A question for Republicans

[Oldstyle]

OK, it is not that you needed to prove once more that you are a dumbass.

Stupid responses for stupid statements. You can up the level of your discourse any time you want... if you can. Don't say we're not better off thanks to the achievements of rich men and then ignore the benefit those achievements gave society.

Look, I know that you are not a complete dumbass, you are just a whole lot of a hypocritical asshole.

So you're building castles in the clouds with what you want, not what is.

I stand corrected -- you are a dumbass. No really, you never got that quintiles vs the past thing?

Why have wages stagnated? Simple. We're now competing in a GLOBAL marketplace

OK, so you have an economy generating $1000 gross income. There are three guys sharing that income -- a poor bastard making 100, a guy in the middle making 200 and the rich guy making 700. A few years later the same three guys are generating $2000, shared this way: poor is still making 100, the average Joe is still making 200 and the rich guy makes 1700.

Now tell me, what China could possibly have to do with that development?

Sheesh!...

Also, if you could grasp the concept, China has the same effect on the US economy as technological advances -- there is no difference between the onslaught of a shiny bulldozer and that of a hundred low paid shovel wielding Chinese.

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

 

[ilia25]

Stupid responses for stupid statements. You can up the level of your discourse any time you want... if you can. Don't say we're not better off thanks to the achievements of rich men and then ignore the benefit those achievements gave society.

Look, I know that you are not a complete dumbass, you are just a whole lot of a hypocritical asshole.



I stand corrected -- you are a dumbass. No really, you never got that quintiles vs the past thing?

Why have wages stagnated? Simple. We're now competing in a GLOBAL marketplace

OK, so you have an economy generating $1000 gross income. There are three guys sharing that income -- a poor bastard making 100, a guy in the middle making 200 and the rich guy making 700. A few years later the same three guys are generating $2000, shared this way: poor is still making 100, the average Joe is still making 200 and the rich guy makes 1700.

Now tell me, what China could possibly have to do with that development?

Sheesh!...

Also, if you could grasp the concept, China has the same effect on the US economy as technological advances -- there is no difference between the onslaught of a shiny bulldozer and that of a hundred low paid shovel wielding Chinese.

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

Like I said, blaming this on China is pointless. We were losing blue collar jobs to China in the past 15 years. But we were losing them to the machines for 150 years.

We live in a changing world, and some of those changes lead to a less equal income distribution. We have to deal with that, or we will end up in the "Player piano" world.

 

[Chris]

Look, I know that you are not a complete dumbass, you are just a whole lot of a hypocritical asshole.



I stand corrected -- you are a dumbass. No really, you never got that quintiles vs the past thing?



OK, so you have an economy generating $1000 gross income. There are three guys sharing that income -- a poor bastard making 100, a guy in the middle making 200 and the rich guy making 700. A few years later the same three guys are generating $2000, shared this way: poor is still making 100, the average Joe is still making 200 and the rich guy makes 1700.

Now tell me, what China could possibly have to do with that development?

Sheesh!...

Also, if you could grasp the concept, China has the same effect on the US economy as technological advances -- there is no difference between the onslaught of a shiny bulldozer and that of a hundred low paid shovel wielding Chinese.

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

Like I said, blaming this on China is pointless. We were losing blue collar jobs to China in the past 15 years. But we were losing them to the machines for 150 years.

We live in a changing world, and some of those changes lead to a less equal income distribution. We have to deal with that, or we will end up in the "Player piano" world.

Bullshit.

What led to the inequity in wealth was the Reagan Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and the systematic destruction of the unions.

 

[beagle9]

Anybody who won't work for 50K won't work for 90K either.

Anyone would work harder to get to 90K.

Not if it costs you an extra 40k in taxes, they won't or there's an easier way to make 90k or even more than 50k, they'd be just as satisfied.

Conservation of energy is the name of the game.

Yes, to take the incentive to then prosper and/or to create by ones honest hard works away, by payng far to much taxes, and then wildly seeing what is being done with those taxes (makes a person not care about doing it anymore), and this is a serious problem in this nation these days. Government wanting bigger and bigger revenue streams, in order to sustain dependency (or) to create more and more dependency/voting blocks built now on dependency, is a major major problem being seen or found now these days in it all.

 

[Chris]

Anyone would work harder to get to 90K.

Not if it costs you an extra 40k in taxes, they won't or there's an easier way to make 90k or even more than 50k, they'd be just as satisfied.

Conservation of energy is the name of the game.

Yes, to take the incentive to then prosper and/or to create by ones honest hard works away, by payng far to much taxes, and then wildly seeing what is being done with those taxes (makes a person not care about doing it anymore), and this is a serious problem in this nation these days. Government wanting bigger and bigger revenue streams, in order to sustain dependency (or) to create more and more dependency/voting blocks built now on dependency, is a major major problem being seen or found now these days in it all.

Bullshit.

Government does a good job when properly funded.

But the Republicans want to defund the government and privatize SS and Medicare, so their buddies on Wall Street can get their hands on all that delicious retirement money.

 

[beagle9]

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

Like I said, blaming this on China is pointless. We were losing blue collar jobs to China in the past 15 years. But we were losing them to the machines for 150 years.

We live in a changing world, and some of those changes lead to a less equal income distribution. We have to deal with that, or we will end up in the "Player piano" world.

Bullshit.

What led to the inequity in wealth was the Reagan Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and the systematic destruction of the unions.

It would be nice to see a graph just like this upon a bill board, otherwise in order to show the status of what a single corporation and/or a company made in profits for ten years let's say, and this by way of such a graph, where as a line would then show the upward trend in profits, it's name in big red letters, a depiction of (or) an accurate line description of it's either proportionate or disproportionate sharing of that wealth within and/or through out the company, and this for all to see on that bill board when passing it.

Finally upon it also, we would see "A GRADE" given, whether it be from an A to an F, so all can see what kind of sorry excuse or maybe even a great company it is or isn't, by either it not promoting a more prosperous nation all the way around or either it promoting a more properous nation all the way around ( otherwise to be doing it's part or not).

 

[ilia25]

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

Like I said, blaming this on China is pointless. We were losing blue collar jobs to China in the past 15 years. But we were losing them to the machines for 150 years.

We live in a changing world, and some of those changes lead to a less equal income distribution. We have to deal with that, or we will end up in the "Player piano" world.

Bullshit.

What led to the inequity in wealth was the Reagan Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and the systematic destruction of the unions.

So how tax cuts for the tich could have increased their pre-tax income?

 

[mal]

Should the idle rich, who don't work, pay taxes at a lower rate than people who do work?

The bottom 50% of Income Earners do NOT pay Federal Income Tax...

Not that you will Retain this Fact, or Acknowlege it, but it is a Fact.

Also, there are people who don't Work at all or Earn an Income who get a "Tax Refund" in the for of EITC...

Talk about Horseshit.

But you are for keeping the DemocRAT Constituency fed just enough to get the Vote out of them, just like all of the Plantation Elitists.



peace...

Yeah... Thems Facts is all pesky and shit.



peace...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Should the idle rich, who don't work, pay taxes at a lower rate than people who do work?

They don't most people pay less than 15% of their income in federal income taxes.

 

[Listening]

I keep seeing this drivel about changes in household income.

Nobody seems to want to say that the people in those quintiles don't stay there. They move around....despite the whining on the left....with a fair amount of mobility.

If don't weight that mobility into those charts....they are pretty much meaningless as far as making a statement about gaps between rich and poor.

NOt true...

U.S. falls behind Europe in Economic Mobility between Classes

And frankly, if the mobility is people moving down, that's not a good thing.

It is true. Even though we've dropped, we are still pretty mobile.

 

[Listening]

Do you think that the poor have an ETHICAL or MORAL responsibility to their fellow man to work to support themselves?

You know it is very difficult to talk to people who do not listen, but I'll try once more.

Yes, the poor have ethical and moral responsibility to work hard and to make as much money as they can. I don't dispute that and I can't imagine that anyone does. Get it? Got it? Are you sure? Because if you don't -- read that sentence again. And again. And again, until the meaning of it gets through your thick skull.

Now that we past the above paragraph -- are you sure, BTW? -- then we can get back to my original point. It goes like this: while the poor are responsible for working as hard as anyone else, the are not responsible neither for the talents they are born with, nor for the way the free market rewards those talents. And if the free market starts to send most of the national income to the very few most talented people, and leaves the rest struggling with the low pay -- no amount of ethics or hard work can change that.

And that's what the free market did for the past 30 years -- mostly thanks to the technological advances. It made people on the top very rich, and the rest are free to work hard and move between lower quintiles with no real change in their living standards.

Those are the facts. The question is what can we do about it.

Unless your goal is to become super rich, moving between quintiles is fine. Everyone who isn't super rich isn't poor or even close to it.

This statement above only backs Fitz's assertion that this is about class warefare.

 

[Listening]

The effect that the global economy has had on the shrinking of the American middle class is that hundreds of thousands of great paying blue collar manufacturing jobs left the US and went elsewhere.That's the main reason why the middle class shrunk and until someone addresses that problem without this class warfare bullshit it isn't going to change.

Like I said, blaming this on China is pointless. We were losing blue collar jobs to China in the past 15 years. But we were losing them to the machines for 150 years.

We live in a changing world, and some of those changes lead to a less equal income distribution. We have to deal with that, or we will end up in the "Player piano" world.

Bullshit.

What led to the inequity in wealth was the Reagan Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and the systematic destruction of the unions.

Put away your Ed Shultz talking ponts.

They make you look more stupid than you already do.

 

[Listening]

Bullshit.

Government does a good job when properly funded.

No....you got it backwards.....

Assertion: Government does a good job when properly funded.

General Response: Bullshit.

 

[Sunshine]

Not if it costs you an extra 40k in taxes, they won't or there's an easier way to make 90k or even more than 50k, they'd be just as satisfied.

Conservation of energy is the name of the game.

Yes, to take the incentive to then prosper and/or to create by ones honest hard works away, by payng far to much taxes, and then wildly seeing what is being done with those taxes (makes a person not care about doing it anymore), and this is a serious problem in this nation these days. Government wanting bigger and bigger revenue streams, in order to sustain dependency (or) to create more and more dependency/voting blocks built now on dependency, is a major major problem being seen or found now these days in it all.

Bullshit.

Government does a good job when properly funded.

But the Republicans want to defund the government and privatize SS and Medicare, so their buddies on Wall Street can get their hands on all that delicious retirement money.

When properly funded, government has more resources to demand more funding.

 

[Sunshine]

Anybody who won't work for 50K won't work for 90K either.

Anyone would work harder to get to 90K.

Bullshit!

 

[ilia25]

And that's what the free market did for the past 30 years -- mostly thanks to the technological advances. It made people on the top very rich, and the rest are free to work hard and move between lower quintiles with no real change in their living standards.

Those are the facts. The question is what can we do about it.

Unless your goal is to become super rich, moving between quintiles is fine.

Says who? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. For instance, getting a college degree might not worth the trouble anymore:
http://money.msn.com/college-savings/is-a-college-degree-worthless-smartmoney.aspx

 

[Listening]

And that's what the free market did for the past 30 years -- mostly thanks to the technological advances. It made people on the top very rich, and the rest are free to work hard and move between lower quintiles with no real change in their living standards.

Those are the facts. The question is what can we do about it.

Unless your goal is to become super rich, moving between quintiles is fine.

Says who? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. For instance, getting a college degree might not worth the trouble anymore:
Is a college degree worthless? - 1 - education value - MSN Money

So what ?

The market will correct as necessary if allowed to do so.

 

[ilia25]

Unless your goal is to become super rich, moving between quintiles is fine.

Says who? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. For instance, getting a college degree might not worth the trouble anymore:
Is a college degree worthless? - 1 - education value - MSN Money

So what ?

The market will correct as necessary if allowed to do so.

The market will correct what? What if market does not need that many college graduates anymore? Market decides how many farmers, plumbers, nurses or CEO the economy needs given the level of technological development. 200 years ago the economy needed a lot of farmers. 50 years ago it needed a lot of blue collar workers and engineers. Now it needs nurses, waiters and jobs at Wall-Mart -- there is bigger share of low-paying jobs than it used to be.

This is how the market responds to the new technology during past 30 years -- by sending ever bigger share of the national income to the top.

 

[Big Fitz]

Says who? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. For instance, getting a college degree might not worth the trouble anymore:
Is a college degree worthless? - 1 - education value - MSN Money

So what ?

The market will correct as necessary if allowed to do so.

The market will correct what? What if market does not need that many college graduates anymore? Market decides how many farmers, plumbers, nurses or CEO the economy needs given the level of technological development. 200 years ago the economy needed a lot of farmers. 50 years ago it needed a lot of blue collar workers and engineers. Now it needs nurses, waiters and jobs at Wall-Mart -- there is bigger share of low-paying jobs than it used to be.

This is how the market responds to the new technology during past 30 years -- by sending ever bigger share of the national income to the top.

By what mechanism does "The Market" decide how much of anything?

What happens when too much wealth is 'sent to the top', by your, ahem, interesting theory?

 

[kaz]

The market will correct what? What if market does not need that many college graduates anymore? Market decides how many farmers, plumbers, nurses or CEO the economy needs given the level of technological development. 200 years ago the economy needed a lot of farmers. 50 years ago it needed a lot of blue collar workers and engineers. Now it needs nurses, waiters and jobs at Wall-Mart -- there is bigger share of low-paying jobs than it used to be.

This is how the market responds to the new technology during past 30 years -- by sending ever bigger share of the national income to the top.

So the more the government interferes in the market the more money that goes to the top, and you attribute that to...the market. Interesting...