Democrats...please explain how you think you can “have it all”?

[forkup]

Glad you ask, nice to see you seeking enlightenment.
No other first world civilized nation has more bottom feeding filth than we do. Ironically, despite FREE healthcare coverage given to our filth...our lowest grade is way too busy doing nothing...they don’t bother with preventative healthcare...or healthcare at all...so they die often. Our filth also purge themselves by becoming obese, driving drunk, doing drugs and through other criminality.
No other first world nation has more thirdworld filth among the natives. The thirdworlder, low iQ mentality kills many.

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people:

A Shocking Decline in American Life Expectancy

But hey, if somebody wants to kill themselves with drugs, it's none of our business. Isn't that what the liberals and Libertarians keep telling us?

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people

Another great example how for profit healthcare is bad. The opioid addiction crisis is a direct result of the easiness that doctors in the US prescribe opioid based pain meds. Here the government issues guidelines and opioids are way less common. If you want to make the point that the government is by definition bad healthcare is a bad way to go about it.

 

[Rigby5]

You want free health care...right?
You want free college...right?
You want ‘welfare’ increased...right?
You want higher minimum wage...right?
You want more spent on ‘science’...right?
AND you want to extend all of what you want to 12-50 million illegal aliens...right?

Soooo, how do you think this all happens and why do you think our most productive, positive contributors should happily embrace the idea of funding it all?

Hey Broke, are you sure you aren't forgetting a few?

What about wanting unlimited illegal Aliens with no job skills and many babies?
What about draconian environmental policies with little benefit and devastating cost to business and economy?
What about open-ended inner city crime inducements to the poor while lowering penalties and shortening sentences putting them all back on the street to do it again?
What about mechanistic, centralized one-size-fits-all drone-like education on our children then wondering why our nation flounders? And
What about unlimited hands-out to other countries with little or no return?

Public health care is much, much less expensive and better quality than the private health care we get now because of the insurance companies skimming.

Free public education greatly increases productivity and reduces crime, so it the best possible investment.

Welfare is essentially impossible for men, and very limited for women even. It is really on children who benefit, and they once again are an important investment for the future.

A higher minimum wage does not cost anything because it make workers better consumers, so just circulated currency faster, making everyone more wealthy.

Science has a huge payback. No one should even be questioning that, and does not deserve a response.

Illegal aliens don't get any of that, and all that anyone wants to extend is tuition.

And it is easy to fund it since public health care costs so much less then private, and we can easily reduce military spending.

Illegal immigrants do not have babies. Usually it is males and they come alone. Our reproductive rate is less then 2, so our population would be dropping if not for immigration.

None of the environmental regulations have any impact on the economy.
Slowing our consumption of timber and fossil fuels just means not stealing from future generations. Cleaning up water, etc., means lower health costs.

Crime is caused entirely by things like lack of opportunity and injustice. There is no such thing as an incentive to crime, because all humans are born innately honest. Crime has to be taught into them by injustice and frustrations.

We don't give away anything to anyone with foreign aid except to Israel, who gets almost half of all our foreign aid.
When we give foreign aid, it actually is usually weapons for dictators we support, or we build things like roads or dams if US companies like Coca Cola want it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Glad you ask, nice to see you seeking enlightenment.
No other first world civilized nation has more bottom feeding filth than we do. Ironically, despite FREE healthcare coverage given to our filth...our lowest grade is way too busy doing nothing...they don’t bother with preventative healthcare...or healthcare at all...so they die often. Our filth also purge themselves by becoming obese, driving drunk, doing drugs and through other criminality.
No other first world nation has more thirdworld filth among the natives. The thirdworlder, low iQ mentality kills many.

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people:

A Shocking Decline in American Life Expectancy

But hey, if somebody wants to kill themselves with drugs, it's none of our business. Isn't that what the liberals and Libertarians keep telling us?

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people

Another great example how for profit healthcare is bad. The opioid addiction crisis is a direct result of the easiness that doctors in the US prescribe opioid based pain meds. Here the government issues guidelines and opioids are way less common. If you want to make the point that the government is by definition bad healthcare is a bad way to go about it.

It's the insurance companies who keep doctors in line for over prescribing. Ever hear of malpractice insurance?

Only some of the addicts come from prescription medication because in most cases, if you do get addicted, the facility that prescribed the drugs will also offer help getting off of them. Nobody is prescribing fentanyl and it's the fastest growing killer when it comes to recreational narcotics in our country.

 

[forkup]

Glad you ask, nice to see you seeking enlightenment.
No other first world civilized nation has more bottom feeding filth than we do. Ironically, despite FREE healthcare coverage given to our filth...our lowest grade is way too busy doing nothing...they don’t bother with preventative healthcare...or healthcare at all...so they die often. Our filth also purge themselves by becoming obese, driving drunk, doing drugs and through other criminality.
No other first world nation has more thirdworld filth among the natives. The thirdworlder, low iQ mentality kills many.

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people:

A Shocking Decline in American Life Expectancy

But hey, if somebody wants to kill themselves with drugs, it's none of our business. Isn't that what the liberals and Libertarians keep telling us?

Indeed. Now our average lifespan is decreasing mostly due to drug overdoses by younger people

Another great example how for profit healthcare is bad. The opioid addiction crisis is a direct result of the easiness that doctors in the US prescribe opioid based pain meds. Here the government issues guidelines and opioids are way less common. If you want to make the point that the government is by definition bad healthcare is a bad way to go about it.

It's the insurance companies who keep doctors in line for over prescribing. Ever hear of malpractice insurance?

Only some of the addicts come from prescription medication because in most cases, if you do get addicted, the facility that prescribed the drugs will also offer help getting off of them. Nobody is prescribing fentanyl and it's the fastest growing killer when it comes to recreational narcotics in our country.

Tell that to my mother in law, who went in for surgery and came out addicted to morphine. The thing is if you prescribe opioids with ease, people will start looking for it for recreational use. How many people you know have at some point or other come in contact with prescribed opioids? In my country I can say 1, my grandmother who got morphine the last 6 months of her life because of cancer. I've played sports my entire live sustaining multiple injuries and having multiple surgeries. Never got anything heavier then Tylenol.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As I pointed out, Europe with a much larger interference of the government in healthcare, score better in terms of both efficiency, results and cost. So that is a practical example of why government isn't detrimental to healthcare.

We have both, government healthcare and private healthcare. Government healthcare is a failure and failing every day. Medicaid is the largest expenditure for mosts states and driving them in the red. Even today, some doctors are refusing new government patients because they can't take the loss any longer.

So I just can't see taking a failure of a program and expanding it. We have the best healthcare in the world, our only problem is getting everybody on it. But when people from around the world have serious medical conditions they need treatment for, they come here if they can afford it.

Your cart theory is stupid, sorry to tell you but it is. Given people social benefits has a measurable positive effect on society.

Is that so? Then why don't we all quit our jobs and go on social programs?

How is my cart theory stupid? How is it inaccurate? The more people you have contributing to society the more financial successful society you have.

You and I both have widget factories. In my factory, my people work all eight hours they get paid. In your factory, your workers get paid to take several breaks and they barely get in five hours of work. Who's company do you think will be more successful, yours or mine?

omission for a reason. It's kind of the idea that if you give corporations tax breaks they are going to give that break to it's workers. Yes some of it will be given, but it'll be a pittance compared to the total break given. At least raising the minimum wage gives a direct and measurable benefit to those workers who are the weakest. While taking down corporate tax rates is a gift in the HOPE that companies will be generous to it's workers, exactly what you claim companies don't do in your point.

We've seen what increases in minimum wage does. It causes employers to layoff workers, invest in automation, or increase their prices on products or services. Even now Wendy's and McDonald's are automating their facilities to eliminate the human workforce. Forced minimum wage increases would only put that advancements on steroids.

 

[forkup]

As I pointed out, Europe with a much larger interference of the government in healthcare, score better in terms of both efficiency, results and cost. So that is a practical example of why government isn't detrimental to healthcare.

We have both, government healthcare and private healthcare. Government healthcare is a failure and failing every day. Medicaid is the largest expenditure for mosts states and driving them in the red. Even today, some doctors are refusing new government patients because they can't take the loss any longer.

So I just can't see taking a failure of a program and expanding it. We have the best healthcare in the world, our only problem is getting everybody on it. But when people from around the world have serious medical conditions they need treatment for, they come here if they can afford it.

Your cart theory is stupid, sorry to tell you but it is. Given people social benefits has a measurable positive effect on society.

Is that so? Then why don't we all quit our jobs and go on social programs?

How is my cart theory stupid? How is it inaccurate? The more people you have contributing to society the more financial successful society you have.

You and I both have widget factories. In my factory, my people work all eight hours they get paid. In your factory, your workers get paid to take several breaks and they barely get in five hours of work. Who's company do you think will be more successful, yours or mine?

omission for a reason. It's kind of the idea that if you give corporations tax breaks they are going to give that break to it's workers. Yes some of it will be given, but it'll be a pittance compared to the total break given. At least raising the minimum wage gives a direct and measurable benefit to those workers who are the weakest. While taking down corporate tax rates is a gift in the HOPE that companies will be generous to it's workers, exactly what you claim companies don't do in your point.

We've seen what increases in minimum wage does. It causes employers to layoff workers, invest in automation, or increase their prices on products or services. Even now Wendy's and McDonald's are automating their facilities to eliminate the human workforce. Forced minimum wage increases would only put that advancements on steroids.

We have both, government healthcare and private healthcare.

I only have government healthcare and as I pointed out, it's more efficient. As to people coming to the US for serious conditions. I've heard of Americans going to Switzerland for a certain specialist. I can't think of a single person I know of or heard about who went to the US specifically for medical treatment. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare. I do believe that the US at it's best is world class, but be honest, can you afford an experimental treatment? What good is it, having the best doctors, if only 1 in a thousand people can afford them?

Then why don't we all quit our jobs and go on social programs?

The same reason I don't, being on social programs gives you the bare necessities but nothing beyond that. You won't get the newest I phone, a house, a trip abroad on social programs.

We've seen what increases in minimum wage does.

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

We have the same problem here with online shopping. However the difference in increasing wages to automation is that the company looks at what is more cost effective. For instance, double the minimum wage, and that's around $7.00 per hour, $280.00 per week, or about $1,400 per month for each and every employee. If you have ten employees, that's $14,000 extra per month just in wages. But wait!

When an employer increases wages, the wage increase is only part of the cost. It also increases the cost of Workman's Compensation insurance. It increases the cost of Unemployment Insurance. Since the employer must double the employee contributions to Social Security and Medicare, that too is a cost.

So now that $14,000 a month cost turned into $20,000 a month cost. A company with only ten employees is small business--very small business. So a 20K increase in cost can make the difference between a company closing up and a company just passing on the costs or turning to automation.

The same reason I don't, being on social programs gives you the bare necessities but nothing beyond that. You won't get the newest I phone, a house, a trip abroad on social programs.

Bingo. Now you have it. However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well. In fact I have HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. In some cases, our poor are better off than the working.

They don't have to worry about housing, they don't have to worry about how many children they have, they don't have to worry about utility bills, and hell, we even give them a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month. They don't have to worry about healthcare for themselves of their family. They don't pay taxes so they don't have to worry about tax increases. And you should see how fat these people are in line at the grocery store who use food stamps.

I only have government healthcare and as I pointed out, it's more efficient. As to people coming to the US for serious conditions. I've heard of Americans going to Switzerland for a certain specialist. I can't think of a single person I know of or heard about who went to the US specifically for medical treatment. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare. I do believe that the US at it's best is world class, but be honest, can you afford an experimental treatment? What good is it, having the best doctors, if only 1 in a thousand people can afford them?

I would say it's a lot less than that, but I'm a patient at the world renown Cleveland Clinic; I've been a patient there since a child. And let me assure you, when you walk into their main campus downtown, you are the one who feels like a foreigner.

Every healthcare system has it's problems. Whether government or private insurance, it's costly no matter where you go. People over here constantly compare our system to the Canadian system, and I can tell you just talking with Canadians up close and personal, the elderly citizens told me to keep what we got, or we'll be sorry when we age.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

It is true that we have US citizens going abroad for treatment, but that's only because the treatment or drugs were not approved of over here, and if you're dying of something, you'll try anything including experimental.

 

[forkup]

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

We have the same problem here with online shopping. However the difference in increasing wages to automation is that the company looks at what is more cost effective. For instance, double the minimum wage, and that's around $7.00 per hour, $280.00 per week, or about $1,400 per month for each and every employee. If you have ten employees, that's $14,000 extra per month just in wages. But wait!

When an employer increases wages, the wage increase is only part of the cost. It also increases the cost of Workman's Compensation insurance. It increases the cost of Unemployment Insurance. Since the employer must double the employee contributions to Social Security and Medicare, that too is a cost.

So now that $14,000 a month cost turned into $20,000 a month cost. A company with only ten employees is small business--very small business. So a 20K increase in cost can make the difference between a company closing up and a company just passing on the costs or turning to automation.

The same reason I don't, being on social programs gives you the bare necessities but nothing beyond that. You won't get the newest I phone, a house, a trip abroad on social programs.

Bingo. Now you have it. However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well. In fact I have HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. In some cases, our poor are better off than the working.

They don't have to worry about housing, they don't have to worry about how many children they have, they don't have to worry about utility bills, and hell, we even give them a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month. They don't have to worry about healthcare for themselves of their family. They don't pay taxes so they don't have to worry about tax increases. And you should see how fat these people are in line at the grocery store who use food stamps.

I only have government healthcare and as I pointed out, it's more efficient. As to people coming to the US for serious conditions. I've heard of Americans going to Switzerland for a certain specialist. I can't think of a single person I know of or heard about who went to the US specifically for medical treatment. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare. I do believe that the US at it's best is world class, but be honest, can you afford an experimental treatment? What good is it, having the best doctors, if only 1 in a thousand people can afford them?

I would say it's a lot less than that, but I'm a patient at the world renown Cleveland Clinic; I've been a patient there since a child. And let me assure you, when you walk into their main campus downtown, you are the one who feels like a foreigner.

Every healthcare system has it's problems. Whether government or private insurance, it's costly no matter where you go. People over here constantly compare our system to the Canadian system, and I can tell you just talking with Canadians up close and personal, the elderly citizens told me to keep what we got, or we'll be sorry when we age.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

It is true that we have US citizens going abroad for treatment, but that's only because the treatment or drugs were not approved of over here, and if you're dying of something, you'll try anything including experimental.

I'm not going to reply to your first point, since i'd just be repeating myself. Not trying to be flip but that's how it is.

However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well.

Lol you think it's different here. In fact poor people have more rights here. We don't just give primary care but TOTAL care, near free language courses if you're a foreigner. Paid maternity leave, 3 months parental leave, Cheap college, etc. The thing is you are trying to claim having all that makes people less eager to contribute. I'm claiming that having all that doesn't,because to be able to not just live but live well, I need to work. If I don't I won't be driving a Mercedes, I won't be able to own my own house, I won't be able to take an annual trip to the US, I won't be able to give my daughter some money when I pass. Not having to worry about what I consider bare necessities in no way makes me lazy or unwilling to contribute.

Every healthcare system has it's problems. Whether government or private insurance, it's costly no matter where you go.

Yes, but your mixed government run/ private healthcare system is WAY more expensive then my government run system. This for less inclusivity, longer waits and a lower life expectancy. So when you claim it's government interference that causes those problems, you have the problem of trying to explain the results of mine and most if not all countries who have socialized healthcare. To be honest, European style healthcare would be impossible to achieve in the US because it takes an acceptance of a way higher interference in free market mechanisms, something that no American would accept. But it does work.

It is true that we have US citizens going abroad for treatment

Again you were making the claim that people come to the US to receive care they couldn't get in their own country. I just pointed out it works vice versa too. So as prove of superiority it will be pretty difficult.

 

[Rigby5]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

 

[Rigby5]

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

We have the same problem here with online shopping. However the difference in increasing wages to automation is that the company looks at what is more cost effective. For instance, double the minimum wage, and that's around $7.00 per hour, $280.00 per week, or about $1,400 per month for each and every employee. If you have ten employees, that's $14,000 extra per month just in wages. But wait!

When an employer increases wages, the wage increase is only part of the cost. It also increases the cost of Workman's Compensation insurance. It increases the cost of Unemployment Insurance. Since the employer must double the employee contributions to Social Security and Medicare, that too is a cost.

So now that $14,000 a month cost turned into $20,000 a month cost. A company with only ten employees is small business--very small business. So a 20K increase in cost can make the difference between a company closing up and a company just passing on the costs or turning to automation.

The same reason I don't, being on social programs gives you the bare necessities but nothing beyond that. You won't get the newest I phone, a house, a trip abroad on social programs.

Bingo. Now you have it. However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well. In fact I have HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. In some cases, our poor are better off than the working.

They don't have to worry about housing, they don't have to worry about how many children they have, they don't have to worry about utility bills, and hell, we even give them a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month. They don't have to worry about healthcare for themselves of their family. They don't pay taxes so they don't have to worry about tax increases. And you should see how fat these people are in line at the grocery store who use food stamps.

I only have government healthcare and as I pointed out, it's more efficient. As to people coming to the US for serious conditions. I've heard of Americans going to Switzerland for a certain specialist. I can't think of a single person I know of or heard about who went to the US specifically for medical treatment. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare. I do believe that the US at it's best is world class, but be honest, can you afford an experimental treatment? What good is it, having the best doctors, if only 1 in a thousand people can afford them?

I would say it's a lot less than that, but I'm a patient at the world renown Cleveland Clinic; I've been a patient there since a child. And let me assure you, when you walk into their main campus downtown, you are the one who feels like a foreigner.

Every healthcare system has it's problems. Whether government or private insurance, it's costly no matter where you go. People over here constantly compare our system to the Canadian system, and I can tell you just talking with Canadians up close and personal, the elderly citizens told me to keep what we got, or we'll be sorry when we age.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

It is true that we have US citizens going abroad for treatment, but that's only because the treatment or drugs were not approved of over here, and if you're dying of something, you'll try anything including experimental.

That just is not at all true.
First of all, employers never pay employee even a third of what they make off of them.
Most employers are making $50 - $120 per hour off each employee, so can easily move the minimum wage from $7.50 to $15/hour.
Second is that no Canadian would ever trade for our terrible health care.
And not only is the Canadian health care rated far better than ours, it costs them less than half as much.

 

[Rigby5]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

With health insurance you essentially are prepaying. That means you lose all control over costs or quality. So you get the worst health care, at the highest possible prices. Every look into prepaid legal services? They essentially are con.
Anything you prepay is never any good and is always way more expensive. Being third party payer, actually the insurance companies encourage providers to raise prices because that only forces customers to need insurance even more.
So in all cases, in all other countries, public health care costs individuals less because it is only a slight increase in their taxes, which are offset by the huge savings of not having to pay the monthly health insurance bill. And if you think you don't pay because the employer sends in the check, you are totally wrong on that. It is still coming out of your pay.

With free tuition, it has been shown repeatedly, such as in CA in the past, that it increases employee productivity by over a factor of 4. And that means not only more employer income, but more buying power to boost the economy. And does not even include the other benefits, like less emergency medical costs for indigents, as well as much lower crime rates.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

With health insurance you essentially are prepaying. That means you lose all control over costs or quality. So you get the worst health care, at the highest possible prices. Every look into prepaid legal services? They essentially are con.
Anything you prepay is never any good and is always way more expensive. Being third party payer, actually the insurance companies encourage providers to raise prices because that only forces customers to need insurance even more.
So in all cases, in all other countries, public health care costs individuals less because it is only a slight increase in their taxes, which are offset by the huge savings of not having to pay the monthly health insurance bill. And if you think you don't pay because the employer sends in the check, you are totally wrong on that. It is still coming out of your pay.

With free tuition, it has been shown repeatedly, such as in CA in the past, that it increases employee productivity by over a factor of 4. And that means not only more employer income, but more buying power to boost the economy. And does not even include the other benefits, like less emergency medical costs for indigents, as well as much lower crime rates.

“Healthcare in America is expensive...no doubt. Our medical professionals are paid well, our facilities, equipment and pharmaceuticals are top notch...that’s why people with FREE healthcare from around the world end up here for the best care. That all said...using cost to GDP ratio is what uninformed retards do to beg for shit. Anyone sane knows the real problems....nearly half of our citizens DO NOT contribute by paying taxes...Britain for example, offers “free healthcare” by imposing a 20% tax on EVERYONE earning a wage up to $31,785 and 40% on EVERYONE earning more. Imagine your cries if we taxed the working poor by 20% to GIVE them “FREE” healthcare.
Further....NO other nation spends $17 BILLION on healthcare every year for illegal Mexicans....NO NATION!”

Again, “FREE” college is never free.
Using your comparative methods with other nations...let’s have a quick look. The countries below with the red arrows offer free college, with theexception of the US. Again, all achieved through high taxation with more contributing.
Further, NO other nation spends $46 BILLION each and every year educating illegal Mexicans...NO NATION!”

 

[Rigby5]

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

...

Bingo. Now you have it. However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well. In fact I have HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. In some cases, our poor are better off than the working.

They don't have to worry about housing, they don't have to worry about how many children they have, they don't have to worry about utility bills, and hell, we even give them a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month. They don't have to worry about healthcare for themselves of their family. They don't pay taxes so they don't have to worry about tax increases. And you should see how fat these people are in line at the grocery store who use food stamps.

....

That is not at all true.
Poor people can NOT get HUD.
HUD does not give out free homes, but only helps subsidize mortgages a small amount.
Poor people do have to pay for their children, utility bills, etc.
The only thing you got right is that there is a free cell phone plan.
But the low end plan they get only costs the gov. about $10/month.
They do not get free health care.
They have to wait in line for hours at the ER, and the ER will not do most of the long term diagnosis they may need.
And they still get a bill.
They can avoid collection, but it still is there is they ever get a tax refund of win the lottery.
And they do pay taxes.
No matter how little you make, you still pay FICA, property tax, etc.
And food stamps are not free.
SNAP usually does does not even discount as much as 50 cents on the dollar.
They have to buy food stamps, and usually only are getting a 30% discount or so.
And even then they pretty much have to have dependent children in order to even qualify for that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

With health insurance you essentially are prepaying. That means you lose all control over costs or quality. So you get the worst health care, at the highest possible prices. Every look into prepaid legal services? They essentially are con.
Anything you prepay is never any good and is always way more expensive. Being third party payer, actually the insurance companies encourage providers to raise prices because that only forces customers to need insurance even more.
So in all cases, in all other countries, public health care costs individuals less because it is only a slight increase in their taxes, which are offset by the huge savings of not having to pay the monthly health insurance bill. And if you think you don't pay because the employer sends in the check, you are totally wrong on that. It is still coming out of your pay.

With free tuition, it has been shown repeatedly, such as in CA in the past, that it increases employee productivity by over a factor of 4. And that means not only more employer income, but more buying power to boost the economy. And does not even include the other benefits, like less emergency medical costs for indigents, as well as much lower crime rates.

I remember years ago when I went to electronics school for work. The first day the teacher drew a 12 volt battery on the chalkboard and two resisters. He explained that each resister absorbed 6 volts of power. He asked if there were any questions, and most of the class laughed. That was until one black guy raised his hand.

He had no idea that 6+6=12, and he kept asking the teacher the stupidest questions. Many of us looked at each other rolling our eyes. I leaned over to my new classmate next to me and whispered "I don't think this guy is going to make it!" He whispered back "I know he isn't going to make it. This is his third time taking this class."

My classmate took the class the previous semester but left due to illness. On break, I asked him about the guy who raised his hand. He explained to me he was on some sort of government program, and no matter how many times he fails, they will continue to pay for his education.

People who graduate college earn more than those who didn't attend. Therefore advanced education is an investment. An investment is when you spend YOUR OWN money with a return plus a profit.

I see no reason why taxpayers should fund investments for other people. Don't ask me to pay for your education to be a doctor or a lawyer, and when I need your services, charge me $400.00 to check my heart and take my blood pressure.

 

[forkup]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

With health insurance you essentially are prepaying. That means you lose all control over costs or quality. So you get the worst health care, at the highest possible prices. Every look into prepaid legal services? They essentially are con.
Anything you prepay is never any good and is always way more expensive. Being third party payer, actually the insurance companies encourage providers to raise prices because that only forces customers to need insurance even more.
So in all cases, in all other countries, public health care costs individuals less because it is only a slight increase in their taxes, which are offset by the huge savings of not having to pay the monthly health insurance bill. And if you think you don't pay because the employer sends in the check, you are totally wrong on that. It is still coming out of your pay.

With free tuition, it has been shown repeatedly, such as in CA in the past, that it increases employee productivity by over a factor of 4. And that means not only more employer income, but more buying power to boost the economy. And does not even include the other benefits, like less emergency medical costs for indigents, as well as much lower crime rates.

I remember years ago when I went to electronics school for work. The first day the teacher drew a 12 volt battery on the chalkboard and two resisters. He explained that each resister absorbed 6 volts of power. He asked if there were any questions, and most of the class laughed. That was until one black guy raised his hand.

He had no idea that 6+6=12, and he kept asking the teacher the stupidest questions. Many of us looked at each other rolling our eyes. I leaned over to my new classmate next to me and whispered "I don't think this guy is going to make it!" He whispered back "I know he isn't going to make it. This is his third time taking this class."

My classmate took the class the previous semester but left due to illness. On break, I asked him about the guy who raised his hand. He explained to me he was on some sort of government program, and no matter how many times he fails, they will continue to pay for his education.

People who graduate college earn more than those who didn't attend. Therefore advanced education is an investment. An investment is when you spend YOUR OWN money with a return plus a profit.

I see no reason why taxpayers should fund investments for other people. Don't ask me to pay for your education to be a doctor or a lawyer, and when I need your services, charge me $400.00 to check my heart and take my blood pressure.

charge me $400.00 to check my heart and take my blood pressure.

This would mean that a lot of people would not be able to see a doctor. That's kind of the point isn't it? By saying a person is only allowed the services he or she is able to afford you create a class of people that will never, no matter how hard they work will get ahead in life. It's basically a society akin to the hunger games. One were those that have will keep on having and those who haven't are shit out of luck.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You just admitted that companies already try to automate, and companies will always try to charge however much they can get away with. So what's the difference? Forcing companies to increase their wages does increase spending power from their workers in turn increasing consumption.
In Belgium retail stores are slowly going out of business, they are losing ground to web stores. It has nothing to do with cashiers being to expensive, it's an evolution of shopping habits.

...

Bingo. Now you have it. However in this country, our so-called poor live quite well. In fact I have HUD people living next door to me in the suburbs. In some cases, our poor are better off than the working.

They don't have to worry about housing, they don't have to worry about how many children they have, they don't have to worry about utility bills, and hell, we even give them a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month. They don't have to worry about healthcare for themselves of their family. They don't pay taxes so they don't have to worry about tax increases. And you should see how fat these people are in line at the grocery store who use food stamps.

....

That is not at all true.
Poor people can NOT get HUD.
HUD does not give out free homes, but only helps subsidize mortgages a small amount.
Poor people do have to pay for their children, utility bills, etc.
The only thing you got right is that there is a free cell phone plan.
But the low end plan they get only costs the gov. about $10/month.
They do not get free health care.
They have to wait in line for hours at the ER, and the ER will not do most of the long term diagnosis they may need.
And they still get a bill.
They can avoid collection, but it still is there is they ever get a tax refund of win the lottery.
And they do pay taxes.
No matter how little you make, you still pay FICA, property tax, etc.
And food stamps are not free.
SNAP usually does does not even discount as much as 50 cents on the dollar.
They have to buy food stamps, and usually only are getting a 30% discount or so.
And even then they pretty much have to have dependent children in order to even qualify for that.

Then I say you are pretty out of touch with our safety net systems.

Please explain to me how I have to work every day to live in the suburbs, and the people next door in the HUD house are home all day long. How is it they have three kids and leave the window open in the winter when they get too warm because they don't feel like turning down the thermostat when they are paying for their own utilities. I talked to the landlord in the past. I know what HUD is paying for his renters, and it's most of the rent. That's why he went to HUD.

Food stamps are free. You don't pay anything to get them. And judging by your response, you never heard of Medicaid. Plus if you make poverty wages, you get all your tax money back.

Census: Americans in ‘Poverty’ Typically Have Cell Phones, Computers, TVs, VCRS, AC, Washers, Dryers and Microwaves

Study: NY Welfare Recipients Eligible For More In Benefits Than Teachers Earn - Breitbart

Cash value of welfare spending to households in poverty greater than median household income

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You want free health care...right?
You want free college...right?
You want ‘welfare’ increased...right?
You want higher minimum wage...right?
You want more spent on ‘science’...right?
AND you want to extend all of what you want to 12-50 million illegal aliens...right?

Soooo, how do you think this all happens and why do you think our most productive, positive contributors should happily embrace the idea of funding it all?

Because they want to be like Venezuela. Democrat paradise. Never mind most of them will be digging through trash cans to eat, at least someone else didn't get to keep their tax deductions. They got more so it was unfair. Right up until they found out fair equals nobody has anything and never will.

Demorat policy is poverty for everyone.

Norway, remember your mentor Trump wants us to be more like Norwegians.... (not Haitians with aides, or Africans living in huts)

And Norway has the absolute best social net in the world for its citizens....

Norway has the best welfare system in the Nordics

Norway. We have the he best welfare in the world! Now that’s a selling point.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I’m really hoping some Libs get in on this...I think they often times get lost in their intended nobility and forget and or refuse to consider the economics and impact some things have on American society.

All these things, like public health care, free tuition, etc., greatly increased productivity and greatly reduces over all cost.
So every one benefits, and no one actually has to pay more for it.
Everyone ends up with a net gain.

Huh?

With health insurance you essentially are prepaying. That means you lose all control over costs or quality. So you get the worst health care, at the highest possible prices. Every look into prepaid legal services? They essentially are con.
Anything you prepay is never any good and is always way more expensive. Being third party payer, actually the insurance companies encourage providers to raise prices because that only forces customers to need insurance even more.
So in all cases, in all other countries, public health care costs individuals less because it is only a slight increase in their taxes, which are offset by the huge savings of not having to pay the monthly health insurance bill. And if you think you don't pay because the employer sends in the check, you are totally wrong on that. It is still coming out of your pay.

With free tuition, it has been shown repeatedly, such as in CA in the past, that it increases employee productivity by over a factor of 4. And that means not only more employer income, but more buying power to boost the economy. And does not even include the other benefits, like less emergency medical costs for indigents, as well as much lower crime rates.

I remember years ago when I went to electronics school for work. The first day the teacher drew a 12 volt battery on the chalkboard and two resisters. He explained that each resister absorbed 6 volts of power. He asked if there were any questions, and most of the class laughed. That was until one black guy raised his hand.

He had no idea that 6+6=12, and he kept asking the teacher the stupidest questions. Many of us looked at each other rolling our eyes. I leaned over to my new classmate next to me and whispered "I don't think this guy is going to make it!" He whispered back "I know he isn't going to make it. This is his third time taking this class."

My classmate took the class the previous semester but left due to illness. On break, I asked him about the guy who raised his hand. He explained to me he was on some sort of government program, and no matter how many times he fails, they will continue to pay for his education.

People who graduate college earn more than those who didn't attend. Therefore advanced education is an investment. An investment is when you spend YOUR OWN money with a return plus a profit.

I see no reason why taxpayers should fund investments for other people. Don't ask me to pay for your education to be a doctor or a lawyer, and when I need your services, charge me $400.00 to check my heart and take my blood pressure.

charge me $400.00 to check my heart and take my blood pressure.

This would mean that a lot of people would not be able to see a doctor. That's kind of the point isn't it. By saying a person is only allowed the services he or she is able to afford you create a class of people that will never, no matter how hard they work will get ahead in life. It's basically a society akin to the hunger games. One were those that have will keep on having and those who haven't are shit out of luck.

You plead quite the case “for others”...I’m sure you’re not a “victim” of poverty at all. I’m sure “someone” made some bad decisions FOR YOU along the way....we all know you can’t be responsible for your position in life.
You see...most of us with dignity, morality and decency understand that we humans make decisions in our lives that send us down a certain path...this is why we exhaust all effort properly parenting our children and essentially FORCING them down said path. We with dignity believe that only we decided to have our children and only we should be responsible for them financially and otherwise.
People without values and dignity honestly believe they have the right to have children they know they can’t afford and they believe these children should be the responsibility of society.
STOP and read that a second time....and use logic. Do you hear how fucking pathetic that shit sounds?
PAY YOUR OWN FUCKING WAY.....simple shit!

 

[rightwinger]

You want free health care...right?
You want free college...right?
You want ‘welfare’ increased...right?
You want higher minimum wage...right?
You want more spent on ‘science’...right?
AND you want to extend all of what you want to 12-50 million illegal aliens...right?

Soooo, how do you think this all happens and why do you think our most productive, positive contributors should happily embrace the idea of funding it all?

We can do it if we stop giving trillion dollar tax cuts to billionaires

Our rich are doing quite well
There is no reason to give them breaks