Confederate Statue Removers Are Soldier Haters

[Pogo]

More likely they're haters of racism and bigotry, which is the environment whence all these statues and monuments came.

They don't date from the Civil War or just-after. They date from the turn of the century, the period of this country's worst nadir of bigotry, racism, lynchings, Jim Crow, the resurrection of the Klan, "Birth of a Nation", race rioting and rampant discrimination. All branches of the same tree, all there to serve the cause of White Supremacy. In fact the Klan itself set some of them up.

So it would seem they're haters of bigotry, racism, lynchings, Jim Crow, the Klan, "whites only", the "gentleman's agreement" that kept blacks out of baseball for six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, the Klan, and everything that feeds that sewer.

"Soldiers" doesn't even enter into it. That's just a shield the bigots hide behind.

Shall we now "defend" the other expressions of the time and bring back the Klan? "Colored" public water fountains? Ban blacks from baseball?

Context, m'boy, context. You're standing in a forest. Quit gazing at a single tree.

Hate and bigotry doesn't even enter into it. The statues are of SOLDIERS - who had nothjing to do with the any hateful policies. You want to bitch about policies go after politicians.

The soldiers didn't put those statues up. The statues didn't put themselves up. You go look up who did put them up, and why.

By the way, know who was president of a college just after the Civil War that had its own Klan chapter that would abduct and rape nearby black schoolgirls?

Robert E. Lee.

That's a good story you should right for Rolling Stone.

I suspect they have editors who know how to spell write.

 

[Slash]

Has anyone asked the question why the Civil War monuments were not a problem during Obama’s 8 years as President?

Interesting question. Well, monument removers ? Care to answer ?

Not sure what you mean. There were plenty of monuments and flags removed under Obama. School names changed. More under him than any other president from what I can see. In fact, looks like the statues/flags/renaming under Obama's 8 years outdoes the 100 years previous COMBINED. Were you in a coma during that Church shooting and the reactions to it?

 

[protectionist]

Once AGIAN Emily ----- nothing I've posted advocates "banning" or "tearing down" anything. You're still not reading.

DO NOT put words in my mouth.

So what DO you advocate ? Are for allowing the monuments to remain standing where they are ?

 

[Pogo]

I'm not a "monument remover" but this has been going on for decades, and escalated right after Dylann Roof did his thing. Immediately after that Nikky Haley and the SC state leg took down the Confederate flag. That was 2015, when O'bama still had a year and a half left. It was also right after that that this state (the other Carolina) passed a law prohibiting local municipalities from deciding the fate of the monuments on their turf. Like Charlottesville did, like New Orleans did.
.

If Charlottesville has a law "prohibiting local municipalities from deciding the fate of the monuments on their turf", then why are they talking about doing just that ?

Never said Charlottesville has such a law. I said NORTH CAROLINA does.

Literacy is a lost art.

 

[protectionist]

Not sure what you mean. There were plenty of monuments and flags removed under Obama. School names changed. More under him than any other president from what I can see. In fact, looks like the statues/flags/renaming under Obama's 8 years outdoes the 100 years previous COMBINED. Were you in a coma during that Church shooting and the reactions to it?

Got a link to anything about monument removal during Obama's years ? If so, let's hear it.

It sure wasn't talked about much then - not like now.

 

[Pogo]

Once AGIAN Emily ----- nothing I've posted advocates "banning" or "tearing down" anything. You're still not reading.

DO NOT put words in my mouth.

So what DO you advocate ? Are for allowing the monuments to remain standing where they are ?

In terms of actions, I don't "advocate" a god damn thing, Snuggles. Except for freaking LEARNING ONE'S HISTORY, which is exactly what I've been positing this entire time that y'all have been reading right past because it's not what you want or expect to read.

I don't write shit people already know. That would be a waste of time.

 

[Slash]

What does that have to do with 99% of the war being fought in South against outside invaders ? Are you relling me about the other 1%. If so, why ?

What do you mean outside invaders. #1 the Supreme Court ruled that it was rebellion, not secession. You may disagree with that, but I'm not going to rip up the Constitution when I disagree with it.

#2. They took over every base, mint, weapons cache, ship, port, federal bank (and the money) that they could find. All ceded by those states to the Federal Government. Some guy takes off with a bunch of nuclear subs, we'd better stop him.

#3 the bombed Ft Sumter for 24 hours to start the war. If someone decides to bomb American Troops on an American base, I want us to declare war against them. And not stop till they've surrendered.

 

[protectionist]

Never said Charlottesville has such a law. I said NORTH CAROLINA does.

Literacy is a lost art.

"Like Charlottesville did,"

Your words, not mine.

 

[protectionist]

In terms of actions, I don't "advocate" a god damn thing, Snuggles. Except for freaking LEARNING ONE'S HISTORY, which is exactly what I've been positing this entire time that y'all have been reading right past because it's not what you want or expect to read.

I don't write shit people already know. That would be a waste of time.

When you get around to advocating, let us know, OK ? This thread isn't about knitting.

 

[Slash]

Not sure what you mean. There were plenty of monuments and flags removed under Obama. School names changed. More under him than any other president from what I can see. In fact, looks like the statues/flags/renaming under Obama's 8 years outdoes the 100 years previous COMBINED. Were you in a coma during that Church shooting and the reactions to it?

Got a link to anything about monument removal during Obama's years ? If so, let's hear it.

It sure wasn't talked about much then - not like now.

Nope it wasn't. We didn't have nazi's feeling empowered coming out of the woodwork against it.

Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia


There's a little list. Obviously most have been added in the past week or so. But what is there? 7 or 8 things in the Obama presidency. 0 before that listed?

 

[protectionist]

[
What do you mean outside invaders. .

I'll give you 2 examples >>

1. Invaders from Pennsylvania traveling hundreds of miles to attack Florida.

2. Invaders from Massachusetts traveling hundreds of miles to attack Alabama.

gee that was tough, huh ?

 

[Pogo]

And one more thing -- about these monuments and "soldiers"...............

​

A larger image would be nice if available, but if it's hard to read it says:

"Accepting the arbitrament of war, they preserved the Anglo-Saxon civilization of the South and became master builders in a re-united country"​

Maybe not so re-united huh. Can't imagine why.
Ironically at the bottom it says "Veritas Vincit" ("truth prevails"). Again, maybe not.

That's in Charlotte. Doesn't get much more right to the point I just made about historical context than that. Same time period.

Nobody ever said EVERY monument was acceptable. It is the ones that simply are statues of SOLDIERS, that this thread is about. SOLDIERS, not policies. If you can't stay on topic, Mr Straw Man, I'm going to have to report it.

First of all, fuck you and your empty threats trying to shut down discourse.

Second, once again, the statue that actually was pulled down outside the scope of authority, was not of a soldier. And the other statue they threw a hood over ---- wasn't either.

Neither of those is the one pictured above, but that --- and the two just mentioned, and most if not all of these targets --- all emanate from the same period of Lost Cause revisionism, usually pushed by the UDC. Again that's the same cultural-historical revisionism that brought us "The Clansman", "The Birth of a Nation", the re-birth of the Klan itself, a spike in Jim Crow laws, a spike in lynchings, and a spike in race riots. All from the same source, as I've demonstrated profusely. This ain't about "soldiers". This is about whitewashing history and pushing white supremacy, a century ago. Your job now is to decide how you value that push.

That marker above has also been defaced over the years btw. I posted a clean picture so you can see what it says. And you'll notice it's the same "protect the Anglo-Saxon" crapola as the speech given in 1913 for Silent Sam, the statue that was hooded last week.

 

[Pogo]

>> The 1890s, when the UDC was founded and monument building began in earnest, was a decade of virulent racism across the South. Not content to disenfranchise black men, Southern whites went on a lynching spree. Ida B. Wells, the African American journalist and anti-lynching crusader, documented 186 lynchings of black people in 1893 alone — mostly men but women and children, too. As she wrote in her account “The Red Record,” these “scenes of unusual brutality failed to have any visible effect upon the humane sentiments of the people of our land.” *

Violence against blacks only increased in the early decades of the 20th century. In addition to continued lynching across the South, the Atlanta race riot of 1906 demonstrated how seriously white men took their supremacy over African Americans: An estimated 10,000 white men and boys in the city went after black men, beating dozens to death and injuring hundreds more.

Amid that brutality, the pace of Confederate monument construction quickened. The UDC and other like-minded heritage organizations were intent on honoring the Confederate generation and establishing a revisionist history of what they called the War Between the States. According to this Lost Cause mythology, the South went to war to defend states’ rights, slavery was essentially a benevolent institution that imparted Christianity to African “savages,” and, while the Confederates were defeated, theirs was a just cause and those who fought were heroes. The Daughters regarded the Ku Klux Klan, which had been founded to resist Reconstruction, as a heroic organization, necessary to return order to the South. Order, of course, meant the use of violence to subdue newly freed blacks.

During the era of Jim Crow, Confederate monuments could be placed most anywhere. Some were in cemeteries or parks, but far more were erected on the grounds of local and state courthouses. These monuments, then, not only represented reverence for soldiers who fought in a war to defend slavery, they also made a very pointed statement about the rule of white supremacy: All who enter the courthouse are subject to the laws of white men. << -- Karen Cox, Professor of History, UNC Charlotte, author of “Goat Castle: A True Story of Murder, Race, and the Gothic South”
​

* - see the aforementioned thread "Lynching in America"

You should know attachmed images don't show up here. I could make them show up but it's not worth the work.
If you have an actual point to make about my post, grow a pair and make one.

 

[protectionist]

Nope it wasn't. We didn't have nazi's feeling empowered coming out of the woodwork against it.

Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia


There's a little list. Obviously most have been added in the past week or so. But what is there? 7 or 8 things in the Obama presidency. 0 before that listed?

"Nazis" is nothing more than a straw man deflection, to divert attention away from the dishonoring of soldiers, and change the debate into something different. Typical lefitist tactic. Ho hum.

BTW, the actions of the leftist counterprotesters blocking streets, attacking legal permit-granted marchers, suppressing their free speech >> PURE NAZISM. Those antifa, or whatever they're called, are the Nazis (big time)

 

[Pogo]

The soldiers had a choice...

They could allow themselves to be shot at, have their buildings and bridges destroyed, churches burned down, farms (crops & animals) destroyed, ..............or they could DEFEND themselves and shoot back. And if YOU were the one having all this done to you, you would do what. Calmly say "thank you" ?

There was another Choice. Since most of them did not own slaves they could have refused to leave the union. They could have rebelled against the rich slave holders and said no. But instead they drank the kool- aid and went off to fight and die for the fiends who brought slaves in to take their jobs. If the masses of average southerners had stayed loyal to the union the Civil War would never have happened...they would nevet have had to worry about having their homes razed or any of the other consequences of losing a war.

A chunk of counties in western Virginia did just that -- seceded from Virginia when it seceded from the US, which is how we got West Virginia.

Another chunk of counties in East Tennessee, which was firmly against secession, tried to do the same thing. But they were coerced and cowed by Confederate military.

Secession and Confederacy was by NO means universal in the South. It was divisive, often forced, and ridiculously chaotic. Anyone who wants a glimpse of how chaotic should have a peek at the workings of the Confederate Congress.

 

[protectionist]

First of all, fuck you and your empty threats trying to shut down discourse.

Second, once again, the statue that actually was pulled down outside the scope of authority, was not of a soldier. And the other statue they threw a hood over ---- wasn't either.

Neither of those is the one pictured above, but that --- and the two just mentioned, and most if not all of these targets --- all emanate from the same period of Lost Cause revisionism, usually pushed by the UDC. Again that's the same cultural-historical revisionism that brought us "The Clansman", "The Birth of a Nation", the re-birth of the Klan itself, a spike in Jim Crow laws, a spike in lynchings, and a spike in race riots. All from the same source, as I've demonstrated profusely. This ain't about "soldiers". This is about whitewashing history and pushing white supremacy, a century ago. Your job now is to decide how you value that push.

That marker above has also been defaced over the years btw. I posted a clean picture so you can see what it says. And you'll notice it's the same "protect the Anglo-Saxon" crapola as the speech given in 1913 for Silent Sam, the statue that was hooded last week.

I warned you about going OF TOPIC. Now you've been reported. And watch your language too. No reason to go prog=fane on here.

 

[protectionist]

You should know attachmed images don't show up here. I could make them show up but it's not worth the work.
If you have an actual point to make about my post, grow a pair and make one.

don't know what you're talking about. I've been ripping your posts for 2 days now.

 

[Pogo]

Has anyone asked the question why the Civil War monuments were not a problem during Obama’s 8 years as President?

Yeah we did that. The answer was, and still is, that it's a false premise -- they have been the subject of controversy, and the targets of vandalism, for decades. The fact that you're just now waking up to them is irrelevant.

The other side of current events, of course, is that O'bama wasn't sitting there encouraging Nazis and forgetting who David Duke is and describing Klan skinheads as "fine people", so instead of alt-white rallies that element focused on photoshopping pictures of O'bama with a bone through his nose. Which if you think about it is far less violent than crushing people with a Dodge Challenger or beating a special education teacher with poles because he's black.

Same element, different manifestations. Lately we see what happens to those manifestations when a POTUS dresses up as a cheerleader for these losers.

 

[Pogo]

It's not self-defense when you START the war.

As for the 13 colonies....it was considered treason by England and guess what would have happened to the leaders if England had prevailed.

The North was too lenient on the traitor con-federate leaders after the war.

So you're going to talk at me after I told you I'm too busy for you now ? That's like attacking someone whose hands are tied. Have a little integrity.

You seem to spend a lot of time in this thread trying to shut people up when they make points you can't handle.

Maybe you should go buy a Tiki torch.

 

[Pogo]

I can't even follow this incoherency. If you can't make your point in a paragraph, nobody's going to read it, not even if it's addressed to them. What the hell does Ted Kennedy have to do with the White Supremacy movement?

I don't advocate "removal" or "censor" of anything. I'm simply educating the OP on his misdefinition of what the root causes are.

What the hell does White supremacy movement have to do with SOLDIERS' statues ? (if there even IS any ws "movement")

Hope my question educates YOU a little bit.

Excellent question...why did the White supremacy movement MAKE the Charlottesville statue of Lee their business?

Indeed. It's the same reason the same element put all those statues and monuments up in the first place.