Privileged. White Privilege is simply the advantages that most while people enjoy over most people of a minority. Judging from the overview after the DePauw conference and a similar meeting at a local college, I have not seen any attempt at these meetings to instilling guilt in white people or anything damaging to either race.

I see no harm in a black girl explaining why see feels reluctant to socialize with white students or a white fraternity member explaining why there are so few blacks in fraternities and what might be done about it or a Pakistani who wants students to support his request to add a Muslim prayer room beside the chapel. If students and faculty want to gather together to discuss racial problems they should be allow to do so but it should not be mandatory. Most students, white or black are not really interested in doing this. Claiming that any meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is somehow bad, I think is bit ridiculous.

But a meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is not what "White Privilege courses" or White Privilege seminars" are. And it has nothing to do with advantages resulting from being a majority. And it has nothing to to with racial preferences or people naturally gravitating to people more like themselves.

Let's try again to define it:

What I believe McWhorter's definition is and what my definition is for "White Privilege classes/seminars" is a deliberate attempt to instill a sense of guilt and personal responsibility into white people--guilt and personal responsibility that racism exists and it is their fault. Guilt and personal responsibility that they bear the blame for bad things their ancesters did.

And conversely it reinforces their conclusion that black people are the way they are because of 'white privilege', and black people can be excused and do not have to take full responsibility for their own choices and actions.

And the cruel results of all that is in this paragraph taken from McWhorter's essay:

To be sure, there is, indeed, a distinct White Privilege. Being white does offer a freedom not easily available to others. You can underperform without it being ascribed to your race. And when you excel, no one wonders whether Affirmative Action had anything to do with it. Authority figures are likely to be your color, and no one associates people of your color with a propensity to violence. No one expects you to represent your race in a class discussion or anywhere else. . . .

And that's just for those who aren't angry and defensive and resentful of white people in general and who don't use racism as their excuse for their choices and actions, all reinforced by "White Privilege" training.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

I really don't buy into the rhetoric that surrounds White Privileged. White Privilege is simply the advantages that most while people enjoy over most people of a minority. Judging from the overview after the DePauw conference and a similar meeting at a local college, I have not seen any attempt at these meetings to instilling guilt in white people or anything damaging to either race.

I see no harm in a black girl explaining why see feels reluctant to socialize with white students or a white fraternity member explaining why there are so few blacks in fraternities and what might be done about it or a Pakistani who wants students to support his request to add a Muslim prayer room beside the chapel. If students and faculty want to gather together to discuss racial problems they should be allow to do so but it should not be mandatory. Most students, white or black are not really interested in doing this. Claiming that any meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is somehow bad, I think is bit ridiculous.

I don't think it's bad. But unless their is more to the discussion than "white people suck," it's probably not going to accomplish a lot.

It also has to be more than if you are black then you're screwed, cheated, and don't have the same choices the white man has. You don't have the same responsibility. And you should be angry and rebellious and refuse to take any ownership for your situation, etc.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Yes, it is probably a superficial advantage to have white skin in this society. But there are enormous problems in black America. We all know the stats regarding poverty, incarceration, crime, and lack of educational attainment.

The critical question is why? What are the key factors?

Many on the left would say it is solely white racism and white "privilege." I am not saying those are no factor, but I would suggest there is more to it than simply white privilege or racism. I do believe there is a lot of responsibility to go around.

 

[Pogo]

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

Oddly Foxy, this is a perfect example of that other definition we argue about.

I don't have time to read the link but on the basis of your post here -- the discussion/examination of "microaggressions" seems like a good thing in the spirit of natural discourse and voicing concerns. Making it mandatory however does not.

The first is analagous to Liberalism; the second to Leftism. Therein lieth the difference. It is possible for one to be desirable and the other to be unwarranted overreach. And that's the distinction I keep trying to convey on that.

I would think somebody who didn't have time to read the link wouldn't have time to type an opinion about it that had absolutely nothing to do with that link.

Doesn't matter. It was a perfect analogy, so when opportunity knocked, I let it in.

 

[danielpalos]

I say, the Person who resorts to the most fallacies is the most inferior.

 

[BlackSand]

Yes, it is probably a superficial advantage to have white skin in this society. But there are enormous problems in black America. We all know the stats regarding poverty, incarceration, crime, and lack of educational attainment.

The critical question is why? What are the key factors?

Many on the left would say it is solely white racism and white "privilege." I am not saying those are no factor, but I would suggest there is more to it than simply white privilege or racism. I do believe there is a lot of responsibility to go around.

If you really want to know the answer to those questions ... From an African American man with far greater credentials than I have ... Read "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell.

Black Rednecks and White Liberals Thomas Sowell 9781594031434 Amazon.com Books

.

 

[Flopper]

I don't think "focus" (whatever we might mean by that term) on white privilege and/or racism either helps or hurts black people, no.

But I do think knowing our history -- which is the context of the world in which we live -- helps everybody equally. You can't know where you're going if you don't know how you got where you are now.

Yes. And those of Irish and Chinese and Italian and Jewish and Japanese and Mexican et al ancestry all have really ugly histories at some time in their stories of life in America.

But the point is we now have non discrimination based on race laws on the books at the federal level and every state in the union. Affirmative Action laws were probably necessary for a short period to break down cultural barriers and allow black and white people to get used to living and working side by side. That is mostly accomplished now.

Segregation was a reality but it has been abolished. Nobody has to sit in the back of the bus or use a different drinking fountain because of who or what they are any more. Everybody has full access to all public facilities and all institutions of learning etc.

So isn't it time to demand a color blind society and really allow all people to be seen and treated equally? No more of the political correctness nonsense that tends to generate more hostility than it corrects? No more protected class stuff that does put black people at a disadvantage because it forces people to treat them as more fragile and vulnerable and even inferior and incapable of achievement on their own merit. Nobody deserves that.

White privilege is really majority privilege. It exist in predominantly Muslim, Catholic, Oriental, and African societies. Racial and religious, majorities always enjoy privileges that minorities don't.

Here's another example from earlier this year. Honestly, people, do you think this is a good thing?

GREENCASTLE, Ind. – Officials at DePauw University canceled classes Thursday for the first time in over 100 years to hold a campus-wide discussion on white privilege and social justice.

The day, dubbed “DePauw Dialogue,” was organized by students and faculty to discuss “microaggressions” against minorities at the university, as well as DePauw’s history of inclusiveness, from its first black graduate, Tucker Wilson, in 1888 to recognition as a diverse liberal arts school in the 1980s, according to The DePauw student newspaper.

Freshman Diamond McDonald said she helped to organize the day-long discussion because as a black woman she always feels like “the odd one out.”

“At first I didn’t want to do (anything) because I felt like it was going to be really intense,” McDonald told The DePauw. “But then I thought ‘How selfish of me not to do this for future generations.’”

The program was mandatory for students, who were penalized if they did not attend, according to the student newspaper. . . .
UPDATED University cancels all classes to hold campus-wide white privilege seminar - EAGnews.org​

University officials decide that although the program would be beneficial for all students making it mandatory would created a negative influence. The administration announced that it would not be mandatory.

I don't think programs like this do any harm as long students are not forced to attend. Whether they help people or not??

We've been pretty much on the same page so far, Flopper, but here I have to gently disagree. "White Privilege", at least in the context of this thread, is not about majority privilege at all. It is about perceptions people have of white people as opposed to perceptions people have of black people along with instilling guilt in the white people for the sins of their ancesters. It is about justifying and reinforcing perceptions of black people that it is the white man's fault that they are in the circumstances that they are in and that they can't be blamed for it.

Personally they aren't that far off track IMO but not as they think they are. White people pushing things like these white privilege conferences and courses, IMO, are very definitely hurting black people and are having the exact opposite effect that they claim they want to produce.

I really don't buy into the rhetoric that surrounds White Privileged. White Privilege is simply the advantages that most while people enjoy over most people of a minority. Judging from the overview after the DePauw conference and a similar meeting at a local college, I have not seen any attempt at these meetings to instilling guilt in white people or anything damaging to either race.

I see no harm in a black girl explaining why see feels reluctant to socialize with white students or a white fraternity member explaining why there are so few blacks in fraternities and what might be done about it or a Pakistani who wants students to support his request to add a Muslim prayer room beside the chapel. If students and faculty want to gather together to discuss racial problems they should be allow to do so but it should not be mandatory. Most students, white or black are not really interested in doing this. Claiming that any meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is somehow bad, I think is bit ridiculous.

But a meeting of blacks and whites to discuss racial problems is not what "White Privilege courses" or White Privilege seminars" are. And it has nothing to do with advantages resulting from being a majority. And it has nothing to to with racial preferences or people naturally gravitating to people more like themselves.

Let's try again to define it:

What I believe McWhorter's definition is and what my definition is for "White Privilege classes/seminars" is a deliberate attempt to instill a sense of guilt and personal responsibility into white people--guilt and personal responsibility that racism exists and it is their fault. Guilt and personal responsibility that they bear the blame for bad things their ancesters did.

And conversely it reinforces their conclusion that black people are the way they are because of 'white privilege', and black people can be excused and do not have to take full responsibility for their own choices and actions.

And the cruel results of all that is in this paragraph taken from McWhorter's essay:

To be sure, there is, indeed, a distinct White Privilege. Being white does offer a freedom not easily available to others. You can underperform without it being ascribed to your race. And when you excel, no one wonders whether Affirmative Action had anything to do with it. Authority figures are likely to be your color, and no one associates people of your color with a propensity to violence. No one expects you to represent your race in a class discussion or anywhere else. . . .

And that's just for those who aren't angry and defensive and resentful of white people in general and who don't use racism as their excuse for their choices and actions, all reinforced by "White Privilege" training.

I don't see it as installing a sense of guilt. It is clear that privilege exists in our society, as well as on our campuses. However, that doesn't mean that pointing it out constitutes a personal attack on anyone.

Acknowledging your privilege doesn't invalidate the struggles you've had in your life or make you bigoted. It only recognizes that, in getting where you are today, you may have had advantages due to ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender or income that others haven’t . There's not inherently anything wrong in being a part of a privileged group. You are not being demonized for being white, male, straight, wealthy or any other status that grants you privilege.

Once you recognize that privilege plays an important part in social advancement, then it becomes easier to look beneath privilege at the individual characteristics of the person.