"You didn't get there on your own"

[Bfgrn]

If they can't refute the topic, the tactic is change the subject folks or pick somebody to demonize or buld straw men to attack or throw red herrings into the bait bucket.

The topic is whether Obama is right that everybody deserves a cut of the businessman's profits because everybody earned them..

You have to try and get your information from other sources. And I'm not talking about getting your information from the Left, which would be equally as bad.

Obama was referring to the modern industrial base of this country, upon which capital depends. The Hoover Dam, the interstate system, the energy grids, water treatment and delivery, the postwar build-up of rural and suburban America - the incredible wealth of infrastructure that was created through taxation and the government allocation of capital. Great Republican presidents like Eisenhower put our noble veterans to work building the infrastructure of the modern industrial state upon which commerce depends. Much of the technology that fueled the 80s consumer electronics boom came out of the Cold War Pentagon/NASA.

The big banks crave FDIC insurance, which allows them to take greater risks with capital. Thousands of profitable businesses have depended deeply on government subsidies and bailouts. The entire property system depends on a vigorous and powerful law enforcement network (controlled and funded by the public). Do you know how much money it costs to fund just the legal infrastructure that safeguards just one futures market? Do you know how much Boeing and commercial aviation depended on government subsidies? Commerce and the profits made therein have always depended on a complicated partnership between government and the private sector. Not one penny of profit in the Southwest would be possible without the Hooever Dam. You need to study these things without repeating talk radio cliches. [There are great arguments against the Left, but none of them come from the think tanks and media sources on the right].

Do you understand the multiplier effect - the profit - made possible by Eisenhower's Interstate? Obama was inelegantly referring to the wider nexus of infrastructure upon which capital depends.

My friend did some of his Ph.D research in the outskirts of Nairobi. He lived in a building which had constant electrical fires because there were no regulations or codes for electrical lines. Also, the wasn't a sufficient system of roads to move consumers and goods. There was no insurance system which businesses need to protect their investments. Lacking infrastructure, business cannot invest in many parts of the world. In the outskirts of Nairobi, investments are too easily destroyed or stolen because of zero law enforcement. Here is what you don't understand. Profit depends on the codes and law enforcement provided by the public, managed by government. Capital craves the modern industrial state. Commerce would be IMPOSSIBLE without these things. Profit makers depend on others. This doesn't mean that they should not earn a profit for the amount they add to the equation. It only means that the current anti-tax revolution ignores the infrastructure upon which profit so deeply depends.

Turn off talk radio. You have been lied to.

Another great post Londoner. I wonder if our conservative friends have any understanding of the huge role infrastructure efficiency has on the cost of good and services?

 

[Dr Grump]

Liberal's are incapable of personal success- just ask Obama

Stop trying to be clever, Girl....It's not working for you...

 

[American_Jihad]

This is GUBMINT help

13-year-old Holland hot dog vendor shut down by city hall gets generous offer, outpouring of support

Published: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 9:21 PM Updated: Friday, July 20, 2012, 10:14 AM
By Garret Ellison

---
Duszynski, 13, was told by city officials on Tuesday that his cart was in violation of a Holland zoning law that protects existing food businesses downtown against competition from mobile food vendors.

---

“The problem is not so much over regulation. The problem is the system makes it difficult to know what all the regulations are. The family thought they had jumped through all the proper hoops and were ready to go, but were tripped up by a separate zoning issue that didn't come up until after they had all the other permits and paper work ready. It would've been better if the government made it easy to know all the regulations that are likely to cause problems ahead of time instead of forcing you to learn them as you go.”

---
13-year-old Holland hot dog vendor shut down by city hall gets generous offer, outpouring of support | MLive.com

 

[Murf76]

] They PAY for their use of the infrastructure just like they pay any other business expense... and then some. They've already paid their debt to a decent society.

This a little bit of a generalization. Corporations require subsidies, bailouts, and tax breaks in order to move/keep jobs here.

The effective tax rates of large corporations and wealthy individuals is far less than the advertised rate. GE is a perfect example. Don't take my word for it. Here is a company that depends deeply on infrastructure and defense, but who sequesters massive amounts of money off shore. The larger the corporation the more it can offset taxes through a maze of shelters, subsidies and tax credits. If you're paying anything close to the top tax rate as a business or individual - if you're not availing yourself of the massive loopholes that have been methodically built into the system over the last 30 years - than you're not only an idiot, you're shareholders will have your head. Everybody knows that the wealthy have successfully won the tax game. This is why they pay 15% on capital gains. The only people who pay full boat are the ones who make their cake from salaries and wages - the ones who can't afford lawyers and politicians. [There, I was as general as you were]

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Barack Obama, since Jeffrey Immelt's head is so far up his ass he needs an oxygen tube.
And what exactly has Obama done in the three and a half years he's held office, except lie in bed with Big Pharma and serve as a cash pinata for "green" corporations like Solyndra?

Capital gains are taxed twice. Keep them low, reform tax law toward simplicity and loophole closures. LIMIT the power of special influences by LIMITING the power of politicians. When they don't have anything to sell, they're not worth buying. Next thing you know, crony capitalists will be out of business.

I like the idea of hiring a guy like Mitt Romney. He knows where the bones are buried. It's hard to pull a scam on a guy who already knows the game.

 

[Bfgrn]

] They PAY for their use of the infrastructure just like they pay any other business expense... and then some. They've already paid their debt to a decent society.

This a little bit of a generalization. Corporations require subsidies, bailouts, and tax breaks in order to move/keep jobs here.

The effective tax rates of large corporations and wealthy individuals is far less than the advertised rate. GE is a perfect example. Don't take my word for it. Here is a company that depends deeply on infrastructure and defense, but who sequesters massive amounts of money off shore. The larger the corporation the more it can offset taxes through a maze of shelters, subsidies and tax credits. If you're paying anything close to the top tax rate as a business or individual - if you're not availing yourself of the massive loopholes that have been methodically built into the system over the last 30 years - than you're not only an idiot, you're shareholders will have your head. Everybody knows that the wealthy have successfully won the tax game. This is why they pay 15% on capital gains. The only people who pay full boat are the ones who make their cake from salaries and wages - the ones who can't afford lawyers and politicians. [There, I was as general as you were]

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Barack Obama, since Jeffrey Immelt's head is so far up his ass he needs an oxygen tube.
And what exactly has Obama done in the three and a half years he's held office, except lie in bed with Big Pharma and serve as a cash pinata for "green" corporations like Solyndra?

Capital gains are taxed twice. Keep them low, reform tax law toward simplicity and loophole closures. LIMIT the power of special influences by LIMITING the power of politicians. When they don't have anything to sell, they're not worth buying. Next thing you know, crony capitalists will be out of business.

I like the idea of hiring a guy like Mitt Romney. He knows where the bones are buried. It's hard to pull a scam on a guy who already knows the game.

Maybe you missed this, or maybe you just ignored this because it doesn't fit into your narrative?

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan



Obama Unveils Proposal to Cut Corporate Tax Rate

THE PRESIDENT’S FRAMEWORK FOR BUSINESS TAX REFORM

Introduction

America’s system of business taxation is in need of reform. The United States has a relatively narrow corporate tax base compared to other countries—a tax base reduced by loopholes, tax expenditures, and tax planning. This is combined with a statutory corporate tax rate that will soon be the highest among advanced countries. As a result of this combination of a relatively narrow tax base and a high statutory tax rate, the U.S. tax system is uncompetitive and inefficient. The system distorts choices such as where to produce, what to invest in, how to finance a business, and what business form to use. And it does too little to encourage job creation and investment in the United States while allowing firms to benefit from incentives to locate production and shift profits overseas. The system is also too complicated—especially for America’s small businesses.

For these reasons, the President is committed to reform that will support the competitiveness of American businesses—large and small—and increase incentives to invest and hire in the United States by lowering rates, cutting tax expenditures, and reducing complexity, while being fiscally responsible.

This report presents the President’s Framework for business tax reform. In laying out this Framework, the President recognizes that tax reform will take time, require work on a bipartisan basis, and benefit from additional feedback from stakeholders and experts. To start that process, this report outlines what the President believes should be five key elements of business tax reform.


PRESIDENT OBAMA’S FIVE ELEMENTS OF BUSINESS TAX REFORM

I. Eliminate dozens of tax loopholes and subsidies, broaden the base and cut the corporate tax rate to spur growth in America: The Framework would eliminate dozens of different tax expenditures and fundamentally reform the business tax base to reduce distortions that hurt productivity and growth. It would reinvest these savings to lower the corporate tax rate to 28 percent, putting the United States in line with major competitor countries and encouraging greater investment in America.

II. Strengthen American manufacturing and innovation: The Framework would refocus the manufacturing deduction and use the savings to reduce the effective rate on manufacturing to no more than 25 percent, while encouraging greater research and development and the production of clean energy.

III. Strengthen the international tax system, including establishing a new minimum tax on foreign earnings, to encourage domestic investment: Our tax system should not give companies an incentive to locate production overseas or engage in accounting games to shift profits abroad, eroding the U.S. tax base. Introducing a minimum tax on foreign earnings would help address these problems and discourage a global race to the bottom in tax rates.

IV. Simplify and cut taxes for America’s small businesses: Tax reform should make tax filing simpler for small businesses and entrepreneurs so that they can focus on growing their businesses rather than filling out tax returns.

V. Restore fiscal responsibility and not add a dime to the deficit: Business tax reform should be fully paid for and lead to greater fiscal responsibility than our current business tax system by either eliminating or making permanent and fully paying for temporary tax provisions now in the tax code.

 

[Murf76]

This a little bit of a generalization. Corporations require subsidies, bailouts, and tax breaks in order to move/keep jobs here.

The effective tax rates of large corporations and wealthy individuals is far less than the advertised rate. GE is a perfect example. Don't take my word for it. Here is a company that depends deeply on infrastructure and defense, but who sequesters massive amounts of money off shore. The larger the corporation the more it can offset taxes through a maze of shelters, subsidies and tax credits. If you're paying anything close to the top tax rate as a business or individual - if you're not availing yourself of the massive loopholes that have been methodically built into the system over the last 30 years - than you're not only an idiot, you're shareholders will have your head. Everybody knows that the wealthy have successfully won the tax game. This is why they pay 15% on capital gains. The only people who pay full boat are the ones who make their cake from salaries and wages - the ones who can't afford lawyers and politicians. [There, I was as general as you were]

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Barack Obama, since Jeffrey Immelt's head is so far up his ass he needs an oxygen tube.
And what exactly has Obama done in the three and a half years he's held office, except lie in bed with Big Pharma and serve as a cash pinata for "green" corporations like Solyndra?

Capital gains are taxed twice. Keep them low, reform tax law toward simplicity and loophole closures. LIMIT the power of special influences by LIMITING the power of politicians. When they don't have anything to sell, they're not worth buying. Next thing you know, crony capitalists will be out of business.

I like the idea of hiring a guy like Mitt Romney. He knows where the bones are buried. It's hard to pull a scam on a guy who already knows the game.

Maybe you missed this, or maybe you just ignored this because it doesn't fit into your narrative?

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan



Obama Unveils Proposal to Cut Corporate Tax Rate

THE PRESIDENT’S FRAMEWORK FOR BUSINESS TAX REFORM

Introduction

America’s system of business taxation is in need of reform. The United States has a relatively narrow corporate tax base compared to other countries—a tax base reduced by loopholes, tax expenditures, and tax planning. This is combined with a statutory corporate tax rate that will soon be the highest among advanced countries. As a result of this combination of a relatively narrow tax base and a high statutory tax rate, the U.S. tax system is uncompetitive and inefficient. The system distorts choices such as where to produce, what to invest in, how to finance a business, and what business form to use. And it does too little to encourage job creation and investment in the United States while allowing firms to benefit from incentives to locate production and shift profits overseas. The system is also too complicated—especially for America’s small businesses.

For these reasons, the President is committed to reform that will support the competitiveness of American businesses—large and small—and increase incentives to invest and hire in the United States by lowering rates, cutting tax expenditures, and reducing complexity, while being fiscally responsible.

This report presents the President’s Framework for business tax reform. In laying out this Framework, the President recognizes that tax reform will take time, require work on a bipartisan basis, and benefit from additional feedback from stakeholders and experts. To start that process, this report outlines what the President believes should be five key elements of business tax reform.


PRESIDENT OBAMA’S FIVE ELEMENTS OF BUSINESS TAX REFORM

I. Eliminate dozens of tax loopholes and subsidies, broaden the base and cut the corporate tax rate to spur growth in America: The Framework would eliminate dozens of different tax expenditures and fundamentally reform the business tax base to reduce distortions that hurt productivity and growth. It would reinvest these savings to lower the corporate tax rate to 28 percent, putting the United States in line with major competitor countries and encouraging greater investment in America.

II. Strengthen American manufacturing and innovation: The Framework would refocus the manufacturing deduction and use the savings to reduce the effective rate on manufacturing to no more than 25 percent, while encouraging greater research and development and the production of clean energy.

III. Strengthen the international tax system, including establishing a new minimum tax on foreign earnings, to encourage domestic investment: Our tax system should not give companies an incentive to locate production overseas or engage in accounting games to shift profits abroad, eroding the U.S. tax base. Introducing a minimum tax on foreign earnings would help address these problems and discourage a global race to the bottom in tax rates.

IV. Simplify and cut taxes for America’s small businesses: Tax reform should make tax filing simpler for small businesses and entrepreneurs so that they can focus on growing their businesses rather than filling out tax returns.

V. Restore fiscal responsibility and not add a dime to the deficit: Business tax reform should be fully paid for and lead to greater fiscal responsibility than our current business tax system by either eliminating or making permanent and fully paying for temporary tax provisions now in the tax code.

Maybe you should head it with the Treasury.gov's plan for excavating Jeffrey Immelt's head from Barack's ass. Might make it more noticeable.

 

[Bfgrn]

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Barack Obama, since Jeffrey Immelt's head is so far up his ass he needs an oxygen tube.
And what exactly has Obama done in the three and a half years he's held office, except lie in bed with Big Pharma and serve as a cash pinata for "green" corporations like Solyndra?

Capital gains are taxed twice. Keep them low, reform tax law toward simplicity and loophole closures. LIMIT the power of special influences by LIMITING the power of politicians. When they don't have anything to sell, they're not worth buying. Next thing you know, crony capitalists will be out of business.

I like the idea of hiring a guy like Mitt Romney. He knows where the bones are buried. It's hard to pull a scam on a guy who already knows the game.

Maybe you missed this, or maybe you just ignored this because it doesn't fit into your narrative?

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan



Obama Unveils Proposal to Cut Corporate Tax Rate

THE PRESIDENT’S FRAMEWORK FOR BUSINESS TAX REFORM

Introduction

America’s system of business taxation is in need of reform. The United States has a relatively narrow corporate tax base compared to other countries—a tax base reduced by loopholes, tax expenditures, and tax planning. This is combined with a statutory corporate tax rate that will soon be the highest among advanced countries. As a result of this combination of a relatively narrow tax base and a high statutory tax rate, the U.S. tax system is uncompetitive and inefficient. The system distorts choices such as where to produce, what to invest in, how to finance a business, and what business form to use. And it does too little to encourage job creation and investment in the United States while allowing firms to benefit from incentives to locate production and shift profits overseas. The system is also too complicated—especially for America’s small businesses.

For these reasons, the President is committed to reform that will support the competitiveness of American businesses—large and small—and increase incentives to invest and hire in the United States by lowering rates, cutting tax expenditures, and reducing complexity, while being fiscally responsible.

This report presents the President’s Framework for business tax reform. In laying out this Framework, the President recognizes that tax reform will take time, require work on a bipartisan basis, and benefit from additional feedback from stakeholders and experts. To start that process, this report outlines what the President believes should be five key elements of business tax reform.


PRESIDENT OBAMA’S FIVE ELEMENTS OF BUSINESS TAX REFORM

I. Eliminate dozens of tax loopholes and subsidies, broaden the base and cut the corporate tax rate to spur growth in America: The Framework would eliminate dozens of different tax expenditures and fundamentally reform the business tax base to reduce distortions that hurt productivity and growth. It would reinvest these savings to lower the corporate tax rate to 28 percent, putting the United States in line with major competitor countries and encouraging greater investment in America.

II. Strengthen American manufacturing and innovation: The Framework would refocus the manufacturing deduction and use the savings to reduce the effective rate on manufacturing to no more than 25 percent, while encouraging greater research and development and the production of clean energy.

III. Strengthen the international tax system, including establishing a new minimum tax on foreign earnings, to encourage domestic investment: Our tax system should not give companies an incentive to locate production overseas or engage in accounting games to shift profits abroad, eroding the U.S. tax base. Introducing a minimum tax on foreign earnings would help address these problems and discourage a global race to the bottom in tax rates.

IV. Simplify and cut taxes for America’s small businesses: Tax reform should make tax filing simpler for small businesses and entrepreneurs so that they can focus on growing their businesses rather than filling out tax returns.

V. Restore fiscal responsibility and not add a dime to the deficit: Business tax reform should be fully paid for and lead to greater fiscal responsibility than our current business tax system by either eliminating or making permanent and fully paying for temporary tax provisions now in the tax code.

Maybe you should head it with the Treasury.gov's plan for excavating Jeffrey Immelt's head from Barack's ass. Might make it more noticeable.

WOW, such an intelligent and fact filled reply! I guess my only recourse now is: 'I know you are, but what am I?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

If they can't refute the topic, the tactic is change the subject folks or pick somebody to demonize or buld straw men to attack or throw red herrings into the bait bucket.

The topic is whether Obama is right that everybody deserves a cut of the businessman's profits because everybody earned them..

No, that is not the 'topic'. That is YOUR polemic, partisan and dishonest propaganda. That is not what the President said.

We are on page 234 of this thread. The topic has been debated ad nauseum. Let me recap and clarify.

The President made a speech, and conservatives and Republicans have taken out of context one line in his speech, and grossly twisted the meaning. They are using it as an attack on Obama.

Conservatives and Republicans only want you to hear the one line where the President said, "If you've got a business, you didn't build that," but they don't want you to hear the sentences preceding and following that line that make it clear he was referring to the government infrastructure that helps businesses succeed, not the businesses themselves.

No, dipshit, we read the whole frigging speech. Please read it yourself and tell us what "context" we're supposed to derive from it . . . so we can laugh at your desperate attempts to continue kissing Obama's ass.

 

[Article 15]

If they can't refute the topic, the tactic is change the subject folks or pick somebody to demonize or buld straw men to attack or throw red herrings into the bait bucket.

The topic is whether Obama is right that everybody deserves a cut of the businessman's profits because everybody earned them..

What a dumb fucking post.

Read the following quote:

"Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

Thomas Paine

Give it some time to sink in.

Hopefully, it will keep you from making dumb fucking posts of this nature in the future.

 

[Bfgrn]

If they can't refute the topic, the tactic is change the subject folks or pick somebody to demonize or buld straw men to attack or throw red herrings into the bait bucket.

The topic is whether Obama is right that everybody deserves a cut of the businessman's profits because everybody earned them..

No, that is not the 'topic'. That is YOUR polemic, partisan and dishonest propaganda. That is not what the President said.

We are on page 234 of this thread. The topic has been debated ad nauseum. Let me recap and clarify.

The President made a speech, and conservatives and Republicans have taken out of context one line in his speech, and grossly twisted the meaning. They are using it as an attack on Obama.

Conservatives and Republicans only want you to hear the one line where the President said, "If you've got a business, you didn't build that," but they don't want you to hear the sentences preceding and following that line that make it clear he was referring to the government infrastructure that helps businesses succeed, not the businesses themselves.

No, dipshit, we read the whole frigging speech. Please read it yourself and tell us what "context" we're supposed to derive from it . . . so we can laugh at your desperate attempts to continue kissing Obama's ass.

Here you go, here is a bigger excerpt, but why don't you try reading the whole speech.

THE PRESIDENT:

Now, one last thing -- one of the biggest differences is how we pay down our debt and our deficit. My opponent, Mr. Romney’s plan is he wants to cut taxes another $5 trillion on top of the Bush tax cuts.

Well, first of all, like I said, the only way you can pay for that -- if you’re actually saying you’re bringing down the deficit -- is to cut transportation, cut education, cut basic research, voucherize Medicare, and you’re still going to end up having to raise taxes on middle-class families to pay for this $5 trillion tax cut. That’s not a deficit reduction plan. That’s a deficit expansion plan.

I’ve got a different idea. I do believe we can cut -- we’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently. (Applause.) Not every government program works the way it’s supposed to. And frankly, government can’t solve every problem. If somebody doesn’t want to be helped, government can’t always help them. Parents -- we can put more money into schools, but if your kids don’t want to learn it’s hard to teach them. (Applause.)

But you know what, I’m not going to see us gut the investments that grow our economy to give tax breaks to me or Mr. Romney or folks who don’t need them. So I’m going to reduce the deficit in a balanced way. We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. (Applause.) And, by the way, we’ve tried that before -- a guy named Bill Clinton did it. We created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine. We created a lot of millionaires.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together. (Applause.)

So all these issues go back to that first campaign that I talked about, because everything has to do with how do we help middle-class families, working people, strivers, doers -- how do we help them succeed? How do we make sure that their hard work pays off? That’s what I've been thinking about the entire time I've been President.

Now, over the next four months, the other side is going to spend more money than we've even seen in history. And they don’t really have a good argument for how they would do better, but they're thinking they can win the election if they just remind people that a lot of people are still out of work, and the economy is not growing as fast as it needs to, and it's all Obama's fault. That’s basically their pitch.

 

[chanel]

Keep posting it.

 

[edthecynic]

Liberal's are incapable of personal success- just ask Obama

Libs are more financially successful than you lazy CON$ervoFascist slackers. Insanely jealous CON$ insult success and call Libs, " Limousine Liberals." Get off your lazy ass and get a job and you can be as successful as the Libs you envy.

 

[edthecynic]

] They PAY for their use of the infrastructure just like they pay any other business expense... and then some. They've already paid their debt to a decent society.

This a little bit of a generalization. Corporations require subsidies, bailouts, and tax breaks in order to move/keep jobs here.

The effective tax rates of large corporations and wealthy individuals is far less than the advertised rate. GE is a perfect example. Don't take my word for it. Here is a company that depends deeply on infrastructure and defense, but who sequesters massive amounts of money off shore. The larger the corporation the more it can offset taxes through a maze of shelters, subsidies and tax credits. If you're paying anything close to the top tax rate as a business or individual - if you're not availing yourself of the massive loopholes that have been methodically built into the system over the last 30 years - than you're not only an idiot, you're shareholders will have your head. Everybody knows that the wealthy have successfully won the tax game. This is why they pay 15% on capital gains. The only people who pay full boat are the ones who make their cake from salaries and wages - the ones who can't afford lawyers and politicians. [There, I was as general as you were]

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Barack Obama, since Jeffrey Immelt's head is so far up his ass he needs an oxygen tube.
And what exactly has Obama done in the three and a half years he's held office, except lie in bed with Big Pharma and serve as a cash pinata for "green" corporations like Solyndra?

Capital gains are taxed twice. Keep them low, reform tax law toward simplicity and loophole closures. LIMIT the power of special influences by LIMITING the power of politicians. When they don't have anything to sell, they're not worth buying. Next thing you know, crony capitalists will be out of business.

I like the idea of hiring a guy like Mitt Romney. He knows where the bones are buried. It's hard to pull a scam on a guy who already knows the game.

Capital gains are not taxed twice, and you know it. The gains sit untaxed, many times for years, until they are realized and then only the untaxed gains are taxed at a special lower rate.

 

[saveliberty]

Here you go, here is a bigger excerpt, but why don't you try reading the whole speech.

THE PRESIDENT:

Now, one last thing -- one of the biggest differences is how we pay down our debt and our deficit. My opponent, Mr. Romney’s plan is he wants to cut taxes another $5 trillion on top of the Bush tax cuts.

Well, first of all, like I said, the only way you can pay for that -- if you’re actually saying you’re bringing down the deficit -- is to cut transportation, cut education, cut basic research, voucherize Medicare, and you’re still going to end up having to raise taxes on middle-class families to pay for this $5 trillion tax cut. That’s not a deficit reduction plan. That’s a deficit expansion plan.

I’ve got a different idea. I do believe we can cut -- we’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently. (Applause.) Not every government program works the way it’s supposed to. And frankly, government can’t solve every problem. If somebody doesn’t want to be helped, government can’t always help them. Parents -- we can put more money into schools, but if your kids don’t want to learn it’s hard to teach them. (Applause.)

But you know what, I’m not going to see us gut the investments that grow our economy to give tax breaks to me or Mr. Romney or folks who don’t need them. So I’m going to reduce the deficit in a balanced way. We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. (Applause.) And, by the way, we’ve tried that before -- a guy named Bill Clinton did it. We created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine. We created a lot of millionaires.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together. (Applause.)

So all these issues go back to that first campaign that I talked about, because everything has to do with how do we help middle-class families, working people, strivers, doers -- how do we help them succeed? How do we make sure that their hard work pays off? That’s what I've been thinking about the entire time I've been President.

Now, over the next four months, the other side is going to spend more money than we've even seen in history. And they don’t really have a good argument for how they would do better, but they're thinking they can win the election if they just remind people that a lot of people are still out of work, and the economy is not growing as fast as it needs to, and it's all Obama's fault. That’s basically their pitch.

Yep, starts out telling us we need to raise taxes on the evil business owners, because they don't deserve credit for building their businesses. All of this as a ploy to gain the votes of the entitlement crowd he was speaking to and to justify further taxes on business. Thanks for the link.

 

[kaz]

Capital gains are not taxed twice, and you know it. The gains sit untaxed, many times for years, until they are realized and then only the untaxed gains are taxed at a special lower rate.

The second time they are taxed is as you describe. The first time was when they were taxed as business tax. One plus one = ... Even you can handle this one Edd...

 

[Mac1958]

Capital gains are not taxed twice, and you know it. The gains sit untaxed, many times for years, until they are realized and then only the untaxed gains are taxed at a special lower rate.

Ultimately non-qualified capital gains are taxed twice. Once at the investor's current marginal rate when the funds that will be invested are initially earned; those funds are then invested. Then gains are taxed as withdrawn. While the marginal tax rates applied will be different, and at different times, the fact remains taxation happens twice. We all know this, right?

The best part is that if those funds are re-invested and sold again and again, the government gets to keep taxing them. Thank goodness, because our "leaders" have proven to be so responsible with all that money.

.

 

[saveliberty]

Isn't it great? The American System is "allowing me to thrive". What happened to my right to the opportunity?

 

[edthecynic]

Capital gains are not taxed twice, and you know it. The gains sit untaxed, many times for years, until they are realized and then only the untaxed gains are taxed at a special lower rate.

The second time they are taxed is as you describe. The first time was when they were taxed as business tax. One plus one = ... Even you can handle this one Edd...

You don't pay a business tax when you buy stock. Zero plus one = ... Even you can handle that one kraz...

 

[edthecynic]

Capital gains are not taxed twice, and you know it. The gains sit untaxed, many times for years, until they are realized and then only the untaxed gains are taxed at a special lower rate.

Ultimately non-qualified capital gains are taxed twice. Once at the investor's current marginal rate when the funds that will be invested are initially earned; those funds are then invested. Then gains are taxed as withdrawn. While the marginal tax rates applied will be different, and at different times, the fact remains taxation happens twice. We all know this, right?

The best part is that if those funds are re-invested and sold again and again, the government gets to keep taxing them. Thank goodness, because our "leaders" have proven to be so responsible with all that money.

.

Whatever is invested is not re-taxed when the GAINS are realized. Whatever was invested is deducted from the sale price and only the gain is taxed. If there is a loss, the investor gets a tax deduction. Nothing is taxed twice. If you had ever bought and sold stock you would know this!!!!

 

[Vidi]

If they can't refute the topic, the tactic is change the subject folks or pick somebody to demonize or buld straw men to attack or throw red herrings into the bait bucket.

The topic is whether Obama is right that everybody deserves a cut of the businessman's profits because everybody earned them..

No, that is not the 'topic'. That is YOUR polemic, partisan and dishonest propaganda. That is not what the President said.

We are on page 234 of this thread. The topic has been debated ad nauseum. Let me recap and clarify.

The President made a speech, and conservatives and Republicans have taken out of context one line in his speech, and grossly twisted the meaning. They are using it as an attack on Obama.

Conservatives and Republicans only want you to hear the one line where the President said, "If you've got a business, you didn't build that," but they don't want you to hear the sentences preceding and following that line that make it clear he was referring to the government infrastructure that helps businesses succeed, not the businesses themselves.

No, dipshit, we read the whole frigging speech. Please read it yourself and tell us what "context" we're supposed to derive from it . . . so we can laugh at your desperate attempts to continue kissing Obama's ass.

You folks keep on holding your hands over your ears and shouting I CANT HEAR YOU! I CANT HEAR YOU!!!

That seems to be your only response now to the truth you so conveniently ignore because it doesnt fit your OBAMABADMAN narrative.