A question for Republicans

[Big Fitz]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

Yes it does! It makes my pay look worse! I can't have that. I must stop you. :::flailing ineffectually:::

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

It affects your employer who is a greedy nasty evil bastard who deserves to get screwed anyway, so... that doesn't count. God forbid you earn that much more because you MERIT such pay because others in your field won't get the same and it's not fair.

In fact all our employees are making more than they were 5 years ago.

So you're now part of the evil rich? You should be aSHAMED of yourself! naughty nasty type person!

Now tell me who is making less because I, my wife and my employees are all earning more than they were?

Ummmm in comparison, everyone who makes less than you which makes them feel bad which is evil and therefore you must be shot for that to stop you

That's how this all works... right?

 

[ilia25]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

 

[Listening]

It is pretty amazing how the rights, for all their talk about Constitution, do not believe that democracy is real. That the government for the people, by the people is anything more than a pretty slogan.

This conclusion is not at all supported in this statement.

Your ascribing an attitude.....is childish.

 

[Big Fitz]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

The zero sum game lie again.

 

[Jarhead]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

actually much of that income helped make many middle class become rich and many poor become middle class....and yes, many rich become richer.

And as a business owner, a business planner, and a human resource solutions professional for well over 2 decades in one of the largest markets in the world....

I can say this with confidence....

Those whose labor is valued as less is a result of a few things..

1) Work ethic and loyalty...employers absolutley reward for good work ethic and loyalty and value employees that have it

2) technology.....example.....a man who was a machinist had a value based on his skill, his dedication, his pride in his work. Now they use CNC...computerized machining. The only human element involved in CNC machining is the guy that turns it on and turns it off when the stock needs to be replenished. Exactly what does that man do that makes him stand out and be worth more than others? How can he display any type of differential?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

Only that way huh?

You could not be more wrong. We opened a business 5 years ago and gave 10 people jobs. Our customers paid us for a service. No one's income was diminished because we provided a service that was not previously available in our town.

Our income went up as more and more people contracted us for our services. Our employee's salaries went up.

No one lost a job or lost income because we opened a business and increased our income.

In fact we buy supplies from local people and therefore increase their income. We contract people to do repairs on our building and therefore increase their income.

There is not one person in our community who has lost income because of our success in fact it's just the opposite.

 

[Big Fitz]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

Only that way huh?

You could not be more wrong. We opened a business 5 years ago and gave 10 people jobs. Our customers paid us for a service. No one's income was diminished because we provided a service that was not previously available in our town.

Our income went up as more and more people contracted us for our services. Our employee's salaries went up.

No one lost a job or lost income because we opened a business and increased our income.

In fact we buy supplies from local people and therefore increase their income. We contract people to do repairs on our building and therefore increase their income.

There is not one person in our community who has lost income because of our success in fact it's just the opposite.

You utter bastard!!! How dare you!!!!

 

[ilia25]

The zero sum game lie again.

Man, how hard it is to understand, that even though the whole pie is getting bigger, you may still be getting a smaller piece?

 

[Big Fitz]

The zero sum game lie again.

Man, how hard it is to understand, that even though the whole pie is getting bigger, you may still be getting a smaller piece?

Same lack of comprehension from you too. What someone else earns is NOT my or anyone else's concern. You are infested with petty jealousy and it's really kinda disgusting how much you don't realize it, or more likely, think it's justified because of how shallow a person you are.

 

[ilia25]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

Only that way huh?

You could not be more wrong. We opened a business 5 years ago and gave 10 people jobs. Our customers paid us for a service. No one's income was diminished because we provided a service that was not previously available in our town.

Yes, someone income was diminished. If people are paying you more, then they are paying less to someone else. Not necessarily in your community, but someone in the country is getting a hit (or it could be Chinese, but I doubt it).

There is not one person in our community who has lost income because of our success in fact it's just the opposite.

It is not about your community, or your business. I am talking about the whole economy -- it generates some GDP, and it is shared between all of us. If you are getting a much bigger share of the pie, someone else in the economy is getting less -- it is as simple as that.

And it is not your fault, this is how the market works.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

Only that way huh?

You could not be more wrong. We opened a business 5 years ago and gave 10 people jobs. Our customers paid us for a service. No one's income was diminished because we provided a service that was not previously available in our town.

Yes, someone income was diminished. If people are paying you more, then they are paying less to someone else. Not necessarily in your community, but someone in the country is getting a hit (or it could be Chinese, but I doubt it).

There is not one person in our community who has lost income because of our success in fact it's just the opposite.

It is not about your community, or your business. I am talking about the whole economy -- it generates some GDP, and it is shared between all of us. If you are getting a much bigger share of the pie, someone else in the economy is getting less -- it is as simple as that.

And it is not your fault, this is how the market works.

You assume that because a person pays me $100 for a service that someone else in the country is $100 poorer? If I give my employees a 2500 dollar a year raise then someone else is $2500 poorer?

Prove it.

 

[Listening]

It is not about your community, or your business. I am talking about the whole economy -- it generates some GDP, and it is shared between all of us. If you are getting a much bigger share of the pie, someone else in the economy is getting less -- it is as simple as that.

And it is not your fault, this is how the market works.

Hunh ?

That makes no sense at all.

 

[ilia25]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

actually much of that income helped make many middle class become rich and many poor become middle class....and yes, many rich become richer.

May be you don't know what median means. A meidan household means that half of other households has lower income, and half -- higher. If medium household did not see any increase in their incomes it means that the middle class did not get richer. And the poor probably got poorer.

And as a business owner, a business planner, and a human resource solutions professional for well over 2 decades

... you still don't have the whole picture -- the economy is a closed system and it works very, very different that an open system like a business.

1) Work ethic and loyalty...employers absolutley reward for good work ethic and loyalty and value employees that have it

Well that could be, but there is no reason to believe that this was the driving factor. However,

2) technology..

Now we are getting somewhere. The free market reacts to technological advances by changing the income distribution. Automation makes the blue-collar and even engineering jobs disappear, creating a society with a few high paid professionals and a lot of low paid jobs.

Exactly what does that man do that makes him stand out and be worth more than
others? How can he display any type of differential?

He is smart, beautiful and hard working. The question is, does he really want to live as part of a tiny super rich elite surrounded by the sea of the poor? Is this what America should become?

 

[ilia25]

You assume that because a person pays me $100 for a service that someone else in the country is $100 poorer? If I give my employees a 2500 dollar a year raise then someone else is $2500 poorer?

Prove it.

Can you add? At any giving moment there is a finite amount of money in the system. If you got paid more, someone else is paid less.

And yes, I know that the money supply is growing -- but if your income is growing faster, then someone else's is growing slower.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You assume that because a person pays me $100 for a service that someone else in the country is $100 poorer? If I give my employees a 2500 dollar a year raise then someone else is $2500 poorer?

Prove it.

Can you add? At any giving moment there is a finite amount of money in the system. If you got paid more, someone else is paid less.

And yes, I know that the money supply is growing -- but if your income is growing faster, then someone else's is growing slower.

If there is a finite amount of money then tell me what that amount is.

And money is merely the medium of exchange. It's the products and services that make an economy. One dollar can be used to purchase multiple times it's one dollar's worth.

Hence the economy is not a zero sum game.

 

[ilia25]

If my pay went from 100K to 200K it has nothing to do with what you make.

In fact my wife and I have tripled our income in the past 5 years and no one has made any less because of it.

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

The zero sum game lie again.

Fuck off, you dickhead -- I told you million times that the economy is NOT a zero sum game, but you can still get twice as small piece of a twice bigger pie.

 

[Big Fitz]

I already answered that question. If your income grows faster than GDP, it could only happen if someone else's income grows slower -- or, indeed, is contracting.

And you know who those people are -- those whose labor is now valued less beacause yours is now valued more.

Again, that's what has been happening in the past 30 years -- GDP per capita doubled, but the median household income stayed the same, because all that additional income went to the rich households.

The zero sum game lie again.

Fuck off, you dickhead -- I told you million times that the economy is NOT a zero sum game, but you can still get twice as small piece of a twice bigger pie.

You can call it Susan if you want. It doesn't make it so. All evidence proves that.

 

[ilia25]

You assume that because a person pays me $100 for a service that someone else in the country is $100 poorer? If I give my employees a 2500 dollar a year raise then someone else is $2500 poorer?

Prove it.

Can you add? At any giving moment there is a finite amount of money in the system. If you got paid more, someone else is paid less.

And yes, I know that the money supply is growing -- but if your income is growing faster, then someone else's is growing slower.

If there is a finite amount of money then tell me what that amount is.

There are different measures, but M2 is about 8 trillions now.

And money is merely the medium of exchange. It's the products and services that make an economy.

Exactly, and if you can exchange your labour for more goods and services, then someone else's labour is valued less in goods and services -- means you getting richer and that guy is getting poorer.

Hence the economy is not a zero sum game.

It is not, the pie is getting bigger -- but if your piece is growing faster, then someone else is growing not as fast, or getting smaller:
1) The whole pie is $1000, you are getting 600, the other guy is left with 400
2) The pie grew twice to $2000, you are getting 1700, the other guy is getting only 300.

The pie got bigger -- not a zero sum game, but other guy is now poorer.

 

[Big Fitz]

Can you add? At any giving moment there is a finite amount of money in the system. If you got paid more, someone else is paid less.

And yes, I know that the money supply is growing -- but if your income is growing faster, then someone else's is growing slower.

If there is a finite amount of money then tell me what that amount is.

There are different measures, but M2 is about 8 trillions now.

And money is merely the medium of exchange. It's the products and services that make an economy.

Exactly, and if you can exchange your labour for more goods and services, then someone else's labour is valued less in goods and services -- means you getting richer and that guy is getting poorer.

Hence the economy is not a zero sum game.

It is not, the pie is getting bigger -- but if your piece is growing faster, then someone else is growing not as fast, or getting smaller:
1) The whole pie is $1000, you are getting 600, the other guy is left with 400
2) The pie grew twice to $2000, you are getting 1700, the other guy is getting only 300.

The pie got bigger -- not a zero sum game, but other guy is now poorer.

I see what he's trying to claim. That if the pie grows, poor people are robbed by the rich making them even poorer. It's not true of course, but he won't accept any other answer. Secondly, he seems to believe this to be a permanent state if it DID exist. Not to mention the false conclusion that anyone not rich gets less as the pie grows.

So it's a quartet of false philosophical arguments that have no evidence of being true.

1. The Rich rob the poor when there is economic growth.
2. The Rich keep all profit to themselves and it STAYS with them helping no one else.
3. Everyone remains locked in permanent class status with no mobility.
4. It is your business what someone else makes because somehow it affects you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Can you add? At any giving moment there is a finite amount of money in the system. If you got paid more, someone else is paid less.

And yes, I know that the money supply is growing -- but if your income is growing faster, then someone else's is growing slower.

If there is a finite amount of money then tell me what that amount is.

There are different measures, but M2 is about 8 trillions now.

And money is merely the medium of exchange. It's the products and services that make an economy.

Exactly, and if you can exchange your labour for more goods and services, then someone else's labour is valued less in goods and services -- means you getting richer and that guy is getting poorer.

Hence the economy is not a zero sum game.

It is not, the pie is getting bigger -- but if your piece is growing faster, then someone else is growing not as fast, or getting smaller:
1) The whole pie is $1000, you are getting 600, the other guy is left with 400
2) The pie grew twice to $2000, you are getting 1700, the other guy is getting only 300.

The pie got bigger -- not a zero sum game, but other guy is now poorer.

You are defining a zero sum game.

Zero-Sum Game Definition | Investopedia

A situation in which one participant's gains result only from another participant's equivalent losses. The net change in total wealth among participants is zero; the wealth is just shifted from one to another.