Why is wanting to keep what you earned greed, but wanting what you didn't earn isn't?

[martybegan]

Oh bullshit.

The 10th is a catchall..the Constitution is supreme.

And it's in the preamble and the first clause of the powers of congress to provide for the general welfare.

You guys want to make a case for "exact words"? Well we wouldn't have a standing army. Since the Constitution provides for a temporary one made up of militias.

Seems you went for the more "general" interpretation of that one.

It is a 'catchall' to catch the fed trying to take power it is not specifically granted.. the wording is QUITE clear

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And perhaps you should read again on the Army

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Militia and Army and Navy are listed as and treated as different things.. and monies are appropriated YEARLY...

Go back to school

Perhaps you should read what you post.

and if you actually knew how they did it, congress NEVER authorizes defense appropriations for the army for more than two years, which is why defense bills come up so often.

This does not impact things like say Obamacare, which have much longer funding periods for each item.

Try to be a bit smarter next time.

 

[Oddball]

Not wanting to contribute to the society that you benefit from is greed

right.. so those that pay no federal income tax while earning any income are greedy....

How true.....those 40% of Americans who share only 2 tenths of a percent of our wealth are being greedy

Call the waaaaaaaambulance.

BTW, wealth isn't distributed, it is earned and accumulated.

 

[DiamondDave]

It is a 'catchall' to catch the fed trying to take power it is not specifically granted.. the wording is QUITE clear

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

And perhaps you should read again on the Army

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Militia and Army and Navy are listed as and treated as different things.. and monies are appropriated YEARLY...

Go back to school

Perhaps you should read what you post.

and if you actually knew how they did it, congress NEVER authorizes defense appropriations for the army for more than two years, which is why defense bills come up so often.

This does not impact things like say Obamacare, which have much longer funding periods for each item.

Try to be a bit smarter next time.

BINGO

Well said

 

[DiamondDave]

Thanks for all that, its not what I asked for though.


Can you please show me the court ruling where it was determined that welfare and unemployment benefits are prohibited by the 10th amendment to the Constitution?

The court has no constitutionally provided power to do such a thing.. AS SHOWN BY THE POWERS GRANTED IN THE CONSTITUTION

The court has no power to determine the Constitutionality of a law? lol! What civics class did you take that teaches this?

To have the power, the fed would have to have it specifically enumerated.. It is not (and please, no leaving off the text after the word "welfare" from article 1 section 8)... the 10th amendment then reserves all other powers that are not specifically granted to the fed to the states and/or the people..

It is specifically enumerated in Article I Section 8 Clause 1.

You state the power is granted.. Just show the text that says so... it is NOT granted.. it is a power that the court took upon itself.. Against the powers granted

It is not specifically enumerated.. perhaps you should fucking realize that there are fucking things written after the fucking word WELFARE in article 1 section 8....

c'mon.. show us WHERE it is granted...

Article III - The Judicial Branch

Section 1 - Judicial powers

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

(The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.) (This section in parentheses is modified by the 11th Amendment.)

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Section 3 - Treason Note

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment 7 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment 11 - Judicial Limits. Ratified 2/7/1795. Note History

The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

right.. so those that pay no federal income tax while earning any income are greedy....

How true.....those 40% of Americans who share only 2 tenths of a percent of our wealth are being greedy

Call the waaaaaaaambulance.

BTW, wealth isn't distributed, it is earned and accumulated.

Wealth is distributed, earned, unearned, accumulated, lost. It can be all those things. Stop being so simple minded.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Why are those who work for a living penalized, and those who don't rewarded?

You're living in the wrong country if you consider taxes to be a penalty.

You should consider it a privilege to live in such a great country, but nope...you see it as being penalized. Perhaps it's time you looked for another country that has no taxation and is more to your liking.

Taxes used to support legitimate functions of the Government is fine and supported.

Taxes used to support non-legitimate functions such as 99 weeks of unemployment and welfare.. Please show me where those are listed in the Constitution as functions of the Federal Government. Please don't embarrass yourself and say "The General Welfare Clause"...

Bet they are right beside the constitutional clauses providing for corporate welfare aka voodoo economics aka ReagaNUTics.

 

[Oddball]

You're living in the wrong country if you consider taxes to be a penalty.

You should consider it a privilege to live in such a great country, but nope...you see it as being penalized. Perhaps it's time you looked for another country that has no taxation and is more to your liking.

Taxes used to support legitimate functions of the Government is fine and supported.

Taxes used to support non-legitimate functions such as 99 weeks of unemployment and welfare.. Please show me where those are listed in the Constitution as functions of the Federal Government. Please don't embarrass yourself and say "The General Welfare Clause"...

I bet they are right beside the constitutional clauses providing for corporate welfare aka voodoo economics aka ReagaNUTics.

You'd lose that bet, Dudley.

 

[DiamondDave]

You're living in the wrong country if you consider taxes to be a penalty.

You should consider it a privilege to live in such a great country, but nope...you see it as being penalized. Perhaps it's time you looked for another country that has no taxation and is more to your liking.

Taxes used to support legitimate functions of the Government is fine and supported.

Taxes used to support non-legitimate functions such as 99 weeks of unemployment and welfare.. Please show me where those are listed in the Constitution as functions of the Federal Government. Please don't embarrass yourself and say "The General Welfare Clause"...

Bet they are right beside the constitutional clauses providing for corporate welfare aka voodoo economics aka ReagaNUTics.

You think we support or want corporate welfare??

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The court has no constitutionally provided power to do such a thing.. AS SHOWN BY THE POWERS GRANTED IN THE CONSTITUTION

The court has no power to determine the Constitutionality of a law? lol! What civics class did you take that teaches this?

To have the power, the fed would have to have it specifically enumerated.. It is not (and please, no leaving off the text after the word "welfare" from article 1 section 8)... the 10th amendment then reserves all other powers that are not specifically granted to the fed to the states and/or the people..

It is specifically enumerated in Article I Section 8 Clause 1.

You state the power is granted.. Just show the text that says so... it is NOT granted.. it is a power that the court took upon itself.. Against the powers granted

Well that's your opinion - but your opinion isn't the one that matters. Can you show me an opinion that does matter that supports your position?

It is not specifically enumerated.. perhaps you should fucking realize that there are fucking things written after the fucking word WELFARE in article 1 section 8....

There are words after the word welfare. Well done, you're an astute observer.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Taxes used to support legitimate functions of the Government is fine and supported.

Taxes used to support non-legitimate functions such as 99 weeks of unemployment and welfare.. Please show me where those are listed in the Constitution as functions of the Federal Government. Please don't embarrass yourself and say "The General Welfare Clause"...

Bet they are right beside the constitutional clauses providing for corporate welfare aka voodoo economics aka ReagaNUTics.

You think we support or want corporate welfare??

Reagan gave more tax breaks to corporations than Roosevelt.

Do the math.

 

[DiamondDave]

The court has no power to determine the Constitutionality of a law? lol! What civics class did you take that teaches this?


It is specifically enumerated in Article I Section 8 Clause 1.

You state the power is granted.. Just show the text that says so... it is NOT granted.. it is a power that the court took upon itself.. Against the powers granted

Well that's your opinion - but your opinion isn't the one that matters. Can you show me an opinion that does matter that supports your position?

It is not specifically enumerated.. perhaps you should fucking realize that there are fucking things written after the fucking word WELFARE in article 1 section 8....

There are words after the word welfare. Well done, you're an astute observer.

No.. it is not an opinion.. it is a simple read of the ACTUAL FUCKING TEXT

I presented you the actual text of the powers granted.. and the actual text showing that things not empowered are then reserved to the states and/or the people...

You have shown NOTHING

And the words after welfare HAVE MEANING and put it into context....

Idiot

 

[DiamondDave]

Bet they are right beside the constitutional clauses providing for corporate welfare aka voodoo economics aka ReagaNUTics.

You think we support or want corporate welfare??

Reagan gave more tax breaks to corporations than Roosevelt.

Do the math.

Don't care.. I do not support corporate welfare no matter if Reagan gave 'tax breaks' or not... I do not live and die by Reagan, nor do I think he was 100% right

And BTW, a tax break is not an entitlement or welfare... a bailout or a subsidy is welfare.. and it is much different than lowering the tax rate

 

[Sallow]

perhaps you should realize that it is in REFERENCE TO THE MONEY

Punctuation and context actually MEANS SOMETHING

No money, no army davey.

That was the intention.

A temporary army to deal with invasions or insurrection.

The navy has no such restriction.

Are you that dense??

We allocate money YEARLY.. not bi-yearly.. not every 4 years

Idiot

The armies and the militia are mentioned SEPARATELY..

Learn English

And that money is supposed to be voted on.

There is no such restriction on the navy..the constitution provides for a permanent navy.

The whole idea of militas was to make the process of land defense, entirely voluntary.

Hence the second amendment. Citizens EXPECTED to be able to defend the country. We were never meant to have a professional army. The Continental army was disbanded after the revolution.

The idea was..no war..no army.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You state the power is granted.. Just show the text that says so... it is NOT granted.. it is a power that the court took upon itself.. Against the powers granted

Well that's your opinion - but your opinion isn't the one that matters. Can you show me an opinion that does matter that supports your position?

It is not specifically enumerated.. perhaps you should fucking realize that there are fucking things written after the fucking word WELFARE in article 1 section 8....

There are words after the word welfare. Well done, you're an astute observer.

No.. it is not an opinion.. it is a simple read of the ACTUAL FUCKING TEXT

That's your opinion as well. It still doesn't matter.

I presented you the actual text of the powers granted.. and the actual text showing that things not empowered are then reserved to the states and/or the people...

You have shown NOTHING

And the words after welfare HAVE MEANING and put it into context....

Idiot

U.S. v Butler 1936

 

[DiamondDave]

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to collect taxes, raise money, etc... pretty self explanatory

To pay the debts and provide for the defense and general welfare OF THE UNITED STATES... the union... when the 'people' 'persons' or 'citizens' are meant in the constitution, those words are used.... this is to provide for the UNION...

next phrase after the semi colon... explains that it shall be equal...

then.. GET THIS.. MORE PUNCTUATION.. to SHOW the LIST of things that it is SPECIFICALLY supposed to be used for.... You notice things did not end with a FUCKING PERIOD.....

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Nope. nothing in there about taking care of people's personal needs.. nothing in there about personal entitlements or insurance.. nothing in there for a catch all safety net or safety hammock...

Then the 10th amendment limits the federal government to the specific granted powers and reserves all other powers for the states and/or the people.. NOTICE THE USE OF THE WORD PEOPLE... THEY USE IT WHEN THEY MEAN IT

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Game
Set
Match
Championship

 

[Sallow]

You think we support or want corporate welfare??

Reagan gave more tax breaks to corporations than Roosevelt.

Do the math.

Don't care.. I do not support corporate welfare no matter if Reagan gave 'tax breaks' or not... I do not live and die by Reagan, nor do I think he was 100% right

And BTW, a tax break is not an entitlement or welfare... a bailout or a subsidy is welfare.. and it is much different than lowering the tax rate

Tax breaks on corporations are the exact same thing as welfare. And the exact same thing as an entitlement.

Corporations make far more use of infrastructure, the justice system and a plethora of other goodies that a funded by citizens then the citizens who fund them.

In other words..they are getting a free ride where none is deserved.

 

[DiamondDave]

No money, no army davey.

That was the intention.

A temporary army to deal with invasions or insurrection.

The navy has no such restriction.

Are you that dense??

We allocate money YEARLY.. not bi-yearly.. not every 4 years

Idiot

The armies and the militia are mentioned SEPARATELY..

Learn English

And that money is supposed to be voted on.

There is no such restriction on the navy..the constitution provides for a permanent navy.

The whole idea of militas was to make the process of land defense, entirely voluntary.

Hence the second amendment. Citizens EXPECTED to be able to defend the country. We were never meant to have a professional army. The Continental army was disbanded after the revolution.

The idea was..no war..no army.

No.. it does not say the money is to be 'voted on'... please show where this is stated.... it says APPROPRIATED

Again.. militia and armies are mentioned SEPARATELY.. they are indeed 2 separate things

You may argue that you don't believe in the size of the army... you may even argue about having the 'militia' known as the national guard under federal command is a good thing... but your argument on this is flat out 100% wrong

 

[DiamondDave]

Reagan gave more tax breaks to corporations than Roosevelt.

Do the math.

Don't care.. I do not support corporate welfare no matter if Reagan gave 'tax breaks' or not... I do not live and die by Reagan, nor do I think he was 100% right

And BTW, a tax break is not an entitlement or welfare... a bailout or a subsidy is welfare.. and it is much different than lowering the tax rate

Tax breaks on corporations are the exact same thing as welfare. And the exact same thing as an entitlement.

Corporations make far more use of infrastructure, the justice system and a plethora of other goodies that a funded by citizens then the citizens who fund them.

In other words..they are getting a free ride where none is deserved.

No.. they are not...

Taking less in taxation is not the same as handing out funds from the government... the earnings do not belong to the government

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to collect taxes, raise money, etc... pretty self explanatory

To pay the debts and provide for the defense and general welfare OF THE UNITED STATES... the union... when the 'people' 'persons' or 'citizens' are meant in the constitution, those words are used.... this is to provide for the UNION...

next phrase after the semi colon... explains that it shall be equal...

then.. GET THIS.. MORE PUNCTUATION.. to SHOW the LIST of things that it is SPECIFICALLY supposed to be used for.... You notice things did not end with a FUCKING PERIOD.....

The list begins with the first thing mentioned after "Congress shall have the power". Each power is distinct and stands on its own. Including the first clause.

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Nope. nothing in there about taking care of people's personal needs.. nothing in there about personal entitlements or insurance.. nothing in there for a catch all safety net or safety hammock...

Then the 10th amendment limits the federal government to the specific granted powers and reserves all other powers for the states and/or the people.. NOTICE THE USE OF THE WORD PEOPLE... THEY USE IT WHEN THEY MEAN IT

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

All you did was take the list of enumerated powers and remove the first one because you don't like it.

Game
Set
Match
Championship

That's nice you think that and all but your opinion carries no legal weight whatsoever. In our system, when a citizen disputes the meaning of the Constitution with the government, the courts settle the issue, not DiamondDave. Are you aware this is how it works?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Reagan gave more tax breaks to corporations than Roosevelt.

Do the math.

Don't care.. I do not support corporate welfare no matter if Reagan gave 'tax breaks' or not... I do not live and die by Reagan, nor do I think he was 100% right

And BTW, a tax break is not an entitlement or welfare... a bailout or a subsidy is welfare.. and it is much different than lowering the tax rate

Tax breaks on corporations are the exact same thing as welfare. And the exact same thing as an entitlement.

Corporations make far more use of infrastructure, the justice system and a plethora of other goodies that a funded by citizens then the citizens who fund them.

In other words..they are getting a free ride where none is deserved.

See? the government owns all the wealth/money and they will let you know how much you can have.

Like I said before, these turds do not believe in self ownership or private property.