Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Gadawg73]

With all the problems this nation faces abortion is maybe, maybe 179th on the list.
Abortion: a NON ISSUE.

True.

I put the welfare of infants pretty high on my list of priorities. \

Everybody knows that the people who support abortion don't, it's not exactly news that you rank child welfare somewhere below gay marriage and the price of cosmetic surgery.

An infant is a walking baby.
I put them very high on my priorities.
Higher than abortion.
Infants will be paying the debt we have run up.
The debt is more important issue than abortion. Abortion is a non issue.
No law stops it. How dense do you have to be. One state bans it. They go to the next state.
Well DUH.
I OPPOSE ABORTION just like I oppose smoking, irresponsible parents and a thousand other things.
I oppose the doctors that wrote the "it was in the best interest of the mother" when abortion was illegal.
How do you stop that? If Roe was overturned tomorrow don't you know that 70%+ of abortions STILL WOULD HAPPEN.
If you don't you either will not admit it due to stubborness, which I believe is the real answer, or you ar dumb as hell which I do not believe.
Abortion is A NON ISSUE.

 

[AllieBaba]

An infant is a WALKING baby?

So they aren't infants until what, 9 months or so?

Fucking freak.

 

[R.D.]

True.

I put the welfare of infants pretty high on my list of priorities. \

Everybody knows that the people who support abortion don't, it's not exactly news that you rank child welfare somewhere below gay marriage and the price of cosmetic surgery.

An infant is a walking baby.
.

Thats a toddler, idiot

 

[AllieBaba]

Abortion is a non-issue to you because you want those particular children dead and gone. I know that.

That doesn't make it a non-issue for the majority of Americans.

 

[Anguille]

An infant is a WALKING baby?

So they aren't infants until what, 9 months or so?

Fucking freak.

I notice you are unable to refute anything else he says.

 

[AllieBaba]

I didn't read anything else. Why would I? You open your argument with a moronism, I'm not giving credence to anything else that's said.

Not that I give that retard any credence anyway.

 

[Immanuel]

True.

I put the welfare of infants pretty high on my list of priorities. \

Everybody knows that the people who support abortion don't, it's not exactly news that you rank child welfare somewhere below gay marriage and the price of cosmetic surgery.

An infant is a walking baby.
I put them very high on my priorities.
Higher than abortion.
Infants will be paying the debt we have run up.
The debt is more important issue than abortion. Abortion is a non issue.
No law stops it. How dense do you have to be. One state bans it. They go to the next state.
Well DUH.
I OPPOSE ABORTION just like I oppose smoking, irresponsible parents and a thousand other things.
I oppose the doctors that wrote the "it was in the best interest of the mother" when abortion was illegal.
How do you stop that? If Roe was overturned tomorrow don't you know that 70%+ of abortions STILL WOULD HAPPEN.
If you don't you either will not admit it due to stubborness, which I believe is the real answer, or you ar dumb as hell which I do not believe.
Abortion is A NON ISSUE.

You know something? If I thought that overturning Roe would save approximately 300,000 lives I would definitely support overturning it. I have come to the conclusion, unlike Allie (I wish I could believe she was correct in her analysis) that overturning Roe would not save any lives. But, you seem to believe that doing so would save nearly 300,000 lives so maybe...

I disagree with you. Abortion is a major issue this country faces and for many reasons. However, I am glad to know that you along with most pro choice people do, in fact, oppose abortion. We may see things differently in our beliefs about the role of government in this issue, but as long as most of us oppose abortion there is still hope.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Most abortions are simply birth control. The women that get those do not seek abortions if they are illegal. They get them because they're easy and they're told it's acceptable to get them. Quit telling girls and women that, and remove the ease with which they can get them, of course the numbers drop.

The flaw in this thinking is the concept that all women who get abortions are in desperate situations. They aren't. They just screwed up and don't want to deal with a pregnancy. It isn't even about the baby. It's the pregnancy. Cuz anyone can get rid of a baby once it's born.

 

[Immanuel]

Most abortions are simply birth control. The women that get those do not seek abortions if they are illegal. They get them because they're easy and they're told it's acceptable to get them. Quit telling girls and women that, and remove the ease with which they can get them, of course the numbers drop.

The flaw in this thinking is the concept that all women who get abortions are in desperate situations. They aren't. They just screwed up and don't want to deal with a pregnancy. It isn't even about the baby. It's the pregnancy. Cuz anyone can get rid of a baby once it's born.

I have to disagree with you, Allie, abortion has been to prevalent in our lives for to long now and now we have RU-486 to assist them. Not to mention the fact that even when abortion was illegal it was still quite common.

I do not have the faith in the fear of the law that you have. Women will seek abortions and have them whether or not they are legal.

Also, if Roe is overturned then it will go back to the states and we will end up with a patchwork of states that allow abortion and those that don't. Clearly New York and California will not ban it in its entirety. So, no abortion will be stopped at all. With today's ease of transportation, one can get to either one of those two states in a matter of hours and at very little expense.

I wish I could agree with you. I simply believe you are mistaken.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

yeah well the facts don't bear that out. Not only did the numbers increase when they were made legal, they continued to climb, and climb, and climb as legalized abortion was pushed by the schools and became accepted by the main stream.

There's been a small decrease over the last few years, attributable directly to the fact that abortion is no longer preached the way it was in the 70s and early 80s, and as it becomes more and more obvious to everyone that it's just about killing babies. There's no other purpose for abortion, that's the beginning and end of it, and people, as they recognize that, have quit promoting it with the degree of vigor they once did.

 

[midcan5]

Both of these threads should be the Religion section.

"It seems to me that a case can be made for taking a human life statute that dates the origin of personhood at conception to be an "establishment" of religious doctrine. The argument runs as follows. For reasons given above, it is quite contrary to common sense to claim that a newly fertilized human ovum is already an actual person. Employing the term 'person' in the normal fashion, no one thinks of a fertilized egg in that way. The only arguments that have been advanced to the conclusion that fertilized eggs are people, common sense notwithstanding, are arguments with theological premises. These premises are part of large theological and philosophical systems that are very much worthy of respect indeed, but they can neither be established nor refuted without critical discussion of the whole systems of which they form a part. In fact, many conscientious persons reject them, often in favor of doctrines stemming from rival theological systems; so for the state to endorse the personhood of newly fertilized ova would be for the state to embrace one set of controversial theological tenets rather than others, in effect to enforce the teaching of some churches against those of other churches (and nonchurches), and to back up this enforcement with severe criminal penalties. The state plays this constitutionally prohibited role when it officially affirms a doctrine that is opposed to common sense and understanding and whose only proposed arguments proceed from theological premises. This case, it seems to me, is a good one even if there is reason, as there might be, for affirming the personhood of fetuses in the second or third trimester of pregnancy." Joel Feinberg Joel Feinberg, Abortion

 

[AllieBaba]

See, lol. Midcan trolling.

Admit it, bigot, you want it moved to the religion section so you can start bashing Christians in it.

Pssst...abortion isn't a religion. I know, I know, it's worshipped by many as a religion, but so far, it hasn't gotten that tax exempt status.

 

[Immanuel]

yeah well the facts don't bear that out. Not only did the numbers increase when they were made legal, they continued to climb, and climb, and climb as legalized abortion was pushed by the schools and became accepted by the main stream.

There's been a small decrease over the last few years, attributable directly to the fact that abortion is no longer preached the way it was in the 70s and early 80s, and as it becomes more and more obvious to everyone that it's just about killing babies. There's no other purpose for abortion, that's the beginning and end of it, and people, as they recognize that, have quit promoting it with the degree of vigor they once did.

One area that leads me to disagree with you is as you stated here. It has become accepted. Making it illegal will not change that at least not for 50 years or so.

I agree the way to reduce abortions is to change the fact that it is so acceptable. Making it illegal may, in fact, make that much harder than simply working to make it socially unacceptable.

Smoking pot has been illegal forever yet people do it all the time. It is extremely rare to find someone who can legitimately claim never to have smoked it or who will even claim not to have smoked it. I am one of those that has never done so. The smell of it makes me gag. Making abortion illegal won't stop it in my opinion.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Well you're welcome to believe that. You are, of course, wrong, though.

Guttmacher Institute: Abortion

Everyone should educate themselves on this issue.

 

[Anguille]

Most abortions are simply birth control. .

Technically speaking, all abortions are birth control. But if by your mis worded statement you mean to imply that most women who undergo an abortion are doing so because they didn't use birth control I'd like to see some facts to substantiate that claim.

Everyone I've known personally who has had a n abortion did so after their birth control failed.
I've also read that the high rate of abortion in Russia is due to the unavailability of other forms of birth control. I imagine that is the case in most other areas of the world where abortion rates are high.

In any case, whether people who fail to use birth control pills, condoms, abstinence, etc are careless or not, it does not justify denying them a basic human right.

 

[AllieBaba]

Read this, Immie:

"

The number and rate of abortions are in part dependent
on the accessibility of abortion services, which may
be affected by the number of providers, gestational limits,
cost and antiabortion harassment. The number of abortion
providers in the United States has been declining
steadily:* It peaked in 1982, at 2,900 facilities, and had
fallen to 1,800 by 2005.​

​

​

​

1 In that year, 87% of counties
lacked an abortion provider, and 35% of women aged
15–44 lived in those counties;1 some of these women may​

lack the time or resources to travel to a provider."

I think it's pretty obvious that when abortion isn't legal, the rate drops substantially.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/4304111.pdf

 

[Anguille]

Both of these threads should be the Religion section.

Perhaps. I think the Misogyny section might also be appropriate.

 

[Ravi]

legalized abortion was pushed by the schools

Why must you lie?

 

[JBeukema]

True.

I put the welfare of infants pretty high on my list of priorities. \

Everybody knows that the people who support abortion don't, it's not exactly news that you rank child welfare somewhere below gay marriage and the price of cosmetic surgery.

An infant is a walking baby.
I put them very high on my priorities.
Higher than abortion.
Infants will be paying the debt we have run up.

So would the babies you killed, had you not killed them

Gotta love that line of thinking though: people only matter if we can exploit them

The debt is more important issue than abortion. Abortion is a non issue.

Homicide is never a non-issue

If Roe was overturned tomorrow don't you know that 70%+ of abortions STILL WOULD HAPPEN.

So you're saying criminalizing the act saved at lest one life?

 

[JBeukema]

Most abortions are simply birth control. The women that get those do not seek abortions if they are illegal. They get them because they're easy and they're told it's acceptable to get them. Quit telling girls and women that, and remove the ease with which they can get them, of course the numbers drop.

The flaw in this thinking is the concept that all women who get abortions are in desperate situations. They aren't. They just screwed up and don't want to deal with a pregnancy. It isn't even about the baby. It's the pregnancy. Cuz anyone can get rid of a baby once it's born.

I have to disagree with you, Allie

Reality agrees with her

Woman is concerned about how having a baby could change her life 16%
Woman can't afford baby now 21%
Woman has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood 12%
Woman is unready for responsibility 21%
Woman doesn't want others to know she has had sex or is pregnant 1%
Woman is not mature enough, or is too young to have a child 11%
Woman has all the children she wanted, or has all grown-up children 8%
Husband or partner wants woman to have an abortion 1%
Fetus has possible health problem 3%
Woman has health problem 3%
Woman's parents want her to have abortion <1%
Woman was victim of rape or incest 1%
Other 3%

(Totals do not add to 100% because of rounding.)

Why Women Have Abortions