Zone1 Are Protestants part of the Catholic Church?

[The Irish Ram]

I have always had trouble with russian novels

Then don't read them...

 

[Meriweather]

Any of the churches fighting with any other, and including the catholics fighting between different sects.

Where is this fight? Is it happening today? If not, when was the last time it did happen?

 

[irosie91]

Then don't read them...

they are very classically terrific. I had trouble with---uhm---that Elizabethan
guy too-----uhm SHAKY something---but he was terrific

 

[Batcat]

Well, at NO Watch, someone said that Protestants are not part of the CC anyway.. and I tend to trust them at this point. I think that was one of the Vatican II teachings

I hate Vatican II.

Then there is Lefebvre who defied that Council and said that truth and error cannot peacefully co-exist or words to that effect.

I have found from experience that is so.

Catholics and Protestants attempting to talk to one another appears to be like oil and water.

Sometimes it is worse than just oil and water. Take Ireland as an example.

A black coworker I once had couldn’t figure the conflict in Ireland out. He said, “Both sides are the same color and believe in the same God. Why are they killing each other?“

Now I realize it is a lot more complicated than that but my coworker had a point.

I am not a member of any organized religion and as I have said before even though I have a Protestant background I can see parts if the Catholic faith that impress me and parts I disagree with. Of course when I look at the different branches of the Protestant faith I see parts I like and parts I disagree with.

Still in my opinion a good Catholic, a good Pentecostal and a good Mormon may all end up in heaven if they all have faith in Christ.

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9, NIV)

 

[notmyfault2020]

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9, NIV)

yes, but one can LOSE his salvation. If you have a moment like that Scrpture says.. accept him.. Believe in Him.. you will be saved. But you CAN lose your salvation and some protestants say otherwise.

Mortal sin is called mortal because it disconnects you from God who is absolutely holy. Venial sin does not disconnect you totally but need to be worked on.. or you can just give it to Jesus if you feel you cannot get anywhere overcoming it.. which we should do both at every step. But anyway..

What really boggles my mind is how a lot of nonCatholics here who have NO understanding of Catholicism will sit there and lecture a Catholic on what the Catholic Church teaches! And it is usually.. something like 95% of the time WRONG. Then when u try to correct their error, they just go on and on trying to pound it into you that.. NO, YOU are wrong.. and then spoutate their same old talking points in slightly different words and etc..

So I have this new policy: I am NOT speaking to anti-Catholics here who refuse to go through a RCIA class so as to know what the Church teaches.

Sad thing is, going to a NO Church is no guarantee you'll be taught TRUE Catholicism.. I suggest going to a sspx (Society of St Pius X) to learn about Catholicism. They have a few things wrong about why the pope is not acting like a pope but they have kept the Traditions of the Original Church andcan be trusted not to teach error in a RCIA class.

 

[Donald H]

Where is this fight? Is it happening today? If not, when was the last time it did happen?

I'm not completely informed on the infighting of the churches but at least some catholics have revealed a divide in the Catholic church here on this board.

And you yourself have often criticized or derided the other churches. The best thing I can do is encourage it.

Churches have been vanishing for years in Canada and I suspect also in the US but at a slower rate. Believers would be wise to lay aside their differences and find strength in uniting under one set of superstitious beliefs. If Catholics can't compromise then they can at least be silent on their differences. What difference would it make to the Genesis lies if one sect's set of lies is combined with some other cult's lies?

 

[Meriweather]

And you yourself have often criticized or derided the other churches. The best thing I can do is encourage it.

I do not deride any faith, denomination, or church. The closest I have come is a passionate criticism of the Church that performs proxy baptisms on the dead who lived another faith/denomination in their lifetime. I am still passionately against that practice.

My criticism focuses on the Catholic and Orthodox schism, and I have been going on and on about that for years. We hear at least once a year that Christ prayed (Last Supper) that his followers would remain one. I think this is the biggest hypocrisy committed by both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. The schism happened because of a language difference/barrier/misunderstanding between the Latin and the Greek. There is no reason for this schism to continue and I am deeply ashamed of both that it has.

Yes, I have also noted that if Catholic/Orthodox denominations happened to disappear from Christianity, I would turn to Judaism. The reason for this is I favor the disciplines of Judaism and am rather bored by, "Claim Jesus and be saved, and once saved always saved." I also know many denominations go beyond this simple formula.

Otherwise, (also as I often say) the Holy Spirit meets each individual where they are, and works from there no matter their faith or lack of faith.

 

[Meriweather]

and then spoutate their same old talking points in slightly different words and etc..

"Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still." (Mary Wollstonecraft)

 

[notmyfault2020]

"Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still." (Mary Wollstonecraft)

If words can convince people against their will..

something is wrong and I actually know what it is that's wrong

sin

People are too prideful to admit that maybe, just maybe they were wrong about something.. seems to particularly apply to religion for some reason

 

[Donald H]

I do not deride any faith, denomination, or church. The closest I have come is a passionate criticism of the Church that performs proxy baptisms on the dead who lived another faith/denomination in their lifetime. I am still passionately against that practice.

My criticism focuses on the Catholic and Orthodox schism, and I have been going on and on about that for years. We hear at least once a year that Christ prayed (Last Supper) that his followers would remain one. I think this is the biggest hypocrisy committed by both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. The schism happened because of a language difference/barrier/misunderstanding between the Latin and the Greek. There is no reason for this schism to continue and I am deeply ashamed of both that it has.

Yes, I have also noted that if Catholic/Orthodox denominations happened to disappear from Christianity, I would turn to Judaism. The reason for this is I favor the disciplines of Judaism and am rather bored by, "Claim Jesus and be saved, and once saved always saved." I also know many denominations go beyond this simple formula.

Otherwise, (also as I often say) the Holy Spirit meets each individual where they are, and works from there no matter their faith or lack of faith.

You yourself are criticizing the Catholic church on several counts right here! You feel your criticism is just, while other Catholics will criticize for different reasons you will condemn.

You've succeeded in letting others know that your connection to the Catholic church is fragile and conditional!

 

[Batcat]

Oyes, but one can LOSE his salvation. If you have a moment like that Scrpture says.. accept him.. Believe in Him.. you will be saved. But you CAN lose your salvation and some protestants say otherwise.

Mortal sin is called mortal because it disconnects you from God who is absolutely holy. Venial sin does not disconnect you totally but need to be worked on.. or you can just give it to Jesus if you feel you cannot get anywhere overcoming it.. which we should do both at every step. But anyway..

What really boggles my mind is how a lot of nonCatholics here who have NO understanding of Catholicism will sit there and lecture a Catholic on what the Catholic Church teaches! And it is usually.. something like 95% of the time WRONG. Then when u try to correct their error, they just go on and on trying to pound it into you that.. NO, YOU are wrong.. and then spoutate their same old talking points in slightly different words and etc..

So I have this new policy: I am NOT speaking to anti-Catholics here who refuse to go through a RCIA class so as to know what the Church teaches.

Sad thing is, going to a NO Church is no guarantee you'll be taught TRUE Catholicism.. I suggest going to a sspx (Society of St Pius X) to learn about Catholicism. They have a few things wrong about why the pope is not acting like a pope but they have kept the Traditions of the Original Church andcan be trusted not to teach error in a RCIA class.

I see your point about mortal sin.

Suppose a Catholic was working in a management position in a Nazi death camp during WWII and was picking which people to save and which to send to the gas chamber. Now if he confessed his actions as sinful to a priest would he then be saved? Could he confess his sin of picking people to be gassed on Sunday and go back to work picking more people to die on Monday? What if he waited 20 years to confess his sin, long after the war ended?

Let’s suppose he wasn’t in management but was just a soldier whose job it was to turn the valve to release the gas?

I am not trying to be facetious here. Those are serious questions.

However it does seem the Catholic Church has a long list of mortal sins. I read through the following list and if it applies to me as basically a Protestant, I am definitely headed to Hell. I can feel the heat of the flames already.

List of Mortal Sins Every Catholic Should Know – St. Mary of the Seven Dolors

stmaryofthesevendolors.com

I find myself wondering if a person will be judged by what he believes. A Catholic may have to worry about mortal sins but a Protestant who has never heard of the concept, not so much.

Note also that is not my goal to convince Catholics or Protestants to change their religion. I place the belief in Christ and his resurrection by God to offer us the opportunity to go to heaven as the most important items.

 

[Meriweather]

You've succeeded in letting others know that your connection to the Catholic church is fragile and conditional!

Grin. How is that? Are you saying I must be for the Schism else I am a fragile, conditional Catholic?

 

[Meriweather]

Suppose a Catholic was working in a management position in a Nazi death camp during WWII and was picking which people to save and which to send to the gas chamber. Now if he confessed his actions as sinful to a priest would he then be saved? Could he confess his sin of picking people to be gassed on Sunday and go back to work picking more people to die on Monday? What if he waited 20 years to confess his sin, long after the war ended?

Repentance, meaning turning away from that sin. This is where the heart comes into play. Under similar circumstances would he do the same thing? Or, did he see the horror of what he had done to others and to his own soul to the point not under any circumstances would he do anything like it again?

 

[Donald H]

The Pope Would Like You to Accept Evolution and the Big Bang

The Roman Catholic Church is pro-evolution and Big Bang, but with a twist

www.smithsonianmag.com

Being pro-evolution with a twist.

And representing a huge divide of the flock!

 

[Meriweather]

I am definitely headed to Hell. I can feel the heat of the flames already.

Really. So you committed sins knowing they would separate you from God, and you embraced this separation willingly? In other words, you choose to spend an eternity committing this sin(s) over being with God?

 

[Donald H]

Grin. How is that? Are you saying I must be for the Schism else I am a fragile, conditional Catholic?

No, you admitted yourself that you're considering leaving the Catholic church.

The fact is Meriweather, the flock is all over the map with its beliefs, and you have your own set of misgivings.

But the clincher by far is the deserting of the creation myth with a modified version of evolution being summoned up, to suit some of the facts of modern science.

 

[Meriweather]

Being pro-evolution with a twist.

And representing a huge divide of the flock!

Doubtful. This was discussed in my grandmother's day. Even back then the Church noted that people could believe in evolution or a six 24-hour day creation event. Neither would/should change their belief/faith in Christ.

My grandmother chose evolution. My mom was more a creation in six literal days believer.

It represents no divide at all, let alone a huge divide. It has been going on for decades.

 

[Meriweather]

No, you admitted yourself that you're considering leaving the Catholic church.

You may wish to reread my post. I said IF the Catholic/Orthodox Church CEASED TO EXIST, I would choose Judaism over non-Catholic Christianity. Do you really think the Catholic Church will cease to exist? I don't.

With this the reality, I have never considered leaving the Catholic Church, considered not attending Mass, considered not living the Sacraments. The Church dropped me directly into the lap-of-God (so-to-speak). Nothing I have seen in non-Catholic Christianity would have gotten me there. There are aspects of Judaism that may have been able to.

 

[Donald H]

Really. So you committed sins knowing they would separate you from God, and you embraced this separation willingly? In other words, you choose to spend an eternity committing this sin(s) over being with God?

Who gave you the right to pick and choose what constitutes a sin and what is now accepted by the heads of the churches?

In the opinion of many Christians, the Catholic church's acceptance of Darwinian evolution 'with a twist' would have to be the ultimate sin!

Are you buying that Meriweather? I think the jig's up and all that's left is to justify modern beliefs with some excuses.

 

[Meriweather]

The fact is Meriweather, the flock is all over the map with its beliefs, and you have your own set of misgivings.

Misgivings? Hardly. I think the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have the capability of ending the schism any time they chose. Encouraging them to take this action, and criticizing that they haven't already, is hardly a misgiving about the Church.

It is a strength of the Catholic Church--and one we are proud of--that many of the Saints were in fierce disagreement with one another. We are not a faith that marches lock-step at every point--and are not taught to be.