Why should a hamburger flipper make the same as a highly skilled worker???

[Soggy in NOLA]

From Matt Walsh Blog on the Blaze....
I've excerpted a few paragraphs but there is so much more that the entire blog should be read!

Dear fast food workers,

It’s come to my attention that many of you, supposedly in 230 cities across the country, are walking out of your jobs today and protesting for $15 an hour. You earnestly believe — indeed, you’ve been led to this conclusion by pandering politicians and liberal pundits who possess neither the slightest grasp of the basic rules of economics nor even the faintest hint of integrity — that your entry level gig pushing buttons on a cash register at Taco Bell ought to earn you double the current federal minimum wage.

I’m aware, of course, that not all of you feel this way. Many of you might consider your position as Whopper Assembler to be rather a temporary situation, not a career path, and you plan on moving on and up not by holding a poster board with “Give me more money!” scrawled across it, but by working hard and being reliable. To be clear, I am not addressing the folks in this latter camp. They are doing what needs to be done, and I respect that.

Instead, I want to talk to those of you who actually consider yourselves entitled to close to a $29 thousand a year full time salary for doing a job that requires no skill, no expertise, and no education;
those who think a fry cook ought to earn an entry level income similar to a dental assistant;
those who insist the guy putting the lettuce on my Big Mac ought to make more than the Emergency Medical Technician who saves lives for a living; those who believe you should automatically be able to “live comfortably,” as if “comfort” is a human right.

To those in this category, I have a few things I need to say, for your own sake:

First, let me start with a story. It’s anecdotal, obviously, but then this whole #FightFor15 “movement” is based entirely on anecdotes.

I submit mine: I’m 28 years old now. I started working when I was about 15. I did hourly, customer service-type stuff at grocery stores, snowball stands, and pizza places, never making much more than the bare minimum at any of them.

When I was 20 I moved out of the house and got my first job in radio. Starting out as a rock DJ in Delaware, I made $17,000 a year, or about $8 an hour. I lived off of that, earning a few small raises through the years — having to eat fewer meals, buy fewer things, and, God forbid, even forgo cable and internet access in my apartment — right up to when I got married at 25.

Fast Food Workers You Don t Deserve 15 an Hour to Flip Burgers and That s OK TheBlaze.com

Because the only reason they are flipping hamburgers is some rich jack shit decided to discriminate against them and prevent them from getting a good job, but for some reason the trained workers was liked by the rich bastard who owns his company and he decided not to discriminate against them.

Don't you know everyone wants to succeed and it's just a question whether the wealthy and the corporations allow us to?

You are aware of the Jews controlling the international financial community, aren't you? You do know that basics of the world?

Awesome!! You and NOLA ought to open a strawman factory. You'll make a killing!

LOL, another skill we know you don't have, detecting obvious sarcasm. So far the skill list you do have remains empty

I think he knows what utter bullshit his argument is, but he'll never come out and say what he really wants which is the state dictating his way of life.

 

[Asclepias]

If it changes expect the the prices to go up. If the prices go up people will stop buying. If people stop buying then businesses will close. If businesses close then people will lose their jobs. I would support welfare for those that dont make a living wage as long as they are working to make themselves more valuable.

That's the "common sense" approach that I mentioned. Your chain of events doesn't happen when the minimum wage is raised. It's a fantasy that seems like it makes sense. Check the facts.

I bet if the minimum wage is raised higher than the value of your labor then it will make sense.

You speak as if there is some fixed value of ones labor and that everyone naturally gets paid that value.....no less and no more. It's a weird thing to consider.

There is a fixed value. No not everyone gets paid that because they will accept less just to have a job. Think of it like this. If your company made a product that sold at the rate of $10 an hour would you pay someone $15 an hour to make it? Thats a very simplistic example but it makes the point.

It doesn't make the point. It's way too simplistic and as such...is meaningless. Try another.

You can make it as difficult as you want in your mind but the point is no one is going to pay a worker more than they can afford and still stay in business. If your wages are eating into my profits I'm in business for nothing. My entire point of going into business is to make more money. Its not to pay someone a living wage.

 

[Silhouette]

Why are highly-skilled workers only getting $15 an hour is the better question. I did the math on actual survival once, using very conservative figures for a monthly mortgage, clothes, food, insurance, health insurance and transportation. This hypothetical person has no drug or drinking addictions, isn't a gambler, is chaste as your Aunt Betsy and even goes to church. He's just trying to get by. Just the very basline basics. I found that even at $20/hour a person would be nearly working themselves to death, after taxes (actual take home to make ends meet month to month) and just treading water. Forget about savings. Forget about vacations besides a trip to the County Lake. This person would still have to be receiving some kind of dole, some subsidy, some handout in order to "be a good citizen and consumer".

Then the corporations who pay these people such miserable wages, gnash their teeth at falling profits and sinking demand. Especially high-end products like expensive electronic gadgets, lavish vacations or any other ornamental industry that isn't part of the necessities of life. These people are coached by their buddies the rich and up and coming CEOs to hate people on the dole. But the dole is the only thing keeping their company running in the form of enabled-consuming.

The failure of this country's economy is quite simply the failure of our economists to sit down and do the elementary school level math of an average Joe's monthly income after taxes vs his outlay and what is left over at the end of the month. People at the top of any industry here are just flat-out too greedy. They want a string of six ponies for every child they have and all of those ponies have to be living in marble stalls with their own gold-plated troughs. There aren't enough super-rich in this country to justify a gold-plated trough factory, so they all have to be hand made in France, where socialized programs make it possible for artisan industries and new startups to thrive and survive.

 

[Asclepias]

No one is really attempting to make that argument. The argument is, and has always been, that successful employers who make enough money to do all the things you speak of, and more, should not rely on taxpayers to subsidize the businesses that allow those employers to live so luxuriously. If they are really deserving business owners they should not rely on that taxpayer subsidized work force. Especially when competitors are able to pay better wages, not depend on that tax payer money. The low wages paid to workers just turns out to be a simple act of basic greed by the business owner.

Your term deserving business owner says it all... If I start a business, I deserve it.

not really, it's a work thing...

Oh, really? Then if I buy a car I don't necessarily deserve it? Is that a work thing?

Where do you moonbats get these fucked up ideas? No wonder you're obsessed with McDonalds.

Deserve and possession is two different emotional issues..

No, no they are not. Simply put, I deserve whatever I rightfully own.

Are you drunk?

No you dont always deserve what you own. Lots of people own things someone else worked for.

 

[Camp]

Because there is no reason someone working 40 hours/week should be struggling to make ends meet.

The assumption made in this article is that they are living high off the hog. That is simply not the case.

Not to mention people who learn a skill are not paid well as indicated in the article. People deserve to be able to survive when they work 40 hours/week. Home healthcare workers learned a skill yet are paid $9/hour at best.

I also find it ironic is the Republican party talk about the "dignity of work" when passing laws to restrict government assistance. Then when workers want to get a wage that would help them survive by working, Republicans are strictly oppose to it.

So how is their dignity to work if no matter how hard they work, they will never get by?

You know, you're right.... if you work 40 hours a week you should make at least enough to buy a new car every year, go to Disney World, eat out 5 nights a week, have 3 MK suits, own a $250,000 home, a housekeeper and a yard guy... oh, and a swimming pool and a pool guy.

No one is really attempting to make that argument. The argument is, and has always been, that successful employers who make enough money to do all the things you speak of, and more, should not rely on taxpayers to subsidize the businesses that allow those employers to live so luxuriously. If they are really deserving business owners they should not rely on that taxpayer subsidized work force. Especially when competitors are able to pay better wages, not depend on that tax payer money. The low wages paid to workers just turns out to be a simple act of basic greed by the business owner.

Your term deserving business owner says it all... If I start a business, I deserve it.

Wrong. Deserving business owners don't need the handouts so many of them demand and beg for. The undeserving ones are many of the 70% failed businesses come from. Your response shows how screwed up the rw rich and their supporters can be. You think you deserve the road and opportunity to success. Some kind of birthright or imaginary thing going on there. Like you are part of some kind of aristocracy? Explain what makes you so special.

 

[Asclepias]

Why are highly-skilled workers only getting $15 an hour is the better question. I did the math on actual survival once, using very conservative figures for a monthly mortgage, clothes, food, insurance, health insurance and transportation. This hypothetical person has no drug or drinking addictions, isn't a gambler, is chaste as your Aunt Betsy and even goes to church. He's just trying to get by. Just the very basline basics. I found that even at $20/hour a person would be nearly working themselves to death, after taxes (actual take home to make ends meet month to month) and just treading water. Forget about savings. Forget about vacations besides a trip to the County Lake. This person would still have to be receiving some kind of dole, some subsidy, some handout in order to "be a good citizen and consumer".

Then the corporations who pay these people such miserable wages, gnash their teeth at falling profits and sinking demand. Especially high-end products like expensive electronic gadgets, lavish vacations or any other ornamental industry that isn't part of the necessities of life.

The failure of this country's economy is quite simply the failure of our economists to sit down and do the elementary school level math of an average Joe's monthly income after taxes vs his outlay and what is left over at the end of the month. People at the top of any industry here are just flat-out too greedy. They want a string of six ponies for every child they have and all of those ponies have to be living in marble stalls with their own gold-plated troughs. There aren't enough super-rich in this country to justify a gold-plated trough factory, so they all have to be hand made in France, where socialized programs make it possible for artisan industries and new startups to thrive and survive.

Credit debt is the end game.

 

[JFK_USA]

If it changes expect the the prices to go up. If the prices go up people will stop buying. If people stop buying then businesses will close. If businesses close then people will lose their jobs. I would support welfare for those that dont make a living wage as long as they are working to make themselves more valuable.

That's the "common sense" approach that I mentioned. Your chain of events doesn't happen when the minimum wage is raised. It's a fantasy that seems like it makes sense. Check the facts.

I bet if the minimum wage is raised higher than the value of your labor then it will make sense.

You speak as if there is some fixed value of ones labor and that everyone naturally gets paid that value.....no less and no more. It's a weird thing to consider.

There is a fixed value. No not everyone gets paid that because they will accept less just to have a job. Think of it like this. If your company made a product that sold at the rate of $10 an hour would you pay someone $15 an hour to make it? Thats a very simplistic example but it makes the point.

It doesn't make the point. It's way too simplistic and as such...is meaningless. Try another.

This "free market" Bullshit is just that.

If Walmart says we will pay $1/hr, they can hold out for as long as it takes to get 1 person to accept the job. Then POOF that's the market. But it fails to realize the massive inequality of the bargaining power of Walmart v. poor person.

It is up to the government to set the rules.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"Report: CEOs Earn 331 Times As Much As Average Workers, 774 Times As Much As Minimum Wage Earners. With CEO compensation analysis season in full swing, the AFL-CIO released data this morning stating that American CEOs in 2013 earned an average of $11.7 million–an eye-popping 331 times the average worker's$35,293"

Report CEOs Earn 331 Times As Much As Average Workers 774 Times As Much As Minimum Wage Earners - Forbes

A hamburger worker should not make the same as a "highly skilled worker". Asking such a question is the product of a troll. There are many skilled workers and even they are under assault by demagogues who argue for Right to Work laws, a euphemism for Union Busting, cutting wages and benefits and increasing profits - benefiting the stock holders and giving CEO's, CFO's and other executives more stock, more salary and greater benefits.

Using the Supreme Courts 5-4 decision making Money in Politics = to freedom of speech allows those with the gold to make the rules so much easier, and anonymously.

Demagogues appeal to the worst of us, those who blame the worker for the cost of goods and services, or the government for regulations, and not the greed, once a deadly sin and today reformed by the conservative movement into a virtue.

Remember when you could return a craftsman screwdriver which was used as a pry tool and bent into a 'U' and Sears would replace it free? When tools not made in America were considered knuckle busters - and still are? When service stations filled your tank, checked the tire and oil and washed the bugs of the windshield?

All of this and more disappeared from our nations landscape when business focused entirely on profit, and forgot how profit related to customer service and satisfaction.

 

[Camp]

CEO's? They don't do shit, they make millions sitting around all day

They real workers who deserve millions are the dumb fucks that need 4 of them to figure out how to change a light bulb

It's a give-take relationship, yet CEO's earn millions even if the company losses money....Employees, not so much..Both need each other to operate and produce product...

Yeah, because there is a vast pool of people out there that can run a company... burger flippers? They are a dime-a-dozen.

There is a vast pool of people that can run companies. We actually have a system for picking our business leaders that sucks. That is a major problem we have in this country. We have a selection process for business leaders that is based on corruption that allows the privileged opportunities not afforded to the less privileged. That is one of the reasons over 70% of news businesses fail and end up costing everyone from creditors to taxpayers. The dime a dozen people you seem dependent on looking down on contain many highly qualified and fine people who are forced to maintain themselves in their low paying job because their priorities are restricted to the immediate needs of their families and the weekly paycheck that is so important to those who in fact live paycheck to paycheck.

NO there isn't!
Obviously you've NEVER been a CEO much less what it takes to "run" a company.
Do you know what the term "medical liability ratio"? Do you understand what "Safe Harbor--(nothing to do with water by the way...)" means in a public company? How about the acronym "EBIT" any idea what those terms mean?
You think the average worker knows what these terms...much less how to make decisions based on the meanings?

Yes there are. There are over a dozen agencies in New York alone that specialize in providing or recruiting executives, including CEO's. They get paid by the companies searching for the executives and the executives seeking employment. Just because the average worker can't be a CEO doesn't mean crap. The average CEO can't repair his car or his roof. Persons abilities or intellect doesn't make them a better person than another person.

 

[LeftofLeft]

CEO's? They don't do shit, they make millions sitting around all day

They real workers who deserve millions are the dumb fucks that need 4 of them to figure out how to change a light bulb

Now we are talking..... A cushy CEO job. That's what I need to get me one of those where I can sit around making millions without accountability. Where is a CEO job without accountability?

Sales are down - CEO
Lost market share - CEO
Lawsuit - CEO
Failed expansion or company venture - CEO
STOCK PRICE DOWN - CEO

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

CEO's? They don't do shit, they make millions sitting around all day

They real workers who deserve millions are the dumb fucks that need 4 of them to figure out how to change a light bulb

It's a give-take relationship, yet CEO's earn millions even if the company losses money....Employees, not so much..Both need each other to operate and produce product...

Yeah, because there is a vast pool of people out there that can run a company... burger flippers? They are a dime-a-dozen.

There is a vast pool of people that can run companies. We actually have a system for picking our business leaders that sucks. That is a major problem we have in this country. We have a selection process for business leaders that is based on corruption that allows the privileged opportunities not afforded to the less privileged. That is one of the reasons over 70% of news businesses fail and end up costing everyone from creditors to taxpayers. The dime a dozen people you seem dependent on looking down on contain many highly qualified and fine people who are forced to maintain themselves in their low paying job because their priorities are restricted to the immediate needs of their families and the weekly paycheck that is so important to those who in fact live paycheck to paycheck.

NO there isn't!
Obviously you've NEVER been a CEO much less what it takes to "run" a company.
Do you know what the term "medical liability ratio"? Do you understand what "Safe Harbor--(nothing to do with water by the way...)" means in a public company? How about the acronym "EBIT" any idea what those terms mean?
You think the average worker knows what these terms...much less how to make decisions based on the meanings?

No, no they don't. They think a manager or a CEO for that matter sits in a huge corner office, comes in around 9, does the 3 martini lunch from 11 - 2 and leaves in his limo at 4.

Believe me, running a 30 person company requires 50+ hours a week.. I can't imagine what running a company employing thousands takes.

These folks are clueless.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Your term deserving business owner says it all... If I start a business, I deserve it.

not really, it's a work thing...

Oh, really? Then if I buy a car I don't necessarily deserve it? Is that a work thing?

Where do you moonbats get these fucked up ideas? No wonder you're obsessed with McDonalds.

Deserve and possession is two different emotional issues..

No, no they are not. Simply put, I deserve whatever I rightfully own.

Are you drunk?

No you dont always deserve what you own. Lots of people own things someone else worked for.

Who teaches you this kind of stupid shit? I mean seriously, do you actually believe this retarded shit?

 

[healthmyths]

CEO's? They don't do shit, they make millions sitting around all day

They real workers who deserve millions are the dumb fucks that need 4 of them to figure out how to change a light bulb

It's a give-take relationship, yet CEO's earn millions even if the company losses money....Employees, not so much..Both need each other to operate and produce product...

Yeah, because there is a vast pool of people out there that can run a company... burger flippers? They are a dime-a-dozen.

There is a vast pool of people that can run companies. We actually have a system for picking our business leaders that sucks. That is a major problem we have in this country. We have a selection process for business leaders that is based on corruption that allows the privileged opportunities not afforded to the less privileged. That is one of the reasons over 70% of news businesses fail and end up costing everyone from creditors to taxpayers. The dime a dozen people you seem dependent on looking down on contain many highly qualified and fine people who are forced to maintain themselves in their low paying job because their priorities are restricted to the immediate needs of their families and the weekly paycheck that is so important to those who in fact live paycheck to paycheck.

NO there isn't!
Obviously you've NEVER been a CEO much less what it takes to "run" a company.
Do you know what the term "medical liability ratio"? Do you understand what "Safe Harbor--(nothing to do with water by the way...)" means in a public company? How about the acronym "EBIT" any idea what those terms mean?
You think the average worker knows what these terms...much less how to make decisions based on the meanings?

Yes there are. There are over a dozen agencies in New York alone that specialize in providing or recruiting executives, including CEO's. They get paid by the companies searching for the executives and the executives seeking employment. Just because the average worker can't be a CEO doesn't mean crap. The average CEO can't repair his car or his roof. Persons abilities or intellect doesn't make them a better person than another person.

The average American can't repair his car or roof....without getting in trouble with regulatory agencies...
Try fixing your car's catalytic converter or repairing your roof!

 

[kaz]

I bet if the minimum wage is raised higher than the value of your labor then it will make sense.

You speak as if there is some fixed value of ones labor and that everyone naturally gets paid that value.....no less and no more. It's a weird thing to consider.

First of all, you're stupid. He was saying when the minimum wage is raised higher than the value of your labor you will be unemployed. Again, yes, Seawytch, you people can't read, it's incredible.

Second, there is a vlue of one's labor everyone naturally gets paid. It's set by a free market. Seriously, econ101 should be a basic high school requirement. The Democratic party would be devasated

Please notify me of when this free market system starts....

Your crappy wages are a result of your crappy job performance government boy no matter how much you want to blame rich people and corporations

 

[Asclepias]

not really, it's a work thing...

Oh, really? Then if I buy a car I don't necessarily deserve it? Is that a work thing?

Where do you moonbats get these fucked up ideas? No wonder you're obsessed with McDonalds.

Deserve and possession is two different emotional issues..

No, no they are not. Simply put, I deserve whatever I rightfully own.

Are you drunk?

No you dont always deserve what you own. Lots of people own things someone else worked for.

Who teaches you this kind of stupid shit? I mean seriously, do you actually believe this retarded shit?

Common sense teaches me this stuff. You should try it.

 

[Asclepias]

CEO's? They don't do shit, they make millions sitting around all day

They real workers who deserve millions are the dumb fucks that need 4 of them to figure out how to change a light bulb

It's a give-take relationship, yet CEO's earn millions even if the company losses money....Employees, not so much..Both need each other to operate and produce product...

Yeah, because there is a vast pool of people out there that can run a company... burger flippers? They are a dime-a-dozen.

There is a vast pool of people that can run companies. We actually have a system for picking our business leaders that sucks. That is a major problem we have in this country. We have a selection process for business leaders that is based on corruption that allows the privileged opportunities not afforded to the less privileged. That is one of the reasons over 70% of news businesses fail and end up costing everyone from creditors to taxpayers. The dime a dozen people you seem dependent on looking down on contain many highly qualified and fine people who are forced to maintain themselves in their low paying job because their priorities are restricted to the immediate needs of their families and the weekly paycheck that is so important to those who in fact live paycheck to paycheck.

NO there isn't!
Obviously you've NEVER been a CEO much less what it takes to "run" a company.
Do you know what the term "medical liability ratio"? Do you understand what "Safe Harbor--(nothing to do with water by the way...)" means in a public company? How about the acronym "EBIT" any idea what those terms mean?
You think the average worker knows what these terms...much less how to make decisions based on the meanings?

Yes there are. There are over a dozen agencies in New York alone that specialize in providing or recruiting executives, including CEO's. They get paid by the companies searching for the executives and the executives seeking employment. Just because the average worker can't be a CEO doesn't mean crap. The average CEO can't repair his car or his roof. Persons abilities or intellect doesn't make them a better person than another person.

It does make them more valuable in the job market though. Thats the point people are missing. It all comes down to if you can generate more wealth. Doesnt make you a bad person as a human if you cant but it makes you less valuable as a worker.

 

[Mr Natural]

And where does it end?

Aerospace engineers demanding $100.00 an hour?

Have any idea what that would do to the cost of military hardware not to mention our fucking taxes to pay for that shit?

 

[bripat9643]

Where does a highly skilled trades person only earn 15 an hour?

Many carpenters make only about that much.

 

[bripat9643]

And where does it end?

Aerospace engineers demanding $100.00 an hour?

Have any idea what that would do to the cost of military hardware not to mention our fucking taxes to pay for that shit?

I got news for you: many engineers who do consulting with the government make more than that.

 

[healthmyths]

strange no one seems to want to check the Internet to get the facts:

A Structural Iron or Steel Worker receives wages of somewhere between 32000 to 48000 depending on the level of experience. Structural Iron and Steel Workers will usually earn a pay level of Forty Eight Thousand Seven Hundred dollars on an annual basis.
How much does a Structural Iron or Steel Worker make Compare your salary with the national and state salaries for Structural Iron and Steel Workers
At average $40,000 that works out to $19.00/hour.

According to the BLS, carpenters earned a median salary of $40,500 in 2013, or $19.47 per hour
Carpenter Salary Information Best Jobs US News Careers
Aerospace Engineers
2012 Median Pay $103,720 per year $49.87 per hour
Aerospace Engineers Occupational Outlook Handbook U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics