Why do the God-haters persist?

[Youwerecreated]

You have never made an effort to support your silly claims to something you call "spiritual energy".

How does anyone disprove something you can't define, defend or offer any evidence for?

The "evidence" is physical nature and the universe. These exist. They didn't create themselves. You admit that something can't come from nothing. If physical nature can't create itself, and it does exist, and it did come to exist at some point, then the only thing that can explain it's coming to exist is spiritual nature.

No, I can't offer physical evidence of spiritual nature. I can give you plenty of spiritual evidence for spiritual nature, but you seem to want to reject that. What if I were demanding you present some spiritual evidence for physical nature? Could you provide that?

Why do you keep insisting that the universe was "created" from nothing? You do not know that. Based on this juvenile assumption you think you can claim the universe for your god or some spirit?

Hogwash.

Prove matter is eternal

 

[Youwerecreated]

and then there's this

I am no fan of organized religion either,your point ?

It isn't all about you.

tapatalk post

I am sorry my post went over your head. Never said it was about me. I am a believer and agree with Einstein.

 

[Montrovant]

The "evidence" is physical nature and the universe. These exist. They didn't create themselves. You admit that something can't come from nothing. If physical nature can't create itself, and it does exist, and it did come to exist at some point, then the only thing that can explain it's coming to exist is spiritual nature.

No, I can't offer physical evidence of spiritual nature. I can give you plenty of spiritual evidence for spiritual nature, but you seem to want to reject that. What if I were demanding you present some spiritual evidence for physical nature? Could you provide that?

How come when I watch these religious shows on this creepy christian tv channel tct I think it's called, why don't they explain this to us? How come all they ever say is jesus said this and jesus said that? So none of the billions of people that are christians, muslims or jews are teaching what you are saying. This is only your theory/concept, no? Or did you hear this from someone else? Did a preacher or minister or shaman teach learn you this?

You're conflating religion with spirituality. Religions were created to try and comprehend the spiritual connection man makes. They are proof that man does make a real connection with something greater than self, not of the physical world. But man is flawed, thus any religions he creates are also flawed.

You can certainly be spiritual and not be religious. For tens of thousands of years, humans were spiritual without religion. Your problem is, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. However, in speaking with you, I get the feeling you do believe there is something greater than self. You said you believed in Karma. Well, Karma is a spiritual concept, not physical.

It is very difficult for a human to completely reject all spirituality. We are intrinsically hard-wired to spiritually connect to something greater than self. This is why only about 12% of the population is able to make their claims of Atheism. I found it interesting, the survey they did in Denmark a while back. It's one of the most Atheistic countries on the planet with nearly 34% claiming Atheism. However, when asked specifically if they believed in absolutely no possibility of any kind of spiritual existence, only 13% would go that far.

And yet you feel confident that you, unlike most or all of the rest of humanity, does not have a flawed understanding of the spiritual connection you believe in.

Humans were spiritual without religion for tens of thousands of years? Which humans were these, and what is your evidence they were spiritual without religion? Perhaps I should ask you to define those two words first, since you so often seem to use your own personal definitions of things.

If humans are 'hard-wired' to connect to something greater than self, can you show the mechanism which accounts for this? Or, again, do I need to ask you to define hard-wired so that I can know what you are talking about?

Atheism has multiple definitions. Some consider it a rejection of all possibility of god, others simply not believing in any god.

 

[Hollie]

Don't understand what you think is a train wreck. It's really very simple. Spiritual nature created physical reality and physical nature. I can provide spiritual evidence for spiritual nature, or you can evaluate it yourself if you accept that spiritual nature exists. I've never said that I couldn't provide evidence, just that it's not physical evidence because spiritual nature isn't physical.

That's so silly. I must accept your "because I say so " claim is true in order to be able to evaluate your "because I say so " claim.

Clearly, there are no methods external or independent of the Cult of Spiritual Nature through which your cult's claims can be assessed. That is, the "grounds" for belief in the Cult of Spiritual Nature are dependent upon acceptance of supernatural processes that are not physically demonstrable but somehow "revealed" once one joins the cult.

You don't have to accept anything and it's not "because I say so" at all. You're clearly the cultist here. 88% of humans are spiritual and always have been. Spiritual nature isn't proved with physical nature just as physical nature isn't proved with spiritual. And it doesn't matter what we're talking about, it can't be proven to you if you don't believe it's real.

All I've tried to do is rationally show you that there has to be something more than physical nature because something caused physical nature to exist. You agree that something cannot come from nothing, and the physical didn't create itself. The only other possibilities remaining are metaphysical/spiritual or "magic" and apparently you believe in the later.

You have made the rational assessment that "because I say so", serves the naive and basically pointless aims of your argument.

You're really just a pedestrian "gods of the gap'ist". Like so many fundamentalists, you seize upon any gap in scientific knowledge as a place to jam your gods into. Spackling your inventions of spirit realms, gods and magical entities into gaps of knowledge only serves to promote your fears and superstitions.

 

[sealybobo]

You know what pushed me over the top? It was that all the people I knew that were/are overly religious had one thing in common. They all watch/love Fox News. That's when I realized how much the people who own America use religion to control the masses. Then I dug deeper and saw how the slave masters used it on their slaves. The Pharaoh's used it to control their slaves too. Weren't the jews slaves? Yea, I see a pattern here. And so why would I believe the modern day churches?

Religious people want to blow off the fact that the modern day churches may not be perfect, but they just blow that off and say that's human's not god. Well what were our ancestors? They were humans. They were not perfect. Do you not think they had corrupt rulers back then? Not possible religion was made up? I think it is obvious. It keeps the masses down. Imagine where we'd be without it. Maybe no one would be homeless or no one would ever go hungry. Capitalism uses religion to keep us ignorant. Corporations. The rich. The churches are all corrupt business'. They must know they are making it up as they go along. They have to. I wonder how many preachers/reverands/televangelists/rabbi's know its made up but make money doing it?

Yes, and that is why Boss's claim that spiritual beliefs are proof of spiritual reality is absurd.. In the past if a person refused to worship one god or another they and their entire families were killed which would result in a population of people either too feeble minded or too afraid to not worship one god or another which is not proof of anything except that some people will do anything to survive....

So he is too stupid or brainwashed to understand this but then tries to use logic and reasoning to prove god exists? Sorry boss, if you are too stupid to understand when and why men invented god then you are probably not smart enough to even be having this conversation. Similar to Gismys. That fool hasn't said one insightful thing. The only thing she ever says is "ONLY A FOOL WOULD DOUBT GOD...." but the fact is, only a fool would believe a stupid virgin priest in a robe who needs 10% of your earnings and tells you they can't provide proof, you have to have faith and if you don't you'll burn in hell. Fuck you priest.

 

[Hollie]

Grossly misquoting Einstein. First of all, he NEVER stated belief in God was childlike. He said his personal belief was like that of a child. A child is curious, naive, unknowing in their understanding of things. You've taken his words completely out of their context to make your erroneous point. The idea of an "anthropological" God is the idea of a human-like God. I respect that because it's also MY view of God. I can't take seriously the idea of a human-like invisible man sitting on a cloud with a Charleton Heston voice and long white beard. He NEVER said that he did not believe in God.

Yes, he categorically DID say that belief was childlike.
See my signature.
Stop making an ass of yourself.

People like you Einstein was angry with. Look at my signature.

It makes no difference if Einstein believed in one, many or no gods. His belief does nothing to support the existence of the Christian gods which he clearly identified.

 

[sealybobo]

How do you know it was not God ?

how do you know it was ? were you there?
(that one I took from your playbook)

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

You can assume but that doesn't make you right.

And there is no deliberate design. The earth was a hot ball of fire and no life could exist for billions of years. Finally life took hold but it got wiped out 4 times before. Life has evolved and adapted to live here on earth.

If god intelligently designed the earth he is not very intelligent.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

 

[sealybobo]

Grossly misquoting Einstein. First of all, he NEVER stated belief in God was childlike. He said his personal belief was like that of a child. A child is curious, naive, unknowing in their understanding of things. You've taken his words completely out of their context to make your erroneous point. The idea of an "anthropological" God is the idea of a human-like God. I respect that because it's also MY view of God. I can't take seriously the idea of a human-like invisible man sitting on a cloud with a Charleton Heston voice and long white beard. He NEVER said that he did not believe in God.

Yes, he categorically DID say that belief was childlike.
See my signature.
Stop making an ass of yourself.

People like you Einstein was angry with. Look at my signature.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

Sir Isaac Newton, one of history’s greatest scientists, was not only intensely religious but also believed in alchemical transmutation. Alchemy is, however, fully incorrect given our modern understanding of chemistry, the atom and nucleosynthysis.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[sealybobo]

How do you know it was not God ?

how do you know it was ? were you there?
(that one I took from your playbook)

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

The honest answer would be we just don't know. But to put god in the blanks where you don't know the answers is just stupid. 1000 years ago god did the thunder and lightening. Today we know that's not god. For thousands of years we said it must be god whenever we didn't know the answer. But every time we find an answer, it's never god. So god is getting smaller and smaller the more we know/learn.

This reminds me of the puddle of water. It filled up the hole perfectly. So the puddle of water says, "oh my god, look at how perfectly I fit in this hole. This hole must have been made for me, by a god.

This planet wasn't and isn't perfect. All animals have adapted/evolved to live here. If they live in the cold they developed thick skin. If they live in the hot desert they have darker skin. God didn't make black people dark so they could live in Africa. God didn't make Eskimo's thick skinned so they could live in the cold. The Eskemo's evolved over time to suit their environment.

 

[Boss]

How come when I watch these religious shows on this creepy christian tv channel tct I think it's called, why don't they explain this to us? How come all they ever say is jesus said this and jesus said that? So none of the billions of people that are christians, muslims or jews are teaching what you are saying. This is only your theory/concept, no? Or did you hear this from someone else? Did a preacher or minister or shaman teach learn you this?

You're conflating religion with spirituality. Religions were created to try and comprehend the spiritual connection man makes. They are proof that man does make a real connection with something greater than self, not of the physical world. But man is flawed, thus any religions he creates are also flawed.

You can certainly be spiritual and not be religious. For tens of thousands of years, humans were spiritual without religion. Your problem is, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. However, in speaking with you, I get the feeling you do believe there is something greater than self. You said you believed in Karma. Well, Karma is a spiritual concept, not physical.

It is very difficult for a human to completely reject all spirituality. We are intrinsically hard-wired to spiritually connect to something greater than self. This is why only about 12% of the population is able to make their claims of Atheism. I found it interesting, the survey they did in Denmark a while back. It's one of the most Atheistic countries on the planet with nearly 34% claiming Atheism. However, when asked specifically if they believed in absolutely no possibility of any kind of spiritual existence, only 13% would go that far.

And yet you feel confident that you, unlike most or all of the rest of humanity, does not have a flawed understanding of the spiritual connection you believe in.

Humans were spiritual without religion for tens of thousands of years? Which humans were these, and what is your evidence they were spiritual without religion? Perhaps I should ask you to define those two words first, since you so often seem to use your own personal definitions of things.

If humans are 'hard-wired' to connect to something greater than self, can you show the mechanism which accounts for this? Or, again, do I need to ask you to define hard-wired so that I can know what you are talking about?

Atheism has multiple definitions. Some consider it a rejection of all possibility of god, others simply not believing in any god.

This thread has over 4,100 posts. I can't imagine that I haven't already covered your questions several times. Is one more time going to do it? Let's see?

1. From the oldest human civilization we have ever unearthed, there is evidence of ritual ceremony and burial using red ochre. They weren't simply being "festive" here, the use of red ochre is well documented as part of human spiritual ritual.

2. These archeological findings predate any religion by at least 20k years or more. So long before any religion, humans were spiritually worshiping something.

3. Psychologists studying human behavior have determined that humans have an inherent inclination to be spiritual. Sigmund Freud noted (maybe from Voltaire), "If God did not exist, humans would have to invent Him." Simply meaning, we could not be humans without spirituality. It is ingrained in who we are as humans.

Yes, atheism has wide ranging definition... still... in the most atheistic country on the planet, the majority of atheists will not say there is no possibility of anything spiritual existing. I have argued that some Atheists I know of are bigger believers in God than some Christians I know.

 

[Boss]

The honest answer would be we just don't know.

But that's not what you've said all throughout this thread. You've claimed that you DO know, and that God doesn't exist, and that it's silly and stupid and uneducated to believe God does exist. So are you admitting here that you've been dishonest? Seems like it to me.

 

[Youwerecreated]

how do you know it was ? were you there?
(that one I took from your playbook)

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

You can assume but that doesn't make you right.

And there is no deliberate design. The earth was a hot ball of fire and no life could exist for billions of years. Finally life took hold but it got wiped out 4 times before. Life has evolved and adapted to live here on earth.

If god intelligently designed the earth he is not very intelligent.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

No one has all the answers and I am ok with that. Some of my views are gonna be wrong, I am sure of it ,but I don't have a problem with being corrected.

Some here think they have all the answers and mock others because their views are different. That is the very thing I have against organized religion when they force their doctrines on others and that goes for the science community not admitting some of their views being taught are views that are faith based and conjecture, not making that clear to the students.

 

[sealybobo]

The honest answer would be we just don't know.

But that's not what you've said all throughout this thread. You've claimed that you DO know, and that God doesn't exist, and that it's silly and stupid and uneducated to believe God does exist. So are you admitting here that you've been dishonest? Seems like it to me.

No, I'll say it again for you. Maybe it will sink in this time.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

This comes right from the website called Why there is no god

So atheists aren't saying they know anything Boss. YOU ARE. You don't know jack shit. You've been brainwashed like the rest of them.

If you take all the evidence the probability of there being a god is lesson than 1%. But us atheists will give you that. .000001% chance. Who knows what's on the other side of a black hole. Certainly not you.

Sorry sometimes when I call you names. It just makes me feel better. Do you know that swearing can actually over ride pain? Try it next time you bang your elbow or toe. Say FUCK! So the brain is an amazing thing Boss. Scientists are unlocking secrets every day. They have even determined that we made up god, not the other way around. Probably of course. No one is sure except for you bible thumpers, and on very very very shaky evidence.

 

[sealybobo]

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

You can assume but that doesn't make you right.

And there is no deliberate design. The earth was a hot ball of fire and no life could exist for billions of years. Finally life took hold but it got wiped out 4 times before. Life has evolved and adapted to live here on earth.

If god intelligently designed the earth he is not very intelligent.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

No one has all the answers and I am ok with that. Some of my views are gonna be wrong, I am sure of it ,but I don't have a problem with being corrected.

Some here think they have all the answers and mock others because their views are different. That is the very thing I have against organized religion when they force their doctrines on others and that goes for the science community not admitting some of their views being taught are views that are faith based and conjecture, not making that clear to the students.

Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination and Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Ignores and does not eliminate the fact that something can seem incredible or unlikely and still be true, or appear to be obvious or likely and yet still be false.

The world is the way it is. Reality does not bend to our personal whim and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Our personal belief in something does not automatically make it real or true and, conversely, our lack of understanding of a topic does not make it false.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

 

[Hollie]

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

You can assume but that doesn't make you right.

And there is no deliberate design. The earth was a hot ball of fire and no life could exist for billions of years. Finally life took hold but it got wiped out 4 times before. Life has evolved and adapted to live here on earth.

If god intelligently designed the earth he is not very intelligent.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

No one has all the answers and I am ok with that. Some of my views are gonna be wrong, I am sure of it ,but I don't have a problem with being corrected.

Some here think they have all the answers and mock others because their views are different. That is the very thing I have against organized religion when they force their doctrines on others and that goes for the science community not admitting some of their views being taught are views that are faith based and conjecture, not making that clear to the students.

What, exactly, in science is "faith based"? Be specific and provide relevant examples.


What, exactly, in science requires belief in unsupported dogma or consignment to everlasting torture?

 

[sealybobo]

You're conflating religion with spirituality. Religions were created to try and comprehend the spiritual connection man makes. They are proof that man does make a real connection with something greater than self, not of the physical world. But man is flawed, thus any religions he creates are also flawed.

You can certainly be spiritual and not be religious. For tens of thousands of years, humans were spiritual without religion. Your problem is, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. However, in speaking with you, I get the feeling you do believe there is something greater than self. You said you believed in Karma. Well, Karma is a spiritual concept, not physical.

It is very difficult for a human to completely reject all spirituality. We are intrinsically hard-wired to spiritually connect to something greater than self. This is why only about 12% of the population is able to make their claims of Atheism. I found it interesting, the survey they did in Denmark a while back. It's one of the most Atheistic countries on the planet with nearly 34% claiming Atheism. However, when asked specifically if they believed in absolutely no possibility of any kind of spiritual existence, only 13% would go that far.

And yet you feel confident that you, unlike most or all of the rest of humanity, does not have a flawed understanding of the spiritual connection you believe in.

Humans were spiritual without religion for tens of thousands of years? Which humans were these, and what is your evidence they were spiritual without religion? Perhaps I should ask you to define those two words first, since you so often seem to use your own personal definitions of things.

If humans are 'hard-wired' to connect to something greater than self, can you show the mechanism which accounts for this? Or, again, do I need to ask you to define hard-wired so that I can know what you are talking about?

Atheism has multiple definitions. Some consider it a rejection of all possibility of god, others simply not believing in any god.

This thread has over 4,100 posts. I can't imagine that I haven't already covered your questions several times. Is one more time going to do it? Let's see?

1. From the oldest human civilization we have ever unearthed, there is evidence of ritual ceremony and burial using red ochre. They weren't simply being "festive" here, the use of red ochre is well documented as part of human spiritual ritual.

2. These archeological findings predate any religion by at least 20k years or more. So long before any religion, humans were spiritually worshiping something.

3. Psychologists studying human behavior have determined that humans have an inherent inclination to be spiritual. Sigmund Freud noted (maybe from Voltaire), "If God did not exist, humans would have to invent Him." Simply meaning, we could not be humans without spirituality. It is ingrained in who we are as humans.

Yes, atheism has wide ranging definition... still... in the most atheistic country on the planet, the majority of atheists will not say there is no possibility of anything spiritual existing. I have argued that some Atheists I know of are bigger believers in God than some Christians I know.

How many times have I explained to you that Agnostic atheism is the most rational position yet you refuse to let it sink in.

My mom says the same thing you do. She says from the beginning of time men looked up and believed in god(s).

That's pretty deep but not enough proof to prove god exists. It's a point. We will give you that. Now Boss, what else do you have? Yes, you have drilled in two points that is for sure.

God is outside of the physical & men have always believed in god(s). We understand Boss. What else?

 

[sealybobo]

I can easily assume that everything in existence, didn't simply happen by chance and can see the deliberate design in nature.

What do you think when you look at nature and wonder how it could have possibly happened absent of a designer ?

You can assume but that doesn't make you right.

And there is no deliberate design. The earth was a hot ball of fire and no life could exist for billions of years. Finally life took hold but it got wiped out 4 times before. Life has evolved and adapted to live here on earth.

If god intelligently designed the earth he is not very intelligent.

“The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all species are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” – Richard Dawkins

No one has all the answers and I am ok with that. Some of my views are gonna be wrong, I am sure of it ,but I don't have a problem with being corrected.

Some here think they have all the answers and mock others because their views are different. That is the very thing I have against organized religion when they force their doctrines on others and that goes for the science community not admitting some of their views being taught are views that are faith based and conjecture, not making that clear to the students.

Darwin observed and described evolution the same way Newton did for gravity. It was simply a discovery of a fact about the world – not an engineered philosophy on how to behave.

 

[Boss]

The honest answer would be we just don't know.

But that's not what you've said all throughout this thread. You've claimed that you DO know, and that God doesn't exist, and that it's silly and stupid and uneducated to believe God does exist. So are you admitting here that you've been dishonest? Seems like it to me.

No, I'll say it again for you. Maybe it will sink in this time.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

This comes right from the website called [url removed]

So atheists aren't saying they know anything Boss. YOU ARE. You don't know jack shit. You've been brainwashed like the rest of them.

If you take all the evidence the probability of there being a god is lesson than 1%. But us atheists will give you that. .000001% chance. Who knows what's on the other side of a black hole. Certainly not you.

Sorry sometimes when I call you names. It just makes me feel better. Do you know that swearing can actually over ride pain? Try it next time you bang your elbow or toe. Say FUCK! So the brain is an amazing thing Boss. Scientists are unlocking secrets every day. They have even determined that we made up god, not the other way around. Probably of course. No one is sure except for you bible thumpers, and on very very very shaky evidence.

"The honest answer is we just don't know." ~You

There is your quote, yet what you are "explaining" to me is a profound disbelief in God... not that you "just don't know." I do find it cute that you claim to believe in Karma, a spiritual concept... and you repeatedly claim to be an "Agnostic Atheist" whatever the fuck that is supposed to be. It tells me that in your heart of hearts you do know there is a higher power.

You can make up fake statistics all day long, you can't show us science that has determined man invented spirituality. You can claim that, but you're simply lying. It can be your opinion, but it is baseless. What you've adopted is a faith-based disbelief.

Now, I am not the type of person who can accept things on blind faith. For me, I need evidence to believe anything. This is why I cannot be a Christian. That said, I do connect with a spiritual power greater than self on a daily basis. I've been doing this for most of my adult life and I have gained great benefit personally from that. To me, that is all the "evidence" I need to believe in God. I can't believe it's all in my head and a figment of imagination any more than you could believe that about your own mother if I were here saying it.

 

[sealybobo]

But that's not what you've said all throughout this thread. You've claimed that you DO know, and that God doesn't exist, and that it's silly and stupid and uneducated to believe God does exist. So are you admitting here that you've been dishonest? Seems like it to me.

No, I'll say it again for you. Maybe it will sink in this time.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

This comes right from the website called [url removed]

So atheists aren't saying they know anything Boss. YOU ARE. You don't know jack shit. You've been brainwashed like the rest of them.

If you take all the evidence the probability of there being a god is lesson than 1%. But us atheists will give you that. .000001% chance. Who knows what's on the other side of a black hole. Certainly not you.

Sorry sometimes when I call you names. It just makes me feel better. Do you know that swearing can actually over ride pain? Try it next time you bang your elbow or toe. Say FUCK! So the brain is an amazing thing Boss. Scientists are unlocking secrets every day. They have even determined that we made up god, not the other way around. Probably of course. No one is sure except for you bible thumpers, and on very very very shaky evidence.

"The honest answer is we just don't know." ~You

There is your quote, yet what you are "explaining" to me is a profound disbelief in God... not that you "just don't know." I do find it cute that you claim to believe in Karma, a spiritual concept... and you repeatedly claim to be an "Agnostic Atheist" whatever the fuck that is supposed to be. It tells me that in your heart of hearts you do know there is a higher power.

You can make up fake statistics all day long, you can't show us science that has determined man invented spirituality. You can claim that, but you're simply lying. It can be your opinion, but it is baseless. What you've adopted is a faith-based disbelief.

Now, I am not the type of person who can accept things on blind faith. For me, I need evidence to believe anything. This is why I cannot be a Christian. That said, I do connect with a spiritual power greater than self on a daily basis. I've been doing this for most of my adult life and I have gained great benefit personally from that. To me, that is all the "evidence" I need to believe in God. I can't believe it's all in my head and a figment of imagination any more than you could believe that about your own mother if I were here saying it.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims.

You are right, like you, I don't know if there is a god or not.

What it should tell you is that in my mind I know there is no god and in your heart you want there to be a god.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

You have no evidence.

I can’t believe/understand a world without God OR No god is too unlikely.

Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination and Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Ignores and does not eliminate the fact that something can seem incredible or unlikely and still be true, or appear to be obvious or likely and yet still be false.

The world is the way it is. Reality does not bend to our personal whim and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Our personal belief in something does not automatically make it real or true and, conversely, our lack of understanding of a topic does not make it false.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

 

[sealybobo]

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” – Carl Sagan

“God is an ever-receding pocket of ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson