Dems, don't let Repubs bamboozle you, America IS a democracy.

BS Filter said:
Democrats didn't allow Republicans to win. Presidents are elected by the Electoral College, not the popular vote. You're an idiot.
Click to expand...
or by the GOP Supreme Court in 2000... tilden gave it away in return for the end of the occupation of the South..... of course as an ignoramus dupe of the GOP you know basically nothing....
 
francoHFW said:
or by the GOP Supreme Court in 2000... tilden gave it away in return for the end of the occupation of the South..... of course as an ignoramus dupe of the GOP you know basically nothing....
Click to expand...
Why don't you explain how the Supreme Court gave Bush the election in 2000. This should be good. Go ahead.
 
BS Filter said:
Democrats didn't allow Republicans to win. Presidents are elected by the Electoral College, not the popular vote. You're an idiot.
Click to expand...
The electoral college was created as a compromise between those who wanted the president to be elected by Congress and those who wanted the president to be elected by the people. Given that fact, they certainly didn't want the election to be won by a minority vote (see the comment on federalist #22, below).

In the book "The American Constitution: Its Origins and Development" by Herman Belz, a historian and expert on the US Constitution. In Chapter 8 of this book, titled "The Electoral College and the Rise of Parties," Belz writes:

"The framers of the Constitution rejected both the idea of electing the president by Congress and the idea of electing him by popular vote. Instead, they devised the Electoral College as a compromise, whereby the people would indirectly elect the president through electors chosen by the states."

Belz goes on to explain the specific concerns that each group had and how the Electoral College addressed those concerns. Other scholarly works, such as "The Electoral College: An Overview and Analysis of Reform Proposals" by Thomas H. Neale, also support the view that the Electoral College was a compromise between those who wanted the president to be elected by Congress and those who wanted the president to be elected by the people.

Federalist Paper No. 22, authored by Alexander Hamilton, deals with the power of the federal government to levy taxes and the need for the government to have adequate revenue to function effectively. While this paper does not directly address the question of whether the framers intended for a candidate who lost the popular vote to win the presidency, it is possible to draw some connections between Hamilton's arguments in Federalist No. 22 and the Electoral College.

In Federalist No. 22, Hamilton argues that the federal government must have the power to levy taxes in order to carry out its responsibilities effectively. He writes that "the power to raise money is plausibly an indispensable one in the operations of the federal government," and that without this power, the government would be unable to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, or protect individual rights.

One could argue that the Electoral College serves a similar function in the presidential election. By allowing the states to allocate their electors in a manner that reflects their unique interests and concerns, the Electoral College helps to ensure that the president is elected by a broad and diverse coalition of voters from across the country. This, in turn, helps to ensure that the president is responsive to the needs and concerns of all Americans, rather than just those in a few highly populated areas.

Of course, this argument assumes that the Electoral College is serving its intended purpose effectively, and there is certainly room for debate on that question. However, it is possible to draw some connections between Hamilton's argument in Federalist No. 22 and the Electoral College, and to suggest that the framers saw the Electoral College as a necessary means of ensuring that the president was elected by a broad and diverse coalition of voters from across the country.
 
BS Filter said:
Why don't you explain how the Supreme Court gave Bush the election in 2000. This should be good. Go ahead.
Click to expand...
the five Republicans outvoted the four good supremes and Gore conceded rather than go on and on....duhhh.... what a catastrophe W was. Allowed 911 through sheer incompetence, gave us the two stupidest wars ever and the world depression with the usual GOP corrupt deregulation, bubble and bust depression....
 
francoHFW said:
the five Republicans outvoted the four good supremes and Gore conceded rather than go on and on....duhhh.... what a catastrophe W was. Allowed 911 through sheer incompetence, gave us the two stupidest wars ever and the world depression with the usual GOP corrupt deregulation, bubble and bust depression....
Click to expand...
What was the vote about?
 
Rumpole said:
The electoral college was created as a compromise between those who wanted the president to be elected by Congress and those who wanted the president to be elected by the people. Given that fact, they certainly didn't want the election to be won by a minority vote (see the comment on federalist #22, below).

In the book "The American Constitution: Its Origins and Development" by Herman Belz, a historian and expert on the US Constitution. In Chapter 8 of this book, titled "The Electoral College and the Rise of Parties," Belz writes:

"The framers of the Constitution rejected both the idea of electing the president by Congress and the idea of electing him by popular vote. Instead, they devised the Electoral College as a compromise, whereby the people would indirectly elect the president through electors chosen by the states."

Belz goes on to explain the specific concerns that each group had and how the Electoral College addressed those concerns. Other scholarly works, such as "The Electoral College: An Overview and Analysis of Reform Proposals" by Thomas H. Neale, also support the view that the Electoral College was a compromise between those who wanted the president to be elected by Congress and those who wanted the president to be elected by the people.

Federalist Paper No. 22, authored by Alexander Hamilton, deals with the power of the federal government to levy taxes and the need for the government to have adequate revenue to function effectively. While this paper does not directly address the question of whether the framers intended for a candidate who lost the popular vote to win the presidency, it is possible to draw some connections between Hamilton's arguments in Federalist No. 22 and the Electoral College.

In Federalist No. 22, Hamilton argues that the federal government must have the power to levy taxes in order to carry out its responsibilities effectively. He writes that "the power to raise money is plausibly an indispensable one in the operations of the federal government," and that without this power, the government would be unable to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, or protect individual rights.

One could argue that the Electoral College serves a similar function in the presidential election. By allowing the states to allocate their electors in a manner that reflects their unique interests and concerns, the Electoral College helps to ensure that the president is elected by a broad and diverse coalition of voters from across the country. This, in turn, helps to ensure that the president is responsive to the needs and concerns of all Americans, rather than just those in a few highly populated areas.

Of course, this argument assumes that the Electoral College is serving its intended purpose effectively, and there is certainly room for debate on that question. However, it is possible to draw some connections between Hamilton's argument in Federalist No. 22 and the Electoral College, and to suggest that the framers saw the Electoral College as a necessary means of ensuring that the president was elected by a broad and diverse coalition of voters from across the country.
Click to expand...
so the electoral college is a bunch of crap LOL?
 
Rumpole said:

America IS a democracy.​

Click to expand...

Hey Stoopid---
​
Democracies are MOB RULE, we were founded as a nation of LAWS. Mob rule is that if 51 out of 100 say they want your house and property, they just TAKE IT, dickwad. A Republic of laws says that the weak have rights equal to the strong and you must go through a court and get a fair hearing.​
​
But we are no longer a democracy nor a republic: In a republic, you have CRIMES when when seen or suspected, are adjudicated BLINDLY according to the Law, no matter who is involved.​
​
Joe Biden and the demented Left have made America into a BANANA REPUBLIC, quite the OPPOSITE now where you have PEOPLE now like Trump who represent a threat to their seat of power (that is the crime, to challenge THEM) who then TARGETS THE INDIVIDUAL NOT THE CRIME, finds some nitpicking crime in the books to charge them with or just invents one like Bragg did in order to have their threat removed so to stay safely in power.​
​
Welcome to communist CHINA, you dummass.


1661999019752.gif


​
 
Last edited:
francoHFW said:
they should've had another vote because Gore won.
Click to expand...
Lie. There were two recounts and Bush won both. That means Bush won three times. Gore wanted another recount with only counties that voted in his favor. The Florida Supreme Court said yes to Gore. Bush appealed to the USSC and they stopped it because the election had to be certified the next day. Gore conceded. You're a liar.
 
toobfreak said:
Hey Stoopid---
​
Democracies are MOB RULE, we were founded as a nation of LAWS. Mob rule is that if 51 out of 100 say they want your house and property, they just TAKE IT, dickwad. A Republic of laws says that the weak have rights equal to the strong and you must go through a court and get a fair hearing.​
​
But we are no longer a democracy nor a republic: In a republic, you have CRIMES when when seen or suspected, are adjudicated BLINDLY according to the Law, no matter who is involved.​
​
Joe Biden and the demented Left have made America into a BANANA REPUBLIC, quite the OPPOSITE now where you have PEOPLE now like Trump instead who represent threats to their seat of power (that is the crime, to challenge THEM) who then TARGETS THEM, finds some nitpicking crime in the books to charge them with or just invents one like Bragg did in order to have their threat removed so to stay safely in power.​
​
Welcome to communist CHINA, you dummass.

​
Click to expand...
Yep, another brand new piece of hateful crap propaganda for the rubes only... we are the country that the Republicans have made in the last 40 years of give away to the rich tax rates and pure obstruction of progress except obamacare and the infrastructure bill finally... Super Duper.
 
francoHFW said:
another brand new piece of hateful crap
Click to expand...
Better go see a proctologist about that, Frank!

francoHFW said:
we are the country that the Republicans have made in the last 40 years
Click to expand...
What an AMAZING achievement by the GOP considering that the democrats have been in charge most of the time responsible for most everything with many opportunities to make the country any way they want, just as Biden has turned us on our ear these past two years when now people just drawing funny cartoons can get ten years in prison while mobster hoods using her federal appointment for raking in millions in personal graft like Hillary walk free.
 
toobfreak said:
Better go see a proctologist about that, Frank!


What an AMAZING achievement by the GOP considering that the democrats have been in charge most of the time responsible for most everything with many opportunities to make the country any way they want, just as Biden has turned us on our ear these past two years when now people just drawing funny cartoons can get ten years in prison while mobster hoods using her federal appointment for raking in millions in personal graft like Hillary walk free.
Click to expand...
That's all you GOP base ignoramus is have, fake news. Which by the way have nothing to do with making a banana republic which is about having the worst inequality and upward mobility ever in our history. Clinton passed nothing Carter passed nothing, you have no clue. So we're only modern country without health care daycare cheap college and training Great infrastructure and vacations paid parental leave, because of brainwashed functional morons like you.
 
BS Filter said:
Lie. There were two recounts and Bush won both. That means Bush won three times. Gore wanted another recount with only counties that voted in his favor. The Florida Supreme Court said yes to Gore. Bush appealed to the USSC and they stopped it because the election had to be certified the next day. Gore conceded. You're a liar.
Click to expand...
 
francoHFW said:
Click to expand...
Keep trying. Gore conceded and lost two recounts besides the initial vote count. Too bad.
 
The United States is not a democracy, has never been a democracy and our founding fathers tried to make sure it would never be a democracy. Talk of "our" democracy makes one seem ignorant. We are a representative republic. The difference between the two is vast and very important.
 
Rumpole said:
{Caveat: those who are weaned on soundbites, one liners and snarky quips, who have subsequent short attention spans, ignore this post]

This trope has been floundering around the conservative/libertarian circles on the right for some time now, and now Trump
has joined the *RNAD regurgitators.

*Republic, Not A Democracy.

Some Republicans claim that 'proof' is in the pledge: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands..."

Uh, no...I'm sorry to inform you on the right, especially republicans, but "Republic", "Constitutional Republic", "Democracy", "Liberal Democracy", "Western Democracy", etc., these are NOT mutually exclusive terms. I know you think they are, but no, they aren't. They are general terms for basically the same principle, that a Democracy, using the broadest sense of the term, which is the most common use of the term, means a nation of liberty, where free speech, freedom of assembly, everyone of age has the vote, and other assorted virtues, prevail, as opposed to a monarchy or dictatorship or totalitarian non democratic nations.


To wit:

...[a] fundamental maxim of republican government...requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. --Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #22

When Madison/Hamilton (i.e., "Publius") was making a distinction between 'Democracy' and 'Republic', favoring a Republic, he wasn't dissing 'Democracy' in the general sense, he/they were using the term in parochial sense, he was making a distinction between a government where laws are voted on by the electorate, a direct democracy, and one that has laws enacted by a Republic consisting of representative body, each of whose members are elected by popular vote. In America, this is the House of Representatives, Congress, and The Senate, i.e., our bicameral legislature which includes the Vice President when a tie vote needs to be broken. They weren't using the term as it has been used in academia, journalism and public spheres as it has ben used for a very long time.
Now, just in case some of you on the right assert that my Fed #22 quote is out of context, but no, because the meat of the statement stands alone and the context it was written in doesn't really change that fact, so context wasn't necessary.

And what was that context? Hamilton was actually arguing that the principle of equal suffrage between states of different sizes (of populations) contradicts the principle that it is a maxim of a republican form of government that the majority should prevail. Because he was arguing in favor of that principle, the principle, as a principle, it therefore stands alone --not to mention that he states that contrary arguments are 'sophistry'. Clearly, Hamilton favors that the majority should prevail in elections. This IS democracy.

Note that, as any encyclopedia will define, the term 'Republic', is a broad term, and is merely any government that is not a monarchy, where the leaders are either voted in OR appointed. also note that all elections, yes, the many thousands of them from local municipalities on up, excluding only the Vice Pres. and President, are voted via direct democracy. Thus only the VP and the Prez are voted via the EC. (Of course, laws are enacted via the legislature and the Prez but we do have laws, known as 'ballot initiatives' enacted by direct vote in many states). So, we can rightfully state that the vast majority of elections in the United States are done via direct democracy.

There are all types of Republics; there are Constitutional Republics (AKA Democratic Republics aligned with a Constitution) , Islamic Republics, There are Socialist Republics, Calvinist Republics, and so on. But, listening to any Republican, (of late) they will assert that a 'Republic" and a "Democracy' are not the same thing. Let's be clear on this point, A Republic may not include a democracy but a democracy is just about always a Republic, and so, most of the time, these days, when we say 'Republic' we are thinking of a democracy of a certain type, which is defined by whatever charter the Republic is aligned with and usually that is a representative democracy of some kind.

America is a Constitutional [Federal] Republic, AKA "Representative Democracy: AKA "Liberal Democracy" AKA "Western Democracy", noting that Representative Democracy refers to the House of Representatives, and not so much the Electoral College. If we didn't have an EC, America would still be a representative democracy. A number of western democracies, or rather, most of them, elect their president by direct, majority vote, yet are still known as 'representative democracies' precisely because of the fact that they have, like that of the US, an elected body of representatives who propose legislation on behalf of constituents. Now, if anyone is going to claim otherwise, no, I don't buy it, because I've learned this since middle school, read it everywhere I've ever read about politics, heard it spoken on the tongues of pundits, academicians, and leaders of every type since I was a teenager interested in the subject --- we were taught, without exception, "America is a Democracy", and "Democracy is core value in America".

I mean, this stupid RNAD thing, well, it's getting out of hand, and I can clearly see what is driving it: IN FACT, this idea that 'America is not a Democracy' became popular with Republicans right about the time they started losing the popular vote. Gee, what a coincidence, it seems they need to dis democracy in order to feel about about their winning the presidency via a particular fluke in the electoral college system. And don't tell me that not winning the popular vote doesn't bother Republicans. I know it really annoys Trump which is why he lied when he said that he would have won the popular vote had not 3 million illegals voted (in the 2016 election, which was a lie). No, y'all would definitely prefer to win the popular vote. Don't tell me otherwise, I just don't believe you.

It's really gotten a lot of traction now, the RNAD myth, given that in the last few decades Republicans are not winning the popular vote, so now they're trying to poo poo democracy, and doing a lot to diminish it, as a matter of fact, and this trope allows them to feel good about doing it. Republics don't like democracy given that of late, it appears that Democracy doesn't like Republicans. Well, they are bringing it on themselves.

Well, I got bad news for Republicans, either you have a democracy or Fascism. It's one or the other and you really need to decide which side you are on. You can move towards one, and when you do, you are moving away from the other, and that, in my view, describes Trumpism, a move away from democracy towards fascism. The Lincoln Repubs recognize this and have rejected Trumpism hence the "Lincoln Project".

America is all about elections. We have local elections in every municipality in America, thousands of them. We have elections in every state for various state level positions form Governor on down. And then we have elections for the House and the Senate, and finally, The President and Vice president via the electoral college. All sorts of elections, so don't tell me, those of you on the right, and Republicans, that America is "not" a democracy because the BS meter is redlining......

View attachment 772373

Any country that has as many elections as America has is a democracy. No, that it's a 'representative democracy' doesn't alter the statement. Remember, the term 'Democracy' has both broad and parochial usages.

www.dailykos.com

The Trumpist claim that we're 'a republic, not a democracy' is even more dangerous than it sounds

Trumpist Republicans are lately in the habit of repeating this doozy of a notion that the United States of America is “a republic, not a democracy” (RNAD). Often, this comes as a response to ...
www.dailykos.com

Trumpist Republicans are lately in the habit of repeating this doozy of a notion that the United States of America is “a republic, not a democracy” (RNAD). Often, this comes as a response to statements like, “Trumpism is a threat to democracy!” While your first reaction might have been, “Huh?” or, “Are these stone-cold nincompoops out of their ever-loving minds?” the refrain remains a consistent rebuttal from the extreme right.

Responding to RNAD requires understanding what right-wing extremists mean when they say “a republic, not a democracy.” It means they don’t care about democracy. This line of argument provides an ideological justification for some of the most extreme actions being taken by members of the MAGAsphere—actions aimed at thwarting American democracy itself.

BINGO!

A democracy is often a term referring to....

1. A nation where citizens enjoy rights.
2. A nation where citizens enjoy certain freedoms, of speech, free assembly, freedom to work, be self-employed, to achieve one's aims, etc.
3. Freedom of religion, or freedom from religion
4. The right to vote once one is 18.
5. A nation with a government of elected leaders, either directly or indirectly.
6. A Republic, Federal, Constitutional, or otherwise, which is, essentially, a government of elected leaders, indirectly or directly, whose legislation is enacted by the elected representatives constituting a 'representative democracy' generally under the governance of a constitution.

Definition of republic

1a(1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government

View attachment 772394

AKA 'representative democracy' AKA 'liberal democracies' AKA 'western democracies' AKA or just 'democracy'.

www.theatlantic.com

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument
Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.


And it so states right on the Government's own website:


Democracy in the United States.

The United States is a representative democracy. This means that our government is elected by citizens. Here, citizens vote for their government officials. These officials represent the citizens’ ideas and concerns in government. Voting is one way to participate in our democracy. Citizens can also contact their officials when they want to support or change a law. Voting in an election and contacting our elected officials are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy.

Democrats, do not let Republicans bamboozle anyone on this point, America IS a democracy. Yes, there are times when it might be in doubt, but in principle, though our democracy is far from perfect, so with all of it's flaws, America is a Democracy.
Click to expand...



You truly are a vacuous blowhard.
 
westwall said:
You truly are a vacuous blowhard.
Click to expand...
That's rich, why, such anemia inflicted animus is a true wonder of prosaic prose!

And you are, what, God's intellectual gift to us mere mortals?

Well, let's take a look at another pearl of so-called wisdom you had the unfortunate moment of dysfunction to spew on USMB,

"The deep state is going after Trump to warn all of the rest of us. The time is fast approaching when there is no longer law and order. That is a time you should fear, but you don't. Because you are a moron."

Brilliant westwall, utterly spasmodic in it's depth and mental midgetry!

My dear intrepid interlocutor, your declaration reeks of ignorance and paranoia. The notion of a so-called "deep state" conspiring against a democratically elected leader is a tired and baseless trope used by those who lack the intellectual depth to comprehend the complexities of government.

Your insinuation that the "deep state" is warning the rest of us is nothing but fear-mongering and a desperate attempt to cling onto a crumbling ideology. The fact that you cannot see the danger in such rhetoric only serves to highlight your own inadequacies.

Your prediction of a world without law and order is not only unfounded, but it also reveals your lack of faith in the institutions that uphold our society. Instead of engaging in paranoid fantasies, why not put your energy into working towards a better future for all?

In conclusion, my dear opponent, your lack of intellectual prowess is a source of great amusement to me. Your baseless accusations and fear-mongering serve only to demonstrate your own shortcomings. Perhaps it is time for you to retire to the safety of your echo chamber, and leave the real debates to those with the intelligence and integrity to engage in them

So, I dub thee honoree and winner of the Blistering, Blathering, Blustering, Bloviating Blowhard award!

You are the Master Bloviator blowing harder than the rest us mortals, an inescapable truth!

Congratulations!

Crack open a bottle of cheap tokay, it's time to celebrate!

The real sad truth is, I've been paying attention to your many replies, it's all in the public domain,
and deep down I think you know this, you are nothing more than a dullard, a mediocrity, a dangling dandelion amongst sunflowers and that you envy them makes you miserable, such that you have to come to this forum
and spew your mediocrity on others in the pathetic hope you might puff yourself up onto some perch where
you can ignore the deep void that lingers in your soul, and you are running from it, like a scared mouse.

Now please go pester someone else.

Not-so-humbly tendered,
Rumpole
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Manchin regrets deal he cut to vote for Inflation Reduction Act, blasts Biden in scathing op-ed...

< Previous Thread

This is a must watch or listen

Next Thread >

Similar threads

Mr. Friscus
"Anti-Democracy"? Democracy is actually not an American Principle, the Founders warned against it
7 8 9
Replies
165
Views
1K
Curried Goats
Curried Goats
0311
For 248 Years American Democracy Has Stood.
5 6 7
Replies
139
Views
1K
Harry Dresden
Harry Dresden
Votto
The Big Lie, that Brandon is Democracy
Replies
2
Views
73
kyzr
kyzr
H
Defenders of Democracy Are at It Again: Dems Sue to Remove RFK From Nevada Ballot, Calling Him 'Spoiler'
Replies
8
Views
137
Missouri_Mike
Missouri_Mike
Robert W
For voters calling the US a Democracy ... well now
Replies
6
Views
87
Robert W
Robert W

Latest Discussions

citygator
  • Poll
Who will be President Kamala Harris’ VP?
17 18 19
Replies
361
Views
2K
Richard-H
Richard-H
Sixties Fan
Harris VS Trump 2024
2 3
Replies
40
Views
129
BackAgain
BackAgain
WelfareQueen
How the GOP Will Attack Harris
4 5 6
Replies
118
Views
456
initforme
I
Tommy Tainant
"article 49 of the fourth geneva convention”.- Israels illegal theft of west bank land and sponsoring of thug settlers is illegal
5 6 7
Replies
126
Views
657
Sherlock Holmes
Sherlock Holmes
Litwin
  • Poll
Bolton : "This is madness. Trump has no idea how he ´ll negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine" I Gen. Hodges: " Beating Moscow is Our Only Choice "
4 5 6
Replies
108
Views
318
Litwin
Litwin
View more…

Forum List

Back
Top