Ebola 2020... Wuhan coronavirus

[Circe]

Earliest Wuhan Pneumonia Symptoms Observed Dec. 12, Authorities Say



Apparently they knew this virus was different & spreading back in December. Medical personnel reported it to WHO in China, but that's as far as it got. So for nearly 2 months that 'bug' has run rampant before any action to contain it was taken.

I just think that a country like China, that is the major source of infectious deadly illness's, should be more on the ball with it. Especially since there is a lab right there in Wuhan that studies these diseases.

There sure is a lot of contradictory news. A Reuters article I read just today said the earliest cases were Dec. 29 (not yet one month!! This is how fast these things can blow up). It was FOUR young, strong workers at that fish market and they all had pneumonia, which of course you wouldn't expect them to catch. My article said they DID do virus typing and within two weeks had identified it, named it, and sent out pictures and specs all over the world. I don't know --- sounds a little propagandized to me; I'd be more inclined to believe your Dec. 12 date.

But I agree -- they hoped it was nothing. Anyone would. You can't put out a big hoo-ha about EVERYthing that happens.

Oops. It was something.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Earliest Wuhan Pneumonia Symptoms Observed Dec. 12, Authorities Say



Apparently they knew this virus was different & spreading back in December. Medical personnel reported it to WHO in China, but that's as far as it got. So for nearly 2 months that 'bug' has run rampant before any action to contain it was taken.

I just think that a country like China, that is the major source of infectious deadly illness's, should be more on the ball with it. Especially since there is a lab right there in Wuhan that studies these diseases.

There sure is a lot of contradictory news. A Reuters article I read just today said the earliest cases were Dec. 29 (not yet one month!! This is how fast these things can blow up). It was FOUR young, strong workers at that fish market and they all had pneumonia, which of course you wouldn't expect them to catch. My article said they DID do virus typing and within two weeks had identified it, named it, and sent out pictures and specs all over the world. I don't know --- sounds a little propagandized to me; I'd be more inclined to believe your Dec. 12 date.

But I agree -- they hoped it was nothing. Anyone would. You can't put out a big hoo-ha about EVERYthing that happens.

Oops. It was something.

Yep to the propaganda.....I think China only publicized it because of cases outside it's borders and been scrambling to cover their butt. It didn't help that they had arrested people for spreading 'rumors'...….which may or may not have been true.

 

[sparky]

I love details! But, since I am not a virologist, I will likely defer to the expertise of virologists, just like you do in your job.

ex job

but stick around, i still have resources....

Apparently they knew this virus was different & spreading back in December. Medical personnel reported it to WHO in China, but that's as far as it got

the $ stops @ WHO

There sure is a lot of contradictory news

yes Circe

most of it hype w/out much context

~S~

 

[theHawk]

Earliest Wuhan Pneumonia Symptoms Observed Dec. 12, Authorities Say



Apparently they knew this virus was different & spreading back in December. Medical personnel reported it to WHO in China, but that's as far as it got. So for nearly 2 months that 'bug' has run rampant before any action to contain it was taken.

I just think that a country like China, that is the major source of infectious deadly illness's, should be more on the ball with it. Especially since there is a lab right there in Wuhan that studies these diseases.

There sure is a lot of contradictory news. A Reuters article I read just today said the earliest cases were Dec. 29 (not yet one month!! This is how fast these things can blow up). It was FOUR young, strong workers at that fish market and they all had pneumonia, which of course you wouldn't expect them to catch. My article said they DID do virus typing and within two weeks had identified it, named it, and sent out pictures and specs all over the world. I don't know --- sounds a little propagandized to me; I'd be more inclined to believe your Dec. 12 date.

But I agree -- they hoped it was nothing. Anyone would. You can't put out a big hoo-ha about EVERYthing that happens.

Oops. It was something.

Yep to the propaganda.....I think China only publicized it because of cases outside it's borders and been scrambling to cover their butt. It didn't help that they had arrested people for spreading 'rumors'...….which may or may not have been true.

Wuhan is where the Chinese bio-warfare labs are.

Could the Communists be lying about the origins?

 

[Circe]

Wuhan is where the Chinese bio-warfare labs are.

Could the Communists be lying about the origins?

They COULD be lying --- we KNOW the Soviets were lying about that anthrax in the Urals in the 1970s. They had a bioweapons lab explosion, made the whole area uninhabitable for --- well, I guess, still.

However, what with all the other similar diseases from China even in late years -- SARS, bird flu, all the very serious influenzas like Hong Kong flu (I caught that one and it was BAD) --- I'd say parsimony says probably the little germs climbed out of a badger or snake or something and into the people by themselves, clever little things.

 

[sparky]

so if everyone has flu like symptoms that nobody tests for....how do they determine what strain it is???

However, what with all the other similar diseases from China even in late years -- SARS, bird flu, all the very serious influenzas like Hong Kong flu (I caught that one and it was BAD) --- I'd say parsimony says probably the little germs climbed out of a badger or snake or something and into the people by themselves, clever little things.

trans species is how Ebola debuted

which is all about humans in proximity to animals , along with the ability for a virus to mutate to new hosts

and they do mutate , quicker in fact than the medical world can keep up to

considering the CDC's 'best guess' six months in advance are what smith klien & becham hang their hat on , it's not surprise that flu shot we get is not even targeting the strain du jour .....another $$$ placebo

but i digress, it's the chain of infection that is important

there has to be a reservoir, virulence is a HUGE factor, there has to be a portal of exit, a means of transmission, and a portal of entry (new host) and this is the kicker....incubation time ....

~S~

 

[Circe]

considering the CDC's 'best guess' six months in advance are what smith klien & becham hang their hat on , it's not surprise that flu shot we get is not even targeting the strain du jour .....another $$$ placebo

Yes, I agree. I've been following all this for years and got disgusted with the pharmaceutical and medical industries fooling the country with these worthless flu shots they tout as if they were a cure-all when they hardly work at all. I decided to quit with the flu vaccines as of this past fall. It's just a ploy to get everyone into the doctor's office, and talk us into more and more harmful invasive screenings and procedures and tests and false positive results. I don't do any of that anymore.

 

[sparky]

I decided to quit with the flu vaccines as of this past fall

As i eventually did also Circe , and i was offered them free when i served in ems

the thought then was it better to work on one's immunological response , an essential component of the chain of infection

~S~

 

[sparky]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/2019-ncov-factsheet.pdf

~S~

 

[JustAnotherNut]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/2019-ncov-factsheet.pdf

~S~

So I only read the first couple of paragraphs of this but they are making claims that just don't make sense as it's only very recently been written as it includes the first US case discovered 1/21....barely a week ago and it's still not clear just how many here have it. And as other reports say it's incubation is 2 weeks (standard in most contagions) Seems CDC is just trying to calm fears by playing it low key

Travel out of China (more specifically Wuhan) to outside ports of call I would expect to be numerous from December until they shut it down. The few reported cases outside China would only be the beginning. How many do we have here now?? Less than 10 or so isn't it? Those planes hold alot more than 10 passengers and I'd bet all of our cases were not on the same flight. The ripple effect could take months.

 

[Zorro!]

The first case appears in Washington State. Trump will be golfing again soon, no doubt.

CDC expected to announce first US case of Wuhan coronavirus - CNN

Should more cases appear, let's see if the right absolutely loses their tiny minds again like they did over Ebola or if they don't care about diseases anymore.

What an astute point! That case appeared because Trump golfs. You have an amazing ability to see connections where none exist! Awesome!

Comparing the coronavirus to the flu is stupid.

In contrast to Ebola, which was discovered decades ago, the coronavirus strain behind the outbreak that began in China is brand-new to scientists. So far this pathogen has claimed 638 lives, and we simply don’t know how it will behave in weeks and months to come. By telling people not to worry—or that we should worry “more” about the flu—we may end up eroding public trust in the media. What happens if this coronavirus proves much worse than we expected? The Chinese government is already under scrutiny for downplaying the risks. Why would US news outlets want to repeat the error?

Even taken on their own terms, the flu comparisons rely on wonky and myopic math. Flu can kill Amercans by the tens of thousands, but that’s because it’s been around so long and has had so much time to spread. Millions get the virus every year, and fewer than 0.1 percent of them perish from it. What’s the rate of death from the new coronavirus? No one can say for certain, but estimates have hovered at around 20 times the rate for influenza, or 2 percent. Some virologists assert this is an overestimate, because milder cases might be getting overlooked; others counter that, given lack of access to diagnostic testing, many deaths may be uncounted. In short, it’s too soon to say. It’s also unclear how efficiently this coronavirus spreads from person to person. The total number of confirmed cases has grown from 282 on January 21 to 31,211 on February 7. It’s possible the spread will slow. Or else it might accelerate. In light of this uncertainty, perhaps we shouldn’t be so quick to counsel everyone to “get a grippe” on their concerns.

The difference is, we know the general scope of seasonal flu. An epidemic of a new disease is different because we don’t know what the limit is. If you want to bet, based on history, that even a scary new disease will probably fizzle out, you have an excellent chance of being right. But history also shows that not all such outbreaks fizzle out, and that some of them are catastrophic. You’re not wrong to worry about that, either.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's a virus, obviously contagious...….why wouldn't they make it public as their system is supposed to do.

Because that takes time to discover. And a lot of errors can happen along the way. They weren't operating on absolute knowledge, just probabilities.

 

[Roudy]

Apparently even the local Wutan band is also under quarantine:

 

[Manonthestreet]

Saw an interesting article today wondering how many "undesirables" China is disappearing under the cover of this medical crisis. People who aren't sick.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

It's a virus, obviously contagious...….why wouldn't they make it public as their system is supposed to do.

Because that takes time to discover. And a lot of errors can happen along the way. They weren't operating on absolute knowledge, just probabilities.

The point was......when the first guy showed up at the hospital with symptoms of a 'mysterious virus'.....it should have been their first clue to quarantine him until they figured it out. Sure there would have been more showing up, but if they were quarantined early on this wouldn't have had to go global.

Their second clue would have been having that high tech lab right in the same area. It's not that damn hard to put the two together & act on it ASAP

 

[Dana7360]

The first case appears in Washington State. Trump will be golfing again soon, no doubt.

CDC expected to announce first US case of Wuhan coronavirus - CNN

Should more cases appear, let's see if the right absolutely loses their tiny minds again like they did over Ebola or if they don't care about diseases anymore.

The only reason why they went nuts over ebola was because Obama was president. They could use that disease as a weapon against Obama.

Meanwhile innocent people were harmed. People forget the nurse who treated people with ebola in Africa. She came back to America but the far right radical extremists threw fits about it saying she was going to kill us all. That she and Obama had a plot to kill Americans with the disease. While the innocent nurse's life was turned upside down, including receiving death threats.

The same far right radical extremists will do the exact opposite now because trump is president.

 

[Dana7360]

Wuhan Coronavirus: China was warned in 2017 that a deadly virus could escape its level 4 safety lab in Wuhan


As the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak escalates, the only lab in China which is equipped to study and deal with such deadly and emerging infectious diseases is located in Wuhan -- the city where the virus first appeared.


Yeah, just WHAT are they not telling??

Possibly something like the virus MAY change patriotic, sane conservatives into insane, brain dead liberals? THAT would be horrific!

I was thinking more like this...…..

The lab -- the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory (Level 4) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences -- works with and studies the world’s most dangerous pathogens such as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), and Ebola. However, scientists had warned in 2017 that a dangerous virus could escape the lab. According to Nature, some scientists outside China were worried about pathogens escaping, and the addition of a “biological dimension to geopolitical tensions” between China and other nations.


They let it escape their own lab.

The first thing I thought of when I finished reading your post was the book The Stand.

If you haven't read it, read it but read the unedited edition. It's better. I've read both versions since the unedited version didn't come out until over a decade after the book was first released. Which is when I first read it.

I don't think that is going to happen. At least not in the developed world.

A lot of those who have died in China are people who didn't have access to proper medical care.

The world death toll is over 1 thousand now. With many thousands more either fighting the virus or have beaten the virus. It's not an automatic death sentence to anyone who is healthy and lives in a developed nation and has access to medical care.

I agree, those nations that have facilities that work with deadly viruses need to be properly regulated. In fact. Heavily regulated. When it comes to biological agents that can cause wide spread death and destruction, I don't believe there is ever too much security and regulation.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The first case appears in Washington State. Trump will be golfing again soon, no doubt.

CDC expected to announce first US case of Wuhan coronavirus - CNN

Should more cases appear, let's see if the right absolutely loses their tiny minds again like they did over Ebola or if they don't care about diseases anymore.

The only reason why they went nuts over ebola was because Obama was president. They could use that disease as a weapon against Obama.

Meanwhile innocent people were harmed. People forget the nurse who treated people with ebola in Africa. She came back to America but the far right radical extremists threw fits about it saying she was going to kill us all. That she and Obama had a plot to kill Americans with the disease. While the innocent nurse's life was turned upside down, including receiving death threats.

The same far right radical extremists will do the exact opposite now because trump is president.

Obama tried everything possible to give Ebola a fighting chance to find a suitable American host: rat, squirrel, bat, anything. He let infected people roam around the country

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Wuhan Coronavirus: China was warned in 2017 that a deadly virus could escape its level 4 safety lab in Wuhan


As the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak escalates, the only lab in China which is equipped to study and deal with such deadly and emerging infectious diseases is located in Wuhan -- the city where the virus first appeared.


Yeah, just WHAT are they not telling??

Possibly something like the virus MAY change patriotic, sane conservatives into insane, brain dead liberals? THAT would be horrific!

I was thinking more like this...…..

The lab -- the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory (Level 4) of the Chinese Academy of Sciences -- works with and studies the world’s most dangerous pathogens such as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), and Ebola. However, scientists had warned in 2017 that a dangerous virus could escape the lab. According to Nature, some scientists outside China were worried about pathogens escaping, and the addition of a “biological dimension to geopolitical tensions” between China and other nations.


They let it escape their own lab.

The first thing I thought of when I finished reading your post was the book The Stand.

If you haven't read it, read it but read the unedited edition. It's better. I've read both versions since the unedited version didn't come out until over a decade after the book was first released. Which is when I first read it.

I don't think that is going to happen. At least not in the developed world.

A lot of those who have died in China are people who didn't have access to proper medical care.

The world death toll is over 1 thousand now. With many thousands more either fighting the virus or have beaten the virus. It's not an automatic death sentence to anyone who is healthy and lives in a developed nation and has access to medical care.

I agree, those nations that have facilities that work with deadly viruses need to be properly regulated. In fact. Heavily regulated. When it comes to biological agents that can cause wide spread death and destruction, I don't believe there is ever too much security and regulation.

a book is fictional and this is reality.


China has or soon will be adopting a universal healthcare system, but even so, those in cities can still get free care while those outside cities may not and Wuhan is a city, so the first people to show up for care should have been quarantined especially with the lab in town until they had better answers. IF they had done so, this virus wouldn't be as epidemic as it is.

China to Introduce Universal Health Care

People who live in cities who are in need of health care can at least nominally present themselves to a hospital and receive care at no charge.

the care they do receive may not be of quality under more normal circumstances, but showing up with an 'unknown or mysterious' virus should have prompted immediate action

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The point was......when the first guy showed up at the hospital with symptoms of a 'mysterious virus'.....it should have been their first clue to quarantine him until they figured it out.

Do you REALLY think that is how anything works? For one, they first have to figure out it is a virus. Second, there is no reason to go into panic mode because someone is ill with an unknown virus. Third, identifying the virus as a coronavirus not only takes time, but is not , itself, reason to quarantine someone. This is the family of viruses that, among other things, cause the common cold. Fourth, much more data is required to know the virulence or effects of a virus.

So, if you show up to a hospital with cold or flu symptoms, you should be immediately quarantined? Of course not.

We can look back and point at some mistakes, maybe, but not quarantining the first person with symptoms is not one of them.