Who Should Have The Right To Vote?

[Londoner]

So here's my proposal. Zero liability voters should be banned!

That's right. If you're a net consumer of government, you don't get to vote. It's perfectly fair since I'm the one paying taxes to fund your entitlements. This doesn't include people on Social Security. They paid into that and they deserve to draw from it. That isn't welfare.

But for those of you who pay ZERO taxes, who are on welfare, foodstamps, or disability, I don't hate you, I have no animosity toward you, but I don't think you should have the right to vote in this country.

I sort of agree with some of what you say. [I actually love Michael Savage, especially his stories about Teddy and sailing - but I don't take him seriously as a political pundit. He's an entertainer, and a brilliant one at that]

The biggest takers are large corporations (who fund our elections and pour trillions of dollars into the pockets of our politicians). They have the greatest influence on our political process. Therefore, if you are concerned with the "takers", it behooves you to learn the actual dollar amount of subsidies & bailouts given to large corporations, making sure to note their individual tax liabilities. For instance, do you even know which large corporations pay no taxes because of loopholes and subsidy arrangements? Secondly, if you don't have any of this data, why are you posting in a forum. Why not at least try to learn this stuff?

[Do you even understand the lobbying system? Do you know why the largest buildings in Washington DC are now filled by lobbyists who go to Washington to gain access to government money? Please try to learn some of this stuff.]

You need to balance your food-stamp hysteria with information about the corrupt subsidy system that allows the largest corporations to socialize their costs/risks while at the same time shifting their labor costs to freedom hating countries like communist China. Before you post stuff like this, you should at least attempt to do some heavy lifting and actual research (rather than passively conveying stuff heard on talk radio). Can you even list the subsidies that Exxon gets? Do you know the cost to the taxpayer for stabilizing the middle east so their supply chain is protected? Do you know how much our large corporations benefit from the military stabilization of the 3rd world, where they draw cheap raw material and labor? Do you know the cost of this stabilization? You should know this stuff before making a post like this, otherwise you end up repeating garbage from paranoid low information pundits.

Be careful with what you wish for...
Red States, especially the impoverished ones in the deep south, are big takers from Washington. Yet, their citizens, many lacking higher education and a diversity of information sources, are the most vulnerable to Talk Radio, which over-reports the costs of social welfare and under-reports the costs of corporate welfare (because rightwing talk radio is funded by large corporations who use the culture war and food-stamp-hysteria to get you to do their bidding).

[You probably think I'm lying because you've never even studied or had access to information on corporate subsidies and bailouts.] More to the point. I beg you to study the amount of welfare that goes to poor Red States, and then take at look at who they vote for. If your plan is enacted, you are going to hand the election to wealthy limousine liberals.]

[The OP would never take the time to study the amount of welfare that goes to Red State voters, nor would he ever take the time to study the corporate subsidy and bailout system. He has no actual facts, yet he has strong opinions because he consumes massive amounts of Talk Radio propaganda. The country is dying because voters like him on both sides of the aisle have been turned into passive receptacles of false information]

[help]

 

[candycorn]

Why stop at civics? We're $17B in debt; lets limit the vote to those with advanced finance degrees and can figure out which candidate has the best program? Knowing trivia (such as who is the Secretary of Veterans Affairs) means zilch in this climate.

Since most of these people will be in Obama's key demographic....do you feel comfortable with that? If not why not? It will limit the smartest people in the room to voting and isn't that the goal?

May I suggest MIT Professor Johnathon Gruber? He thinks everyone else is stupid and could tax the country back to prosperity.

Never heard of him

The OP's position, however, is stupid. We are all net consumers of government unless you don't think the military is defending you, that the FCC is not protecting your children from salacious material coming through the airwaves, that the bridge and road inspectors are not helping to assure that you have safe roads to drive on, that your next airplane trip has adequate safety measures built in, that your drinking water is safe or that your computer isn't hacked. And if any of that stuff happens, you have a court system to address the issues.

 

[TooTall]

We've come a long way in this country. At the start, voting laws were determined on a state by state basis. Many required land ownership for voting rights. Women and colored people were not necessarily excluded since they too have been landowners since well before the start of this country. The concept was that those who had no investment in this country should have no say in in our government, a concept not without merit.

These days it seems we've accepted this idiotic notion that everyone should be able to vote. It's created a serious conflict of interest when people dependent on government are able to vote to increase and sustain such dependence extorting the toils of the producers in this country.

So here's my proposal. Zero liability voters should be banned!

That's right. If you're a net consumer of government, you don't get to vote. It's perfectly fair since I'm the one paying taxes to fund your entitlements. This doesn't include people on Social Security. They paid into that and they deserve to draw from it. That isn't welfare.

But for those of you who pay ZERO taxes, who are on welfare, foodstamps, or disability, I don't hate you, I have no animosity toward you, but I don't think you should have the right to vote in this country.

So American troops don't get to vote?

Do you know what earned benefits are and can you distinguish them from welfare?

I quote you:
It's created a serious conflict of interest when people dependent on government are able to vote to increase

American troops are entirely dependent upon government payments.

American troops perform a service for their pay. One of those services is protecting your right to be an asshole.

Apparently some supposedly "rich" person here doesn't think they provide a service for him/her since he swears he gets "nothing" from the government.

I know that you are not referring to me or my post, but "rich" persons get many of the same services that poor people get and probably a few more. A "rich" person can drive on a government built road, that his taxes helped build and poor person can walk on the sidewalk that he got for free.

I do see your point.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Cool! Another USMB nutter has outlined the primary USMB nutter motivation. Fear that some lesser being is going to take their shit.

Lesser beings are taking my shit, and if you have job, they are taking your shit as well and you are too dumb to know it.

Nah.....there are some needy people who haven't the same opportunity as you and I. They are our fellow American citizens. Very few of them game the system and do nothing but consume tax dollars. Very very, few. These people do not have my support......but they are a reality. I question their mental state. But...I won't force them into starvation.

The rest are hardworking Americans. It is our responsibility to see that they get the help they need. I don't begrudge them a cent of it.

This is America. We can take care of our own, can't we?

 

[mudwhistle]

More far right reactionary nonsense.

Better known as "common-sense".

 

[kaz]

But for those of you who pay ZERO taxes, who are on welfare, foodstamps, or disability, I don't hate you, I have no animosity toward you, but I don't think you should have the right to vote in this country.

I don't get the "zero taxes" but I agree anyone getting a check by government of other people's money should not vote, it's a blatant conflict of interest. You didn't mention the biggest welfare program, social security.

I always thought that the "I" in FICA stood for Insurance and you are telling me that those that paid the insurance premium and are now collecting it are on welfare?

Yes, they are, because they didn't save any of the money. They spent it as it came in.

Our parents gave us a bill for their retirement. They said don't worry about it, here's a trust fund to help pay for it. Then they gave us bills for the money to put in the trust fund.

Social Security payments were no different than income taxes, business taxes or any other tax that you don't pretend it a trust fund. Government taxed and immediately spent the money saving not a dime.

 

[TooTall]

Why stop at civics? We're $17B in debt; lets limit the vote to those with advanced finance degrees and can figure out which candidate has the best program? Knowing trivia (such as who is the Secretary of Veterans Affairs) means zilch in this climate.

Since most of these people will be in Obama's key demographic....do you feel comfortable with that? If not why not? It will limit the smartest people in the room to voting and isn't that the goal?

May I suggest MIT Professor Johnathon Gruber? He thinks everyone else is stupid and could tax the country back to prosperity.

Never heard of him

The OP's position, however, is stupid. We are all net consumers of government unless you don't think the military is defending you, that the FCC is not protecting your children from salacious material coming through the airwaves, that the bridge and road inspectors are not helping to assure that you have safe roads to drive on, that your next airplane trip has adequate safety measures built in, that your drinking water is safe or that your computer isn't hacked. And if any of that stuff happens, you have a court system to address the issues.

No argument from me on that.

Allow me to introduce Professor Gruber to you.

"In 2009–10 Gruber served as a technical consultant to the Obama Administration and worked with both the administration and Congress to help craft the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, often referred to as the ACA or "Obamacare".The act was signed into law in March 2010, and Gruber has been described as an "architect", "writer", and "consultant" of the legislation. He was widely interviewed and quoted during the roll-out of the legislation.

He later made this and several other public statements referring to how stupid the American people are.

“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,”Mr. Grubersaid. “Call it the stupidity of the American voter, or whatever. But basically, that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.”

 

[TooTall]

But for those of you who pay ZERO taxes, who are on welfare, foodstamps, or disability, I don't hate you, I have no animosity toward you, but I don't think you should have the right to vote in this country.

I don't get the "zero taxes" but I agree anyone getting a check by government of other people's money should not vote, it's a blatant conflict of interest. You didn't mention the biggest welfare program, social security.

I always thought that the "I" in FICA stood for Insurance and you are telling me that those that paid the insurance premium and are now collecting it are on welfare?

Yes, they are, because they didn't save any of the money. They spent it as it came in.

Our parents gave us a bill for their retirement. They said don't worry about it, here's a trust fund to help pay for it. Then they gave us bills for the money to put in the trust fund.

Social Security payments were no different than income taxes, business taxes or any other tax that you don't pretend it a trust fund. Government taxed and immediately spent the money saving not a dime.

So you blame the elderly that were forced to pay into a government insurance program for the incompetence of the government to manage the program they invented.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The far right droids like Kosh should not vote until they have their lobotomies reversed.

Kosh, most illegals here would be better at citizenship then you.

Anchor babies are brighter than you.

Corporations should not be able to vote because they are business welfare dependent on government.

I was really pissed when a corporation was voting right next to me. Good catch.

Was that 'corporation' a Doctor or Dentist?

 

[TooTall]

The far right droids like Kosh should not vote until they have their lobotomies reversed.

Kosh, most illegals here would be better at citizenship then you.

Anchor babies are brighter than you.

Corporations should not be able to vote because they are business welfare dependent on government.

I was really pissed when a corporation was voting right next to me. Good catch.

Was that 'corporation' a Doctor or Dentist?

It was General Motors or General Mills. I missed seeing the logo.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Who in their right mind can disagree with this?
If you have no skin in the game you wont do whats right for the country,only that which will further enrich you at the cost of the tax payer.
It's a no brainer really.

Those who have "skin in the game" and donate to any political action committee, any candidate, or any effort in any state to put forth any Initiative to amend a state constitution, any one who signs a petition for such an amendment and all Gay people, all people who attend church, are members of the NRA, AMA, Federalist Society, hold stock in a Military Industrial Complex Company, smoke MJ or tobacco, drink alcohol and belong to a political party should be excluded, for each of them wants something.

That's a no brainer.

LOL, but not Unions or other liberal special interests, what a tool.

Mea Culpa, edited and included labor union.

Of course you missed the point, no surprise there.

But not other liberal special interests, just the one? What about NOLW, the ACLLU, the NAALCP, the NEA, the NEA, so called environmental groups, ...

LOL, another concrete thinker. I left out a bunch (lots of banana) simply because my post was sarcastic. Add any which pleases you, doing so puts the OP where it belongs, in the shit can.

 

[Spare_change]

"A democracy can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury."

 

[Wry Catcher]

"A democracy can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury."

Caveat, a Republic remains democratic up to the point that its membership owes its job to a 527.

 

[Londoner]

Study the amount of welfare that goes to poor Red States - I'm talking about the deeply impoverished ones in the South like Mississippi - and then take at look at who they vote for. If your plan is enacted, you are going to hand the election to wealthy limousine liberals.

The OP would never take the time to study the amount of welfare that goes to Red State voters, nor would he ever take the time to study the corporate subsidy and bailout system (which turns our large corporations into net takers, especially the ones who have shifted their production to cheaper labor markets in freedom hating countries like Communist China).

Under the OP's plan large corporations (who lobby Washington to socialize their costs/risks) and Red State voters (who receive massive welfare subsidies) would not be able to vote - leaving only the wealthy liberals. The OP has no actual facts, yet he has strong opinions because he consumes massive amounts of Talk Radio propaganda. The country is dying because voters like him on both sides of the aisle have been turned into passive receptacles of false information. Exxon's effective tax rate is $0 because it receives the largest government benefits from subsidies and the military stabilization of mideast oil fields. They are also one of the largest funders of the Republican Party. Under the OP's plan, the very movement which feeds him information would lose the very funding it needs to fund elections and manage opinions. In short, he is cutting away the very branch upon which he sits.

[and he votes]

[help]

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Study the amount of welfare that goes to poor Red States, and then take at look at who they vote for. If your plan is enacted, you are going to hand the election to wealthy limousine liberals.

The OP would never take the time to study the amount of welfare that goes to Red State voters, nor would he ever take the time to study the corporate subsidy and bailout system. Under the OP's plan large corporations (who lobby Washington to socialize costs/risks) and Red State voters (who receive massive welfare subsidies) would not be able to vote - leaving only the wealthy liberals. The OP has no actual facts, yet he has strong opinions because he consumes massive amounts of Talk Radio propaganda. The country is dying because voters like him on both sides of the aisle have been turned into passive receptacles of false information. Exxon's effective tax rate is $0 because it receives the largest government benefits from subsidies and the military stabilization of mideast oil fields. They are also one of the largest funders of the Republican Party. Under the OP's plan, the very movement which feeds him information would lose the very funding it needs to fund elections and manage opinions. In short, he is cutting away the very branch upon which he sits.

[and he votes]

[help]

Look at where those welfare recipients live in those red states.
In Texas it's along the border and in the inner cities....all of which vote dem.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Study the amount of welfare that goes to poor Red States, and then take at look at who they vote for. If your plan is enacted, you are going to hand the election to wealthy limousine liberals.

The OP would never take the time to study the amount of welfare that goes to Red State voters, nor would he ever take the time to study the corporate subsidy and bailout system. Under the OP's plan large corporations (who lobby Washington to socialize costs/risks) and Red State voters (who receive massive welfare subsidies) would not be able to vote - leaving only the wealthy liberals. The OP has no actual facts, yet he has strong opinions because he consumes massive amounts of Talk Radio propaganda. The country is dying because voters like him on both sides of the aisle have been turned into passive receptacles of false information. Exxon's effective tax rate is $0 because it receives the largest government benefits from subsidies and the military stabilization of mideast oil fields. They are also one of the largest funders of the Republican Party. Under the OP's plan, the very movement which feeds him information would lose the very funding it needs to fund elections and manage opinions. In short, he is cutting away the very branch upon which he sits.

[and he votes]

[help]

Look at where those welfare recipients live in those red states.
In Texas it's along the border and in the inner cities....all of which vote dem.

I live in a state so red, every county voted against Obama, not once, but twice. 1 out of every 5 children go to bed hungry.

 

[kaz]

Social Security payments were no different than income taxes, business taxes or any other tax that you don't pretend it a trust fund. Government taxed and immediately spent the money saving not a dime.

So you blame the elderly that were forced to pay into a government insurance program for the incompetence of the government to manage the program they invented.

What does who I "blame" have to do with anything? Did you understand the point I made? There is no money, it's welfare. Who I blame for that makes no difference to that point.

 

[kaz]

Who in their right mind can disagree with this?
If you have no skin in the game you wont do whats right for the country,only that which will further enrich you at the cost of the tax payer.
It's a no brainer really.

Those who have "skin in the game" and donate to any political action committee, any candidate, or any effort in any state to put forth any Initiative to amend a state constitution, any one who signs a petition for such an amendment and all Gay people, all people who attend church, are members of the NRA, AMA, Federalist Society, hold stock in a Military Industrial Complex Company, smoke MJ or tobacco, drink alcohol and belong to a political party should be excluded, for each of them wants something.

That's a no brainer.

LOL, but not Unions or other liberal special interests, what a tool.

Mea Culpa, edited and included labor union.

Of course you missed the point, no surprise there.

But not other liberal special interests, just the one? What about NOLW, the ACLLU, the NAALCP, the NEA, the NEA, so called environmental groups, ...

LOL, another concrete thinker. I left out a bunch (lots of banana) simply because my post was sarcastic. Add any which pleases you, doing so puts the OP where it belongs, in the shit can.

Once again you are the one who missed the point. You wrote a sarcastic post,again, dripping with liberal bias.

As for your point, it was stupid. We were discussing people who politicians give other people's money to. That has nothing to do with anyone with an interest in what government does

 

[bripat9643]

We've come a long way in this country. At the start, voting laws were determined on a state by state basis. Many required land ownership for voting rights. Women and colored people were not necessarily excluded since they too have been landowners since well before the start of this country. The concept was that those who had no investment in this country should have no say in in our government, a concept not without merit.

These days it seems we've accepted this idiotic notion that everyone should be able to vote. It's created a serious conflict of interest when people dependent on government are able to vote to increase and sustain such dependence extorting the toils of the producers in this country.

So here's my proposal. Zero liability voters should be banned!

That's right. If you're a net consumer of government, you don't get to vote. It's perfectly fair since I'm the one paying taxes to fund your entitlements. This doesn't include people on Social Security. They paid into that and they deserve to draw from it. That isn't welfare.

But for those of you who pay ZERO taxes, who are on welfare, foodstamps, or disability, I don't hate you, I have no animosity toward you, but I don't think you should have the right to vote in this country.

Time for this rightwing lunacy to make another of its regular appearances.

How do you propose to calculate whether a rich guy is a giver or a taker? He might pay taxes of a certain amount, but he might be getting a net higher benefit from all the government funded goods and services he's using,

in a business, for example.

It's not whether you benefit from government goods and services, like roads and police protection, it's wether you get payments from the government.

We can always count on a lib to misstate the argument because they can't win otherwise.

Goods and services are payments moron.

btw, this looney idea takes the right to vote away from everyone on Medicare, because Medicare is only 60% covered by the payroll taxes those people paid. The rest comes out of the general fund.

So good luck convincing your parents or grandparents they don't deserve to vote.

You can't blame the person that paid the required premiums for Medicare just because the government wrote such a piss poor insurance policy.

Why should the people who have to pay for this debacle be penalized for it?

 

[bripat9643]

Who in their right mind can disagree with this?
If you have no skin in the game you wont do whats right for the country,only that which will further enrich you at the cost of the tax payer.
It's a no brainer really.

Those who have "skin in the game" and donate to any political action committee, any candidate, or any effort in any state to put forth any Initiative to amend a state constitution, any one who signs a petition for such an amendment and all Gay people, all people who attend church, are members of the NRA, AMA, Federalist Society, hold stock in a Military Industrial Complex Company, smoke MJ or tobacco, drink alcohol and belong to a political party, labor union, should be excluded, for each of them wants something.

That's a no brainer.

Wanting things isn't the issue. Getting paid by the government is the issue. corporations don't allow their buyers to take money from vendors for a reason. It's the same reason anyone sucking on the government tit shouldn't be allowed to decide how much milk the tit gives.