Do liberals even like this country?

[charwin95]

So what does that have to do with my question?

Obviously the people who look to other countries are doing so to show alternatives to how we do things here.

It seems to me they want us to change this country into one of the others, it's not just a suggestion.

The problem is there is only one USA, but there are plenty of liberal, socialist and Communist countries to go to. Once they destroy the USA, there is no other USA we can run to. So why try to change this one and unique place into something that's already out there?

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

 

[charwin95]

I NEED YOU TO PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
What or give us an example ----- What made you say the liberals want to make this country entirely different? Like what?

For crying out loud, all you have to read is the OP to understand what this conversation is about.

As always you are trying to deflect.
Answer the question Ray.

 

[WEATHER53]

Liberals live a one way street. They don't like to do much but they love telling others what they should be doing

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what does that have to do with my question?

Obviously the people who look to other countries are doing so to show alternatives to how we do things here.

It seems to me they want us to change this country into one of the others, it's not just a suggestion.

The problem is there is only one USA, but there are plenty of liberal, socialist and Communist countries to go to. Once they destroy the USA, there is no other USA we can run to. So why try to change this one and unique place into something that's already out there?

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

The real division comes from the left, not the right; much of that though the DumBama years.

What did the liberals change since 2016? Nothing. People voted to stop them.

Good to hear you know what the world thinks of the US. It must be a dirty little secret that only Democrats share because that's the new talking point of the left. But of course, it's Trumps tweets that divide the country.

 

[francoHFW]

Liberals live a one way street. They don't like to do much but they love telling others what they should be doing

Considering how misinformed, brainwashed, racist the dupes are, it's a full time job. See sig.

 

[francoHFW]

So what does that have to do with my question?

Obviously the people who look to other countries are doing so to show alternatives to how we do things here.

It seems to me they want us to change this country into one of the others, it's not just a suggestion.

The problem is there is only one USA, but there are plenty of liberal, socialist and Communist countries to go to. Once they destroy the USA, there is no other USA we can run to. So why try to change this one and unique place into something that's already out there?

Let's see. As we stand today. Who is destroying this country? Liberals is always been the same and it has not change after 2016. Did liberals change anything? Who is making all these nonsense tweets?
Because of Trump and people like you--- This country is divided far more than we ever had. The world no longer see us as the leader but a laughing stock because of stupidity and ignorance. Historically very low ratings here and overseas.

This is NOT Making America Great.

The real division comes from the left, not the right; much of that though the DumBama years.

What did the liberals change since 2016? Nothing. People voted to stop them.

Good to hear you know what the world thinks of the US. It must be a dirty little secret that only Democrats share because that's the new talking point of the left. But of course, it's Trumps tweets that divide the country.

There's a million facts like that. People around the world don't get Fox, Rush etc and don't understant why you're so dumb. You're actually brainwashed...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This non-stop Russia thing is going to continue to kill your party just like the racist, sexist, homophobe deplorables did.

So Ray blues and the rest of your ilk ,,,we're just supposed to turn away ,keep on walking when we see this AH in our WH act just like the ass he is What president speaks to an enemy in private with only the Russian translator available AND doesn't even report it?? This WH from the president on down to his Freddo son is a den of iniquity and you nitwits support him SHAME

Here's the deal: people get sick of BS stories and stories that don't mean a damn thing. Every time somebody that even knew Trump farted near a Russian, some loser leftist wrote a story about it like it mattered. So how many Russian stories have we been treated to here on USMB that didn't amount to squat, like 20 or more?

It's the boy that cried wolf and nobody even cares anymore. It just makes the left look really really bad to people that are not true leftists.

So we should just ignore that meeting with trump jr,the son in law etc etc with russians who promised dirt on hillary??? Real patriots?? and they don't say a word about the meeting and lie about who was there ?? This bunch of crooks and con men in our WH was cleaning the swamp?

So he did. What was accomplished by that? Nothing. What laws did he break? None. But I'm sure that if Hillary had the same opportunity, she would have turned her back on it in a heartbeat.

Hillary and most other politicians with a shred of common sense would know that if the Russians offer you secrets

You run the other way

Yes, that woman is so full of integrity. She would never dream of trying to get dirt on Trump no more than she would try to get debate questions before the debate..............WHOOPS!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

no they won't Eddie because the union's drove their business overseas and most corporate folk condone sweatshop labor because it keeps labor costs low.....LMAO.

Yep, because industry caters to consumer demands, and the American consumer wants cheaper goods. How do you think Walmart became number one?

 

[rightwinger]

So Ray blues and the rest of your ilk ,,,we're just supposed to turn away ,keep on walking when we see this AH in our WH act just like the ass he is What president speaks to an enemy in private with only the Russian translator available AND doesn't even report it?? This WH from the president on down to his Freddo son is a den of iniquity and you nitwits support him SHAME

Here's the deal: people get sick of BS stories and stories that don't mean a damn thing. Every time somebody that even knew Trump farted near a Russian, some loser leftist wrote a story about it like it mattered. So how many Russian stories have we been treated to here on USMB that didn't amount to squat, like 20 or more?

It's the boy that cried wolf and nobody even cares anymore. It just makes the left look really really bad to people that are not true leftists.

So we should just ignore that meeting with trump jr,the son in law etc etc with russians who promised dirt on hillary??? Real patriots?? and they don't say a word about the meeting and lie about who was there ?? This bunch of crooks and con men in our WH was cleaning the swamp?

So he did. What was accomplished by that? Nothing. What laws did he break? None. But I'm sure that if Hillary had the same opportunity, she would have turned her back on it in a heartbeat.

Hillary and most other politicians with a shred of common sense would know that if the Russians offer you secrets

You run the other way

Yes, that woman is so full of integrity. She would never dream of trying to get dirt on Trump no more than she would try to get debate questions before the debate..............WHOOPS!

It is not as much integrity as common sense

Russians come up to you and offer you secrets and you don't suspect it may be a setup?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

here out Wal-Mart raised their wages to $14 per hour for their employees.....that's the starting wage. That is a very smart business move because now they will get more production from their employees. Now Ray you must cringe at the thought because you always side with the management but to me it makes all the sense in the world. More pay more production better employees apply. Mom wage means the employer expects basically no production.

More than likely Walmart is paying their employees that wage because of the natural supply and demand of labor. If a business can't get employees for X amount of money, they need to increase their rate of pay to attract workers. I'm all for it, that's why I'm against immigration.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Naw, I call it humane. But if you think that a poor girl from the ghetto has the same opportunities you and I had, you are deluding yourself.

So please explain: what opportunities didn't she have???

The best one I can think of is ,,born in a ghetto to parents who to put it politely have no right to have any children

Everybody has a right to have children as long as it's not the taxpayer supporting them. If you can afford to support six children, by all means, have six children. If you want six children and want me to support them, that is something you don't have a right to.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

Well, dickweed, when other places rate significantly higher in the health systems, education systems, incarceration rate., & lower gun death rates, I think they should be looked at.

To you gun toting Trumpettes we should ignore the fact.

The US ranks anywhere from 7th to 20th in education.

In a London based study on healthcare, the US fails to be in the top 15

In incarceration rate listing where the lower the better, we rank 220 out of 221.

And you want to brag about that?

You call those who tell these facts unAmerican?

The fact is other places do some things better than we do. Having the good sense to see it & learn is not anti-American. It take more than toting your gun to be an American.

Yep, and thanks for proving my point: all these other places are so much better than the US. So the key is to turn the US into one of those other places.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here's the deal: people get sick of BS stories and stories that don't mean a damn thing. Every time somebody that even knew Trump farted near a Russian, some loser leftist wrote a story about it like it mattered. So how many Russian stories have we been treated to here on USMB that didn't amount to squat, like 20 or more?

It's the boy that cried wolf and nobody even cares anymore. It just makes the left look really really bad to people that are not true leftists.

So we should just ignore that meeting with trump jr,the son in law etc etc with russians who promised dirt on hillary??? Real patriots?? and they don't say a word about the meeting and lie about who was there ?? This bunch of crooks and con men in our WH was cleaning the swamp?

So he did. What was accomplished by that? Nothing. What laws did he break? None. But I'm sure that if Hillary had the same opportunity, she would have turned her back on it in a heartbeat.

Hillary and most other politicians with a shred of common sense would know that if the Russians offer you secrets

You run the other way

Yes, that woman is so full of integrity. She would never dream of trying to get dirt on Trump no more than she would try to get debate questions before the debate..............WHOOPS!

It is not as much integrity as common sense

Russians come up to you and offer you secrets and you don't suspect it may be a setup?

If it was a setup, I'm sure Hillary was behind it.

 

[initforme]

The facts aren't unamerican. It's not unamerican to look at what other countries do. What Ray is saying is we don't want wholesale change in American ideals. Tweaks here and there are necessary at times. I for one believe major division within a country strengthens it. Being United never works.

 

[LeftofLeft]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

Honeybunch, you couldn't debate anyone. Go play with your vibrator.

Exactly the reply I expect from a person of limited intelligence.

Obama did not love America.......he loved the transformation of America.

 

[initforme]

1) God
2) family
after that somewhere down the list is country. I don't worry about country all that much and neither do the rest of you.

 

[rightwinger]

So we should just ignore that meeting with trump jr,the son in law etc etc with russians who promised dirt on hillary??? Real patriots?? and they don't say a word about the meeting and lie about who was there ?? This bunch of crooks and con men in our WH was cleaning the swamp?

So he did. What was accomplished by that? Nothing. What laws did he break? None. But I'm sure that if Hillary had the same opportunity, she would have turned her back on it in a heartbeat.

Hillary and most other politicians with a shred of common sense would know that if the Russians offer you secrets

You run the other way

Yes, that woman is so full of integrity. She would never dream of trying to get dirt on Trump no more than she would try to get debate questions before the debate..............WHOOPS!

It is not as much integrity as common sense

Russians come up to you and offer you secrets and you don't suspect it may be a setup?

If it was a setup, I'm sure Hillary was behind it.

No.....only the Trump campaign would be stupid enough to team up with the Russians

With all those smart people, you would think there would be somebody to point out that it might not be a good idea

 

[frigidweirdo]

And how does any thing you posted with your completely errant fantasy meaning justify the government TAKING what one person used his opportunity to create and giving it to a pile of liberal shit who squandered his opportunity? YOU scum are just pure ignorant shit {We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union, ESTABLISH JUSTICE (that means that you don't steal what is not yours, including what another person reaps from HIS labors), Insure domestic tranquility (liberals hate this) it means their riots are contrary to the constitution and the us military could be constitutionally used to stop it., Provide for the common defense, (which you liberal scum hate because it protects everyone else from your attacks) Promote the GENERAL WELFARE, (which means to support communities as they need to sustain and protect themselves.), And secure the blessings of liberty to US ( not others, US meaning citizens of this country) and our posterity (OUR CHILDREN).}

The government collects taxes and elected officials decide how that money should be spent

That is not stealing it is democracy

But then if someone comes along "hey, i'll give you one million if you give me a tax break...", that's called a bribe.

If one could only prove it which in most cases never happens.

Proving it isn't hard. The problem is that it has been LEGITIMIZED by the system.

How to funnel money to politicians 101.

There are two ways of giving money to politicians. The first is through channels where people can see what you're giving, and the other is so nobody has a clue what you're giving.

From $25 to $10,000,000: A Guide to Political Donations - Campaign Finance - Election 2012 - NYTimes.com

Here's a guide of how to funnel money to politicians.

The Top 10 Things Every Voter Should Know About Money-in-Politics | OpenSecrets

Half of all money comes from large donations from individuals, ie, rich people.

I mean, there are limits on how much you can "officially" give to candidate, but through super PACs and all that nonsense, there's no limit.

And it's just legitimized bribery.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Exactly, you make a question where you say everyone on the left gets fucked over and nobody on the right gets fucked over by rich people. Well, that's just wrong, isn't it?

How so? You never hear us saying that, do you? So apparently we are not getting fucked by anybody except the government; that's who we complain about fucking us. You on the left keep telling us the rich fucks you, but can't explain how.

Haha, you say Republicans don't give to the rich, just allow them to keep what they already have. Oh, Ray, you seriously can't be that naive, can you?

Outside of campaign donations (which happens on both sides) what have the Republicans given the rich? Another question you won't be able to answer.

The money they have has been gained in immoral circumstances. If I run a company and I don't pay tax, I can sell my product for less than my competitor, which means more people buy my product, which means my competitor goes out of business, then I have lots of money and he has none. Did I make this money all on my own? Fuck no I did not.

Tax breaks for certain industries apply to all industries that make similar products. After this healthcare thing, Trump will address taxes and lets see what he comes up with. Democrats have never done that except to raise them.

Ray, the extent of my political conversations with right wing people isn't that wide. Just because I don't hear directly from someone, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But then again, it's besides the point. So, the party of the rich doesn't complain about the rich..... but then some of those who do vote for the Republicans will complain about what happens.

What have the Republicans given the rich? Seriously?

Let's see, because I CAN answer this question.

The only issue here is that what you see as "giving" is different to what I see.

But, I'll try under your view of giving.

First - giving an unfair advantage.

Like I've said before. If you give an unfair advantage to one company over another, it's essentially corruption, favoritism, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. There are many ways of expressing this sort of thing.

Tax incentives get Amazon to build fulfillment center in Katy

"
Tax incentives get Amazon to build fulfillment center in Katy"

This is in Waller County, Texas. Represented in the Texas Senate by a Republican, represented in the Texas House by a Republican. Represented in Federal govt by three Republicans.

I'd say this place is Republican.

"As part of the deal, the county will refund at least 50 percent of the taxes Amazon pays on the facility if the combined value of its property and inventory exceeds $100 million. The agreement requires the company to employ at least 800 people there and hold an annual job fair."

So, Amazon gets to pay half the amount of taxes than other companies. How many people in the area will be able to compete with Amazon? How many businessmen and women will see their business fold because they cannot compete.

You might say this is Amazon's money. I say it's not. I say there money is there for the taking, but Amazon will take it because they have managed to bribe the county into giving them a deal that makes them uber competitive.

""There's no other deal that compares to this," County Judge Trey Duhon said. "This is Amazon, and when you have a Fortune 100 company, it's a whole different ball game.""

Essentially this guy is saying that unless you're a top 100 company, you aren't going to get this kind of deal.

And while Waller County might be sitting there looking good, because it's got jobs, how many jobs are going to be lost elsewhere? Lots. Lots of businesses in Texas and all over the US are going to be lost. Republicans are going to lose their businesses (from a previous thread, right, about Republicans getting screwed over by the rich) as well as Democrats, a monopoly is going to be closer and closer as each competitor dies off and Amazon takes another slice of the pie, adding more jobs their their stack, making their power even great, their money to bribe officials to give them a sweet deal.

This is what the Republicans are giving Amazon, a part share in a monopoly, an unfair advantage, a larger share of the market.

Now, Democrats do this too.

Amazon's Tax Breaks

"The Boston Globe has a report on how the internet retailer Amazon has negotiated state and local tax breaks for two warehouses in Massachusetts. Last year, Amazon got $600,000 in state tax credits and $2.89 million in local tax breaks for a facility in Stoughton, Mass. The second facility, in Fall River and Freetown, Mass., will benefit from $11.6 million in real estate and personal property tax breaks, along with a still undisclosed state tax credit."

Now, Norfolk County, MA is mostly Democrat. 35% to 11% officially registered. They haven't voted Republican in a Presidential election since 1984.

So, can we say that Democrats also hand out the cash in this way? Yes, we can. However the system whereby local counties, states etc pay companies to relocate is something very American, it doesn't happen within the EU, there are laws to stop it and I think Google had to pay money because Ireland tried to give them an unfair advantage deal.

Who keeps this sort of system in place? Well, probably the republicans, but maybe Democrats too. But those who do it, are almost certain in the pay of such companies. The companies are controlling this sort of thing.

Thank you for that typical liberal reply demonstrating that you don't understand the difference between "giving" somebody something and "taking less" away. So I'll try to explain this one more time:

If you snuck into your neighbors home once a week and stole $100.00 while he was walking his dog, but then felt guilty after a while and reduced your theft to $50.00 a week, did you give just your neighbor $50.00 a week? Of course not, you just stole less.

Tax incentives to attract new businesses (or keep existing ones) to your city or state is something politicians on both sides of the aisle do. It's a practice that works and is also an investment for the city or state because they will get much more in return. It's how cities and states compete against each other to draw those businesses. So don't say that it's Republicans that do it.

When you "give" somebody something, it means you provided them with something they didn't have before. Our welfare programs are a perfect example of that.

So, if you hand someone a monopoly, is this giving or taking?

If you give someone an unfair advantage, is this giving or taking?

Yes, you've given that nonsense analogy about ten times already, there's no point doing it again and again and again.

Tax incentives attract new businesses. Sure they do. I get what you're saying. You're just not looking BEYOND this.

Look at what the EU has done. It has said to all EU countries, you can set the tax rates however you like, we don't care, 0%, 50%, 150% who cares? But what you cannot do is have a tax rate for everyone, and then give special deals to companies. Simply said everyone in that country pays the rates that are going, or they don't.

The difference here is that in the US companies can get what they want. They can go to counties, they can go to states and basically be like "we'll come to you if we don't pay much in tax" and the counties will be like, "we need jobs".

What this does is it plays off different areas against other areas, within the same country. Essentially the country has rolled over like a useless fucking dog, bearing its nipples and asking to have all the milk sucked out of it.

The impact of this, which you conveniently ignore, is that large companies, like Amazon, will ALWAYS get a cheap deal. What it also means is that smaller companies are (how many times do I have to say this for you not to ignore it?) not playing on a level playing field.

What it also means is that the guys doing the deals with companies, like Amazon, get nice little kickbacks.

So, the politicians get their cash for allowing it to happen, the companies get an unfair competitive advantage, and for some fucking reason, you're loving it every step of the way.

You love politicians getting kickbacks from companies in order for the politicians to do the bidding of the companies, you somehow seem to think that by giving BRIBES (there is no other word to describe what this money is) is great, you seem to think that people who have been elected by THE PEOPLE to represent THE PEOPLE and then turn around and take BRIBES to do the bidding of companies is great.

You love large corporations being able to buy politicians

You love large companies getting unfair advantages

You love small companies getting fucked over on a daily basis because they can't compete with the larger companies

Yes, you have a lot of loving.

And then you come on here and tell me I don't know the difference between giving and taking as if I'm some dumb fuck who hasn't been outside of his fucking village ever.

Then you write "When you "give" somebody something, it means you provided them with something they didn't have before. Our welfare programs are a perfect example of that."

And this is a perfect example of companies GIVING to politicians so politicians GIVE something to companies they didn't have before. Unless of course you're saying that companies had sweet deals before, so it's okay if they carry on bribing the hell out of politicians.

When you give an unfair advantage to companies like Amazon, is this not giving?

No, it's not giving. It's taking less. You say I told that story a dozen times, yet it still didn't sink into your head.

Yes, cities and states do compete against each other. That's how it's done in a free country. The city that takes the least will likely draw those businesses.

Either you watch too many television movies or you have evidence of these so-calle bribes you speak about. If so, I suggest you turn your evidence over to the FBI. Better still, turn that evidence over to your local news room. They may even offer to pay you for this evidence. Just make sure it's not against Bill or Hillary, otherwise you might end up committing suicide. Can't wait for the breaking news you provided the media any day now.

Big businesses put smaller businesses out of business by selling more to their customers. Larger companies can make better deals with vendors than can smaller companies because of volume. Therefore they can sell their items cheaper and make the same profit as smaller businesses who sell for more.

It's like that liberal urban legend how Walmart put mom and pop stores out of business. Walmart did no such thing. They opened up their store, and people decided they would rather shop at Walmart because they had cheaper prices. The customers put those mom and pop shops out of business--not Walmart.

Just because you tell me something, doesn't me I agree with you.

Again, they're not taking less, they're GIVING people the chance to be uber competitive.

You've completely ignored what I've said about this.

People buy at Walmart because of cheaper prices, how did they manage to get prices CHEAPER? Come on Ray? The govt gives you a massive tax break simply because you'll bribe the politicians, and you think this is fair game. Then they're uber competitive, and they take over the market.

And you LOVE THIS.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Radical liberals created America and have had a happy monogamous 241 year relationship with her ever since.

Conservatives used to also have such a relationship with America but you've turned your eye to Russia. That whore. The sight of Putin with his shirt off and his murderer's eyes just swept you cons off your feet, and now you will sell out the founders of America and all it's current citizens to be with your new love, Russia. You should go, be happy, go be with Puty Pute. Put on your bear's hide coat and babushka, gather your vodka together and go be happy. We're sorry to see you fooled by this hood but your minds seem made up.

So go.