"You didn't get there on your own"

[Claudette]

Well put so I missed this but heard and saw late last night and this morning. Now we have a president who denies the successful people's success? And says someone else did it for them? That's par for the course I guess for a guy that still blames Bush. Sheesh

He didn't deny anyone's success.

he denied it was a result of their own harde work and energy.

I started my first coimpany without a loan.
I had to pay to use the postal service
I had to pay to use the interstate (tolls)
I had to pay to use the bridges (tolls)
I had to pay to use phones
I had to pay to rent my space
I had to pay for my employees
I had to pay for their insurance
I had to pay for paper, staples, pens...

Does he want to take the stance that the government is a "vendor" like all other vendors?

I am fine with that.

But to claim the government is responsible for my success?

Bullshit.

Bullshit is right.

My Mom and Dad had a small business. We kids all worked in it. It was successfull because the whole family worked at it. Seven days a week. No holidays. We busted our asses making that business successfull.

The Govt had absolutely zero to do with our successs. The success came with hard work and our sacrifices. Our sweat, labor and smarts equaled the success.

Small business owners are succesfull because of the govt?? What a crock of shit.

Its more like small business is successfull INSPITE of the Govt.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama got the idea for this brilliant piece of fol de rol from none other than a comment made by Elizabeth Warren. That's why it sounds so stupid. Can we expect to hear about his Cherokee background next.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I've owned a business and I didn't have any trouble at all keeping the government happy. Finding enough customers to make it worthwhile was a problem. What was this family store of which you speak?

There are businesses and then there are REAL businesses... Selling candy bars from a goddamn wheel barrel isn't a business... An S-Corp is....

If you don't have a tax number then you're really not a business....

We had a store that sold toys, games, puzzles, magic tricks, gags, cool looking lights, lava lamps etc... We sold "odd" items... For example I have a case in the corner of solar activated cockroaches (when you put them in the sun they start running around) stuff like that...

Now I have 3 garages of shit from product to display cases..

I'd love to get rid of all this random shit..........

What was the issue with the government? Generally, if a company doesn't make money, it doesn't have to pay the government anything.

So, the answer is to fail at whatever you try?

 

[teapartysamurai]

Is this how desperate they've gotten? "Republicans hate roads" or some shit?

Holy cow. Fatal, fatal error. They should've stuck with the "War on Women and Puppies".

Oh, they are moving onto Romney is a felon.

Which I think will fall as flat as their attack on Romney and his dog.

Turns out from "Dreams of my father" Obama was doing weed and cocaine and probably distributing it. So, WHO is the real felon?

 

[Jarhead]

No, I once worked for 40 hours without sleep in order to complete a contract. Working hard enough wasn't the issue. It was a bleeding edge company in a field where there were some pretty well established competitors. I probably could have made it work if I'd have stuck with it longer - I have a friend who's doing what I started - but it lost it's appeal and I felt like I'd been there and done that.

In other words you were a quitter and now you think everyone else owes you.

Quitting... You mean kind of like you and school?

By choice, you decided the situation wasnt right for you. And that was your perogative. But bear in mind, by choice, you opted to take a position with a company that had very well established competition. Maybe it was the salary that lured you; or the challange; or the benefits; or the education you got from it; or the commute......but whatever was the reason, it was your choice to take on such a challange.

Just as it was your choice to NOT take the risk of starting your own at the time.

One must sit back and realize that every decision you make as itr pertains to a career...IS YOUR DECISION ALONE...and you reap the rewards and suffer the consequences.

The day the federal government and the employees share the losses with an entrepeneur is the day I will agree with Obamas sentiments.

And please dont tell me the employees share the losses if a company fails becuase they lose their jobs.....for if the owner didnt start the company with his or her own money at risk, those jobs never would have existed.

 

[teapartysamurai]

There are businesses and then there are REAL businesses... Selling candy bars from a goddamn wheel barrel isn't a business... An S-Corp is....

If you don't have a tax number then you're really not a business....

We had a store that sold toys, games, puzzles, magic tricks, gags, cool looking lights, lava lamps etc... We sold "odd" items... For example I have a case in the corner of solar activated cockroaches (when you put them in the sun they start running around) stuff like that...

Now I have 3 garages of shit from product to display cases..

I'd love to get rid of all this random shit..........

What was the issue with the government? Generally, if a company doesn't make money, it doesn't have to pay the government anything.

So if my company doesn't make a profit, I don't have to pay any taxes?


What world are you living in?

 

[naturegirl]

There are businesses and then there are REAL businesses... Selling candy bars from a goddamn wheel barrel isn't a business... An S-Corp is....

If you don't have a tax number then you're really not a business....

We had a store that sold toys, games, puzzles, magic tricks, gags, cool looking lights, lava lamps etc... We sold "odd" items... For example I have a case in the corner of solar activated cockroaches (when you put them in the sun they start running around) stuff like that...

Now I have 3 garages of shit from product to display cases..

I'd love to get rid of all this random shit..........

What was the issue with the government? Generally, if a company doesn't make money, it doesn't have to pay the government anything.

So, the answer is to fail at whatever you try?

Well, kind of.............the government doesn't have much success lately at stuff they've tried. Look at Obama's green energy investments.

 

[teapartysamurai]

No, I once worked for 40 hours without sleep in order to complete a contract. Working hard enough wasn't the issue. It was a bleeding edge company in a field where there were some pretty well established competitors. I probably could have made it work if I'd have stuck with it longer - I have a friend who's doing what I started - but it lost it's appeal and I felt like I'd been there and done that.

So then you pick up and do something else. Makes sense? no?

That's what I'm doing now.

He's now got a gig posting BS in forums by the looks of it!

How's that working out for you?

 

[Katzndogz]

If a company does not make money, it is not true that you don't have to pay the government anything. If you say that, you just have never been in business of any size or income. If you have never heard of the Alternative Minimum Tax, you just don't have business experience.

 

[teapartysamurai]

What was the issue with the government? Generally, if a company doesn't make money, it doesn't have to pay the government anything.

So if my company doesn't make a profit, I don't have to pay any taxes?


What world are you living in?

Probably have to pay some minor shit like property taxes, water, sewer maybe some additional police and fire protection depending on your locale and industry. Maybe hazardous waste? I didn't have to deal with anything major. Why don't you tell me what the big, bad government is doing to you?

And you claim you ran a business?

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!

 

[teapartysamurai]

So if my company doesn't make a profit, I don't have to pay any taxes?


What world are you living in?

Probably have to pay some minor shit like property taxes, water, sewer maybe some additional police and fire protection depending on your locale and industry. Maybe hazardous waste? I didn't have to deal with anything major. Why don't you tell me what the big, bad government is doing to you?

Your ignorance of the subject is overwhelming................

Which means he's lying about running a business.

 

[naturegirl]

If a company does not make money, it is not true that you don't have to pay the government anything. If you say that, you just have never been in business of any size or income. If you have never heard of the Alternative Minimum Tax, you just don't have business experience.

Not to mention SS, medicare and unemployment tax. 1/2 of SS and Medicare is paid by the employer if they make money or not. Unemployment is paid 100% by the employer. They don't care if you made a profit, if you pay employees you still have to pay the tax.

 

[Pho_King]

He didn't deny anyone's success.

he denied it was a result of their own harde work and energy.

I started my first coimpany without a loan.
I had to pay to use the postal service
I had to pay to use the interstate (tolls)
I had to pay to use the bridges (tolls)
I had to pay to use phones
I had to pay to rent my space
I had to pay for my employees
I had to pay for their insurance
I had to pay for paper, staples, pens...

Does he want to take the stance that the government is a "vendor" like all other vendors?

I am fine with that.

But to claim the government is responsible for my success?

Bullshit.

Bullshit is right.

My Mom and Dad had a small business. We kids all worked in it. It was successfull because the whole family worked at it. Seven days a week. No holidays. We busted our asses making that business successfull.

The Govt had absolutely zero to do with our successs. The success came with hard work and our sacrifices. Our sweat, labor and smarts equaled the success.

Small business owners are succesfull because of the govt?? What a crock of shit.

Its more like small business is successfull INSPITE of the Govt.

I suspect one would have to look longhand hard to find a business owner that agreed with Obama that the parasite class shares credit for their business success. Joe should take his shtick on the road and try out my theory. Find the next small business you find, joe, and walk in and demand due recognition for your contributions to that business' success.....

 

[Some Guy]

I get what Obama is trying to say, he's just way off. Sure, if big companies didn't have employees, they wouldn't be able to operate. But without someone with the know how, the drive and the capital to create and grow a company, the employees would be a flock without a shepherd.

And great points about employees not sharing in the losses. If someone wants to start a small business and puts up their home to finance it and it goes belly-up, those employees still collected their paychecks and banked that money...while the small business owner loses his/her house.

 

[Pho_King]

It's implied in the message.

I don't see how. I think Obama's "message" was summed up pretty well with this: "The point is, when we succeed we do it because of our individual initiative, but also because we do it together."

There are two thoughts in that sentence. That'll blow most conservative minds. A thing can only be one thing or another. And the one thing or another come from a very small subset of the spectrum of possibilities out there.

So then, how much does a whiner like you owe to the government for your success? You use the infrastructure to, although I can guarantee you pay a hell of a lot less for it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

You hire trained employess that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

Notice libs act like YOU, the small busines owners pays no TAXES that pay for fire or police.

It's just everybody else that supposedly pays for those taxes.

I would love to see a comparison of how much the small business owner pays AND COLLECTS IN SALES TAXES, compared to how much those customers pay in taxes.

Yet the customers are owed the profits of the business?

No shit..

The topic is that businesses did not get where they are alone. Nobody gets ahead in business without the benefits of society, so it is reasonable to expect business to contribute

As IF they DON'T?

You look at the tax load for a small business compared to the 49 percent in this country that PAYS NO FEDERAL TAXES and you libs have the nerve to claim business DOES'T CONTRIBUTE ENOUGH???????

 

[JoeNormal]

If a company does not make money, it is not true that you don't have to pay the government anything. If you say that, you just have never been in business of any size or income. If you have never heard of the Alternative Minimum Tax, you just don't have business experience.

Not to mention SS, medicare and unemployment tax. 1/2 of SS and Medicare is paid by the employer if they make money or not. Unemployment is paid 100% by the employer. They don't care if you made a profit, if you pay employees you still have to pay the tax.

See, now we're getting somewhere. How is it that 55 pages into this discussion, you were the first person to actually list the tax grievances?

Ok, so you tax woes are because of your employees. I had a sole proprietorship. If I didn't make money, I didn't get paid and except for minor things, neither did the government. Still, who gets a bunch of employees until a business reaches a level where they're needed?

 

[teapartysamurai]

I'm not one the one arguing for a "mixed" economy.

In case you didn't know, we HAVE a mixed economy. That's what it is.

And BTW, you still haven't been honest enough to admit MIXED WITH WHAT???????

Haven't been honest enough to admit what? I'm sorry, did you have a question to ask me?



No. A mixed economy is not about mixing capitalism with socialism. The quintessential quality of socialism is production for use. Considering the fact that just over 80% of the US economy is services driven, it's absurdity to even suggest that the US is "mixed" with socialism to any significant or meaningful degree.

A mixed economy, like ours, leaves the open market to establish things like production rates, the costs of purchasing goods, ect, while the government the ability to regulate the market, and exert influence to mitigate the undesirable consequences that are inherent in a capitalist market (such as recessions).

But now you have gone from hiding behind the handicapped to hiding behind small business.

You cannot have it both ways.

Last time.

You cannot claim YOU do all these things with YOUR business while arguing everyone else dosn't make it without government.

Straw man.

"Straw man" That's liberal for "I can't refute."

You are double talking. You won't answer the direct question, MIXED WITH WHAT?

There is capitalism and then it's mixed with WHAT????????

You won't answer that. And it's OBVIOUS WHY!

So, simply answer the direct question, MIXED WITH WHAT????????

I'm still waiting for you to answer.

 

[Pho_King]

Well put so I missed this but heard and saw late last night and this morning. Now we have a president who denies the successful people's success? And says someone else did it for them? That's par for the course I guess for a guy that still blames Bush. Sheesh

He didn't deny anyone's success.

republicans are so independent that they do not need a mother to carry them during fetal stage. They do it all their own.

The problem with you lefties is that you never get out of the fetal stage. You always need mothers comfort.

 

[naturegirl]

If a company does not make money, it is not true that you don't have to pay the government anything. If you say that, you just have never been in business of any size or income. If you have never heard of the Alternative Minimum Tax, you just don't have business experience.

Not to mention SS, medicare and unemployment tax. 1/2 of SS and Medicare is paid by the employer if they make money or not. Unemployment is paid 100% by the employer. They don't care if you made a profit, if you pay employees you still have to pay the tax.

See, now we're getting somewhere. How is it that 55 pages into this discussion, you were the first person to actually list the tax grievances?

Ok, so you tax woes are because of your employees. I had a sole proprietorship. If I didn't make money, I didn't get paid and except for minor things, neither did the government. Still, who gets a bunch of employees until a business reaches a level where they're needed?

Yea, I said the same thing about 100 posts back, whatever.

I have two employees I really don't need, we've lost our asses the last couple of years...........but they are still getting a paycheck because after November when things turn around, I'll need them. Training someone new will cost more than keeping them on the payroll. But we're still paying their taxes.