FAIL- Electric Car Sales Plunge To 4 Year Lows

[orogenicman]

Yet Obama continues to squeeze the coal miners

-Geaux'
======================================

But low oil prices are supposed to be unequivocally good? On the day when Ford lays off 700 Michigan plant workers in small cars and hybrids manufacturing, The Detroit News reports that, according to Edmunds.com, sales of electric cars and hybrids are at the lowest level since 2011. What is even more worrisome, motorists who leased those first-generation cars, and have decided not to buy them, are turning them in, leaving dealer lots full of low mileage cars at huge discounts to new ones. As Edmunds concludes, while "the government's going to keep pushing it, there is time to pause right now."

Low oil prices have not been unequivocally good for these workers... (as Detroit Free Press reports)

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

The automaker told workers and notified the state of Michigan that it will lay off 700 workers, starting June 22. The decision affects 675 hourly workers and 25 salaried employees who make the Focus, Focus ST, Focus Electric, C-Max hybrid and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid at the Wayne plant.

The first 200 workers will be laid off in June, another 200 at the end of July and the remainder at the end of September.

Electric Car Sales Plunge To 4 Year Lows Zero Hedge

The only question I have from this thread is where is the car that runs on coal?

 

[WinterBorn]

Yet Obama continues to squeeze the coal miners

-Geaux'
======================================

But low oil prices are supposed to be unequivocally good? On the day when Ford lays off 700 Michigan plant workers in small cars and hybrids manufacturing, The Detroit News reports that, according to Edmunds.com, sales of electric cars and hybrids are at the lowest level since 2011. What is even more worrisome, motorists who leased those first-generation cars, and have decided not to buy them, are turning them in, leaving dealer lots full of low mileage cars at huge discounts to new ones. As Edmunds concludes, while "the government's going to keep pushing it, there is time to pause right now."

Low oil prices have not been unequivocally good for these workers... (as Detroit Free Press reports)

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

The automaker told workers and notified the state of Michigan that it will lay off 700 workers, starting June 22. The decision affects 675 hourly workers and 25 salaried employees who make the Focus, Focus ST, Focus Electric, C-Max hybrid and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid at the Wayne plant.

The first 200 workers will be laid off in June, another 200 at the end of July and the remainder at the end of September.

Electric Car Sales Plunge To 4 Year Lows Zero Hedge

The only question I have from this thread is where is the car that runs on coal?

In areas where all the electricity is generated by coal, the Teslas can be said to run on coal. At least as much as the "diesel locomotive" runs on diesel.

 

[orogenicman]

Yet Obama continues to squeeze the coal miners

-Geaux'
======================================

But low oil prices are supposed to be unequivocally good? On the day when Ford lays off 700 Michigan plant workers in small cars and hybrids manufacturing, The Detroit News reports that, according to Edmunds.com, sales of electric cars and hybrids are at the lowest level since 2011. What is even more worrisome, motorists who leased those first-generation cars, and have decided not to buy them, are turning them in, leaving dealer lots full of low mileage cars at huge discounts to new ones. As Edmunds concludes, while "the government's going to keep pushing it, there is time to pause right now."

Low oil prices have not been unequivocally good for these workers... (as Detroit Free Press reports)

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

The automaker told workers and notified the state of Michigan that it will lay off 700 workers, starting June 22. The decision affects 675 hourly workers and 25 salaried employees who make the Focus, Focus ST, Focus Electric, C-Max hybrid and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid at the Wayne plant.

The first 200 workers will be laid off in June, another 200 at the end of July and the remainder at the end of September.

Electric Car Sales Plunge To 4 Year Lows Zero Hedge

The only question I have from this thread is where is the car that runs on coal?

In areas where all the electricity is generated by coal, the Teslas can be said to run on coal. At least as much as the "diesel locomotive" runs on diesel.

Not for long. Stay tuned.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yet Obama continues to squeeze the coal miners

-Geaux'
======================================

But low oil prices are supposed to be unequivocally good? On the day when Ford lays off 700 Michigan plant workers in small cars and hybrids manufacturing, The Detroit News reports that, according to Edmunds.com, sales of electric cars and hybrids are at the lowest level since 2011. What is even more worrisome, motorists who leased those first-generation cars, and have decided not to buy them, are turning them in, leaving dealer lots full of low mileage cars at huge discounts to new ones. As Edmunds concludes, while "the government's going to keep pushing it, there is time to pause right now."

Low oil prices have not been unequivocally good for these workers... (as Detroit Free Press reports)

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

The automaker told workers and notified the state of Michigan that it will lay off 700 workers, starting June 22. The decision affects 675 hourly workers and 25 salaried employees who make the Focus, Focus ST, Focus Electric, C-Max hybrid and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid at the Wayne plant.

The first 200 workers will be laid off in June, another 200 at the end of July and the remainder at the end of September.

Electric Car Sales Plunge To 4 Year Lows Zero Hedge

The only question I have from this thread is where is the car that runs on coal?

In areas where all the electricity is generated by coal, the Teslas can be said to run on coal. At least as much as the "diesel locomotive" runs on diesel.

Not for long. Stay tuned.

Yeah, coal is dying out.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I don't doubt that Tesla is a good car, but Consumer Reports is biased. That's what we're discussing. Try to keep up. They have a history of bias. How do you explain when they say one car has "acceptable" gas mileage, when another has "good" mileage, and both get the same mileage?

Did you not read the other website? It was current, up to date, and mentioned late model vehicles.

[Regarding a comparison of the Acura TSXand Volvo S40], seeing them trash a car from a company I don't like confirmed their bias more than seeing them trash a car from a company I dolike (where I might be biased myself). For example, in a one page review, they said five times that the Volvo had unacceptably tight rear legroom. This despite the fact that in the objective measurements published on the next page, the Volvo had as much legroom as any other car in the comparo (there were four) and more than most..They also call the Acura's gas mileage "good," while they call the Volvo's "acceptable." That's interesting, since they get the exact same mileage and the Volvo gets it on regular gas rather than premium like the Acura. They also ding the Volvo a couple of times for sluggish acceleration, despite the fact that it's only two-tenths slower to 60 than the Acura (which was "good" and "peppy"). Two-tenths falls well within the range of measurement error.

Yes, Consumer Reports is biased. All I did in posting an old study is post that they have a history of it.

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't doubt that Tesla is a good car, but Consumer Reports is biased. That's what we're discussing. Try to keep up. They have a history of bias. How do you explain when they say one car has "acceptable" gas mileage, when another has "good" mileage, and both get the same mileage?

Did you not read the other website? It was current, up to date, and mentioned late model vehicles.

[Regarding a comparison of the Acura TSXand Volvo S40], seeing them trash a car from a company I don't like confirmed their bias more than seeing them trash a car from a company I dolike (where I might be biased myself). For example, in a one page review, they said five times that the Volvo had unacceptably tight rear legroom. This despite the fact that in the objective measurements published on the next page, the Volvo had as much legroom as any other car in the comparo (there were four) and more than most..They also call the Acura's gas mileage "good," while they call the Volvo's "acceptable." That's interesting, since they get the exact same mileage and the Volvo gets it on regular gas rather than premium like the Acura. They also ding the Volvo a couple of times for sluggish acceleration, despite the fact that it's only two-tenths slower to 60 than the Acura (which was "good" and "peppy"). Two-tenths falls well within the range of measurement error.

Yes, Consumer Reports is biased. All I did in posting an old study is post that they have a history of it.

We were also discussing your claim that EVs are a fad.

 

[airplanemechanic]

They are a fad. You can have a nice EV, but when its 1/10th of 1% of the vehicles on the road after 15 years, it's not catching on. And to get it to 1/10th of 1%, the gov't had to subsidize the purchase with huge tax breaks.

I don't want a school bus, but if you make it make it far cheaper than a comparable large SUV, I might find a reason to get one. Doesn't mean its the best choice but when you artificially drop the prices to make people want to buy them then you're also artificially increasing demand.

 

[WinterBorn]

They are a fad. You can have a nice EV, but when its 1/10th of 1% of the vehicles on the road after 15 years, it's not catching on. And to get it to 1/10th of 1%, the gov't had to subsidize the purchase with huge tax breaks.

I don't want a school bus, but if you make it make it far cheaper than a comparable large SUV, I might find a reason to get one. Doesn't mean its the best choice but when you artificially drop the prices to make people want to buy them then you're also artificially increasing demand.

They borrowed over $400 million to fund a company building EVs from the ground up, not just a modified ICE vehicle. And they paid the loan back 9 years early, and are on their way to releasing their 3rd model. The stock, while dipping a bit recently, is still solid.

The tax incentives are hardly enough to make the price of the vehicles significantly less. People buy Teslas because they want a Tesla. Not because they can get up to a $7,500 tax rebate. That would be like claiming Ford paid customers to buy a truck, when they offer a $1,500 rebate on a $30k vehicle.

 

[airplanemechanic]

They paid the loan back because they got an interest rate about 20% the market interest rate. The gov't lost their ass on that deal.

And yes it does. If you offer a 7500 dollar tax incentive you better damn well believe it makes someone look much harder at that vehicle than they normally would.

7500 on a 75000 dollar car? That's 10%. I surely didn't get offered a 2000 rebate on my 20000 dollar car. Had I, I probably wouldn't have even shopped around with that kind of savings.

 

[WinterBorn]

They paid the loan back because they got an interest rate about 20% the market interest rate. The gov't lost their ass on that deal.

And yes it does. If you offer a 7500 dollar tax incentive you better damn well believe it makes someone look much harder at that vehicle than they normally would.

On a new vehicle in that prices range, you should be able to haggle more than $7500 off the price. And the $7500 is the upper limit. You are not guaranteed to get that full amount.

If I am looking at a new luxury car, and one costs $97,500, and the other costs $105,000, I am not basing my decision solely on price. And they are not giving you anyone's money. They are letting you keep a bit more of your own.

 

[airplanemechanic]

It doesn't matter. Bottom line is the sale price is 7500 cheaper for an EV because of the gov't trying to sweeten the pot because they had so much money invested in the EV industry.

Electric vehicles don't cost that much. The prius starts around 20,000k.

Gov't corruption at its best.

And yes, you are guaranteed the amount based on the size of the battery in the car. The Tesla got 7500 back. Period. You obviously need to do more research on this.

 

[WinterBorn]

It doesn't matter. Bottom line is the sale price is 7500 cheaper for an EV because of the gov't trying to sweeten the pot because they had so much money invested in the EV industry.

Electric vehicles don't cost that much. The prius starts around 20,000k.

Gov't corruption at its best.

And yes, you are guaranteed the amount based on the size of the battery in the car. The Tesla got 7500 back. Period. You obviously need to do more research on this.

I am not worried about the $7500 tax incentive. That is not what makes a Tesla sell.

It sells because it is a top quality luxury car that performs like a sports car and is one of the safest cars on the road.

 

[airplanemechanic]

With a range of 240 miles. Half of what my car can go. And I paid 17K for mine brand new. And my car has an identical top speed of 121mph. Had I paid 2.5K more I could have had a 143mph top speed.

 

[WinterBorn]

With a range of 240 miles. Half of what my car go. And I paid 17K for mine brand new. And my car has an identical top speed of 121mph. Had I paid 2.5K more I could have had a 143mph top speed.

And yours is a luxury car? It will seat 5 full sized adults? And is way cheaper to operate? I'm guessing the whole 0-60 in 3.2 seconds is not happening with yours.

Oh, and the 70D and the P85 both have top speeds of 140. The P85D has a top speed of 155. Not sure why top speed is an issue. I have been driving for almost 40 years and could count on one hand the number of times I have exceeded 110mph.

 

[airplanemechanic]

No but it'll do 0-60 faster 300 miles down the road than the now discharged Tesla. And no, my car is by far cheaper to operate per mile than this monstrosity.

For 75K I can get a 'Vette that will smoke this thing.

 

[WinterBorn]

With a range of 240 miles. Half of what my car can go. And I paid 17K for mine brand new. And my car has an identical top speed of 121mph. Had I paid 2.5K more I could have had a 143mph top speed.

Other than vacations, how often do you think most people drive more than 200 miles in a single day?

 

[WinterBorn]

No but it'll do 0-60 faster 300 miles down the road than the now discharged Tesla. And no, my car is by far cheaper to operate per mile than this monstrosity.

For 75K I can get a 'Vette that will smoke this thing.

Which Mercedes will smoke this thing? And in what way will it smoke it?

My electricity rates (off peak) are $0.09 per kWhr. Which means a full charge costs about $11.

A Tesla has no oil changes, no coolant changes or testing, no transmission fluid changes ect ect ect. Tires and wiper blades are your items to be maintained.

If your car gets 40 mpg, and gas is $2 a gal, your operating costs for gasoline alone are around $0.05 per mile. At $0.10 per kWhr, the Tesla, figuring a 200 mile range on a full charge, costs about $0.04 per miles.

 

[WinterBorn]

No but it'll do 0-60 faster 300 miles down the road than the now discharged Tesla. And no, my car is by far cheaper to operate per mile than this monstrosity.

For 75K I can get a 'Vette that will smoke this thing.

Changed it from a Mercedes to a Vette? First of all, the Vette will be guzzling gas and only seat 2 people in half the comfort of the Tesla.

The 2015 Corvette ZO6 has a 0-60 time of 3.1 seconds, and the Corvette ZO7 does it in 3.0. So a dedicated sports car, getting lousy gas mileage and only seating 2 people, can beat the 4 door, 5 passenger, luxury car by a whole 0.2 seconds???

Oh, and if the Vette driver smokes the tires at all he will lose to the Tesla.

 

[WinterBorn]

No but it'll do 0-60 faster 300 miles down the road than the now discharged Tesla. And no, my car is by far cheaper to operate per mile than this monstrosity.

For 75K I can get a 'Vette that will smoke this thing.

Oh, and 300 miles down the road I will have stopped and recharged for free, and then be able to do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.

 

[WinterBorn]

No but it'll do 0-60 faster 300 miles down the road than the now discharged Tesla. And no, my car is by far cheaper to operate per mile than this monstrosity.

For 75K I can get a 'Vette that will smoke this thing.

Here are other arguments you could make.

"My Jeep will climb hills and go thru mud better than the Tesla!"

"My pickup truck will haul a lot more stuff than any Tesla!"

"I bought a used Honda Accord for $1,200. When Teslas are $1,200 I will buy one!"