Ethics: Veganism

[Delta4Embassy]

Started to put this in Health, but thinking of the angle this seemed more appropriate.

Had a dream the other day, and while the subject of it has nothing to do with veganism, for whatever reason it led to this train of thought: If we ever encounter intelligent aliens (so we could exchange information,) will our being omnivores negatively effect our standing in their eyes? We'll likely introduce ourselves as the 'dominant lifeform' of this planet...So dominant we enslave lesser lifeforms and use them for food. Shouldn't the dominant lifeform act as stewards of everything else taking care of them? Not enslaving, skinning, and eating them like ogres?

Along with this question, what if the aliens have the means to detect intelligence or sentience we lack and inform us organic foods we didn't think were sentient actually are as with fruits and vegetables? We know they're alive, but we don't consider them intelligent or sentient. What if they were, and we simply lacked the means of determining it?

I tried an ultra-strict vegan diet several years ago. Only made it for about 6 weeks though. Grocery shopping was excruciating reading labels to ensure no dairy or other prohibited things. Though I felt better (other than tremendous gas from all the veggies and fiber,) growing up my father was a butcher for supermarket chain so we always had a variety of meat n seafood so I think I got used to it. And when I finally quit, it was in large part due to missing my baked paprika chicken Kinda thinking about giving it another go though of late.

 

[Mr. H.]

You more likely suffer from vaganism.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

(wonders what a vagan is.)

 

[Two Thumbs]

plants clean eat up CO2, keeping global warming in check.

animals produce methane, a green house gas.



eating more veggies means you are allowing more CO2 into the air. Why do you hate the planet?

 

[Two Thumbs]

(wonders what a vagan is.)

It's a type of meat that comes with it's own sauce.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

plants clean eat up CO2, keeping global warming in check.

animals produce methane, a green house gas.



eating more veggies means you are allowing more CO2 into the air. Why do you hate the planet?

True, but if we added up how ever much methane from human flatuation is produced if everyone was vegan, and subtracted how much is produced by animals raised as livestock, I'd think there'd be a net savings.

 

[PredFan]

You make a common mistake. You assume that any alien being that comes will be more like the Vulcans, or ET, or any other benevolent fictional alien and not like the Klingons, or the ones in Independance Day or Fallen Skies.

IMO, any alien race is less likely to be benevolent simply due to the fact that an aggressive nature leads to more advances than a passive one. It would take aggressiveness to accomplish space travel. If the find we're vegans they may assume we're inferior and passive and therefor no obstruction to collecting of our planet's resources.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

True. Most species which evolve and advance are predators (like us with eyes in front enabling stereoscopic vision making pursuit and aquisition of prey easier.) Thus aliens capable of interstellar travel would likely have evolved from a predatory animal too. A 'plant-eating' peaceable creature is less likely to evolve sufficiently to perfect space travel.

I actually spend rather a lot of time thinking about first contact. I'm not very optimistic. But if the aliens feel they need an excuse to wipe us aside, our treatment of our lesser animals, and indeed our own species might be all the justification they need.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

There are three reasons to go veg-

Ethical: you decide you don't want to contribute to the horrible, truly mind-numbing cruelty inherent to the meat industry. I shake my head at those who say they're "animal lovers" and against cruelty to animals and yet eat meat. And its not like they can pretend they don't know the truth and they are not the cause of that cruelty.

Environmental: No one factor contributes more to global climate change. You could drive gas guzzlers but do less damage than if you're also vegan.

Your own health: We all know the health ramifications of a meat centered diet. For myself, I don't have the familial risks I was born with. My whole family is sick with diabetes, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease and obesity. I'm the oldest surviving sibling and the only one is good health. The only difference is lifestyle - I quit smoking, I'm active and I've vegetarian. They are none of those things.

I've been vegan - that was my healthiest time. I haven't eaten any meat for more than 30 years and can't imagine ever eating it again. The less you eat, the less you want to and as you feel so much better, you just don't want to go back to how you felt when you ate meat.

Dairy is especially bad for us and I definitely avoid it. I can't say I'm vegan because I do eat eggs we get from a farmer who has chickens. If I had to buy them from a grocery store, I wouldn't eat them.

 

[PredFan]

True. Most species which evolve and advance are predators (like us with eyes in front enabling stereoscopic vision making pursuit and aquisition of prey easier.) Thus aliens capable of interstellar travel would likely have evolved from a predatory animal too. A 'plant-eating' peaceable creature is less likely to evolve sufficiently to perfect space travel.

I actually spend rather a lot of time thinking about first contact. I'm not very optimistic. But if the aliens feel they need an excuse to wipe us aside, our treatment of our lesser animals, and indeed our own species might be all the justification they need.

About a decade ago, I read a book called "Rare Earth". It is a well thought out and logically backed book on the Rare Earth Hypothesis. That hypothesis claims that while there may be billions and billions of planets har boring life in the universe, complex life forms are extremely rare and sentient life so rare as to be non existant outside of the earth.

I think that we are the single most advanced life form in the entire universe. Why not? Someone has to be #1.

 

[PredFan]

I love animals, cooked ones.

Im fighting Global climate change by eating animals. Imagine how many more cows, pigs, deer, and chickens there would be if I wasn't eating them!

A high protein diet is more healthy than a vegetarian diet, and vegan diets are the worst for you.

Luddley's stint as a vegan explains what happened to make him so brain dead.

 

[Sunshine]

In ages past the focus on what people put into their mouths centered around getting enough food to put in their mouths, then the focus shifted to putting the right food into their mouths, now the focus is on putting less food into their mouths. Liberals will not find true happiness until everyone (except them of course) are hunter gatherers again!

 

[The Professor]

Let's see if I got this right. If you don't eat animal products, you are a vegetarian which means if you also made a living treating sick animals you would be a veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were 80 years old you would be an octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were a Protestant who rejects the doctrine of the Trinity you would be a Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were a philanthropists who ruled your kids with an iron fist, you would be a humanitarian disciplinarian Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if by sheer chance you wore born in Hungary and your birth was not accomplished vaginally, you would be a humanitarian disciplinarian Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian, born Hungarian by cesarean. Of course, if your spouse worked in a library....

Sorry, the devil made me do it.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

True. Most species which evolve and advance are predators (like us with eyes in front enabling stereoscopic vision making pursuit and aquisition of prey easier.) Thus aliens capable of interstellar travel would likely have evolved from a predatory animal too. A 'plant-eating' peaceable creature is less likely to evolve sufficiently to perfect space travel.

I actually spend rather a lot of time thinking about first contact. I'm not very optimistic. But if the aliens feel they need an excuse to wipe us aside, our treatment of our lesser animals, and indeed our own species might be all the justification they need.

About a decade ago, I read a book called "Rare Earth". It is a well thought out and logically backed book on the Rare Earth Hypothesis. That hypothesis claims that while there may be billions and billions of planets har boring life in the universe, complex life forms are extremely rare and sentient life so rare as to be non existant outside of the earth.

I think that we are the single most advanced life form in the entire universe. Why not? Someone has to be #1.

As we discover more and more exoplanets (currently 3500 or so,) we're beginning to realize planets orbiting stars is the rule and not the exception. Also, planets don't need to orbit stars as per 'rogue planets.' Looking at life here on Earth, where life can exist, it does exist and in millions of forms. Even if just one planet per galaxy evolves intelligent sentient life equal to, or superior to human beings, that's still 200 billion or so such planets in the known universe.

I'm 99.99999...9% certain we're not the most advanced lifeform in the universe. Pleanty of older regions of space and older galaxies out there. Compared to them, ourlittle slice of heaven is young.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Let's see if I got this right. If you don't eat animal products, you are a vegetarian which means if you also made a living treating sick animals you would be a veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were 80 years old you would be an octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were a Protestant who rejects the doctrine of the Trinity you would be a Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if you were a philanthropists who ruled your kids with an iron fist, you would be a humanitarian disciplinarian Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian. And if by sheer chance you wore born in Hungary and your birth was not accomplished vaginally, you would be a humanitarian disciplinarian Unitarian octogenarian veterinarian vegetarian, born Hungarian by cesarean. Of course, if your spouse worked in a library....

Sorry, the devil made me do it.

Reminded me of the frog on the log in a bog... Rather,

""Wait! There's a snail on the tail of the frog on the bump of this log that I found in a hole on the bottom of the sea!" - Professor Farnsworth"

 

[Two Thumbs]

plants clean eat up CO2, keeping global warming in check.

animals produce methane, a green house gas.



eating more veggies means you are allowing more CO2 into the air. Why do you hate the planet?

True, but if we added up how ever much methane from human flatuation is produced if everyone was vegan, and subtracted how much is produced by animals raised as livestock, I'd think there'd be a net savings.

Humans eat veggies and produce methane

So actually, vegetarians are doing quintuple the harm.

I think you need to think about the children and just what kind of world you want to leave behind.


And no, I did not pull "quintuple" out of my ass, I love the planet and wouldn't do that.

 

[Two Thumbs]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

 

[Moonglow]

(wonders what a vagan is.)

It's a type of meat that comes with it's own sauce.

You do know it comes with 4 tires??? That means it's modern meat....

 

[Sunshine]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Do they need a cookbook?

 

[Two Thumbs]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Do they need a cookbook?

Slow cook the long pig with garlic and onions with a good amount of oil and salt on the skin.