Debate Now White Privilege and an Institution of Racism

[WelfareQueen]

I have spent my entire career working with those less fortunate. So did my wife. We worked are way through Graduate School and paid ever penny of it.

I love folks who lecture on social responsibility and have never worked in the trenches to help anyone.

The term used to be limousine liberals. Not sure what it is now.

Yes.....yes.....you had no advantages. Awesome conservative. Just awesome.

No....I worked extremely hard....was very successful and worked in Hospitals and other institutions to help those less fortunate.

And you have done what......

 

[LoneLaugher]

Why is Foxy's story less valid than yours? And be specific.

It's too convenient. I don't buy it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I have spent my entire career working with those less fortunate. So did my wife. We worked are way through Graduate School and paid ever penny of it.

I love folks who lecture on social responsibility and have never worked in the trenches to help anyone.

The term used to be limousine liberals. Not sure what it is now.

Yes.....yes.....you had no advantages. Awesome conservative. Just awesome.

No....I worked extremely hard....was very successful and worked in Hospitals and other institutions to help those less fortunate.

And you have done what......

You are awesome! You've such empathy. You really feel the pain of others. I've never doubted it for a second.

 

[MaryL]

I remember McCarthyism, that hunt against communists. This political correctness (and so called anti-racism) ideology reminds me of that same absolutism, conformism, baiting, confrontation and condemnation.

 

[BlackSand]

Dude; did you know that Jim Crow did not end until 1965. Thanks for sharing your, affirmative action story,

I don't know ... I think you need to cut the older folks some slack there.

They grew up when racism still lurked behind every tree and under every stone.
Perhaps they do think the world today is the same as it was when they were growing up a breath away from separate but equal.
Perhaps they still think about what the people they associated with or family members thought about African Americans.

Crud ... I was born a little after that, and see the world differently.
I see success in people of all shapes, sizes and differences.

We can acknowledge where we came from without the constant attempts to return there as some sort of penance for ills of long ago.
It is a great idea to remember where you came from ... But if you want to go forward without ending up in the same place ... It is better that you don't keep trying to use the same path to get there.

.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I have spent my entire career working with those less fortunate. So did my wife. We worked are way through Graduate School and paid ever penny of it.

I love folks who lecture on social responsibility and have never worked in the trenches to help anyone.

The term used to be limousine liberals. Not sure what it is now.

Yes.....yes.....you had no advantages. Awesome conservative. Just awesome.

No....I worked extremely hard....was very successful and worked in Hospitals and other institutions to help those less fortunate.

And you have done what......

You are awesome! You've such empathy. You really feel the pain of others. I've never doubted it for a second.

And you clearly have none, and have done nothing to help others or make the world a better place. Your comments are puerile and come from a place of jealousy and anger.

I am very proud of the thousands of people I have helped over the years, including years I worked in very dangerous public housing projects. You have done nothing. Sad.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I have spent my entire career working with those less fortunate. So did my wife. We worked are way through Graduate School and paid ever penny of it.

I love folks who lecture on social responsibility and have never worked in the trenches to help anyone.

The term used to be limousine liberals. Not sure what it is now.

Yes.....yes.....you had no advantages. Awesome conservative. Just awesome.

No....I worked extremely hard....was very successful and worked in Hospitals and other institutions to help those less fortunate.

And you have done what......

You are awesome! You've such empathy. You really feel the pain of others. I've never doubted it for a second.

And you clearly have none, and have done nothing to help others or make the world a better place. Your comments are puerile and come from a place of jealousy and anger.

I am very proud of the thousands of people I have helped over the years, including years I worked in very dangerous public housing projects. You have done nothing. Sad.

Tell me more. I love hearing how wonderful you are, WELFARE QUEEN. If only we could all be as caring as you!

 

[Foxfyre]

Well my husband and I started out with absolutely nothing. We were $21 overdrawn at the bank and in debt on our wedding day, and neither of our parents were in a position to help us at all. And we did not feel the least bit disadvantaged or that we had any strikes against us. It wasn't anybody else's fault and we didn't blame a soul. We accepted the hand we were dealt and dug in and did what we had to do to become prosperous.

We saw to it that our children were not in that situation when they started out as adults--they had considerably more advantages than we did from Day #1--but they also had to educate themselves, do their time in the McJobs or whatever, and earn what they have.

And neither we nor they harmed a single other person, black or white, in doing what we had to do to prosper ourselves. Nor did any of us have a single thing to do with those less fortunate than we are.

So whose responsibility is it to see that everybody starts out the same as you?

Oh wow! You are awesome! An American success story! You rock !

At least my husband and I did succeed on our own merit and effort. Can we assume that you did not? That you have been provided with everything you have? You didn't have to do anything for it?

Do you feel guilty that you had more than the black person who started out with less? If not, then how do you propose to fix the problem that he had less? For that matter you seem to suggest you had a hell of lot more going for you as a kid than I did. Do you owe me something?

Which of us has the greater responsibility to the poor kid who is starting out poor? What do you expect to do in order for him to have the same advantages you had?

I already told you that I do not feel guilty. I'm growing weary of you playing games here. You might try being a little more genuine in your debate nirvana.

I'm going to guess that when you and your hubby were broke.....and decided to marry.......that you had already received degrees. Is that correct? How did that happen if you had no money and had parents with no money? Was it magic? Were you so brilliant that the degrees were free?

The arrogance of some people who cannot empathize with people for whom a college education is a distant dream.....makes me want to puke.

We married young and neither of us had degrees. What college we did have we worked for and paid all tuition, fees, room and board ourselves. Our parents did not help in any way--his parents thought college was a waste of time and mine did not deem it necessary enough for them to invest in. Same story for what education we have acquired since then too. And none of it has been free and there was no government assistance and no college loans.

If you knew anything about us at all, you would know how your implication that we are unempathetic to the poor, let along unempathetic out of arrogance is so off base it is laughable. All four of us (including our two kids) have and currently engage in avocations in hands on and up close and person help for those less fortunate. A good deal of my vocation over my lifetime has also involved that.

So again are you doing anything to help the poor? What do you think everybody should be doing to help poor black people?

Would you believe that is actually what this thread is about?

Of course! You are awesome. I've never met a conservative who didn't do everything for themselves. It's amazIng!

I don't believe you. It's a nice story, though.

Then can I guess from this post that you are saying you aren't doing a damn thing to help anybody else and don't intend to? Can I also assume that because you say you care about poor black people and blame and accuse and judge other folks other than yourself for making black people poor, you've done your part? And that is sufficient and you don't need to do anything about it?

You say you don't believe me. I believe everything you said about yourself. And I also believe a lot of people who have been given what they have think empathy is all they owe anybody else. Throw in some blame at those they disagree with and demand that those others should feel guilty for what they have--hell force them into White Privilege sensitivity training already--and then complete moral superiority can be claimed.

 

[BlackSand]

Sensitivity training is a great place to score coffee and donuts ... And holds a special place in my heart.

.

 

[danielpalos]

Dude; did you know that Jim Crow did not end until 1965. Thanks for sharing your, affirmative action story,

I don't know ... I think you need to cut the older folks some slack there.

They grew up when racism still lurked behind every tree and under every stone.
Perhaps they do think the world today is the same as it was when they were growing up a breath away from separate but equal.
Perhaps they still think about what the people they associated with or family members thought about African Americans.

Crud ... I was born a little after that, and see the world differently.
I see success in people of all shapes, sizes and differences.

We can acknowledge where we came from without the constant attempts to return there as some sort of penance for ills of long ago.
It is a great idea to remember where you came from ... But if you want to go forward without ending up in the same place ... It is better that you don't keep trying to use the same path to get there.

.

I don't know; We do have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge; so, Job 34:30 may apply; so, why should we cut anyone any slack if they are practicing the abomination of hypocrisy in any office of public Trust?

 

[danielpalos]

Sensitivity training is a great place to score coffee and donuts ... And holds a special place in my heart.

.

exploring the concept of a citizens' enjoinder; wanna join me for coffee and donuts; we may need to "requisition" law enforcement corporal.

 

[BlackSand]

I don't know; We do have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge; so, Job 34:30 may apply; so, why should we cut anyone any slack if they are practicing the abomination of hypocrisy in any office of public Trust?

Well ... I believe that would be the responsibility of the people who put the leaders there.
Where it would be the path of the righteous to speak to the abomination you suggest ... Judgment and forgiveness are blessing bestowed by greater powers than myself.

But I am no expert in the text or theology ... And my favorite text was never included in the Bible anyway because it is from the Gospel of Thomas and could not be authenticated.

"Split a piece of wood and I am there ... Lift the rock and you will find me there."
I think we come closer to God or purpose through the work we do and the actions we take ... Not through what we say.

As McWhorter identified in his piece ... The classes may do more damage because they are heavily weighted with discussion over actual tangible results in a real-time environment.

.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't know; We do have a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge; so, Job 34:30 may apply; so, why should we cut anyone any slack if they are practicing the abomination of hypocrisy in any office of public Trust?

Well ... I believe that would be the responsibility of the people who put the leaders there.
Where it would be the path of the righteous to speak to the abomination you suggest ... Judgment and forgiveness are blessing bestowed by greater powers than myself.

But I am no expert in the text or theology ... And my favorite text was never included in the Bible anyway because it is from the Gospel of Thomas and could not be authenticated.

"Split a piece of wood and I am there ... Lift the rock and you will find me there."
I think we come closer to God or purpose through the work we do and the actions we take ... Not through what we say.

As McWhorter identified in his piece ... The classes may do more damage because they are heavily weighted with discussion over actual tangible results in a real-time environment.

.

What if we should have to quibble in legal venues?

 

[BlackSand]

What if we should have to quibble in legal venues?

When you are busy working, and bettering the world around you ... You seldom find yourself in a legal venue.
If you want to quibble ... Bring your tool belt and we can chat about it in the truck or over lunch (far more pleasant than a courtroom).

Of course some would suggest the fact that I am not African American would probably reduce my chances of ending up in a legal venue anyway.
Up until now I thought it was because I wasn't breaking the law or didn't quibble with law enforcement officers if I was pulled over for a ticket.

.

 

[danielpalos]

Some persons may find themselves in legal venues, simply for having a work ethic.

 

[Ravi]

If you were black you would more than likely have ended up in jail.

In jail for what?

.

Think.

I have thought ... And the only thing I could come up with was the fact they were overdrawn.

But then again ... Banks and lending institutions aren't in the business of sending people to jail ... They would prefer to get their money.
All you have to do is give them a call and make payment arrangements if necessary.

Silver spoon folks might not know that though.

.

Banks, probably not. The recipient of the bad check is another story.

Being overdrawn is the PC term for committing fraud, btw.

 

[BlackSand]

Banks, probably not. The recipient of the bad check is another story.

Being overdrawn is the PC term for committing fraud, btw.

If you are "overdrawn" the bank has already paid the bill ... And if you make a habit of it, they will prosecute you, as they should.

.

 

[Ravi]

Banks, probably not. The recipient of the bad check is another story.

Being overdrawn is the PC term for committing fraud, btw.

If you are "overdrawn" the bank has already paid the bill ... And if you make a habit of it, they will prosecute you, as they should.

.

Only if you have overdraft protection will they pay it. Now. And who knows if such a thing existed back in the day when FF was writing bad checks. Or if she could even cough up the money to pay the bank for overdraft protection.

 

[Foxfyre]

Banks, probably not. The recipient of the bad check is another story.

Being overdrawn is the PC term for committing fraud, btw.

If you are "overdrawn" the bank has already paid the bill ... And if you make a habit of it, they will prosecute you, as they should.

.

The bank can't prosecute you for something they voluntarily do. Overdraw regularly and the bank just didn't honor the check and the merchant you wrote it to would deal with you. In this case the bank voluntarily covered our check and we covered the bank very quickly. Neither of us has ever written a 'bad check' in our entire lives. Back then it happened when you had very little money and both husband and wife were writing checks. One might not realize the other had already zeroed out the account when they wrote a check. These days most people use debit cards and credit cards and the bank rejects the purchase on the spot if you are overextended. We had neither back then.

But out of that, because nobody told us we were unfairly poor or oppressed or didn't have a chance, we did what we had to to do to little by little improve our circumstances and move out of poverty squarely into the middle class. Being poor was not considered a handicap. It was considered a circumstance. And nobody insisted that anybody should do anything about it other than the person who didn't want to remain poor.

Coincidentally our black friends back then all made it into the middle class too, some much more impressively than we did. And most did it without affirmative action or any government help of any kind.

So bringing this back to the thread topic, maybe those "White Privilege" classes are the very thing we should not be doing? Maybe mandatory "Possibilities and here's what everybody needs to do to succeed" classes would be a far more beneficial thing?

 

[Flopper]

No two people are equal or ever will be equal. The Government cannot guarantee equal outcomes...sorry.

The hope of America was always the dream of equal opportunity. Whether you succeed or fail should be entirely up to you. If you fail, best not to blame mommy and daddy or people who happen to have a different skin pigment than you.

Let's don't minimize the benefit from caring people who can help level the playing field though.

There are some people who really do need a hand up. The person mired in addiction is unlikely to be able to overcome that without some help. The person who has no access to shower facilities or clean clothes, benefits greatly with help with that before he goes for the job interview. I was a physically and emotionally battered child. Could I have overcome the damage from that on my own, without positive role models and caring people who could help me unravel my feelings about that and put it behind me in my adult life? I don't know but I'm sure grateful that I didn't have to find out.

In every such case though, people are helped by others who recognize and provide what that individual person needs at the time they need it. They don't lump the 'needy' in with a whole demographic, they don't tell them they are victimized and therefore incapable of overcoming it, and race did not factor into it in any manner.

And like Black Sand eloquently pointed out, we all aren't equal in what we want, what we can do, what we will accomplish, or in how we take advantage of the opportunities we have. I had to accept that I am a champion music lover and competent amateur, but lack the skills to make a good living with music no matter how badly I wanted to. Writing an essay or speech or technical paper or telling a story comes as effortlessly to me as breathing while it is pure agony for another person. Some of us are professional quarterback material and most of us are not. My mother was as competent a seamstress as any professional making runway quality clothing every time she got out the sewing machine. I never got really good at putting in a zipper.

It is time we started looking at people as people instead of members of a race and I bet that would benefit just about everybody.

I work with a lot of young people. Most of them do look at people as people and not as members of a race. My grandson and I discussed a paper he was writing on the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" which is on his high school recommended reading list. He said, "It's really hard to relate to this kind of society. Sure, kids at school notice race but it just doesn't mean that much today" This is a big change in society which speaks well for generations to follow.