Could Trump Actually Deport 11 Million People?

[charwin95]

What an excuse......... Here's the cut and paste. I'm not fooling you......... Because you are already fooooolish as it is.


Like most of the founding generation, Cr?vecoeur believed the sheer size of the new nation meant for a prosperous future. But he was also celebrating an attitude of openness, a willingness to embrace new citizens from around the world into what he called the "melting pot" of American society.
The embrace of openness has survived, in spite of occasional outbreaks of anti-immigrant sentiment, for the intervening two and a half centuries. The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact. (A fact for which, as an immigrant from the Old Country, I am grateful). My wife is American, and my high schoolers have had U.S. passports since being born in London. Right now I’m applying for U.S. citizenship. I want America to be my home, not just my residence. My story is of course very different to most immigrants – but the point is, all of our stories are different. What unites us is our desire to be American.

But this spirit may be waning. Thanks only in part to Donald Trump, immigration is near the top of the political agenda - and not in a good way.

Trump has brilliantly exploited the imagery of The Wall to tap into the frustrations of white middle America. But America needs immigration. At the most banal level, this is a question of math. We need more young workers to fund the old age of the Baby Boomers. Overall, immigrants are good for the economy, as a recent summary of research from Brookings' Hamilton Project shows.

Of course, while immigration might be good for the economy as a whole, that does not mean it is good for everyone. Competition for wages and jobs will impact negatively on some existing residents, who may be more economically vulnerable in the first place. Policymakers keen to promote the benefits of immigration should also be attentive to its costs.

But the value of immigration cannot be reduced to an actuarial table or spreadsheet. Immigrants do not simply make America better off. They make America better. Immigrants provide a shot in the nation's arm.

Immigrants are now twice as likely to start a new business as native-born Americans. While rates of entrepreneurialism are declining among natives, they are rising among immigrants. Immigrant children typically show extraordinary upward mobility, in terms of income, occupation and education. Among children born in Los Angeles to poorly-educated Chinese immigrants, for example, an astonishing 70% omplete a four-year-college degree.
As the work of my Brookings colleague William Frey shows, immigrants are migrants within the U. S., too, moving on from traditional immigrant cities -- New York and Los Angeles -- to other towns and cities in search of a better future.

New Americans are true Americans. We need more of them. But Trump is tapping directly and dangerously into white fears of an America growing steadily browner. According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, more than four in ten white seniors say that a growing population of immigrants is a “change for the worse;” half of white boomers believe immigration is “a threat to traditional American customs and values.”

Immigration gets at a deep question of American identity in the 21st century. Just like people, societies age. They might also settle down, lose some dynamism. They might trade a little less openness for a little more security. In other words, they get a bit stuck in their ways. Immigrants generate dynamism and aspiration, but they are also unsettling and challenging.

Where this debate ends will therefore tell us a great deal about the trajectory of the nation. An America that closes its doors will be an America that has chosen to settle down rather than grow, allowing security to eclipse dynamism.

Disruption is not costless. But America has always weighed the benefits of dynamism and diversity more heavily. Immigration is an important way in which America hits the refresh button and renews herself. Without immigration, the nation would not only be worse off, but would cease, in some elemental sense, to be America at all.

So the article title claims to talk about what America would be like without immigrants.

Nothing in there tells that.

There are a lot unsupported assertions, such as "The United States remains an immigrant nation, in spirit as well as in fact."

or "New Americans are true Americans".


But there are no descriptions of what this immigrant-less America would look like.

Would there be a smaller population? Would we have never taken California from Mexico, or not bought Alaska from Russia?

Would Fish and CHips be our national dish?



That you could read an article claiming to tell what America would look like without immigrants, and not notice that the article tells NOTHING about what America would look like without immigrants,

demonstrates that you accept what your Authority Figures ie the Media tells you WITHOUT QUESTION.

Blind partisanship.

Scared? Better adopt.

NOthing in your post addressed anything in my post.

My point stands, the article was nothing but partisan blather, and that you thought it was impressive does nothing but remove the last vestiges of your credibility.

Cry me river....... I've known you as a racist and your hatred against all minorities. What that tells you about your credibility?

My point stands, the article was nothing but partisan blather, and that you thought it was impressive does nothing but remove the last vestiges of your credibility.


You want to disagree?

Post the description from the article on what America would look like without immigrants.

Hint: you can't because it isn't there.

So, now you dodge, and lie.

I understand your point stand as a racist.... That's a given fact.
I don't dodge and lie like you. Do you think we have enough white Americans that can do all these jobs without immigrants? You are living in a fantasy world.

 

[charwin95]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

Jake , the problem with your position is the sheer hypocrisy of it. Liberals like yourself are adamant about the minimum wage, yet defend a position which demands that employers hire employees who won't be paid the minimum wage in order to make any sense.

Those agriculture farms should be paying the min wage. PERIOD. Whether that be to citizens or non citizens. Obviously if they have to pay the min wage that would disappear the argument of allowing illegals to remain in this country. Quite the conundrum you've found yourself in.

Farmers hire H1A workers........ That is far better than paying minimum wage....... How about janitorials in hospitals and incorporate world?
They get paid better than minimum wages...... There are no excuses.

 

[charwin95]

Vaccination Rates Among Immigrants Are a Legitimate Concern

Vaccination Rates Among Immigrants Are a Legitimate Concern


By CIS, February 9, 2015

FacebookTwitterGoogle+EmailPrintFriendly


The spread of measles in the United States is undoubtedly driven by insufficient vaccination among natives. But this does not mean that the vaccination rate among immigrant groups is unimportant, or that one must be "anti-immigrant" to worry about it. In fact, low vaccination rates in the United States, regrettable as they are, make it all the more important to be vigilant about what diseases may be carried across our borders. It is probably not a coincidence that the current outbreak has been traced to Disneyland, which is a common destination for international travelers.

Some advocates of mass immigration seem to regard any such concern as illegitimate, at least when it comes to immigrants from Latin America. A recent post on the Think Progress blog ridicules Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) for suggesting that the outbreak of measles has its origin south of the border. Think Progress cites 2012 data from the World Health Organization (WHO) that show the measles vaccination rate in Mexico is 99 percent — much better than the U.S. rate of 92 percent — and that vaccination rates in most Central American nations exceed the U.S. rate as well.

But how reliable are those numbers? The WHO's vaccination estimates are oddly lower in 2013 for Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama:



Measles Vaccination Rate Estimates (Percent of Population)

Source: World Health Organization.

Irrelevant, if they aren't being cleared from a medical standpoint, you don't know if they've had vaccinations or not.

In a third world countries like Mexico or others........... When vaccinations are required it's mandated....... forcefully. Government medical agencies go to provinces, town barrios then vaccinate everyone. Because most do not have a way to travel to clinics or cities...... That's always been the practice for decades. But some groups of people in Africa mandated vaccine believe they make them impotent so they cannot breed.

 

[charwin95]

Watch Correll as a lying far right nativist wiggle around.

Trump's back walking his anti-immigrant speech is news as you well know.

And it has been repeatedly reported on the board that Hispanics from south of the border have higher rates of vaccinations then Americans.

You could back that up with links, right?

Dude there are lots of happening in this world that does not have a link.......
That doesn't mean it's no true.......... Vaccinations in third world countries are mandated forcefully.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Vaccination Rates Among Immigrants Are a Legitimate Concern

Vaccination Rates Among Immigrants Are a Legitimate Concern


By CIS, February 9, 2015

FacebookTwitterGoogle+EmailPrintFriendly


The spread of measles in the United States is undoubtedly driven by insufficient vaccination among natives. But this does not mean that the vaccination rate among immigrant groups is unimportant, or that one must be "anti-immigrant" to worry about it. In fact, low vaccination rates in the United States, regrettable as they are, make it all the more important to be vigilant about what diseases may be carried across our borders. It is probably not a coincidence that the current outbreak has been traced to Disneyland, which is a common destination for international travelers.

Some advocates of mass immigration seem to regard any such concern as illegitimate, at least when it comes to immigrants from Latin America. A recent post on the Think Progress blog ridicules Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) for suggesting that the outbreak of measles has its origin south of the border. Think Progress cites 2012 data from the World Health Organization (WHO) that show the measles vaccination rate in Mexico is 99 percent — much better than the U.S. rate of 92 percent — and that vaccination rates in most Central American nations exceed the U.S. rate as well.

But how reliable are those numbers? The WHO's vaccination estimates are oddly lower in 2013 for Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama:



Measles Vaccination Rate Estimates (Percent of Population)

Source: World Health Organization.

Irrelevant, if they aren't being cleared from a medical standpoint, you don't know if they've had vaccinations or not.

In a third world countries like Mexico or others........... When vaccinations are required it's mandated....... forcefully. Government medical agencies go to provinces, town barrios then vaccinate everyone. Because most do not have a way to travel to clinics or cities...... That's always been the practice for decades. But some groups of people in Africa mandated vaccine believe they make them impotent so they cannot breed.

ChrisL has a trouble with facts.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact is that there are plenty of unskilled workers in America who are losing out on jobs to illegals because employers can skirt the laws by employing them. People gave good examples of this in this thread . . . those who mentioned hiring illegals to do their landscaping or housecleaning because it is "cheaper." Ta da!!! There's the proof in front of your eyes.

How do you justify denying labor the same right to migration as capital currently possesses?

I agree there are many urban jobs lost to domestic labor because immigrants work cheaper and harder. Farm labor is an entirely separate beast, imho.

Neither capital or labor has any "right" to cross borders.

Such a "right" would violate the Right of Self Determination.

I disagree. If you want to move your money overseas, the government has no authority to stop you. You have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit.

I was thinking more of the people in the land where you want to invest.

Maybe the People of Buttfukastan don't trust Americans and don't want Americans doing ANYTHING IN THEIR country.

IMO, they have that right.

Yes, they have that right. However, most countries have the opposite attitude. They want foreign investment.

 

[bripat9643]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

Yes, exactly, dumbfuck. So how can you claim illegal aliens don't drive down the wages of American citizens?

 

[bripat9643]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

You keep saying Americans don't work hard . . . that is untrue. Your personal experiences don't count. We are amongst the top when it comes to work hours. We don't get a "nappy time" like they do in other countries either. Lol.

Illegal immigrants will vote Democrat the moment they are naturalized. That's the one and only reason douche bags like Charwin95 support open borders.

 

[bripat9643]

In a word, Y-E-S

Trump Isn’t Bluffing, He’ll Deport 11 Million People

"Legally, there’s nothing to it.

"Trump doesn’t need an act of Congress.

"He doesn’t even have to sign an executive order.

"All he’ll have to do to set this outrage in motion is pick up the phone and tell the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement to do his or her job: enforce the law.

"Camps cost money. So do more agents. No problem.

"President Trump can shift his budget priorities in favor of ICE.

"He’s already said he would triple ICE’s enforcement division from 5,000 to 15,000 officers.

"The FBI would have to pitch in."

Sure, the optics of the biggest forced population movement since Stalin would present problems, and it isn't too likely countries of origin would be thrilled about receiving millions of bitter, unemployed new arrivals, but could Trump actually deliver on his promise?

What happens to his administration if he can't?

that would mean they would have to capture 734 illegals each that would meant it would take two years at what cost ... if they paid each person 50,000 dollars a year it would cost the government 1,500,000,000 thats just in salaries ... now they have to go through the court system, when they are incarcerated, each year whats that cost I remember reading 65,000 dollars a year thats 1,430,000,000,000 dollars talk about spenders is it worth it

They only need to be incarcerated a few days until their hearing. Then on the bus back to Mexico they go. Total cost? Maybe $500.

 

[bripat9643]

I disagree. If you want to move your money overseas, the government has no authority to stop you. You have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit.

After you pay your fair share of taxes. In spite of libertarian entitlement theory, citizens of a state have no absolute property right over any natural resource. Wealth acquired from natural resources is not created in isolation; it is as much a product of society as it is the rugged individual.

hmmm, sorry, that's just obvious bullshit. Wealth is always produced by mixing labor with land (natural resources) If land doesn't belong to a person, it belongs to no one. We all know how that works out. everyone exploits the resource to the point of exhaustion. Common ownership is a principle that doesn't work in the real world. That means private ownership, because it's the only workable alternative.

 

[bripat9643]

In a word, Y-E-S

Trump Isn’t Bluffing, He’ll Deport 11 Million People

"Legally, there’s nothing to it.

"Trump doesn’t need an act of Congress.

"He doesn’t even have to sign an executive order.

"All he’ll have to do to set this outrage in motion is pick up the phone and tell the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement to do his or her job: enforce the law.

"Camps cost money. So do more agents. No problem.

"President Trump can shift his budget priorities in favor of ICE.

"He’s already said he would triple ICE’s enforcement division from 5,000 to 15,000 officers.

"The FBI would have to pitch in."

Sure, the optics of the biggest forced population movement since Stalin would present problems, and it isn't too likely countries of origin would be thrilled about receiving millions of bitter, unemployed new arrivals, but could Trump actually deliver on his promise?

What happens to his administration if he can't?

that would mean they would have to capture 734 illegals each that would meant it would take two years at what cost ... if they paid each person 50,000 dollars a year it would cost the government 1,500,000,000 thats just in salaries ... now they have to go through the court system, when they are incarcerated, each year whats that cost I remember reading 65,000 dollars a year thats 1,430,000,000,000 dollars talk about spenders is it worth it

Your sudden lib concern about government spending is...

hard to take seriously.

Well, honestly, I don't think rounding them all up and deporting them at taxpayer expense is a very feasible solution. There are other more cost effective ways of taking away the incentives from them so that there is nothing to gain by coming here in the first place. Also, some of those measures would be incentive for those who are living here with established lives here to become legal citizens.

There are also many other reasons why NOT to support illegals. They have no real paper trails, no medical records, a lot of times they may use SS numbers that don't belong to them, when they commit a crime they can't be traced, they may or may not have been vaccinated against certain diseases, etc., etc., etc. You would THINK these things would be common sense, but apparently common sense is not very common.

1. I see no reason why it is not feasible. THe real issue is stopping them from coming BACK. Hence the Wall and enforced e-verify.

2. Your point(s) on Common Sense are spot on. The only problem with Common Sense is how uncommon it is.

Stopping them from coming here in the first place is the most important objective. As we've seen, once they manage to arrive, getting rid of them is a huge political and logistical task. That's why the open-borders crowd prefers "solutions" like employer penalties and why they oppose the wall. The leftwing douche bags will always try to make the illegals look like sympathetic victims. That can't happen if they never make it across the border.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't have to live like that, I'm a native born US citizen.

That's the point. They are NOT US citizens and shouldn't just be able to come over here illegally and enjoy the benefits of such.

But then again, you are a dumb fuck, so no one expects you to understand that .

Hey slapdick my point is if you did live like that .
Your citizenship is no guarantee of benefits.
Should is irrelevant .
Attempt to stay in reality.

Actually dumb shit, my citizenship IS a guarantee of rights. That's the entire fucking point of the 13th,14th,and 15th fucking Amendments.

Come on, you morons make this too fucking easy.

Actually slapdick it's a promise and depending on the situation it's not always kept.
There's that pesky reality again.

Actually, moron, it's not a "promise." The Constitution is the law of the land. It's not some Dim political platform.

False ! The law is also a promise.

Wrong.

 

[charwin95]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

When NAFTA allowed US corporate farms to dump tons of cheap corn into Mexico's "free market", millions of Mexicans living on small farms were no longer able to feed their families. Their choice amounted to migration or starvation.
What would you have done?

These people are so ignorant..... Do you think they even understand that?

 

[charwin95]

Correll, your "we" is about 1/2 of the Republican Party.

Half the republican party did not write and pass our immigration laws.

Because they are dumb and ignorant that they EVEN REFUSED TO REFORM THE IMMIGRATION.

 

[georgephillip]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

When NAFTA allowed US corporate farms to dump tons of cheap corn into Mexico's "free market", millions of Mexicans living on small farms were no longer able to feed their families. Their choice amounted to migration or starvation.
What would you have done?

I don't blame them one bit for wanting to come here. I blame our government for allowing it.

Do you blame our government for creating the choice between starvation or migration?

No, I blame the Mexican government for creating their own economy that the poor are desperate to get away from.

The Mexican government does only as it's told:

 

[daws101]

Hey slapdick my point is if you did live like that .
Your citizenship is no guarantee of benefits.
Should is irrelevant .
Attempt to stay in reality.

Actually dumb shit, my citizenship IS a guarantee of rights. That's the entire fucking point of the 13th,14th,and 15th fucking Amendments.

Come on, you morons make this too fucking easy.

Actually slapdick it's a promise and depending on the situation it's not always kept.
There's that pesky reality again.

Actually, moron, it's not a "promise." The Constitution is the law of the land. It's not some Dim political platform.

False ! The law is also a promise.

Wrong.

False
promise

 

[georgephillip]

Why don't ONE of you explain why you want to have illegal immigrants in this country, if not for the cheap slave labor?

When NAFTA allowed US corporate farms to dump tons of cheap corn into Mexico's "free market", millions of Mexicans living on small farms were no longer able to feed their families. Their choice amounted to migration or starvation.
What would you have done?

These people are so ignorant..... Do you think they even understand that?

I'm afraid many in the US have no empathy for the working poor in Mexico or in this country. I suppose we are reduced to hoping the US dollar doesn't lose its status as the world's reserve currency since that would make it impossible to borrow enough money to maim, kill, and displace millions of innocent Muslims on the opposite side of the planet from Texas.

'Hope those Catholics can take a joke

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

Yes, exactly, dumbfuck. So how can you claim illegal aliens don't drive down the wages of American citizens?

Those are your silly words, you ignorant millennial. Don't forget your essential oils . Either you are for a free enterprise system or you manipulate it. Obviously you are for statist intervention.

 

[bripat9643]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

Yes, exactly, dumbfuck. So how can you claim illegal aliens don't drive down the wages of American citizens?

Those are your silly words, you ignorant millennial. Don't forget your essential oils . Either you are for a free enterprise system or you manipulate it. Obviously you are for statist intervention.

Controlling your border is "manipulating free enterprise?" How about operation Overlord? Was that also an attempt to manipulate free enterprise?

That has to be the dumbest claim posted in the last month.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember that correll and bripat are here for grins and chuckles.

If the immigrants were forced to leave, the agricombines and food processing plants would have to increase their wages dramatically.

Yes, exactly, dumbfuck. So how can you claim illegal aliens don't drive down the wages of American citizens?

Those are your silly words, you ignorant millennial. Don't forget your essential oils . Either you are for a free enterprise system or you manipulate it. Obviously you are for statist intervention.

Controlling your border is "manipulating free enterprise?" How about operation Overlord? Was that also an attempt to manipulate free enterprise?

That has to be the dumbest claim posted in the last month.

So you admit you are a statist. I always thought you were fake.