78% Of Americans Favor Proof Of U.S. Citizenship Before Being Allowed To Vote

[kaz]

I've voted in presidential election back to 1980 and every time I had to show an ID...in OK, TX, AL, AR, MO and Wash D.C.

I, too, have voted in every election since 1980 and did not have to show an ID. I simply told the nice poll worker lady my name, she checked it against a registered voter list for my precinct, then handed me a ballot.

Our country has been this way since its founding. Without IDs.

If you spent, ohhhhhhh, ten or fifteen seconds thinking, you would know why in person voter fraud is extremely rare, making Voter ID a very, very, very stupid idea.

How do we know it's rare since we don't check ID?

 

[g5000]

Well, I have not found anything which supports Clemintine's claim that illegal aliens get the same driver's license as a citizen in some states.

I did find that they have to take the same driver's test as citizens in California: AB 60 allows undocumented immigrants to carry driver's licenses | News | Santa Maria Sun, CA

But they are not the same license:

As proposed in Alejo's bill, the new driver's licenses would be slightly different in that on the front they would bear the letters "DP" (for driving privilege) instead of the "DL" found on conventional California licenses.

That article is dated January 9, 2014.

 

[kaz]

Man, what a horrible train wreck this post is. There is no right to get a driver's license.

The Constitution implicity states a right to vote. Sorry.

So first it was all over the Constitution, now it's "implicit." The Constitution, which is an ENUMERATED document has implicit rights, got it.

When did this implicit right appear since the Founders recognized no right to vote? You had to be a male land owner.

And you're a conservative now? You're all confused today.

for Christ's sake. the Const does explitly mention voting for potus and indirectly for the House. The franchise was of course extended.

I mean have at voter id, but you're going down the rabbit hole here.

Rabbit hole? The Constitution is an enumerated document, and it does not mention a right to vote. The founders in fact left it up to the States to decide that. Then they decided States couldn't deny based on sex, race, that sort of thing, but they never said anyone has a right to vote.

Pointing out that you're making shit up and claiming the Constitution says what it doesn't is in no possible way a "rabbit hole."

What about guns? They are actually an enumerated Constitutional right. If they can't check ID for Constitutional rights, are you as adament they not check IDs when someone wants to buy a gun?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I guess if 78 percent of Americans felt we should outlaw guns, we should get right on that!

Argumentum ad populum

Remember the 90% or more surveyed that wanted universal background checks?

Yeah, well......one deals with a constitutional right and the other doesn't, soooo......

There is no constitutional right to purchase guns without a background check.

 

[kaz]

Well, I have not found anything which supports Clemintine's claim that illegal aliens get the same driver's license as a citizen in some states.

I did find that they have to take the same driver's test as citizens in California: AB 60 allows undocumented immigrants to carry driver's licenses | News | Santa Maria Sun, CA

But they are not the same license:

As proposed in Alejo's bill, the new driver's licenses would be slightly different in that on the front they would bear the letters "DP" (for driving privilege) instead of the "DL" found on conventional California licenses.

That article is dated January 9, 2014.

Apparently you're searching this a lot harder about drivers licenses than the right to vote since you can't find that one isn't in the Constitution.

 

[g5000]

I've voted in presidential election back to 1980 and every time I had to show an ID...in OK, TX, AL, AR, MO and Wash D.C.

I, too, have voted in every election since 1980 and did not have to show an ID. I simply told the nice poll worker lady my name, she checked it against a registered voter list for my precinct, then handed me a ballot.

Our country has been this way since its founding. Without IDs.

If you spent, ohhhhhhh, ten or fifteen seconds thinking, you would know why in person voter fraud is extremely rare, making Voter ID a very, very, very stupid idea.

How do we know it's rare since we don't check ID?

Wow. Your brain is really shut off, isn't it.

Gosh, let's do some thinking. If someone showed up to vote as you, why wouldn't this become known when YOU showed up to vote?

Hmmmm....

I know that's a real tough one to figure out. If you have never voted, I can see why you don't get it. But if you have, then you really aren't paying attention to how it works.

KAZ: Hi, I'm "kaz" and I am here to vote.

POLL WORKER: Our record shows you already voted.

KAZ: Oh. Okay. I guess I will go home.



Get it, yet?





Now imagine that happening on the scale necessary to swing an actual election. How many eligible voters' votes would have to be fraudulently cast? And what incredibly magical thing would have to happen for all of those voters whose votes were stolen not to shout about it?

 

[kaz]

I think his point was that when people die, there is an official death certificate. So, instead of requiring new ID's for a whole bunch of people who've never done anything remotely wrong, why not just have the sec of state offices REMOVE DEAD PEOPLE.?

The answer is not hard to ascertain. It's got jack shite to do with voter fraud, but is rather about suppressing the vote of the less affluent and usually non-whites.

Democrats sue when they clean up voter roles to stop them.

Here's an easier way to make sure no one votes for a dead person, check their ID...

 

[kaz]

I, too, have voted in every election since 1980 and did not have to show an ID. I simply told the nice poll worker lady my name, she checked it against a registered voter list for my precinct, then handed me a ballot.

Our country has been this way since its founding. Without IDs.

If you spent, ohhhhhhh, ten or fifteen seconds thinking, you would know why in person voter fraud is extremely rare, making Voter ID a very, very, very stupid idea.

How do we know it's rare since we don't check ID?

Wow. Your brain is really shut off, isn't it.

Gosh, let's do some thinking. If someone showed up to vote as you, why wouldn't this become known when YOU showed up to vote?

Hmmmm....

I know that's a real tough one to figure out. If you have never voted, I can see why you don't get it. But if you have, then you really aren't paying attention to how it works.


Now imagine that happening on the scale necessary to swing an actual election. How many eligible voters' votes would have to be fraudulently cast? And what incredibly magical thing would have to happen for all of those voters whose votes were stolen not to shout about it?

Or you could just check their ID...

 

[NYcarbineer]

None of those are a right to vote, they just say there are specific reasons vote cannot be denied.

Passing a law that says you can't be denied the right to get a drivers license based on your gender doesn't mean you have a right to get a drivers license, it just means you can't be denied one for the reason of your gender.

Funny how a "critical mind" doesn't follow simple logic.

Man, what a horrible train wreck this post is. There is no right to get a driver's license.

The Constitution implicity states a right to vote. Sorry.

And yet you still have not produced the verbiage. What's the hold up?

The 'verbiage' whatever that is supposed to mean, isn't required.

 

[g5000]

How do we know it's rare since we don't check ID?

Wow. Your brain is really shut off, isn't it.

Gosh, let's do some thinking. If someone showed up to vote as you, why wouldn't this become known when YOU showed up to vote?

Hmmmm....

I know that's a real tough one to figure out. If you have never voted, I can see why you don't get it. But if you have, then you really aren't paying attention to how it works.


Now imagine that happening on the scale necessary to swing an actual election. How many eligible voters' votes would have to be fraudulently cast? And what incredibly magical thing would have to happen for all of those voters whose votes were stolen not to shout about it?

Or you could just check their ID...

Yes, let's spend millions of dollars on a government program which is completely ineffective at acheiving its stated goals. Christ, you sound just like a liberal!

We have been voting for CENTURIES without Voter ID, and in person fraud has been extremely rare that whole time! So there is NO EVIDENCE of the need for Voter ID!

 

[g5000]

I feel like I am conversing with that guy in This Is Spinal Tap who had the amps that goes to 11.

 

[bendog]

Wow. Your brain is really shut off, isn't it.

Gosh, let's do some thinking. If someone showed up to vote as you, why wouldn't this become known when YOU showed up to vote?

Hmmmm....

I know that's a real tough one to figure out. If you have never voted, I can see why you don't get it. But if you have, then you really aren't paying attention to how it works.


Now imagine that happening on the scale necessary to swing an actual election. How many eligible voters' votes would have to be fraudulently cast? And what incredibly magical thing would have to happen for all of those voters whose votes were stolen not to shout about it?

Or you could just check their ID...

Yes, let's spend millions of dollars on a government program which is completely ineffective at acheiving its stated goals. Christ, you sound just like a liberal!

We have been voting for CENTURIES without Voter ID, and in person fraud has been extremely rare that whole time! So there is NO EVIDENCE of the need for Voter ID!

Come on, this program will be very effective in keeping the poor and minority votes down. It's hardly inefficient.

 

[g5000]

Or you could just check their ID...

Yes, let's spend millions of dollars on a government program which is completely ineffective at acheiving its stated goals. Christ, you sound just like a liberal!

We have been voting for CENTURIES without Voter ID, and in person fraud has been extremely rare that whole time! So there is NO EVIDENCE of the need for Voter ID!

Come on, this program will be very effective in keeping the poor and minority votes down. It's hardly inefficient.

That's why I said "stated goals". The stated goals are for the consumption of the rubes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Apples and oranges. Your right to bear arms is in the constitution. Your right to vote is not.

Your right to vote is in the constitution several times.

Actually, there is no right to vote anywhere in the Constitution.

19th amendment:

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.


Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

The amendment clearly states that there IS a right to vote, and that the right to vote, as it exists, cannot be denied anyone on the basis of sex.

That means that you cannot be denied your RIGHT to vote because you are a female, or,

because you are a male.

Since every citizen in the US is either a male or female, all have the right to vote.

All other restrictions on the right to vote, which I'm sure you'll want to bring up, do not alter the fact that voting is a right,

any more than the restrictions on free speech, freedom of the press, or the right to bear arms alter the fact that those too are rights.

 

[kaz]

Wow. Your brain is really shut off, isn't it.

Gosh, let's do some thinking. If someone showed up to vote as you, why wouldn't this become known when YOU showed up to vote?

Hmmmm....

I know that's a real tough one to figure out. If you have never voted, I can see why you don't get it. But if you have, then you really aren't paying attention to how it works.


Now imagine that happening on the scale necessary to swing an actual election. How many eligible voters' votes would have to be fraudulently cast? And what incredibly magical thing would have to happen for all of those voters whose votes were stolen not to shout about it?

Or you could just check their ID...

Yes, let's spend millions of dollars on a government program which is completely ineffective at acheiving its stated goals. Christ, you sound just like a liberal!

We have been voting for CENTURIES without Voter ID, and in person fraud has been extremely rare that whole time! So there is NO EVIDENCE of the need for Voter ID!

WTF, how does "may I see your ID, please" cost "millions of dollars?

 

[NYcarbineer]

15th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

19th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

26th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.


How does that language differ from this: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It doesn't.

None of those are a right to vote, they just say there are specific reasons vote cannot be denied.

.

Every one of those amendments makes direct reference to the right to vote. For your argument to any merit whatsoever,

one would have to establish that those amendments are directly referring to a non-existent right.

That is comically absurd.

 

[kaz]

Or you could just check their ID...

Yes, let's spend millions of dollars on a government program which is completely ineffective at acheiving its stated goals. Christ, you sound just like a liberal!

We have been voting for CENTURIES without Voter ID, and in person fraud has been extremely rare that whole time! So there is NO EVIDENCE of the need for Voter ID!

Come on, this program will be very effective in keeping the poor and minority votes down. It's hardly inefficient.

You need an ID to drive, travel or even have a bank account. And every State that requires an ID provides a free ID. Why do you think minorities don't have and won't get an ID to vote? Do you think they are lazy?

 

[dohhahner]

Our nation was indeed founded on the entrance of immigrants evading prior prosecution or searching for a better way of life. In the defense of many immigrants, their initial priority to become a US citizen is comprised of varying rates due to current situations. A rich man in Mexico with ambitions to become an entrepreneur in the US is less likely to illegally enter the country compared to a young boy being sent in a van while fading from starvation. However cruel this may seem, it is solely based on perception. To reject the starving boy seems inhumane but to reject the business man seems reasonable. Either way we must come to an accord. Simply put, Illegal immigrants must leave and try to re enter the country legally. Though this may prove to be harsh and in some cases impossible, we must adhere to the baseline ideas of prior immigrants. Though originally, the immigration laws were as simple as making it to the country, to signing a book, we have instituted certain policies to monitor traffic, which in turn has provided a sense of homeland security. Though on the other hand, blatantly rejecting entrants for reasons other than disregard to laws set up in our nation would be unjust and foolish. In conclusion, send the illegal immigrants back across the borders in hordes, turn them around 180 degrees, ask them to sign a log book and let them re enter. When it comes to language conflicts, if they would like to speak their own language, then so be it. However if they cannot understand law enforcement officials and have trouble in their daily lives, it is their responsibility to utilize our language.

 

[M14 Shooter]

15th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

19th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

26th amendment: The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.


How does that language differ from this: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It doesn't.

And yet... Your state need not let you vote for President; in doing so it does not violate your rights.

It is good to see, however, that you believe the right to bear arms is as protected by the constitution as the right to vote.

Why should it surprise you that a conservative like myself supports the ENTIRE constitution?

Because you often suggest restrictions on the right to arms that infringe on same.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Here is why in person fraud is so rare:

VOTER: Hi, I'm Joe Smuckatelli.

POLL WORKER: [checks registered voter list] And your address?

VOTER: 123 Main Street right here in Hometown.

POLL WORKER: [checks Joseph Smuckatelli's name on list] Here is your ballot.


Anyone else who comes along to the voting precinct station claiming to be Joe Smuckatelli of 123 Main Street would instantly raise an alarm.

Yeah...?
And what part of the procedure noted above ensure that the 1st guy is not an imposter?
W/o an such procedure in place, should the 2nd guy be the real Joe, his right to vote was just violated.